New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

SlickRic

saw the highlights.

as great as Brady is, that NE offensive line was absolutely astonishing. to be able to give Brady that much time, and take that much pressure off him was astounding.

it's like the team finds the regular season too mundane and decide to be the real deal come post-season.

Incredible.

spiderdan

Wow what a bat**** crazy game. Hogan's catch was insane! Will probably fade into memory with the Brady, Gronk and Edelman clutch plays but Hogan's was the game winner IMO! Trey Flowers is a beast, pay the man!!

j8wk2feszrnpao

spiderdan wrote: »

Trey Flowers is a beast, pay the man!!

I reckon he'll be gone (hopefully with a ring). He may want top money, but he won't get that in NE. Would like to keep him, and pair him with similar talent, but they'll probably move on.

PhuckHugh

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I reckon he'll be gone (hopefully with a ring). He may want top money, but he won't get that in NE. Would like to keep him, and pair him with similar talent, but they'll probably move on.

Bill has a lot of picks at the draft this year --- I'd love if he stayed but as you say, he wont get $$$ at NE.

AbusesToilets

Brady's accuracy on that last drive was something else, ball reaching Edelman microseconds before the defender could get there. His touch on the td for Dorsett was lovely too.

So many amazing performances. Hogan with a career highlight reel catch, and the one which was (wrongly imo) ruled incomplete.

White with some disgusting clutch catches, especially the one on 3rd where it looked like he reached backwards around the defender. He was also really strong between the tackles.

The run blocking was brutal. Develin's hit for Michel's 2nd was Savage, pancaked his man. Gronk was immense too.

My heart can't take Pats playoff games

Son Of A Vidic

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The run blocking was brutal. Develin's hit for Michel's 2nd was Savage, pancaked his man. Gronk was immense too.

Other teams don't even bother with his position anymore, it's gone out of fashion.


Be we still value the Full Back position, we have James Develin and he is a God.

Shedite27

irishrover99 wrote: »

No issues with any of the calls other than the face mask call on Brady which was a bit bogus but that is also down to the new rules.
Edelman did not touch the ball on the punt return and the Pats had a bogus call against them for pass interference near the end so they evened themselves out i think.

I'm glad in hindsight that the Pats turned the ball over straight after the Edelman "non-fumble". I'm sure there'd have been a lot written about it if we scored on every drive after that to win it.

lawred2

Since when did the Patriots run the ball so freely and creatively..

That game was great drama

Foxtrol

lawred2 wrote: »

Since when did the Patriots run the ball so freely and creatively..

That game was great drama

Patriots are nearly always one of the top teams in running the ball. They just do it by committee so don't have a star name that gets the media attention. It was clear from picking up an RB in the first round of the draft that it was going to an important focus again.

Chiefs also have one of the worst run defenses in the league which helped a bit last night.

ELM327

It was fitting that, while Brady had a great game, the game was won on the ground behind a block by Develin and Gronk.


Next stop.. Atlanta!

ELM327

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I don't even know what to say anymore about Tom Brady, what can you say? There are no words left in the dictionary. A lot of personnel moves before the season started, left me not expecting much from our offense this season. Yet were going to another Superbowl. The way things are going, we probably won't need to draft Brady's heir for another 4-5 years.

If we can keep the OL at the level they were at in the last game, Brady isn't even being touched let alone sacked or knocked down. He's playing pitch and catch and there's no reason he can't do that till 45!

eagle eye

It'll be interesting to see how we deal with Cooks.
Of course the first thing we need to do is shut down the run on them. If we do that then it's all in Goff's hands.

BaronVon

These Patriots are scheduled to become free agents on March 13

ERFA - Cody Hollister
RFA - Jonathan Jones

UFAs

Gostkowski
Hogan
Jason McCourty
Patterson
Malcom Brown
Flowers
Shelton
Ryan Allen
Trent Brown
Waddle
Dorsett
Simon
Ulrick John
McClellan
Humber
Schewnke
Rowe
Hill

I presume Gost and Trent Brown would be priorities. I'm sure Flowers would be welcomed back, but history would suggest otherwise!

ELM327

Pretty much all of those are locks to be gone. I don't know of any outstanding kickers coming up in the draft or if there would even be appetite to replace Gostkowski so I assume he'll be back. We're probably going to see one of Brown and Flowers gone, and probably the vast majority of the rest will be gone too.

me89

Everyone is complaining and saying it was a terrible game but I really enjoyed it #6

Loughc

I really enjoyed the game, there was some great defensive plays and it keep the excitement right up to the end as the game could have swung either way.

