Transgender women stoned in Germany

Annasopra

Is there a point to this discussion?

I've read through it in it's entirety and I have no idea what it's about at all as it seems to meander all over the place. Trans rights. Muslim bashing. AH. Analysis of Jewish press. False dichotomy of LGBT v Islam. European political systems. Left v Right. LGBT voting patterns. Human rights and culture. Absolutism of views. Defence of free speech. Marriage and consent laws. Industrial relations and workers rights.

Whosthis

mansize wrote: »

You agree it's a insult.., but then it's innocuous

I will locate the other but we do agree it's a insulting term

I have already explained its innocuous origin, I have already explained that it is now used in the context of describing somebody that is overly dramatic and would be deemed an insult. You maintain it is homophobic so instead of changing the goal posts, show me some proof.

weisses

mansize wrote: »

It's not on my to do list - however legal in Ireland with parents concent at 16...

That will be 18

mansize

weisses wrote: »

That will be 18

But currently 16

PC Lackey

mansize wrote: »

Walking around Dublin as a Gay couple ain't no cake walk either - naive if you think it is.


No one wears a bin bag

Yeah I'd take the odd insult over a noose and cheering crowd all the same.

Whosthis

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is there a point to this discussion?

I've read through it in it's entirety and I have no idea what it's about at all as it seems to meander all over the place. Trans rights. Muslim bashing. AH. Analysis of Jewish press. False dichotomy of LGBT v Islam. European political systems. Left v Right. LGBT voting patterns. Human rights and culture. Absolutism of views. Defence of free speech. Marriage and consent laws. Industrial relations and workers rights.

That's about the sum of it, at least nobody can accuse us of discrimination.

mansize

Whosthis wrote: »

I have already explained its innocuous origin, I have already explained that it is now used in the context of describing somebody that is overly dramatic and would be deemed an insult. You maintain it is homophobic so instead of changing the goal posts, show me some proof.

So it's an insult- why acceptable on boards then???

mansize

PC Lackey wrote: »

Yeah I'd take the odd insult over a noose and cheering crowd all the same.

I live in a Republic which promotes equality - including immigrants

Whosthis

mansize wrote: »

So it's an insult- why acceptable on boards then???

I'm not willing to engage any further with you unless you're willing to back up your initial statement that its a gay slur.

mansize

Whosthis wrote: »

I'm not willing to engage any further with you unless you're willing to back up your initial statement that its a gay slur.

You are just annoyed you've accepted it's insulting

PC Lackey

mansize wrote: »

I live in a Republic which promotes equality - including immigrants

And that will make a difference.

MysticalRain

SeanW wrote: »

Depends on how you define "right-wingers." If you're talking about sub-human cretins like Combat 18, the BNP, then yes, they probably do. But I suspect your definition of "right-wingers" includes people who anyone who does not agree with multiculturalism and mass immigration, which is a much broader group.

And there lies the problem for the left these days - not everyone who criticises unrestricted immigration and the very real problems that has resulted from it is a hardcore right-wing nut-job. In fact the vast majority are nothing of the sort. Many of us, like myself, are actually liberals living in the real world who know full well what happens to our cherished liberal values when you let in hoards of people from cultures who have little or no respect for women's rights or the right of an LGBT person to walk down a street unmolested. Anyone with a basic grasp of history knows this does not end well, and no amount of arguing semantics, whataboutery, or ad hominen attacks against people who disagree with them is going to change that.

As someone already pointed out, liberals defending conservative ideologies like Islam and arguing in favour of mass immigration of mostly young conservative males from Islamic countries is the equivalent of sawing off the political branch they are sitting on. It is ultimately going to result in a severe backlash against left-wing political parties and pave the way for the real right-wing nutjobs to take their place instead.

22catch

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is there a point to this discussion?

I've read through it in it's entirety and I have no idea what it's about at all as it seems to meander all over the place. Trans rights. Muslim bashing. AH. Analysis of Jewish press. False dichotomy of LGBT v Islam. European political systems. Left v Right. LGBT voting patterns. Human rights and culture. Absolutism of views. Defence of free speech. Marriage and consent laws. Industrial relations and workers rights.

I think it's very clear what the point is. Transgender women were assaulted by Muslim men, in yet another Muslim attack on Europeans. People are worried about the impact of having millions of strangers who practice an extremely violent oppressive religion that is particularly biased against and oppressive of women, homosexuals and lgbt people.

melissak

Eugene Norman wrote: »

And illegal in most of the rest, life imprisonment in some. I'm counting about ten countries where homosexuality is punishable by death. Except for Uganda it seems a Muslim thing (in some cases the law applies to Muslims only - if sharia law runs parallel).

Compare that with gay marriage. It's legit enough to point out that Islam as it now is practiced is incompatible with liberality.

