New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Mr. Guappa

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Sorry now but what is Round 5?
e.g. Round 1 Patriots pick 15th. So round 5 they pick 75th - but give it to 49ers?

That sounds like a steal!

Receiver options good in the Draft? Even for BB!

The draft is 7 rounds, roughly 250 picks in total, depending on how many compensatory picks there were.

Each round is 32 picks, one per team, same position each round, unless a pick is traded.

So, the Jaguars this year will own the first pick in each round - 1, 33, 65.

From the third round on, there will be a number of compensatory picks at the end of each round - these are awarded to teams that have lost high-qualtiy free agents, based on some formula.

The Patriots 5th round pick will be something like the 160th overall selection.

Jolly Red Giant

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Yeah seems like a bad situation there. Not surprised they went with Caserio though, they've been trying to get him with a few years. We resisted all those previous attempts, so obviously did not want to lose him. That said, our drafting has been sub-par recently so a change might be for the best? Not sure how much say Caserio had in our picks though?

Does this open the prospect of McDaniels taking the HC job there?

ionadnapokot

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

The draft is 7 rounds, roughly 250 picks in total, depending on how many compensatory picks there were.

Each round is 32 picks, one per team, same position each round, unless a pick is traded.

So, the Jaguars this year will own the first pick in each round - 1, 33, 65.

From the third round on, there will be a number of compensatory picks at the end of each round - these are awarded to teams that have lost high-qualtiy free agents, based on some formula.

The Patriots 5th round pick will be something like the 160th overall selection.

My Maths went out the window there! & I forgot to factor in the other teams that are in in the play-offs!

160th pick for JG sounds good!

Any guesses if BB will pick a WR or CB in the 1st round?

el Fenomeno

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Does this open the prospect of McDaniels taking the HC job there?

I bet you hope so.

You haven't been able to bang that drum for a while!

Foxtrol

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Sorry now but what is Round 5?
e.g. Round 1 Patriots pick 15th. So round 5 they pick 75th - but give it to 49ers?

That sounds like a steal!

Receiver options good in the Draft? Even for BB!

A steal yes but that is because I'd suspect that is usual offseason ideas completely pulled out of his ass - like the rumour today that Watson could be acquired for 2 1sts and change.

For all the smoke, Jimmy will only be moved if 49ers somehow get Stafford or trade for another good QB or trade the whole way up to get one of the first QBs that would be good to start on day 1 - neither of which are very likely. Even if that happened there'd be enough interest to get more than a 5th, especially as he has 2 years on his deal and at a reasonable cost.

StringerBell

I'd not be too pushed to bring Jimmy back tbh, he has a real problem staying on the field it seems! For a 5th it would be a no brainer of course but definitely wouldn't be going with a 2nd for him at this stage, big contract too but I haven't looked into how that can break down as its not a realistic trade for me.

Whats Matt Cassel up to these days though?

Foxtrol

StringerBell wrote: »

I'd not be too pushed to bring Jimmy back tbh, he has a real problem staying on the field it seems! For a 5th it would be a no brainer of course but definitely wouldn't be going with a 2nd for him at this stage, big contract too but I haven't looked into how that can break down as its not a realistic trade for me.

Whats Matt Cassel up to these days though?

He will actually be cheap enough next year given the price of QBs these days, as ther 49ers front loaded the contract. If traded he'd be around $25m - one of the lowest non-rookie tied starter contracts.

BrentMused

I'm sure many of you guys may have already read it, but I'm about halfway through Jeff Benedict's 'The Dynasty' which I received for Christmas.

What a superb read it is so far.

PhuckHugh

BrentMused wrote: »

I'm sure many of you guys may have already read it, but I'm about halfway through Jeff Benedict's 'The Dynasty' which I received for Christmas.

What a superb read it is so far.

