New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

ScrubsfanChris

It's the hope that kills you

The same Bills that couldn't score a single TD against the Jets

paulie21

Gut wrenching loss looked like we were going to sneak a win. Cam played his part in getting us to that point was a good defensive play by them

ScrubsfanChris

Who ever called for that onside kick needs his own kick up the arse

BKWDR

Why kick a field goal on 3rd at end of 1st half

eagle eye

el Fenomeno wrote:

No he wasnt. He was drafted.

Yeah, I keep forgettiing he was for some reason. I remember when he first came in at TC and nobody knew anything about him. So I always thought of him as an udfa.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

That should be Cam's last snap for a couple of weeks at least. .

I mean, at least trade Gilmore before a declaration of tanking. Studham is not the answer.

eagle eye

Christy42 wrote:

I mean, at least trade Gilmore before a declaration of tanking. Studham is not the answer.

I don't think Stidham is th answer either but I'd have said the same thing about Tom Brady when he was the backup many years ago.
You don't know what you have until you give a player the starting role and time with the team as the starter.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think Stidham is th answer either but I'd have said the same thing about Tom Brady when he was the backup many years ago.
You don't know what you have until you give a player the starting role and time with the team as the starter.

I mean you can be pretty sure that I am not the answer without me seeing the field.

Bill sees him in training. Brady went from a flawed but intriguing answer that they bent backwards to keep him on the roster year 1 with 4 QBs who quickly jumped up to 2nd without really seeing the field. He was showing signs of learning pretty quickly already. Not that I would have called it but there was something there to show he could do it.

Studham was beat out by Hoyer in training and this isn't a team to drop a young qb into for the hope.

Outside of the injured eagles you likely have the worst set of receivers in the league. At least the Jets have Crowder. Cam can make it work because he is a weapon. Brady struggled to get anything going last year with the offense getting bailed out by the defense a lot. If Stidham is to get there then he obviously has a lot to learn. This is not the offense to learn with.

BizzyC

I don't think we should bench Cam unless we plan on entering full tank mode.
Stidham clearly doesn't have coaches confidence behind him to do better than Cam, and we have the worst supporting cast in football.
Cam & James White are the only skill players on our offence that I think would potentially start on another team, not any team either just 1 or 2 each out of the 31....
Most of our other skill players would struggle to stay on rosters elsewhere.

I'd like to think we'll keep Cam in place (unless we can upgrade in the offseason) and use the picks from the probable Gilmore trade to fix the offence.
What will likely happen though is Bill will use our 1st top-10 pick in 20 years on a defensive lineman and go back to picking up skill positions in rounds 3-6...

ELM327

I think we should bench/cut cam as the experiment hasnt worked. Probably no benefit to cutting him so just let him see out his contract this year and move on.
Trade gilmore and anyone else of peak value. Build in the draft and trade for a wr/te

AbusesToilets

Christy42 wrote: »

I mean you can be pretty sure that I am not the answer without me seeing the field.

Bill sees him in training. Brady went from a flawed but intriguing answer that they bent backwards to keep him on the roster year 1 with 4 QBs who quickly jumped up to 2nd without really seeing the field. He was showing signs of learning pretty quickly already. Not that I would have called it but there was something there to show he could do it.

Studham was beat out by Hoyer in training and this isn't a team to drop a young qb into for the hope.

Outside of the injured eagles you likely have the worst set of receivers in the league. At least the Jets have Crowder. Cam can make it work because he is a weapon. Brady struggled to get anything going last year with the offense getting bailed out by the defense a lot. If Stidham is to get there then he obviously has a lot to learn. This is not the offense to learn with.

Brady should never have gone as low as he did either. His performances, including beating Alabama in the bowl, clearly demonstrated his talents.

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

Brady should never have gone as low as he did either. His performances, including beating Alabama in the bowl, clearly demonstrated his talents.

He never looked good in preseasom games though. There was no way to know how good he was. Even when he got to start he spent his first couple of years as a game manager so he wasn't that highly thought of.

