New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

AbusesToilets

I wonder if we'll go for a FA TE this year? I'm hoping we get a shot at Pitts, not a college watcher but I've heard great things.

eagle eye

ELM327 wrote: »

Gronk is possibly the only such complete TE to ever play the game.


He's unmatched in catch in traffic, route running, boxing out DBs, along with run + pass blocking like a lineman.


He revolutionized the position and is a sure fire 1st ballot HOF when he retires for good.
The other TEs that are upper echelon have a specialty, usually route running or catch in traffic. Gronk does everything to an unmatched level and has no one specialty.

Jason Witten is up there with Gronk all time, not as good at receiving but did all the other bits to a very high level.

Speckydodge

AbusesToilets wrote:

I wonder if we'll go for a FA TE this year? I'm hoping we get a shot at Pitts, not a college watcher but I've heard great things.

Hunter Henry would be the one to go for, durability would be a slight concern but he's excellent. Hopefully the 2 rooks can start to be involved more going forward.
Pitts is a monster of a receiving TE doesn't have the all round game of Gronk but he'll be a mismatch for whoever picks him and give a QB an out like Kelce does.

BizzyC

If the TE is a receiving threat, they dont need to be an amazing run blocker to do well enough.
The problem we've had since Gronk left is that defenses know "TE = run play" because our guys dont catch balls.
As soon as you have a player in there who might block but have to account for in coverage, it makes the D less aggressive against the run when they see him in.

eagle eye

A tight end can be in for pass block as well.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

A tight end can be in for pass block as well.

True, but the point still stands that when you don't have to worry about a TE being a real receiving threat, you can attack downhill harder and focus your coverage on the other threats on the field.
If you're not going to use a TE as a valid receiving target, you may as well play a 6th lineman.

You can make space in the run game either by having enough blockers to pickup all the defenders in the box, or enough threat outside to pull defenders out of the box.
Without a threat at TE the defence can just load the box when they're in the game and know they wont be talented enough to make trouble on a passing play.

eagle eye

It's not really that simple. A tight end can be in to pass block, open a hole at the line or run down the field to block at the second level. He can also be a receiving option even if he's not that great at it, leave him wide open and he'll catch a ball.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

It's not really that simple. A tight end can be in to pass block, open a hole at the line or run down the field to block at the second level. He can also be a receiving option even if he's not that great at it, leave him wide open and he'll catch a ball.

Knowing that the guy opposite you isn't going to be a big risk to get past you means you can focus more on what's in front of you and play downhill.

As an outside Linebacker generally if you are covering a TE at the snap you want to hit them, regardless of whether you're in man or covering an underneath zone, you're going to hit that TE as soon as he comes close to you.
If the guy you're covering cant really run routes well and isn't athletic enough to shrug off the contact, you can afford to hit him a lot harder.
Likewise if you're outside, generally your first read would be the release of your man followed by a read inside to check on the backfield. Again if you know that the guys opposite isn't athletic and a good route runner, you can cheat and read the backfield first because you know you can adjust and pick him up later if needs be, he's not getting away from you.

If you put in a decent receiver in the same position, you have to play more honestly off the snap. Even if he wont be a great blocker in the run game, he'll slow down the run read.

Edit to add - the same can be said for a pure receiver. If I don't consider you a threat in the run game, I'm gonna read your release on the snap every time and blow right through you when I see a run release.
You dont need to be a Gronk - great at both, but as long as you're decent at one and good at the other I'll have a tougher time because it keeps my read honest.

My preference between the two though would be the pure receiving threat, because they help in the pass game and at least keep that primary read off the run.

StringerBell

Cannon, Chung and Hightower all coming back for the 2021 season.

Hopefully the likes of Hightower will.have benefitted from.the season off and the body getting a break at least.

BizzyC

Kyle Van Noy back in the FA market.
Would be a great signing if we could get him on a cap friendly contract...

ELM327

Van Noy and that recently released TE could both be in NE , especially if I had my way!

BizzyC

looks like there's going to be a glut of talent hitting FA next week...

Saints $60m over
Eagles $40m over ($40m dead)
Rams $28m over ($34m dead)
Chiefs $19m over
Falcons $15m over ($11m dead)

A lot of restructuring has already been done, particularly at the Saints, the only way these teams will get themselves under the cap is to start cutting some decent players next week.

