New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

AbusesToilets

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I too think Cam is better than Brady.

As a Patriots fan, I've followed Brady's career closely and it's safe to say that you can write him off and there is absolutely no danger of him ever proving you wrong.

It certainly never happened during his time here that he ended up proving his doubters wrong, and I see no reason why he would begin doing that now.

I imagine the chip on his shoulder after Sunday Night will be too much to bear and weigh him down. He'll struggle, no doubt. He's never handled adversity well in his career, that's for sure.

Have you even watched football this season? Absolutely zero basis for that opinion. Brady was an outside bet for MVP coming into last week, Cam was 2:7 td/ int.

I'm a big fan of Cams, but he's been poor. That throw he missed to Meyers when he was in for a TD was terrible, and a regular feature of the season. His mechanics are terrible, the announcer was pointing it out all night.

D9Male

Whoosh.

Earleybird

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Have you even watched football this season? Absolutely zero basis for that opinion. Brady was an outside bet for MVP coming into last week, Cam was 2:7 td/ int.

I'm a big fan of Cams, but he's been poor. That throw he missed to Meyers when he was in for a TD was terrible, and a regular feature of the season. His mechanics are terrible, the announcer was pointing it out all night.

Saracsm (noun) - the use of irony to mock or convey contempt

BizzyC

FFS, I'm not even saying Cam is better or has ever been better than Brady.
What I've been saying is that I'm glad we have Cam over Brady right now.

If some O-Line struggles at Tampa culminates in Sunday's performance for Tom, while still having a sleuth of weapons around him, how would he be doing in NE...

Right now Cam has no weapons, he's going through his all of his progressions to find a throw to make or he's having to take off and run.
Tom would be stuck holding the ball in the pocket, as bad as last year was for him this year would be way worse.

The amount of fanboyism in this thread makes it impossible to actually discuss anything.

eagle eye

There's hope, we seem to have found a way that this offense can he affective. Very impressed with both sides of the ball in horrific weather tonight.

SK1979

That was a good win last night. Looking at the fixtures, I think they'd need to go 6-1 to get second in the division and probably scrape into the playoffs as a wildcard. Hard to see that happening in reality.

AbusesToilets

It was a good win. The OL is really doing well, worth ever cent. Cam continues to struggle throwing the ball tho. That's gonna be the determiner as to how far we go imo. The missed TD throw to Edelman cost us against the Seahawks, and the Meyers miss could easily have been similar.

I was heartened to see how well we contained Jackson. The Ravens are notably weaker than last year, but we did a decent job keeping him from breaking off big runs .

eagle eye

SK1979 wrote:

That was a good win last night. Looking at the fixtures, I think they'd need to go 6-1 to get second in the division and probably scrape into the playoffs as a wildcard. Hard to see that happening in reality.

We have to face the Bills again and they also have to play the Steelers and Dolphins.
We have to play the Dolphins too.

Our tough games are the Cardinals and Rams. We showed last night that we can stop the run, if we succeed at that we win both those games.

It could yet come down to the game against the Bills for divisional honours.

BizzyC

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The OL is really doing well, worth ever cent.

That's probably the best area of our Offence this season, across the board we're looking very solid, might be quietly one of the best OLines in the league right now.

eagle eye

I'm expecting a big performance tonight. It's very hard to stop what we did last week if the offensive performs to the level they did.

eagle eye

Great start, power running game is so affective.

ScrubsfanChris

Very good start. Playing with confidence.

ScrubsfanChris

And optimism falls apart again as defense gets slaughtered

paulie21

Defence not stopping a thing today

ScrubsfanChris

Very 1st play of the 2nd half and Harry gives up a holding penalty.
Couldn't make it up.

Edit: he made up for it with a good play

ScrubsfanChris

Looks like Rex will be out now
That was nasty

Masked Man

It looked like his knee was obliterated.

paulie21

Cam can throw it deep, 42 yard TD to Byrd

ScrubsfanChris

O line is pathetic, cant blame Cam for any of that.

Big defense stop needed now.

ScrubsfanChris

20 yards short of the end zone...... christ

me89

Great start with the power running game then for some reason Harris didn't touch the ball for the last 12:58 of the 2nd quarter.

eagle eye

ScrubsfanChris wrote:

O line is pathetic, cant blame Cam for any of that.