Boycott?

eagle eye

Gotta say I like Mac Jones a lot. He is very similar to Brady coming out of college with question marks over his deep ball. He's probably more developed than Brady was. What I like about him is how quick he gets the ball out of his hands, his footwork and awareness in the pocket, how quick he checks down and his reading of the defense. Another hugely important trait is making the right decision when the play breaks down whether that's taking the sack or getting rid of the ball, he doesn't make stupid decisions like trying run run backwards and get the throw away and lose huge yardage if he gets sacked or try and throw it with a defender in his face.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

Gotta say I like Mac Jones a lot. He is very similar to Brady coming out of college with question marks over his deep ball. He's probably more developed than Brady was. What I like about him is how quick he gets the ball out of his hands, his footwork and awareness in the pocket, how quick he checks down and his reading of the defense. Another hugely important trait is making the right decision when the play breaks down whether that's taking the sack or getting rid of the ball, he doesn't make stupid decisions like trying run run backwards and get the throw away and lose huge yardage if he gets sacked or try and throw it with a defender in his face.

Assuming he's still on the board, I think he'd be the most likely choice Bill would make at QB.
He'd have a very good awareness of who/what Jones is thanks to his relationship with Saban.
But we all know Bill wont spend a pick for a positional need alone, the player needs to be worth the pick, so the question is - is Mac Jones at top 15 talent in the draft, or at least close to that?

I'm not just asking that question to cast doubt, I really have no idea myself as I haven't watched any film of Jones.

Christy42

BizzyC wrote: »

Assuming he's still on the board, I think he'd be the most likely choice Bill would make at QB.
He'd have a very good awareness of who/what Jones is thanks to his relationship with Saban.
But we all know Bill wont spend a pick for a positional need alone, the player needs to be worth the pick, so the question is - is Mac Jones at top 15 talent in the draft, or at least close to that?

I'm not just asking that question to cast doubt, I really have no idea myself as I haven't watched any film of Jones.

You could probably trade down a bit and still get him. There are a lot of qb needy teams but there is some highly regarded star power in this draft. 4 or more QBs are expected to go ahead of Jones near as I can see.

If anyone loses out I reckon they will largely wait till next year. As for his play, from what I have seen is decent accuracy, good movement within the pocket. However the negative is I doubt anyone has an accurate evaluation on him. He had the world's greatest armchair ride.

ELM327

I'd prefer Jimmy G back to spending a high pick on an unknown QB prospect

eagle eye

Based on what I've seen of Jimmy G these past two years I'd rather James Winston and that's not because I rate James Winston highly.

el Fenomeno

eagle eye wrote: »

Based on what I've seen of Jimmy G these past two years I'd rather James Winston and that's not because I rate James Winston highly.

I'd take the entertainment of Winston throwing 5000 yards, 30 TDs and 30 Int over Cam's 100 yards, 0 TDs and 1 Int.

ELM327

As a favre fan I'd love to see Winston playing in NE. He's got the same mentality as favre had, throw it up there :P (albeit with less success). NE could coach him.

Shedite27

ELM327 wrote: »

As a favre fan I'd love to see Winston playing in NE. He's got the same mentality as favre had, throw it up there :P (albeit with less success). NE could coach him.

I'd love it too, but you'd have to give up a kings randsom to get him, too many draftpicks that we need elsewhere

el Fenomeno

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'd love it too, but you'd have to give up a kings randsom to get him, too many draftpicks that we need elsewhere

He's a free agent this year, he only signed a 1 year contract last off-season.

Shedite27

el Fenomeno wrote: »

He's a free agent this year, he only signed a 1 year contract last off-season.

Sorry, misread your post as Watson

BizzyC

I wouldn't take Winston in NE right now.
He throws the ball up too much and relies on his receivers making big plays.
We need 4-5 new receivers to have any success with that kinda mentality at the helm.
We need someone who will protect the ball and work through the progressions/options correctly.

ELM327

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'd love it too, but you'd have to give up a kings randsom to get him, too many draftpicks that we need elsewhere

Assuming you're referring to Watson, I'd love him to be in NE too but he'd have the same problem as he does in texas - albeit without the hatred for the GM - which is no receiver corp and not much to speak of. No point giving up 2 firsts or something like that for him.


