Off licences and draconian closing times

suicide_circus

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The 1030 thing drives me feckin insane. I use wine in cooking loads (stews, pasta sauces etc) and if I have to go to the grocery store, I like to go straight after I've dropped Little Kiwi at school at 0900. If I find I need wine in whatever I'm making for dinner, I have to go back home and wait until feckin 1030! It's so annoying and inconvenient. What possible benefit to anyone is this rule? Has anyone, ever in the history of the world been cured of alcoholism or helped in anyway because they have to wait until 1030 to buy their booze? Will they change their mind about drinking that day simply because it's not available until 1030? If that's what the point is supposed to be, I actually don't know what is the point!

The point is

a) for the government to be seen to be taking a tough stance on problem drinking

b) to help out their pub owning lobby friends

endacl

buried wrote: »

You said "so people who work there can leave and get on with their lives", you make it sound like only one person was working in your old video shop. I don't think that's the case with many off-licences, where numbers of staff members work in shifts and can therefore "get on with their lives" anyway. Staff who work in pubs seem to manage it don't they?

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether one person or a crew of fifty worked there. Closing time is closing time. It's not their problem if somebody rocks up to the door at a minute past. They've put their day's work in and they're done.

buried

endacl wrote: »

Doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether one person or a crew of fifty worked there. Closing time is closing time. It's not their problem if somebody rocks up to the door at a minute past. They've put their day's work in and they're done.

Yeah and how do the pub staff manage the two extra hours past 10pm they have to work? Have they "no life" because of it? Your claiming the off-licence must shut at 10pm "to let people get on with their lives" so how do the pub staff manage it?

endacl

buried wrote: »

Yeah and how do the pub staff manage the two extra hours past 10pm they have to work? Have they "no life" because of it? Your claiming the off-licence must shut at 10pm "to let people get on with their lives" so how do the pub staff manage it?

They get paid for working those hours. Do you need pictures?

buried

endacl wrote: »

They get paid for working those hours. Do you need pictures?

And the off-licence staff wouldn't be getting paid if the opening hours were the same? lol come on man

endacl

buried wrote: »

And the off-licence staff wouldn't be getting paid if the opening hours were the same? lol come on man

OK. Go back and read the thread again. Take note of the post I responded to when I joined the thread. See if you can figure out the point I made. Come back to me then.

end of the road

thattequilagirl wrote: »

It's not that I strongly agree with it, I just don't understand why some people on here so strongly disagree with it. It's really not that hard to plan for it.

because it was brought in as an underhand tactic, in an aim to force people back into paying for over priced drink in the pubs.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Ireland has a very disfunctional relationship with alcohol.

very debatible, and even if it is the case personally i couldn't care a less if i'm honest. i don't have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, so i'm not going to be worried about others, thats their problem. in fact, its the restrictions and the nanny state nonsense toards alcohol that have caused the problems all along.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I don't know if the 10pm cutoff helps, but I'm 100% sure I would not like to see 24 hour off-licenses and I'd wager most A&E nurses and guards who work night shift would agree.

the 10pm cut off doesn't help one bit. in fact, the problems have increased since it was brought in as people cram more. 24 hour off licences and pubs are the best option and are really the only way we can change any supposed issues with alcohol in this country. we have tried severe restrictions and they don't work, time to try the opposite.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

The thinking here seems to be "I'm a decent ordinary person who just wants a few cans after work", and no doubt you are - but if you get your 24 hour off license, it will be available to all the scumbags who just want to cause trouble too.

its not the thinking at all, its fact for most. the scumbags who want to cause trouble are not stopped by the 10pm cut off. chances are they have stocked up enough to go on their drink fueled crime rampage all ready.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I presume the law is aimed at them.

the law is aimed at protecting the publicans.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Those were specific replies to a previous argument where someone said "There is no alternative to alcohol" amongst other things (a worrying statement in itself!)

not a worrying statement at all if you actually bothered to get what he meant.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Alcohol is a regulated substance for a reason

means nothing. the "reason" for over regulation doesn't stack up. making sure people under a certain age can't buy it (not that it stops them) is about the only regulation that has merrit to it.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

- you don't find people rocking up to A&E on a nightly basis with TV related injuries.

maybe it does happen.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

In theory, a bar man should cut you off when you've had enough, and serves you drinks in specific measures (as opposed to doing beer bongs at a house party)

It may pander to the publican, you're right, but it also serves a public health purpose.

heres the thing.
reality 1. there is no public healt purpose. the restrictions serve no public health purpose. the evidence proves it. the restrictions don't work. this is about protecting the publicans and thankfully that doesn't seem to be working anymore.
reality 2. maybe "beer bongs" (more then likely a few drinks) at a house party are what people want these days. they are not going back into the pubs. thats it. end of story.