I think we're going to see a big reshuffling of teams this year with some teams purging rosters, and others moving guys around to make space for a FA target.

Cant wait to see all the big name signings that other teams will be doing while Bill signs 10 guys we've never heard of...

BizzyC

So the FA activity has begun...

We've picked up Trent Brown on a decent deal, so our O-Line should be in good shape.
Trade interest for Harry (wouldn't be sad to get some value for him and move on)

Van Noy, Emmanuel Sanders, John Brown I think will be of interest to Bill and would be good pickups imo.
Having Hightower & Kyle back would go a long way towards solidifying our front 7, really just needing some help at DT to sure up the D then.

Brown can stretch the field and Sanders is getting up in age but can still make space for himself and act as a good safety valve for a QB.
Bill is very familiar with all these guys, he always seems to prefer to bring in known-quantities over young talent.

eagle eye

The question is if we are in rebuild mode or going for it.
If we want to go for it we are in a very strong position with all the decent FA's out there and most teams with no cap space, we could get short term deals with a lot of great players.

Shedite27

eagle eye wrote: »

The question is if we are in rebuild mode or going for it.
If we want to go for it we are in a very strong position with all the decent FA's out there and most teams with no cap space, we could get short term deals with a lot of great players.

Exactly, no point in spending money on FA wide receivers if we don't have a QB

BizzyC

I don't think we need a full rebuild though.
QB, WR, DL, LB are the areas we need to address, I think we're only 4-5 good players away from being back in contention.


We don't need to break the bank on big names, I reckon FA contracts will be lighter this year than any other due to the number of teams struggling for space.

Sanders and Brown are both up there in age, not going to pay big bucks on longterm deals there. If we could sign both of them for $12m a year, we'd still have space to sign a few rookies to develop along side them for the next year or two with an instant upgrade on our current corps.

Signing Van Noy + a DT will put us back to having a serious D to work with.

OL, DB's and RB's are good enough going into next season IMO.

Then it would come down to who's going to be at QB....

ELM327

BizzyC wrote: »

I don't think we need a full rebuild though.
QB, WR, DL, LB are the areas we need to address, I think we're only 4-5 good players away from being back in contention.


We don't need to break the bank on big names, I reckon FA contracts will be lighter this year than any other due to the number of teams struggling for space.

Sanders and Brown are both up there in age, not going to pay big bucks on longterm deals there. If we could sign both of them for $12m a year, we'd still have space to sign a few rookies to develop along side them for the next year or two with an instant upgrade on our current corps.

Signing Van Noy + a DT will put us back to having a serious D to work with.

OL, DB's and RB's are good enough going into next season IMO.

Then it would come down to who's going to be at QB....

So basically a whole team of skilled players., except for the CB/Safeties.

el Fenomeno

Part of me wants to see Fitzmagic take the wheels on a run first offence and ride Harris and Michel all the way to the playoffs.

ELM327

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Part of me wants to see Fitzmagic take the wheels on a run first offence and ride Harris and Michel all the way to the playoffs.

I agree

cosatron

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Part of me wants to see Fitzmagic take the wheels on a run first offence and ride Harris and Michel all the way to the playoffs.

I think every nfl fan wants to see this. Great character fitzmagic and deserves a decent shot

ELM327

Imagine if he won a SB and got into the HOF as a journeyman

Speckydodge

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Part of me wants to see Fitzmagic take the wheels on a run first offence and ride Harris and Michel all the way to the playoffs.

He'd hate that though, the dude just wants throw all over the field:D:D

Speckydodge

Of all the FA wr's I really hope we go for Curtis Samuel. Only 24, not massively expensive like Golloday and he's about to break out IMO. He can do it all, the modern wr/rb hybrid.

Foxtrol

Speckydodge wrote: »

Of all the FA wr's I really hope we go for Curtis Samuel. Only 24, not massively expensive like Golloday and he's about to break out IMO. He can do it all, the modern wr/rb hybrid.

You're right on his talent but I think many will be surprised at the kind of money he'll probably get. Teams know this as well and it only takes 1 team with cap space for his price to rocket up (many teams end up bidding against themselves).

StringerBell

Seems to be confirmed now that Newton is returning on a 1 year deal, worth up to 14million

Doesn't signal going for it anyway!