If Watson gives inklings about holding out, the Texans will progressively lose leverage and we may get him for less than expected.

BizzyC wrote: »

I wouldn't take Winston in NE right now.
He throws the ball up too much and relies on his receivers making big plays.
We need 4-5 new receivers to have any success with that kinda mentality at the helm.
We need someone who will protect the ball and work through the progressions/options correctly.

Agree
Winston will give you TDs, and also INTs. We have the defense (assuming our holdouts come back) to manage some INTs.

el Fenomeno

I don't think even the '85 Bears could cope with Winston's interceptions

ELM327

I mean, you'd have to imagine he'd throw less interceptions in a short passing game like NE compared to the "deep shot first" in tampa

AbusesToilets

Why are we bringing Patricia back? Can't get the thinking behind that

StringerBell

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Why are we bringing Patricia back? Can't get the thinking behind that

BB is a huge fan of his, and much like McDaniels just because you flopped in your try out as a HC doesn't mean you have no value as a AC.

AbusesToilets

StringerBell wrote: »

BB is a huge fan of his, and much like McDaniels just because you flopped in your try out as a HC doesn't mean you have no value as a AC.

Our defenses were not the mae west when he was in situ. Flores was a significant improvement. It also calls into question the role of Steve Belichick and Mayo going forward.

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

Our defenses were not the mae west when he was in situ. Flores was a significant improvement. It also calls into question the role of Steve Belichick and Mayo going forward.

Mayo might not be there next season. He's made it very clear that becoming a head coach at any level is his primary goal. If the Tennessee Volunteers came calling he'd be gone I think. There's more than just them that would interest him I think in college football. Like he's already had an interview for an NFL head coaching position after two years coaching and not even being a co-ordinator.

BizzyC

I dont think Matt P will change too much about the D in the shortterm.
Been reported he'll be a "project" based role for now, what that means remains to be seen.

The real question I'd have is how this affects Josh. Last week Josh was the one and only person in play to take over from BB when he retires.
If Matt P hangs around being BB's right hand man, that natural progression for Josh is less clear cut.

Tom1991

BizzyC wrote: »

I dont think Matt P will change too much about the D in the shortterm.
Been reported he'll be a "project" based role for now, what that means remains to be seen.

The real question I'd have is how this affects Josh. Last week Josh was the one and only person in play to take over from BB when he retires.
If Matt P hangs around being BB's right hand man, that natural progression for Josh is less clear cut.

Josh was the highest paid co-ordinator in the league when he signed his last deal so there's plenty reason to stay over walking into a toxic environment as head coach elsewhere.
You see these deals all the time in the nfl guys going back to there roots and rebuilding there career. I wouldn't read too much into it other than he will move on to college DC level quietly at some stage or become a coaching "consultant" hire that tends to get jobs off 1st time or green head coaches.

BizzyC

OK so last night I was happy to see Tom win another SB....but I'd like him to stop now.

I dont like the prospect of seeing Tampa in the hunt every offseason for the next couple years..

eagle eye

I was delighted for Brady. If there was anybody claiming he wasn't the GOAT then that ended any argument.

StringerBell

eagle eye wrote: »

I was delighted for Brady. If there was anybody claiming he wasn't the GOAT then that ended any argument.

Honestly, if anyone had been unclear on his status in the game before last night they weren't worth worrying about.

Very happy for him and Gronk actually, tinged with sadness but yeah it's an amazing achievement.

ELM327

I reckon TB have another 2-3 year window where they can win more ring(s).
Tom is still throwing the ball with zip belying his increasing years. He's gonna fall off the cliff the way Peyton did at some point but Brady has always says he'll play until "he sucks".

Speaking of Peyton, I thought it was odd seeing him inducted to the HOF, given the 5 year retired criteria, while Brady is still playing and winning!