AbusesToilets

eagle eye wrote: »

He never looked good in preseasom games though. There was no way to know how good he was. Even when he got to start he spent his first couple of years as a game manager so he wasn't that highly thought of.

He led the league in tds in either his 2nd or 3rd seasons as a starter. The game manager label has always been a lazy, and inaccurate trope.

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

He led the league in tds in either his 2nd or 3rd seasons as a starter. The game manager label has always been a lazy, and inaccurate trope.

You know I remember Daunte Culpepper leading that category one season and Carson Palmer too.
I'm not going to bother checking but I'd bet his first three full seasons are in his five lowest yardage numbers, same with yards per attempt and yards per game obviously.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

You know I remember Daunte Culpepper leading that category one season and Carson Palmer too.
I'm not going to bother checking but I'd bet his first three full seasons are in his five lowest yardage numbers, same with yards per attempt and yards per game obviously.

True, but we also had a much better offence around him and Tom was able to make most of those yards off of play-action.
2002 Pats -
Troy Brown, David Patten, Deion Branch, David Givens, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk - every one of these guys would be an upgrade on our offence.
Not to mention the O-Line was phenomenal as well - Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Russ Hochstein, Damien Woody, Stephen Neal....

Right now we have Cam and White as the only weapons.
Somehow we've still come down to the wire in a few games that we've lost on the back of Cam's playmaking - Seattle was 2 yards away, the Bills was a fumble on a promising drive.

If you take Cam out now, we're not competitive in any games and the poor kid asked to stand in the backfield and take a beating will be ruined for next season.

el Fenomeno

Unusual (but slightly refreshing) to see Bill being so candid about our current situation.

https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1323357453300412417?s=20

AbusesToilets

Brady went 12-4, threw for 4000+yds and had a 28:4 td/int ratio with this team last season. Could easily have been 14-2 if the refs didn't **** us against the Chiefs and if the defense didn't let Fitzmagic drive the field for the win.

I love Cam, and really wanted him to kill it, but he's been really poor.

Smacruairi

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I love Cam, and really wanted him to kill it, but he's been really poor.

He started well but a combination of poor form from him, and defences figuring that the WR corps was poor so he was never looking to throw meant they could stack the box and put pressure on the many many 3rd and 4s/5s.

paulie21

We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign

eagle eye

paulie21 wrote:

We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign

He plays a lot in the slot which is something we badly need.
A quicker outlet for the QB, if he is half the player the last slit guy we got from the Dolphins was it'll be a great move. That last slot guy we got from them was Wes Welker.

Mr. Guappa

paulie21 wrote: »

We've traded for Dolphins WR Isisah Ford. Must admit never heard of him but Dolphins fans are pissed so not a bad sign

2022 7th rounder it seems.

ELM327

So we got him for nothing so.
I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum

me89

ELM327 wrote: »

So we got him for nothing so.
I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum

I really don't see why so many people are saying we should of kept Jimmy G, overpaid average QB who misses more games through injury then he starts, he lasted 6 quarters with us before getting injured.

BizzyC

At this point I'm less concerned about this years offensive woes, and looking moreso at the cap and the state we'll be in next season.
We need to clear out some of our older players to have any chance of rebuilding decently.

2021 Edelman due $6.7m, DMac $11m, Hightower $12.4m, Gilmore $16.4m, Chung $5.1m

I honestly cant see the value in keeping these guys any more.
We have too many holes around the rest of the team to be so heavily invested in them.

eagle eye

Amazingly we are in a grest cap situation next year and a lot of teams will be struggling to stay under the cap.
Great chance of picking up free agents cheaper than normal as not many teams will be in the market.

dh1985

ELM327 wrote: »

So we got him for nothing so.
I have to say, watching the bucs games and ours, I am finding it hard not to be envious and feel BB made the wrong decision. He should have either moved on a year sooner and kept Garropolo or kept Tom ad infinitum

This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.

eagle eye

dh1985 wrote:

This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.

Do you know for certain that we made the choice to move in and not Brady?

Like he restructured his contract to give him the option and sold his house.