Christy42

StringerBell wrote: »

Seems to be confirmed now that Newton is returning on a 1 year deal, worth up to 14million

Doesn't signal going for it anyway!

Wonder if it is essentially a QB coach role that also let's the rookie sit on the bench for a bit while getting up to speed (and allows NE to get actual receivers before they get traumatised).

Mr. Guappa

StringerBell wrote: »

Seems to be confirmed now that Newton is returning on a 1 year deal, worth up to 14million

Doesn't signal going for it anyway!

5 million base salary, with another 9 million in incentives. Hopefully he winds up as the back-up to a QB we pick in the draft.

Speckydodge

Christy42 wrote:

Wonder if it is essentially a QB coach role that also let's the rookie sit on the bench for a bit while getting up to speed (and allows NE to get actual receivers before they get traumatised).

They need to get the rookie qb pick right. Hard to see them trading up for Lance or Field's, I'd be happy if they did though.
Kellen Mond in the second is intriguing.

paulie21

Cannon traded to the Texans

el Fenomeno

paulie21 wrote: »

Cannon traded to the Texans

For a swap of our 4th, 5th and 6th round picks.

We'll now have their 3rd pick in each of those rounds, they'll have our 15th.

Saves $6.2m in cap - few reporters saying he likely would have been cut anyway

We have an awful lot of cap space. I hope we do something exciting with it.

Mr. Guappa

el Fenomeno wrote: »

For a swap of our 4th, 5th and 6th round picks.

We'll now have their 3rd pick in each of those rounds, they'll have our 15th.

Saves $6.2m in cap - few reporters saying he likely would have been cut anyway

We have an awful lot of cap space. I hope we do something exciting with it.

Ooh, that's more than I expected we'd get tbh. Would most likely have been cut as you say, so that's a great little deal.

BizzyC

Yeah, free draft pick upgrades in essence and Texans get him for less than he'd probably get as a FA in return....

Hope we use the money to resign Andrews now.

el Fenomeno

Jonnu Smith! We have a TE again!

4 years, $50m.

el Fenomeno

Former Dolphins DT Davon Godchaux on a 2 year deal too. Worth up to $16m, per Schefter.

Masked Man

We have a receiving threat! What a day.

My expectations for the season just increased exponentially. We may actually convert on 3rd and long.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote:

We have a receiving threat! What a day.

My expectations for the season just increased exponentially. We may actually convert on 3rd and long.

Just need a QB to pass the ball to him now.

paulie21

Rumours on Matthew Judon and Curtis Samuel. Though Samuels price might get too high seemingly

Speckydodge

Hoping Cam's influence may sway Samuel from there previous time at Carolina, all about the dollar though.

Speckydodge

Judon done too holy crap

paulie21

4 years 56 million

el Fenomeno

Jalen Mills also. 4 years, $24m.

paulie21

https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1371543308737073155?s=19

el Fenomeno

Get a WR, resign David Andrews and I'll be happy.

paulie21

Deatrich Wise returning

eagle eye

I don't know what they've seen in Agholor to pay him that money.
Why do you want a guy who can stretch the field when you don't have a QB that can get it there?

paulie21

Kendrick Bourne joining too, finally we have weapons. Need to find a QB in the draft

Speckydodge

eagle eye wrote:

I don't know what they've seen in Agholor to pay him that money. Why do you want a guy who can stretch the field when you don't have a QB that can get it there?

Really don't think they're done at QB tbh

el Fenomeno

No official figures yet but rough calcs have us at around $15m space left - that's a crude estimate and could be way off depending on how some of today's deals are structured.

Hopefully there's enough to bring Andrews back.

Hightower rumoured to be restructuring to free up 6 million. A Gilmore trade would free up the same amount.

Though I have to admit - if we lost Thuney, Andrews and and Gilmore, we're worse than we were last year.

D9Male

Agholor looked good last season. That said, he is pricey...

BizzyC

I like the signings so far, and the way the contracts are setup.

The big ones are front loaded, majority on the hook in the first 2 years.
If we can sign a decent rookie QB, these big contracts will be less of a burden in terms of dead cap a few years time when we hopefully have that younger long-term QB prospect that we need to pay.
We're making full use of the space we have right now, without selling out the team in 2024.

Jonnu Smith will be big though IMO, a TE who can move in space, catch screens, line up in the backfield.... he'll be like a more heavily targeted Hernandez.