Kiwi in IE

The most stupid thing about the 1030 weekdays and 1230 Sunday thing is that the supermarket is already open but can't sell alcohol! How does it help problem drinking to prevent sales before 1030 weekdays and 1230 Sunday? It just doesn't make a shread of sense. Alcohol should be able to be sold whenever pub/supermarket owners choose to be open.

Problem drinkers are going to problem drink regardless of when supermarkets sell alcohol.

buried

endacl wrote: »

OK. Go back and read the thread again. Take note of the post I responded to when I joined the thread. See if you can figure out the point I made. Come back to me then.

lol Good one. Why should I? I'm responding to the points you addressed to me and the point you made to me was "off licences must close at 10pm to let the staff get on with their lives"

rubadub

endacl wrote: »

Let's see. What else can't I buy 24/7...?

Tyres
Jeans
A goldfish
A spanner
Another spanner
A 180g vinyl copy of Exile on Main Street
A lawnmower
A sofa
A throw rug for the sofa
A washing machine
Oil paints
A fisheye lens for my camera


The list goes on. Where's my outrage? This sh1t's draconian!

How is it draconian? The word usually refers to draconian laws. Are you saying there are laws preventing you buying all those things?

If a pet shop owner turned up to work at 12.20pm on a sunday afternoon with gangs of people waiting to buy goldfish I expect he would serve them, even if he officially opens at 12.30.

If pet shops were forced to close during November and December to stop people buying unwanted pets as gifts then I expect there would be "outrage" from many people. That is only about 17% of the year. Offies face higher restrictions on when they can open.

I actually can easily buy some of the things you list 24/7. I have not heard anybody insisting that pubs or offies all remain open 24/7, there would not be the demand. Many want them to have the option, just like most other retailers.

Kiwi in IE

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I'm not pretending - this is a non-issue.

I'm not sure why you think having alcohol at home isn't healthy. My parents keep wine in the house, most of my friends would have a six pack of beer in the fridge.

I think your attitude of "I must have access to alcohol on the off-chance my weekend plans change at the last minute" is much more concerning.

I haven't had a drink in nearly two years, and it throws the Irish relationship with drink into sharp light when you go to house parties, nights out, weddings etc sober.

Anyone who doesn't have a problem should be able to enjoy the odd night out without a drink. I know lots of my friends do it from time to time if they're working the next day or have to drive.

I don't really drink either, but this stupid rule often interferes with my ability to buy all the groceries I need at a convenient time. Quite often after I have dropped my child at school, rather than go straight to the supermarket, I am forced to go back home and wait until 1030, then go back into town again just to get the wine I need to make feckin spaghetti bolagnaise. Never mind the high horse about other peoples drinking habits, it annoys me as a near non drinker too!

I live rurally just outside a town, I usually cook the dinner while my child is at school because often he has swimming, football, drama or is going to a mates house after school, so I sometimes have to make another trip into town just because of this stupid rule.

thattequilagirl

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I'm not pretending - this is a non-issue.

I'm not sure why you think having alcohol at home isn't healthy. My parents keep wine in the house, most of my friends would have a six pack of beer in the fridge.

I think your attitude of "I must have access to alcohol on the off-chance my weekend plans change at the last minute" is much more concerning.

I haven't had a drink in nearly two years, and it throws the Irish relationship with drink into sharp light when you go to house parties, nights out, weddings etc sober.

Anyone who doesn't have a problem should be able to enjoy the odd night out without a drink. I know lots of my friends do it from time to time if they're working the next day or have to drive.