BizzyC

ELM327 wrote: »

I reckon TB have another 2-3 year window where they can win more ring(s).
Tom is still throwing the ball with zip belying his increasing years. He's gonna fall off the cliff the way Peyton did at some point but Brady has always says he'll play until "he sucks".

Speaking of Peyton, I thought it was odd seeing him inducted to the HOF, given the 5 year retired criteria, while Brady is still playing and winning!

Since Peyton retired, Tom has won 3 more rings.... crazy

el Fenomeno

eagle eye wrote: »

I was delighted for Brady.

But you said at the start of the season that you didn't want him or Gronk to do well, and that you hoped things went badly for them at Tampa?

AbusesToilets

ELM327 wrote: »

I reckon TB have another 2-3 year window where they can win more ring(s).
Tom is still throwing the ball with zip belying his increasing years. He's gonna fall off the cliff the way Peyton did at some point but Brady has always says he'll play until "he sucks".

Speaking of Peyton, I thought it was odd seeing him inducted to the HOF, given the 5 year retired criteria, while Brady is still playing and winning!

Getting booed on the field before SB 50 really lit a fresh fire in Brady's soul imo.

ArmaniJeanss

el Fenomeno wrote: »

But you said at the start of the season that you didn't want him or Gronk to do well, and that you hoped things went badly for them at Tampa?

Chap can change his mind, its happens especially after a decent amount of time has passed. The initial reaction after a player moves team can be quite emotional.

Like with me when Coutinho manufactured a move from Liverpool I was pretty crushed and hated him - but later on was quite happy to see him winning the Champions League.

el Fenomeno

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Like with me when Coutinho manufactured a move from Liverpool I was pretty crushed and hated him - but later on was quite happy to see him winning the Champions League.

Coutinho! Ha, Jaysus, I think there's a bit of a difference between Phillipe bloody Coutinho who achieved the grand sum of sweet fúck all apart from a few goals of the week in 5 years and threw his toys out of the pram to force a move away, and Tom Brady who gave 20 years of all time greatness and left lifelong memories and 6 championships behind him.

Id question the maturity of anyone who took any position other than wishing him well! Emotion me bollix.

BaronVon

BizzyC wrote: »

Since Peyton retired, Tom has won 3 more rings.... crazy

Only the Manning brothers were really stopping him beforehand.....:pac::pac:

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote:

Well I certainly won't be watching them. I refuse to watch the GOAT in another uniform, it'd hurt too much. I don't hold anything against him, he will always be my favourite player.

el Fenomeno wrote:

But you said at the start of the season that you didn't want him or Gronk to do well, and that you hoped things went badly for them at Tampa?

The above I believe was my only post about Brady.
I may have had another post where I said the Patriots come first.
I didn't watch the Bucs play until very late in the season when we were definitely out and I wanted Brady to do it then.
Gronk is different. I don't like that he retired and then unretired and forced a trade away. I do remember though that he said he'd never play with any other QB so I guess that's fair enough.
Brady clearly made an agreement in 2019 which gave him the option to move on. I don't think there's any ill will there with the organisation. I suspect he wanted more input into FA signings and some involvement in coaching and wasn't going to get that as a player in New England. Arians spoke about how he let him coach and the major role he played in some of their FA signings.

ELM327

^^ I agree with the above.
The way I see Brady now is like the way I used to see Favre. Both were at one time my favorite player but not playing for NE. I'm a pats fan first.

el Fenomeno

eagle eye wrote: »

The above I believe was my only post about Brady.
I may have had another post where I said the Patriots come first.

Selective memory! Yes, you did have a post where you said the Pats come first. But you're forgetting that in that same post, you also said:

"Two of my favourite players of all time but I'm hoping it all goes wrong in Tampa. I honestly don't want them to do well."

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113232425&postcount=3963

I think the natural reaction was to wish them well as long as it doesn't affect us. That is, not wishing them well if they're playing against us, or if they're playing a game where it benefits us for them to lose.