ELM327

What a great defensive struggle. Paying for it now as I didnt book the day off work like normal but i'm glad I stayed up to watch it.

Our defense played well above the sum of their individual talents, very few big names but get the job done against a new era QB and coach.

Come on Tom, lets make it 10 bowl appearances before retiring at least!!

AbusesToilets

No chance we can afford to keep Flowers next year, he's been immense this season.

How was Develin not 1st team All Pro? The foundation of our running game, best FB in the game imo.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Anyone remember when the Pats were good anymore in 2014 (but went on to play in 4 of the next 5 SB's, winning 3)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFuffcVDKKg

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

No chance we can afford to keep Flowers next year, he's been immense this season.

There are a lot of top DE's free to move this year and tackles too. I think there is a good chance that we get to hang on to both Flowers and Brown.

AbusesToilets wrote:

How was Develin not 1st team All Pro? The foundation of our running game, best FB in the game imo.

Develin didn't get many mentions last night and he was immense. He cleared holes and blocked exceptionally well last night. It's nothing new either, an all rounder, he can catch the ball too. Absolutely should have been all-pro this season and last season too. Best full back in the league and there is nobody even close to him.

AbusesToilets

eagle eye wrote: »

There are a lot of top DE's free to move this year and tackles too. I think there is a good chance that we get to hang on to both Flowers and Brown.


Develin didn't get many mentions last night and he was immense. He cleared holes and blocked exceptionally well last night. It's nothing new either, an all rounder, he can catch the ball too. Absolutely should have been all-pro this season and last season too. Best full back in the league and there is nobody even close to him.

Genuinely baffling to me. His blocks against the Chiefs were savage, loved the one for Michel's 2nd td. Absolutely pancaked his man.

ELM327

The problem is the death of the fullback position across the league. Most teams don't even have a fullback on the roster and wouldn't have a full back/ h back on the field for the vast majority of their snaps.

D9Male

You're not wrong Elm, but would than not make him more likely to be a 1st team All-Pro?

eagle eye

D9Male wrote:

You're not wrong Elm, but would than not make him more likely to be a 1st team All-Pro?

There used to be a full back slot on it but they changed it to flex a coupe if years ago.

D9Male

Okay, silly me.

I think it is hard to justify him being AP if there is no dedicated FB slot. I wouldn't have him within an asses roar of Elliot, Gurley or Barkley.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

What a great defensive struggle. Paying for it now as I didnt book the day off work like normal but i'm glad I stayed up to watch it.

Our defense played well above the sum of their individual talents, very few big names but get the job done against a new era QB and coach.

Come on Tom, lets make it 10 bowl appearances before retiring at least!!

Beat the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game. Go on to win SB LIV. 7 for NE, 7 for Brady, 9 for Belichick. Fetch 'em the pipe & slippers. (in that order).

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Absolutely should have been all-pro this season and last season too. Best full back in the league and there is nobody even close to him.

Kyle Juszczyk is a better FB. In 2018 he had 5 times the receiving yards and 4 times the rushing yards, while still doing the bread and butter of the FB position.

ELM327

Foxtrol wrote: »

Kyle Juszczyk is a better FB. In 2018 he had 5 times the receiving yards and 4 times the rushing yards, while still doing the bread and butter of the FB position.

Fullback is not really about receiving or rushing yards though. The main criteria for a fullback should be blocking in both the pass and run game.


Perhaps it's my pats fan bias but it's hard to put anyone even in the same league as Develin at the position right now. He's just pancaking everyone!

Foxtrol

ELM327 wrote: »

Fullback is not really about receiving or rushing yards though. The main criteria for a fullback should be blocking in both the pass and run game.

Perhaps it's my pats fan bias but it's hard to put anyone even in the same league as Develin at the position right now. He's just pancaking everyone!

That’s like saying you shouldn’t include Cam Newtons running ability in assessing him because your belief is that the main criteria for a QB is throwing or similarly excluding the catching ability of Bell when ranking him as a RB.

More than fan bias, I’d wager you haven’t watched much of Juszczyk in the last 2 years. He can block in both pass and run but also offers so much more on top of that.