I don't really drink either, but this stupid rule often interferes with my ability to buy all the groceries I need at a convenient time. Quite often after I have dropped my child at school, rather than go straight to the supermarket, I am forced to go back home and wait until 1030, then go back into town again just to get the wine I need to make feckin spaghetti bolagnaise. Never mind the high horse about other peoples drinking habits, it annoys me as a near non drinker too!

I live rurally just outside a town, I usually cook the dinner while my child is at school because often he has swimming, football, drama or is going to a mates house after school, so I sometimes have to make another trip into town just because of this stupid rule.

That's probably the most credible reply I've seen, that does seem inconvenient. It also seems like something that could fairly easily be planned ahead for though e.g buy for the week on a Saturday or Sunday.

I've no issue with people saying it's a bit annoying or inconvenient at times, as I said above it's the sense of having a 'right' to access alcohol constantly that bothers me.

Kiwi in IE

endacl wrote: »

Let's see. What else can't I buy 24/7...?

Tyres
Jeans
A goldfish
A spanner
Another spanner
A 180g vinyl copy of Exile on Main Street
A lawnmower
A sofa
A throw rug for the sofa
A washing machine
Oil paints
A fisheye lens for my camera


The list goes on. Where's my outrage? This sh1t's draconian!

I think the point here though, is more that if the 24/7 did sell any of these things that you listed, it wouldn't stop/start selling them at a particular time, while all other goods remained available and the store remained open for business. There would be no "Goldfish may only be sold between 1500 and 2100, if you happen to come in at any other time, you can buy anything else you that's available, but you are forbidden to buy a goldfish despite that there are goldfish on the premises".

Sheep Lover

endacl wrote: »

They get paid for working those hours. Do you need pictures?

Feck it anyway, everyone had forget that off licence staff do it out of the goodness of their hearts and receive no pay. Thanks for clearing that up.

Kiwi in IE

thattequilagirl wrote: »

That's probably the most credible reply I've seen, that does seem inconvenient. It also seems like something that could fairly easily be planned ahead for though e.g buy for the week on a Saturday or Sunday.

I've no issue with people saying it's a bit annoying or inconvenient at times, as I said above it's the sense of having a 'right' to access alcohol constantly that bothers me.

I work part time shift work. Saturday's and Sunday's don't always count for me. And anyway it's worse again on Sunday, when it becomes 1230 and Rugby practice finishes at 1145!

end of the road

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I feel the same about banks not opening on a Sunday, but I just have to adapt and go when they are open. C'est la vie

irrelevant argument. banks choose not to open on a sunday. in reality, you have brought no argument to support the restrictions to this thread.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Or maybe just giving an opinion that others don't like.

your giving an opinion on the basis of nothing just because people know the opinion has no basis? yet you claim the issue doesn't bother you? personally i think the issue of people wanting opening hours extended or such businesses being able to choose their own opening hours does bother you and you don't want it, yet you can't give a reason why it shouldn't be the case.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Off licenses are open 92 hours a week in this country, how many hours do you think they should be open? 100? 120? 168? 4

as many as they feel there is demand for. its their business, they should be able to open when they feel its best.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Why aren't banks open longer? Swimming pools? Government offices?

they make a business decisian not to. as is their choice.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

People like going for a jog on a Sunday, but they usually buy their runners and shorts before they go.

another non argument. keep the non arguments coming.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Life isn't to a schedule, I totally agree, but all aspects of our adult life we have to think ahead, and it's dishonest, no, dangerous, to believe our interaction with alcohol should be any different.

the only thing that is "believed" here is that anti-competitive protectionist restrictions should be abolished.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

To be perfectly honest, the hours the off licenses are open doesn't bother me at all, and yes they could be open longer, it's the attitudes of those annoyed at their closure that is a bigger problem in my opinion, an attitude that would exist even with 24 hour licensing laws.

an attitude that is in your head only.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What's wrong with the attitude that people have enough time to buy drink during the hours they are currently open?