AbusesToilets

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you know for certain that we made the choice to move in and not Brady?

Like he restructured his contract to give him the option and sold his house.

I think the die was cast when they didn't offer him a new contract after 2018. He felt underappreciated, and likely saw the dearth of talent on offense coming.

bucketybuck

dh1985 wrote: »

This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom.

Because we weren't winning the superbowl even with him there, and had he stayed it was just kicking the can down the road a year or 2 before he finally packed up, a transition period like this was inevitable, necessary even.

ELM327

me89 wrote: »

I really don't see why so many people are saying we should of kept Jimmy G, overpaid average QB who misses more games through injury then he starts, he lasted 6 quarters with us before getting injured.

My point is more - now we're left with nothing.

BizzyC wrote: »

At this point I'm less concerned about this years offensive woes, and looking moreso at the cap and the state we'll be in next season.
We need to clear out some of our older players to have any chance of rebuilding decently.

2021 Edelman due $6.7m, DMac $11m, Hightower $12.4m, Gilmore $16.4m, Chung $5.1m

I honestly cant see the value in keeping these guys any more.
We have too many holes around the rest of the team to be so heavily invested in them.

Agree

I'd trade all of those now.
Maybe not Edelman as he's 36 next year and we wouldnt get value for him.

dh1985 wrote: »

This is easy. We should have kept tom brady. Why we let the greatest qb of all time walk I cannot fathom. Also the fact that he had put near two decades into team and never demanded his true value to assist with building a stronger team around him should have been acknowledged and respected by providing him with the weapons he deserved.

+1


His contract offer was disgraceful frankly after decades of team friendly contracts

Shedite27

In hindsight, trading him feels like a Jimmy G situation, he'd earned the right to be traded somewhere to be competitive. He hadn't a hope of winning agian with the Pats, sounds like we did hima favour sending him to Tampa

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

Amazingly we are in a grest cap situation next year and a lot of teams will be struggling to stay under the cap.
Great chance of picking up free agents cheaper than normal as not many teams will be in the market.

True, but we're also not paying a QB a decent wage right now. That will have to change next season if we're to stand a chance.
Even if we hold on to Cam, it wont be as cheap as he is right now and we'll still need to spend a tonne of money to make our offence competative again.

If we move on from Cam, it's clear Stidham isn't what Bill wants to move forward with, so we'll need another FA signing or a high draft pick on a QB, which again will take a massive chunk out of our space.

AbusesToilets

Shedite27 wrote: »

In hindsight, trading him feels like a Jimmy G situation, he'd earned the right to be traded somewhere to be competitive. He hadn't a hope of winning agian with the Pats, sounds like we did hima favour sending him to Tampa

The Pats didn't send him anywhere, his contract was up and he left.

eagle eye

BizzyC wrote:

True, but we're also not paying a QB a decent wage right now. That will have to change next season if we're to stand a chance. Even if we hold on to Cam, it wont be as cheap as he is right now and we'll still need to spend a tonne of money to make our offence competative again.

Draft a QB, take a second one as well.
Sticking with Cam is basically throwing another season. If we stick with Can it's a two year rebuild.

BizzyC wrote:

If we move on from Cam, it's clear Stidham isn't what Bill wants to move forward with, so we'll need another FA signing or a high draft pick on a QB, which again will take a massive chunk out of our space.

You don't pay dearly for a QB in the draft. Joe Burrow was the first pick in the draft last year, he'll earn $6.5 million this year, $8.2 million next year. The lower the draft pick the less money you pay.

BizzyC

After yesterdays games, I feel a lot better about having Cam vs Tom right now....

Shedite27

BizzyC wrote: »

After yesterdays games, I feel a lot better about having Cam vs Tom right now....

Cue the Jets winning tonight now

eagle eye

Cam Newton Vs Joe Flacco. It's gonna be awful watching.

AbusesToilets

BizzyC wrote: »

After yesterdays games, I feel a lot better about having Cam vs Tom right now....

That's a terrible take

eagle eye

Halftime, Patriots 10 Jets 20.