The Jerusalem post is a propoganda paper for sure but unless you are arguing this is a total fabrication it's a legit topic.

How is any belief incomparable with liberality. Belief as long as it doesnt translate to action harms noone. What does liberal mean to you?. They can believe whatever they feel like believing. As can gays. As can we all. We don't have to like each other or approve of each other to coexist peacefully.

Azalea

mansize wrote: »

You are just annoyed you've accepted it's insulting

I don't see either how "drama queen" is an anti gay slur. I use the term just in relation to people who are being melodramatic about trivial stuff - whether male, female, gay or straight. Never *because* of being gay. And that's the only way I hear other people using the term also.

weisses

mansize wrote: »

But currently 16

Nope

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

mansize

weisses wrote: »

Nope

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

Court exemption order says yes

mansize

Azalea wrote: »

I don't see either how "drama queen" is an anti gay slur. I use the term just in relation to people who are being melodramatic about trivial stuff - whether male, female, gay or straight. Never *because* of being gay. And that's the only way I hear other people using the term also.

it- it's an insulting term as proven above - if I was called it I'd consider it a gay slur as I am male

melissak

Azalea wrote: »

I don't see either how "drama queen" is an anti gay slur. I use the term just in relation to people who are being melodramatic about trivial stuff - whether male, female, gay or straight. Never *because* of being gay. And that's the only way I hear other people using the term also.

I have been called a drama queen and i am not gay. I told my father he was being a drama queen a couple of weeks ago. He is not gay either.

mansize

melissak wrote: »

I have been called a drama queen and i am not gay. I told my father he was being a drama queen a couple of weeks ago. He is not gay either.

Lovely anicdote

Azalea

MysticalRain wrote: »

And there lies the problem for the left these days - not everyone who criticises unrestricted immigration and the very real problems that has resulted from it is a hardcore right-wing nut-job. In fact the vast majority are nothing of the sort. Many of us, like myself, are actually liberals living in the real world who know full well what happens to our cherished liberal values when you let in hoards of people from cultures who have little or no respect for women's rights or the right of an LGBT person to walk down a street unmolested. Anyone with a basic grasp of history knows this does not end well, and no amount of arguing semantics, whataboutery, or ad hominen attacks against people who disagree with them is going to change that.

As someone already pointed out, liberals defending conservative ideologies like Islam and arguing in favour of mass immigration of mostly young conservative males from Islamic countries is the equivalent of sawing off the political branch they are sitting on. It is ultimately going to result in a severe backlash against left-wing political parties and pave the way for the real right-wing nutjobs to take their place instead.

I would occupy where you do, pretty much, but I still hate the idea of not extending help to people who are fleeing islamic state, the people who are their targets - and I find the concern for those victims while at the same time wanting a barrier put up to them, to be very disingenuous. And calling people who are obviously in a bad way economic migrants without knowing their full story.

What also seems to be disingenuous is the sudden concern of *some* here in relation to transgender people. A poster earlier nailed it (although was a bit blanket-blaming): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98449168&postcount=188

weisses

mansize wrote: »

Court exemption order says yes

That is different then parents consent ...As you claimed initially

mansize

weisses wrote: »

That is different then parents consent ...As you claimed initially

You need parental consent for the order

Azalea

mansize wrote: »

it- it's an insulting term as proven above - if I was called it I'd consider it a gay slur as I am male

It is an insulting term but it's not an exclusively anti gay term (in fact I've never heard it used to insult gay people) like "fagg*t".

Calling a man a drama queen is like calling him a bitch - being whingey and OTT, there aren't necessarily homophobic connotations, unless a person interprets them that way.

mansize

Azalea wrote: »

It is an insulting term but it's not an exclusively anti gay term (in fact I've never heard it used to insult gay people) like "fagg*t".

Calling a man a drama queen is like calling him a bitch - being whingey and OTT, there aren't necessarily homophobic connotations, unless a person interprets them that way.

I never said exclusively anti gay tbf

Whosthis

mansize wrote: »

Drama Queen is a Gay slur - employment law backs me up on that

The Term Feminazi is thrown around far too loosely - Its very derogatory

mansize wrote: »

I never said exclusively anti gay tbf

The problem with changing your stance midway through an argument on a forum is that your original argument still exists.

mansize

Whosthis wrote: »

The problem with changing your stance midway through an argument on a forum is that your original argument still exists.

Where's exclusively???

I believe it's a gay slur - it is certainly an insult

Asaiah

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I'm not talking about the past. Today in Irish schools being gay is a reason to be bullied/beaten up.

Violence by Westerners against the LGBT community is not a thing of the past.