I can't imagine any other scenario where it feels right to wish them failure.

eagle eye

Ok I obviously said that in a weak moment. It was more about Gronk than Brady. As you can see from my post which I quoted, Brady is and always will be my favourite player.

el Fenomeno

eagle eye wrote: »

Ok I obviously said that in a weak moment. It was more about Gronk than Brady. As you can see from my post which I quoted, Brady is and always will be my favourite player.

That's fair enough. I'm being a bit of a prick harping on about it so ignore me (I'm sure many do anyway). Apologies.

AbusesToilets

I took a lot of enjoyment at Gronks success vs Kelce. I have a unfair dislike for Kelce, probably out of jealously with respect to Gronks legacy as the best TE ever. Kelce has had a great season, and had a decent game statwise but very quiet in terms of impact. Didn't feel like he took over a game the way Gronk has in the biggest moments, like the 2015 AFCCG, or SB 52

el Fenomeno

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I took a lot of enjoyment at Gronks success vs Kelce. I have a unfair dislike for Kelce, probably out of jealously with respect to Gronks legacy as the best TE ever. Kelce has had a great season, and had a decent game statwise but very quiet in terms of impact. Didn't feel like he took over a game the way Gronk has in the biggest moments, like the 2015 AFCCG, or SB 52

Kelce is literally only 2 weeks removed from a 13 reception, 118 yards, 2 TD game in the AFC Championship. Literally the difference between the 2 teams in a 14 point game.

31 receptions, 360 yards, 3 TDs in the playoffs this year. All big games. I don't know how they're considered good stats but not considered making an impact. Is just because they didn't win it all?

I'm very much team Gronk, but let's not be silly trying to put Kelce down.

eagle eye

AbusesToilets wrote:

I took a lot of enjoyment at Gronks success vs Kelce. I have a unfair dislike for Kelce, probably out of jealously with respect to Gronks legacy as the best TE ever. Kelce has had a great season, and had a decent game statwise but very quiet in terms of impact. Didn't feel like he took over a game the way Gronk has in the biggest moments, like the 2015 AFCCG, or SB 52

He doesn't even compare with Gronk outside of receiving stats. Gronk is the compete tight end, run blocking and pass blocking at an extremely high level. Kittle is the closest to him.

AbusesToilets

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Kelce is literally only 2 weeks removed from a 13 reception, 118 yards, 2 TD game in the AFC Championship. Literally the difference between the 2 teams in a 14 point game.

31 receptions, 360 yards, 3 TDs in the playoffs this year. All big games. I don't know how they're considered good stats but not considered making an impact. Is just because they didn't win it all?

I'm very much team Gronk, but let's not be silly trying to put Kelce down.

I wasn't meaning to come across like I was putting him down , I respect his abilities. What I meant was him pulling his team out of a hole, the way Gronk has in the past.

ELM327

eagle eye wrote: »

He doesn't even compare with Gronk outside of receiving stats. Gronk is the compete tight end, run blocking and pass blocking at an extremely high level. Kittle is the closest to him.

Gronk is possibly the only such complete TE to ever play the game.


He's unmatched in catch in traffic, route running, boxing out DBs, along with run + pass blocking like a lineman.


He revolutionized the position and is a sure fire 1st ballot HOF when he retires for good.
The other TEs that are upper echelon have a specialty, usually route running or catch in traffic. Gronk does everything to an unmatched level and has no one specialty.

BizzyC

ELM327 wrote: »

Gronk is possibly the only such complete TE to ever play the game.


He's unmatched in catch in traffic, route running, boxing out DBs, along with run + pass blocking like a lineman.


He revolutionized the position and is a sure fire 1st ballot HOF when he retires for good.
The other TEs that are upper echelon have a specialty, usually route running or catch in traffic. Gronk does everything to an unmatched level and has no one specialty.

I'd agree on Kittle though, he has ridiculous pass catching ability and unlike Kelce can be seen pancaking on run plays on a regular basis.
If he can stay healthy, Kittle is the one you have to watch out for entering the argument for the most complete TE.