PhuckHugh

Agreed -Develin is by far the greatest fullback of all time.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

Kyle Juszczyk is a better FB. In 2018 he had 5 times the receiving yards and 4 times the rushing yards, while still doing the bread and butter of the FB position.

Juszcyk gets more use as a rusher and receiver in a bad team. When he was with the Ravens he was used for a time as a third down back, a position he also gets used in as a 49er quite frequently.



He isn't in the same hemisphere as Develin as a complete full back.

ELM327

Foxtrol wrote: »

That’s like saying you shouldn’t include Cam Newtons running ability in assessing him because your belief is that the main criteria for a QB is throwing or similarly excluding the catching ability of Bell when ranking him as a RB.

More than fan bias, I’d wager you haven’t watched much of Juszczyk in the last 2 years. He can block in both pass and run but also offers so much more on top of that.

I saw a lot of him with the Ravens, not so much since his move to the bay area admittedly. He's not in Develin's league. He's a good fullback and arguably one of the best but not on the same tier as develin.


Go back and look at all the NE rushing attempts late this year and you'll find that the vast majority of successful rushing plays are behind a develin (and/or gronk) block.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Juszcyk gets more use as a rusher and receiver in a bad team. When he was with the Ravens he was used for a time as a third down back, a position he also gets used in as a 49er quite frequently.

He isn't in the same hemisphere as Develin as a complete full back.

A complete full back that basically only blocks?

That sounds much more like one dimensional to me.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

A complete full back that basically only blocks?

That sounds much more like one dimensional to me.

He had 61 receiving yards, most of those catches for first downs. He had 8 rushing yards from 6 attempts which resulted in 4 touchdowns this past regular season. His run blocking is far better than any other back in the league and his pass blocking is quite good too.

ELM327

It's the run blocking and short yardage runs that does it for me.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

He had 61 receiving yards, most of those catches for first downs. He had 8 rushing yards from 6 attempts which resulted in 4 touchdowns this past regular season. His run blocking is far better than any other back in the league and his pass blocking is quite good too.

And those stats make him look extremely one dimensional when you compare them to Juice, who had 324 yards from 30 receptions and 30 yards from 8 rush attempts.

Foxtrol

ELM327 wrote: »

I saw a lot of him with the Ravens, not so much since his move to the bay area admittedly. He's not in Develin's league. He's a good fullback and arguably one of the best but not on the same tier as develin.

Go back and look at all the NE rushing attempts late this year and you'll find that the vast majority of successful rushing plays are behind a develin (and/or gronk) block.

NE and the 49ers have very different blocking and running schemes and generally use their full backs in very different ways.

I think Juice has the skillset to be successful doing what the Patriots require much more than Develin would have success doing what the 49ers want from the position.

It is only day 1 of the off season so I don’t have much interest in going further down the rabbit hole of a full back ranking discussion.

I think you’re flat out wrong saying there’s any tier/hemisphere between them but we can agree to disagree.

PhuckHugh2

Id take Juszczyk over Develin all day every day. Granted both quality players but Juszczyk edges it for me. To say that Develin is on a different hemisphere is flat out wrong.

If i could choose one over the other i would be taking Juszczyk but i could see why people prefer Develin. Both great players in fairness.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

And those stats make him look extremely one dimensional when you compare them to Juice, who had 324 yards from 30 receptions and 30 yards from 8 rush attempts.

He played running back for the 49ers, third down back as well. He does very little full back work but is called a full back. I'm sure Develin could do what he does if he had the opportunity but the Patriots don't need him to do that stuff.

As far as full back work is concerned there is no comparison between the two, Develin is miles ahead.

PhuckHugh2

eagle eye wrote: »

He played running back for the 49ers, third down back as well. He does very little full back work but is called a full back. I'm sure Develin could do what he does if he had the opportunity but the Patriots don't need him to do that stuff.

As far as full back work is concerned there is no comparison between the two, Develin is miles ahead.

That's fine that is your opinion. I'd be of a different opinion so we can agree to disagree.

eagle eye

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

That's fine that is your opinion. I'd be of a different opinion so we can agree to disagree.

Well that's fine but you are wrong.

PhuckHugh2

eagle eye wrote: »

Well that's fine but you are wrong.