Today in Irish schools children get bullied for anything and everything. Kids can be cruel and it's nothing to do with the LGBT 'community' if such community even exists outside of outrage echo chambers like twitter.

LGBT people don't own victim-hood, we all get bullied. Being bullied for being gay is no worse than being bullied for being overweight, or small, or red headed, or any other difference that bullies focus on, it's part of the trials of life. Some people fight back, some people don't, some people just get on with their lives and leave the bigots in the past.

These are issues that we are dealing with as a society and we are getting better and better at it. Importing millions of young men who are brainwashed into an ideology of pure hatred for their fellow humans is not the answer to any problem.

It is the so called liberal left that is hellbent on creating more and more victims, not the right.

melissak

mansize wrote: »

Lovely anicdote

Thank you.

weisses

mansize wrote: »

You need parental consent for the order

Can you get married at 16 with parental consent as you claimed ?

Nodin

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

May I ask in which country you live and how many refugees you have come into contact with in the last 6 months???

I, Sir, am a Citizen Of The World.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

On another note....what would you do/say if your neighbour..
was beating his wife??
dealing drugs infront of the house??
stealing from your clothes line??
cheating the dole/social system??

Wink or a nod and "Howye" usually.

Eugene Norman wrote:

You've pretty much proven that, at least to you, that can't be done

O it can yeah. The problem is when you've people who've previously been going on about their racial theories, or regurgitating stuff from the usual suspects in the states trying to let on they've some "genuine concerns" when in fact its the same aul "keep them out" they've been going on with since whenever.

mansize

weisses wrote: »

Can you get married at 16 with parental consent as you claimed ?

Yes with a court order-it's not illegal

Azalea

Asaiah wrote: »

Today in Irish schools children get bullied for anything and everything. Kids can be cruel and it's nothing to do with the LGBT 'community' if such community even exists outside of outrage echo chambers like twitter.

LGBT people don't own victim-hood, we all get bullied. Being bullied for being gay is no worse than being bullied for being overweight, or small, or red headed, or any other difference that bullies focus on, it's part of the trials of life. Some people fight back, some people don't, some people just get on with their lives and leave the bigots in the past.

This belittling of what some gay people have to go through is really unfair. Up to 1993 it was a crime to be gay in this country. It was never a crime to have red hair or to be short. If you are fat you can do something about it.
No I'm not saying Ireland is a homophobic society - it's far from it, things have come on brilliantly since 1993. But a person's sexuality is a huge part of what defines them, and to compare this to having red hair is missing the bigger picture.

weisses

mansize wrote: »

Yes with a court order-it's not illegal

That is not what you claimed earlier ... Nice try

You should check how the Irish situation differs from th Pakistani one

Asaiah

Azalea wrote: »

This belittling of what some gay people have to go through is really unfair. Up to 1993 it was a crime to be gay in this country. It was never a crime to have red hair or to be short. If you are fat you can do something about it.
No I'm not saying Ireland is a homophobic society - it's far from it, things have come on brilliantly since 1993. But a person's sexuality is a huge part of what defines them, and to compare this to having red hair is missing the bigger picture.

Hang on a second I am not belittling what some gay people go through, I am saying ALL people go through bullying at some stage and it's just as bad for everbody.

Are you saying that a kid being bullied because they are gay is worse than another kid being bullied because of something other reason, such as being over weight or smaller than the others? Because I am saying they are as bad as each other.

Do you disagree with this?

mansize

weisses wrote: »

That is not what you claimed earlier ... Nice try

You should check how the Irish situation differs from th Pakistani one

What? I said 16 - is the minimum age that's correct- I didn't list being unmarried either - should I have???

16 is the youngest age one can marry in Ireland - that a fact

Azalea

Asaiah wrote: »

Hang on a second I am not belittling what some gay people go through, I am saying ALL people go through bullying at some stage and it's just as bad for everbody.

Are you saying that a kid being bullied because they are gay is worse than another kid being bullied because of something else? Because I am saying they are as bad as each other.

Do you disagree with this?

All people don't go through bullying at some stage, and yes, I do think gay people are likely to get it worse than e.g. red-haired people. The worst thing you could be in a boys' (or mixed) school up to not that long ago was a "fagg*t". As for being a lesbian in a girls' school... Christ, bye-bye life. The one time a girl was outed in my school (the year after I left) her life was turned into utter torture.

The_Kew_Tour

K-9 wrote: »

Nice Godwin.

If you can't see the Jerusalem post might be a biased source, fine.

Go back to trusting videos on facebook or wherever or alternative media as telling the truth.

I'll try and be consistent in my skepticism.

Well I have been to places like Tehran, Islamabad, Palestine and Congo and trust me I have seen more you can ever imagine.

You just don't realise or want to realise the scale of horrific murder, rape that goes on daily basis.