1. those who believe such don't, nor can't put forward an argument as to why it is enough or why such opening and closing hour restrictions should be in place..
2. those of such opinion can't provide any evidence of any purpose that it might serve (granted there is none)

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I also think pubs should have far more restrictive opening hours and heavily punitive repercussions for landlords and barstaff serving drunk people, but that's a story for another day.

actually its not, its very relevant. why do you believe either of these should happen. why should landlords and bar staff be punished for serving something that someone wants, and why should pubs be even more restricted in terms of opening hours dispite the fact that
1. the restrictions would serve no purpose and would not cause consumption to fall but to possibly rise.
2. the price of drink everywhere else would rise to compensate the vintners.

end of the road

screamer wrote: »

I think the emergency services have enough crap to deal with without having 24 hour access to purchase alcohol. Other shops pharmacies banks and businesses which are far more useful and needed than booze close at certain times and we all accept it and work around it. Time for a big spoon of grow up I think........

not time for a big spoon of grow up at all, as everyone here against these anti-competitive blatent protectionist restrictions either drink little or not at all.

buried wrote: »

Where's this "24 hour" argument coming from? Surely the opening hours should be the same as the pub opening hours, not the "24 hours" some are using here for whatever reason

that would be the next step after returning the opening hours for offlicences to being the same as the pubs. some are saying just take the step and go 24 hours and be done with it.

Azalea wrote: »

If they just want to drink, they can buy ahead.

But if they want to head out to the pub for the social aspect, it's crap that they don't have the option when they're not religious. One year my friend wanted to have her going-away party in Dublin city centre on the date good Friday was - for her it was about getting together with friends, not drinking (seeing as she was nearly six months pregnant) but she couldn't because of the church and she's not even religious, nor are most of her friends. It's nonsense

People like to pretend "Oh they can't cope for one day without drink" but that's actually missing the point massively.

i'm not sure they pretend, but either believe it or know they haven't got an argument so just make out people are alcoholics for opposing the restrictions.

endacl wrote: »

Let's see. What else can't I buy 24/7...?

Tyres
Jeans
A goldfish
A spanner
Another spanner
A 180g vinyl copy of Exile on Main Street
A lawnmower
A sofa
A throw rug for the sofa
A washing machine
Oil paints
A fisheye lens for my camera


The list goes on. Where's my outrage? This sh1t's draconian!

places which all make a business decisian not to open, and which aren't told you can't open because the government want to protect other businesses. try again.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

So you don't think 24 hour access to alcohol would increase pressure on our already buckling A&Es?

it might, but eventually it would settle down. personally i'm willing to take the risk. restrictions aren't working, trying the opposite might.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I think it's massively optimistic (naive?) of you to think that extending opening hours would reduce binge drinking.

well, the restrictions certainly aren't doing it, but likely increasing it.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I think your attitude of "I must have access to alcohol on the off-chance my weekend plans change at the last minute" is much more concerning.

its not one bit concerning. he's a responsible adult who wants to be able to have the choice of buying alcohol at his convenience. if restrictions are removed as they should be and the off licence decides to close whenever that is a business decisian for themselves.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I haven't had a drink in nearly two years, and it throws the Irish relationship with drink into sharp light when you go to house parties, nights out, weddings etc sober.

no no, the "irish" relationship with drink is not really something that exists. some have a bad relationship with drink but thats their problem, not mine. i don't drink either.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't have a problem should be able to enjoy the odd night out without a drink. I know lots of my friends do it from time to time if they're working the next day or have to drive.

plenty of people who don't have a problem with drink like the odd night out with drink, and don't go out any other time. they also wish to be able to buy drink at their own convenience unless the off licences and shops make a business decisian to close before those people may get a chance to get to them.

Azalea

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I've no issue with people saying it's a bit annoying or inconvenient at times, as I said above it's the sense of having a 'right' to access alcohol constantly that bothers me.

Well people have a "right" to very few things - is that more your interpretation of people's objection than the reality?

People get annoyed about it at weekends because pubs can stay open so much later no problem with people getting served to the point of puking (I know they're responsible for themselves too but there's a line) - it couldn't be more obvious that it's for the (well connected and often politically involved) pub owners.

The insistence that 10pm closing is just the way it is and if we were adults we would accept it is naive beyond belief. 24-hour off licences is too much the other extreme though - I don't think it would pay them to hire staff and security (which would be badly needed!) for those hours. 1am seems like enough of a limit (in my opinion). Although maybe if 24-hour petrol stations and supermarkets sold drink.

smurgen

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The 10PM closing time is moronic and leads to worse binge drinking. People buy way more than they actually need "just in case" and end up overdoing it.