Again your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree on that point too

PhuckHugh

I'd say Gronk is done - Sad, but a great way for him to go out. Bill is charged with finding his replacement but he has to get in a QB also --- Tom can do what he did this year for another year or two but the end is nigh.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

What a season, when you stand back and look what the Patriots did it really is incredible.
Losing Nate Solder, Butler, Amendola and Dion Lewis in FA, trading away Cooks, losing our 1st rounder Wynn to injury in pre-season, along with Edelman's suspension, Gronk's rapid receiving-game decay and then losing Josh Gordon. We also lost Matty P to the Lions and, as usual, having a tough schedule and drafting late. To cap that off every other Superbowl contending team brought in reinforcements, and some significantly so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this was Bill and Tom's biggest achievement. You could argue the 16-0 season and probably any of the first 3 Superbowls, but this for me tops them all. A 41 year old QB and 66 year old HC, 3rd Superbowl in a row and 6th ring, with what was their weakest Superbowl roster yet. When you put everything into perspective it's mind-blowing. The level of success is absolutely phenomenal.


What do we think will be the major focuses of the off-season? We still have an ageing squad outside of the the O-line, but I think with a few acquisitions there's no reason why can't repeat the success.
WR: We definitely need another WR. Tom essentially had 2 receiving targets outside of his RBs. Forget Josh Gordon, even if he returns he clearly can't be relied upon. We need someone to stretch the field and take the pressure off Edelman in the middle.
TE: I really hope Gronk returns for 1 last go. If he goes we'll have a gaping hole there that'll need to be immediately addressed.
LB: How BB got that group to perform at the level they did for the post-season is beyond me. Even still, they were arguably our weakest corps during the regular season. I think we need to dedicate a high draft pick to LB or else pick up a decent FA. Knowing BB, it'll be the latter.
DL: Resigning Flowers should be a priority, although I don't think we'll match what he'll get in FA. Apparently there's a good draft class coming through, and we do need at least 1 D-lineman, so this is where our 1st round pick will probably go.
RB and FB: We're fine here.
O-Line: We're fine here.
DBs: We're fine here, although they're definitely ageing. JC Jackson looks a stud, the 2 McCourtys were brilliant and we had the best CB in the league this season in Gilly.
QB: No need to draft a QB yet if Tom legitimately plans to keep going for another 3 seasons.
K and P: P is fine, but Gost doesn't fill me with confidence these days. Missed a XP in Superbowls vs the Falcons and Eagles, missed a crucial XP vs the Broncos in Champo game, and missed what could've been a crucial FG against the Rams. He'll probably be kept on, but I wouldn't be upset if he was let go. Too many big misses.

ELM327

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

What a season, when you stand back and look what the Patriots did it really is incredible.
Losing Nate Solder, Butler, Amendola and Dion Lewis in FA, trading away Cooks, losing our 1st rounder Wynn to injury in pre-season, along with Edelman's suspension, Gronk's rapid receiving-game decay and then losing Josh Gordon. We also lost Matty P to the Lions and, as usual, having a tough schedule and drafting late. To cap that off every other Superbowl contending team brought in reinforcements, and some significantly so.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this was Bill and Tom's biggest achievement. You could argue the 16-0 season and probably any of the first 3 Superbowls, but this for me tops them all. A 41 year old QB and 66 year old HC, 3rd Superbowl in a row and 6th ring, with what was their weakest Superbowl roster yet. When you put everything into perspective it's mind-blowing. The level of success is absolutely phenomenal.


What do we think will be the major focuses of the off-season? We still have an ageing squad outside of the the O-line, but I think with a few acquisitions there's no reason why can't repeat the success.
WR: We definitely need another WR. Tom essentially had 2 receiving targets outside of his RBs. Forget Josh Gordon, even if he returns he clearly can't be relied upon. We need someone to stretch the field and take the pressure off Edelman in the middle.
TE: I really hope Gronk returns for 1 last go. If he goes we'll have a gaping hole there that'll need to be immediately addressed.
LB: How BB got that group to perform at the level they did for the post-season is beyond me. Even still, they were arguably our weakest corps during the regular season. I think we need to dedicate a high draft pick to LB or else pick up a decent FA. Knowing BB, it'll be the latter.
DL: Resigning Flowers should be a priority, although I don't think we'll match what he'll get in FA. Apparently there's a good draft class coming through, and we do need at least 1 D-lineman, so this is where our 1st round pick will probably go.
RB and FB: We're fine here.
O-Line: We're fine here.
DBs: We're fine here, although they're definitely ageing. JC Jackson looks a stud, the 2 McCourtys were brilliant and we had the best CB in the league this season in Gilly.
QB: No need to draft a QB yet if Tom legitimately plans to keep going for another 3 seasons.
K and P: P is fine, but Gost doesn't fill me with confidence these days. Missed a XP in Superbowls vs the Falcons and Eagles, missed a crucial XP vs the Broncos in Champo game, and missed what could've been a crucial FG against the Rams. He'll probably be kept on, but I wouldn't be upset if he was let go. Too many big misses.