Awful stuff. At this rate well have the no.1 pick in the draft.

eagle eye

We win it with a field goal right at the end. Awful stuff, give Stidham his shot.

BizzyC

AbusesToilets wrote: »

That's a terrible take

Good discussion, thanks for your contribution...

Brady was god awful on Sunday, and that was with an embarrassment of offensive weapons to choose from. I shudder to think how that level of play would have linked up with the talent we have around Cam.


On to our game.

I'm not surprised by the Offence, but how is our secondary getting opened up like that by Flacco and the Jets....

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

We win it with a field goal right at the end. Awful stuff, give Stidham his shot.

I am not sure he would have helped stop Flacco from taking apart your secondary.

Edit: you can try see what you have but you know he isn't a superstar yet and there are no receiving options. Watson learned with Hopkins on his team, Mahomes has Hill. Trubisky had a defense to bail him out at every turn. If you want to see what he can do at least give him a shot.

Shedite27

BizzyC wrote: »

Good discussion, thanks for your contribution...

Brady was god awful on Sunday, and that was with an embarrassment of offensive weapons to choose from. I shudder to think how that level of play would have linked up with the talent we have around Cam.

He had one bad game, I reckon he'll outperform Cam in every category this season

Christy42

Shedite27 wrote: »

He had one bad game, I reckon he'll outperform Cam in every category this season

I'll take that bet. (rushing TDs is a category right?) Newton also has the lead on avg/attempt and completion rate.

Brady is the better QB but I am not sure there is a massive amount in it at the moment and we'll you said every category.

paulie21

Meyers is developing into an great receiver, last year Brady wouldn't look his way because he'd only trust Edelman

eagle eye

paulie21 wrote:

Meyers is developing into an great receiver, last year Brady wouldn't look his way because he'd only trust Edelman

Looks really good, if we had a good receiving tight end and an accurate QB we'd be in good shape.
I wonder what's going on with White, he seems underutilised. 171 receiving yards, 51 on the ground and no touchdowns.

BizzyC

I think the problem with White right now is that defences make him a priority in coverage.
After the first couple of games, the league realised they just had to take away JE and White to shut down the pass game, no one else gets open.

Hopefully Meyers can continue to grow and maybe Harry will be struck by lightning and finally play like he was expected to, then White will start to find a few more favourable match-ups again.

AbusesToilets

BizzyC wrote: »

Good discussion, thanks for your contribution...

Brady was god awful on Sunday, and that was with an embarrassment of offensive weapons to choose from. I shudder to think how that level of play would have linked up with the talent we have around Cam.


On to our game.

I'm not surprised by the Offence, but how is our secondary getting opened up like that by Flacco and the Jets....

Brady was playing behind a disintegrating OL, in a scheme that was built around long developing routes. The coaching in Tampa, at least on offense, is garbage. Not clue how to best utilise the talent. In addition, his targets were seemingly determined to drop the good throws he was able to make.

Brady put up 4000+ yards, 28:4 TD/ Int with this team last season. But for a blown call in the Chiefs game, and the defense being unable to stop Fitzmagic, they would've at least had a 1st Rd bye.

Cam has been terrible. Brady has the Bucs in contention, and until last night, angling for a top seed.

el Fenomeno

I too think Cam is better than Brady.

As a Patriots fan, I've followed Brady's career closely and it's safe to say that you can write him off and there is absolutely no danger of him ever proving you wrong.

It certainly never happened during his time here that he ended up proving his doubters wrong, and I see no reason why he would begin doing that now.

I imagine the chip on his shoulder after Sunday Night will be too much to bear and weigh him down. He'll struggle, no doubt. He's never handled adversity well in his career, that's for sure.

eagle eye

FFS, Cam was never as good as Brady and he certainly isn't now.
Brady has a stinker every couple of years and he had one against the Saints.
Look at his other performances this season. He had one interception in his previous seven games.
Cam Newton had his best game of the season last night against the worst defense in the league. He was bad against Buffalo, awful against the 49ers and the Broncos. Two of those performances were in the same realm as Brady against the Saints.