People should just stock up.you can buy drink almost everywhere now.have some stored away just in case.

Kiwi in IE

If it's about problem drinking then why are the times different according to days of the week? Monday to Saturday you can buy alcohol from 1030, but on Sunday it's 1230. If you start drinking at 1100 on a Sunday, are you a problem drinker, but if you do it at the same time in Monday that's OK?

Azalea

smurgen wrote: »

People should just stock up.you can buy drink almost everywhere now.have some stored away just in case.

It's been covered. People don't always have drink stockpiled and plans can change on a Friday/Saturday night. People just want a bit more flexibility.

People's comparison with clothes shops etc is particularly stupid when you consider they close based on the market, off licences - despite being private enterprises - close according to government rules.

syklops

endacl wrote: »

Let's see. What else can't I buy 24/7...?

Tyres
Jeans
A goldfish
A spanner
Another spanner
A 180g vinyl copy of Exile on Main Street
A lawnmower
A sofa
A throw rug for the sofa
A washing machine
Oil paints
A fisheye lens for my camera


The list goes on. Where's my outrage? This sh1t's draconian!

Another pathetic poorly informed argument possibly put together for thanks and nothing else. The record and the sofa you can't buy at 3am. All the others you can.

Iwasfrozen

There should be no closing time for off licenses. I don't know why people feel the need to support economic protectionism for pubs. If they can't compete they should go out of business.

syklops

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't know why people feel the need to support economic protectionism for pubs.

Maybe because a lot of the people supporting it are the sons and daughters of publicans, if not publicans themselves.

More than one person who has weighed in in favour of the 10pm closing time doesn't drink and so it doesnt affect them.

EazyD

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There should be no closing time for off licenses. I don't know why people feel the need to support economic protectionism for pubs. If they can't compete they should go out of business.

I don't go to pubs primarily for this reason. It's not that I can't afford to pay for a few pints, it's the principle of paying in excess of 60-70% additional cost of the retail price to have it served to me in a glass. I'd always expect it to be more expensive anyway but at that level it's nothing more than gouging.

Kiwi in IE

It's a stupid law. Places of business should be free to open/close whenever they choose and have the full range of products they stock available to customers during these times. Law makes no sense. Law does not stop problem drinking obviously, because law exists and problem drinking remains rampant.

Iwasfrozen

syklops wrote: »

Maybe because a lot of the people supporting it are the sons and daughters of publicans, if not publicans themselves.

More than one person who has weighed in in favour of the 10pm closing time doesn't drink and so it doesnt affect them.

I barely drink either but I can't stand protectionism.

K-9

endacl wrote: »

Let's see. What else can't I buy 24/7...?

Tyres
Jeans
A goldfish
A spanner
Another spanner
A 180g vinyl copy of Exile on Main Street
A lawnmower
A sofa
A throw rug for the sofa
A washing machine
Oil paints
A fisheye lens for my camera


The list goes on. Where's my outrage? This sh1t's draconian!

Definition of a 1st world problem.

Azalea

syklops wrote: »

Another pathetic poorly informed argument possibly put together for thanks and nothing else. The record and the sofa you can't buy at 3am. All the others you can.

Speak for yourself! I think I should be able to buy a six-pack of couches at 10pm on a Saturday night when a night out is cancelled and a friend is calling over! :mad:

(It's a bit dismaying when intelligent people resort to utter shyte in order to argue back instead of just admitting the counter-argument makes a fair point).

syklops

Azalea wrote: »

Speak for yourself! I think I should be able to buy a six-pack of couches at 10pm on a Saturday night when a night out is cancelled and a friend is calling over! :mad:

Tesco has a number of shops which are open 24 hours a day. They sell clothes, tools, groceries. They don't sell sofas or goldfish. I don't know why, I suggest you contact them and take your gripe up with them. In a tesco 24 hour supermarket, I can buy jeans or a spanner or even a lawnmower in some of their shops, but at 10pm they have to cordon off the alcohol and forbid its sale.

(It's a bit dismaying when intelligent people resort to utter shyte in order to argue back instead of just admitting the counter-argument makes a fair point).

I absolutely agree with you but I think your dismay whether it is real or not, of about being unable to buy a sofa at 10pm on a Saturday is utter shyte and in no way makes a fair point.