Agreed, this is probably the biggest "achievement" superbowl win when you look at the quality of some of the team on paper.


Regarding where we go from here, unless there's an outstanding development prospect in the late first round (a la Aaron Rodgers) I think we should be spending most of the picks on defense. Chung and Gilmore had a great year and are indispensible (well, as close as any non Brady NE player gets to that mark)


Drafting a QB and the timeline should be based on how long Brady will stay around. If it's one more year then draft one now, but other than that I would hold off.


Gronk is done. Unfortunately. We need a replacement , and for me that will be two players. A WR with catch in traffic ability, and a good blocking TE.


Are any of our RBs FA this year? If we can hold onto that corps, hold the O line and D line together with improvements in the secondary, address the WR+Gronk issue , there's no reason we can't have another go at a ring next year.

bruschi

That was an unbelievable win. Tell me before the game we'd only score 13 and I'd cry my eyes out. I didnt think we'd put on a run like we did in the post season. The regular season form showed no sign of a defence that could shut out like they did. The offence didnt show a running game that would dominate. Fair play to Eagle Eye, he called it that he felt something special in this side. I would never have lost faith and always felt this team could do it, been there and know what to do so whilst I didnt expect it, I'm not surprised they did it.

It really was a defensive win. No one will dispute that. Brady was very average, but when needed, he made the big play drive to get the winning TD. I cold go through all the defence and what they did to get that win. Edelman too deserves immense credit. Really is a clutch player and is there when it matters.

6 rings for Brady. Unreal.

el Fenomeno

The Patriots will have a massive (figuratively and literally) hole in their O-line if Brown decides to test Free Agency which he likely will. He's been on a 7th Round rookie contract the past 4 years and will want to get paid. Proved himself to be an excellent LT this season, so someone will give him upper-tier money.

I wouldn't be comfortable with LaAdrian Waddle taking the reigns - he's a free agent himself this year. And there's no guarantee Isaiah Wynn will come back strong from his injury and jump into a tackle position either.

spiderdan

Sensational achievement it has to be the best when you take everything into consideration and talent level on the roster. One area that I'm very interested in is the DC position moving forward, Brian Flores has been unbelievable as a play caller especially in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious Bill still dictates the game plan and much of what happens in game but Flores still calls the plays i.e Gilmore's interception was a outside blitz called by Flores. I'm not questioning Bills fingerprints all over this win but can't help think what would the outcome have been if Patricia there last years Super Bowl was a **** show on D. Are we all giving Bill too much credit for the win and not enough to Flores. I guess we'll never know but its some turnaround on D from the past couple of super bowl appearances. Also Hightower, Van Noy, Gilmore were phenomenal, I think having them and many others healthy was the real difference this year.

ELM327

spiderdan wrote: »

Sensational achievement it has to be the best when you take everything into consideration and talent level on the roster. One area that I'm very interested in is the DC position moving forward, Brian Flores has been unbelievable as a play caller especially in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious Bill still dictates the game plan and much of what happens in game but Flores still calls the plays i.e Gilmore's interception was a outside blitz called by Flores. I'm not questioning Bills fingerprints all over this win but can't help think what would the outcome have been if Patricia there last years Super Bowl was a **** show on D. Are we all giving Bill too much credit for the win and not enough to Flores. I guess we'll never know but its some turnaround on D from the past couple of super bowl appearances. Also Hightower, Van Noy, Gilmore were phenomenal, I think having them and many others healthy was the real difference this year.

I thought Patricia was a great defensive coach, but much better on the front 7. Our secondary was shockingly bad at times under him and I agree there has been a marked improvement especially at crunch time in the postseason. Not surprised he's getting a HC job (flores).

Masked Man

Kind of ironic that we were following Patricia's blueprint for the Rams.