A defender came on his right at one stage and he never even noticed which is unforgivable. If you at least seen him and didn't get away that's fine but to not even see him is just horrendous. All he had to do was step up a bit.

eagle eye

It was very disappointing after getting lifted last week.
Hard to believe that was just a one off performance because everything just looked organised and in sync.
At this stage our season is finished. I'd like to see Stidham get a run now, just so we can rule him out and move on at the end of the season.
He's certainly learning nothing sitting behind Cam outside of leadership qualities.

paulie21

Don't know how Cam can be blamed for that loss but yet again there you go. Bill and Josh are with these guys every day they obviously see nothing in Stidham. Wouldn't be surprised if Cam gets a new deal

eagle eye

paulie21 wrote:

Don't know how Cam can be blamed for that loss but yet again there you go. Bill and Josh are with these guys every day they obviously see nothing in Stidham. Wouldn't be surprised if Cam gets a new deal

None of the QB's should be getting a new deal. Don't forget that Cam was already benched this season during a game.
As regards Stidham, he's never got his shot. If he doesn't get it then you never know. I'm not at all a believer that he'll do a good job but it'd be nice to find out.
Rest of this season should be about finding out what we need to fix for next season.

AbusesToilets

Cam has such painful mechanics. Tebow esque. What is it that has him repeatedly firing balls into the turf well short of a WR? Disappointing day, have to think that was the last gasp of a post season berth done for.

BizzyC

Yeah, very disappointing performance off the back of last week.
Got nothing going on the ground, defence looked poor...

I'm not sure what they should do now.
TBH I think we need to change up the coaching, with a new QB we need the ability to apply a new scheme.
Josh seems to have gotten predictable, defences know whats coming.
There was one case last week where a DB went in motion before Harry did, he knew where he was headed before Cam called for it.

I think Cam could be good again in a different scheme, the question is whether thats a new scheme with us or elsewhere.
So my next question is, aside from Stidham, who would be a potential replacement for Cam next season?
I dont watch NCAA, are there good prospects coming this year?

BizzyC

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Cam has such painful mechanics.

Yeah his throwing motion has gotten very jerky.
I think his miraculous recovery is showing some wear.

eagle eye

BizzyC wrote:

I think Cam could be good again in a different scheme, the question is whether thats a new scheme with us or elsewhere. So my next question is, aside from Stidham, who would be a potential replacement for Cam next season?

Well the draft is the obvious place to look.
There's a few talented guys coming out. We might have a chance at one of them if we keep up our current form.

Lawrence and Fields will likely be gone but I really like Trey Lance out of North Dakota State. I think he's going to a really good pro.
The BYU QB Zach Wilson is another nice prospect as is Brock Purdy from Iowa state.

If you are looking at picking up someone with experience then it's looking very likely that Sam Darnold will be looking for a new team. Jets look certain to have the no.1 pick and they'll take Trevor Lawrence.
Darnold is a class act imo, he's been very unlucky in his career to date. The man that drafted him lasted for his rookie year and he's been under Gase since. Tannehill was under Gase and look how good he's been since he got away from him
As for Cam, he's finished. He is too slow to check down, he's inaccurate and he doesn't look like he has any feel in his hands anymore.
Cam Newton was a great QB but he was never protected and injuries have taken their toll. I've great admiration for him and it's clear he is a great leader but we have to move on.

el Fenomeno

I'd love to take a shot on Darnold, but my concern would be that the Jets just won't entertain trading him to us out of fear that he fulfills his potential here and they gift us a franchise QB. I think it'll be a very hard trade to pull off.

eagle eye

el Fenomeno wrote:

I'd love to take a shot on Darnold, but my concern would be that the Jets just won't entertain trading him to us out of fear that he fulfills his potential here and they gift us a franchise QB. I think it'll be a very hard trade to pull off.

They have 9 million in dead cap money if they hold onto him until after June 1st.
I can't see too many teams paying big for him as he only has one year left on his contract.
I'm with you though, the Jets won't want us getting him.

eagle eye

TB struggling mightily when hurried and pressured. He can't throw it long anymore either. Always felt that Arian's playbook wouldn't suit him.
He needs a lot of dink and dunk to be at his best.

AbusesToilets

eagle eye wrote: »

TB struggling mightily when hurried and pressured. He can't throw it long anymore either. Always felt that Arian's playbook wouldn't suit him.
He needs a lot of dink and dunk to be at his best.

That's not an accurate take, his deep ball is fine. He's shown that multiple times this season. He has a turnstile for an OL, in a scheme that persists with deep routes that rely on a receiver beating his defender 1v1. No QB is going to do well in that system when they are under constant pressure

ELM327

He's missed a lot of open deep balls though.

AbusesToilets

ELM327 wrote: »

He's missed a lot of open deep balls though.

He did, it was a very poor game from him. One game isn't a trend tho, and you have to take account of the situation he's in. We have seen him dropping dimes this season too. The truth is somewhere in the middle. I'd definitely say he's had a decline over the last few seasons, there's certainly been more wtf throws. The offensive scheme in Tampa is ****ing garbage, and doesn't work to his strengths at all though.

ELM327

I meant in general. He's something like 1 of 30 from his last pass attempts over 20 yards.
They have a stacked offense now. Brady is playing better than cam, but his target should be higher than that, another 'bowl win.

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He did, it was a very poor game from him. One game isn't a trend tho, and you have to take account of the situation he's in. We have seen him dropping dimes this season too. The truth is somewhere in the middle. I'd definitely say he's had a decline over the last few seasons, there's certainly been more wtf throws. The offensive scheme in Tampa is ****ing garbage, and doesn't work to his strengths at all though.

It's Arians playbook, it's always been like that. Carson Palmer looked like a superstar in some games and a hopeless case in others, sometimes both in the same game. Winston the same last season.
That playbook certainly doesn't suit Tom Brady. It wouldn't suit a prime TB. There's too many deep balls. Brady threw an awful pick and another one should have been picked. In Brady's worst season in the last ten years he threw 12 picks, he's already thrown 9 this season. The reason for that is the amount of deep throws called.

ELM327

He needs to get to the point that peyton got with Denver, and essentially be calling his own plays.
Leftwich is an awful OC and the Arians playbook doesnt suit TB anyway. Tom is best at short to medium passes mixed with runs, play action, and checkdown to the RB out of the backfield. Be it White, Faulk, or fournette this year, that's where TB is at his best. He's not Favre and shouldnt be playing as such.

Tom is better than having to throw it up as a gamble every odd play.

AbusesToilets

That's what I find so perplexing, I'd have thought Tom had a strong enough personality to insist on a scheme that suits. There was a tweet where they showed the Bucs only motioned ~6 times out of 60+ plays vs the Rams. That's just the antithesis of everything Brady does well. How ca n you read a defense if you don't use motion?

His read progression is seemingly far to near, which might explain why he hasn't thrown to open receivers. The whole thing is just a mess. Does my head in.

eagle eye

Wynn to IR.

Masked Man

Painful stuff

paulie21

Even though Cam was absolute dirt, defense giving up 17 points gave us the chance to win and we took it

BizzyC

Defence and Special teams really won that game for us.

Cam was poor, receivers were poor, run game was poor....
Our longest drive was 41 yards, we never got going offensively.

eagle eye

I don't know how we managed to win it. I'm nearly at the stage of hoping we don't win, I could never really do that, so we have a better chance at getting a really good QB in the draft.

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know how we managed to win it. I'm nearly at the stage of hoping we don't win, I could never really do that, so we have a better chance at getting a really good QB in the draft.

Don't worry, you get there eventually. It has a rather calming effect.

el Fenomeno

While the playoffs are mathematically possible, I still want us to win. It would be actually pretty enjoyable to go to the playoffs without the burden of expectation that comes with being a Super Bowl favourite. We'd be the underdog against almost any other playoff calibre team and from the fans perspective, that would be a refreshing change.

As soon as its mathematically impossible....then they can tank

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

Don't worry, you get there eventually. It has a rather calming effect.

I'll never get there. It makes a bit of sense but as soon as a ball is snapped a want the win. I was a season ticket holder during an awful season and never stopped eating us to win. That was '95 when we opened up 1-5 but I loved us beating the Bills in Foxboro Stadium. The Bills were kinda like the Patriots at that time, dominating the division. Different to the Patriots in that they couldn't win a Superbowl. I wanted them to win one for Jim Kelly, he deserved one.

AbusesToilets

I find it wild to think we could be outside contenders with a better QB. I'm saddened that Cam hasn't worked out, but hopefully for the future if we can secure a decent QB. Our run game, with that OL is solid. A good WR1, actual TEs and we'd be in business.

Shedite27

I was reading MMQB today and they mentioned that the new regime in Detroit might want to start afresh without Stafford. If there's nobody in the draft that Bill fancies (and we're now down to pick #15), he wouldn't be the worst veteran to get in, still 32 so would have 5/6 serviceable years. Big contract for 2 years but that could be restructured, Pats have decent cap space.

BonnieSituation

eagle eye wrote: »

I'll never get there. It makes a bit of sense but as soon as a ball is snapped a want the win. I was a season ticket holder during an awful season and never stopped eating us to win. That was '95 when we opened up 1-5 but I loved us beating the Bills in Foxboro Stadium. The Bills were kinda like the Patriots at that time, dominating the division. Different to the Patriots in that they couldn't win a Superbowl. I wanted them to win one for Jim Kelly, he deserved one.

Ha ha. It's been so long since we looked like a play off team, so I don't suffer from such notions.

I adore Jim Kelly and it always rankles he never got at least one SB, or that we couldn't do something with Chad.

Shedite27 wrote: »

I was reading MMQB today and they mentioned that the new regime in Detroit might want to start afresh without Stafford. If there's nobody in the draft that Bill fancies (and we're now down to pick #15), he wouldn't be the worst veteran to get in, still 32 so would have 5/6 serviceable years. Big contract for 2 years but that could be restructured, Pats have decent cap space.

I've been fantasising about us taking Stafford at some point over the lastcouple of years. He would be a quality pick up for someone.