You wanna stick to facts good. Sweden has 2nd highest rape statistics in the world behind South Africa. How ya like that

weisses

mansize wrote: »

What? I said 16 - is the minimum age that's correct- I didn't list being unmarried either - should I have???

16 is the youngest age one can marry in Ireland - that a fact

No you said with parental consent .. Which is not true ... Courts can easily decide no, no matter what parents want

The_Kew_Tour

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Care to share some of these articles ?

Something tells me your claim the Jerusalem Post isn't concerned about Muslims in that article but rather concerned about the welfare of the every day German homosexuals and transgender people enough to post news of every day attacks is non too factual.

But you seem to have have articles from the Jerusalem Post on just that very subject. So please do share.

Well you don't have look far. Today alone they have headlines about 3 Jews who are going on trial for Stoning Muslims.

Amazing eh

melissak

Azalea wrote: »

All people don't go through bullying at some stage, and yes, I do think gay people are likely to get it worse than e.g. red-haired people. The worst thing you could be in a boys' (or mixed) school up to not that long ago was a "fagg*t". As for being a lesbian in a girls' school... Christ, bye-bye life. The one time a girl was outed in my school (the year after I left) her life was turned into utter torture.

I don't think so now. Teenagers I've met seem very open regarding homosexuality. I think a lot of them are more tolerant in general.

Azalea

melissak wrote: »

I don't think so now. Teenagers I've met seem very open regarding homosexuality. I think a lot of them are more tolerant in general.

I agree, but only 15-20 years ago (when I were a young 'un) it wasn't the case unfortunately. And it was much worse again 10 years before that, and so on.

mansize

melissak wrote: »

I don't think so now. Teenagers I've met seem very open regarding homosexuality. I think a lot of them are more tolerant in general.

Teenage girls, boys still get the gay taunt and slur

Annasopra

22catch wrote: »

I think it's very clear what the point is. Transgender women were assaulted by Muslim men, in yet another Muslim attack on Europeans. People are worried about the impact of having millions of strangers who practice an extremely violent oppressive religion that is particularly biased against and oppressive of women, homosexuals and lgbt people.

I see. It's a sudden interest in LGBT rights and womens rights from a lot of people who never cared about us at all.

mansize

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I see. It's a sudden interest in LGBT rights and womens rights from a lot of people who never cared about them at all.

And homelessness don't forget their new found concern for the homeless

melissak

Azalea wrote: »

I agree, but only 15-20 years ago (when I were a young 'un) it wasn't the case unfortunately. And it was much worse again 10 years before that, and so on.

I know. That's the way of it. People disapprove of things they fear. A bit of openness about it, people realise there was nothing to fear, people become accepting and are embarrassed about their judgementalness

Asaiah

Azalea wrote: »

All people don't go through bullying at some stage, and yes, I do think gay people are likely to get it worse than e.g. red-haired people. The worst thing you could be in a boys' (or mixed) school up to not that long ago was a "fagg*t". As for being a lesbian in a girls' school... Christ, bye-bye life. The one time a girl was outed in my school (the year after I left) her life was turned into utter torture.

I am sorry but this idea that a gay person getting bullied suffers more than anyone else who has to go through the torture of getting bullied is just plain wrong.

This hierarchy of victims pisses me off no end. We are all human, we are all the same flesh and blood. Suffering at the hands of society for simply being who you are is still suffering regardless of sexuality.

I have seen people lives made hell in my school years by bullies and I've stood up for them when I could and even got into physical fights defending them on occasion. They were being bullied for different reasons and the effects on their lives depended on how they dealt with it. I've seen kids and teens cornered and battered for having a stutter, for being over weight, for having acne and the list goes on and on.

It's just as bad for them all, gay or straight.

Severard

Azalea wrote: »

I would occupy where you do, pretty much, but I still hate the idea of not extending help to people who are fleeing islamic state, the people who are their targets - and I find the concern for those victims while at the same time wanting a barrier put up to them, to be very disingenuous. And calling people who are obviously in a bad way economic migrants without knowing their full story.

Help should be extended to people who are fleeing the Islamic State, but only to those who are genuinely fleeing the Syrian conflict. The majority of those crossing into Europe are not Syrian with only 21% coming from the country[1]. At certain points that could be more or it could be less but I have yet to find a statistic to show it go over that by more than a few percentage points. The illegal immigrants are making it difficult not just for Europeans but the Syrians who are in desperate need as well.

Also letting them into the continent isn't the only way that they can be helped. Financial aid could be provided to neighboring countries that surround Syria. In 2015 for Germany alone it is estimated that accepting all of the Refugees and immigrants will cost Germany €21.1 billion [2]. This money could easily be spent on helping a country like Jordan to help the Syrians.

Doing this would have several benefits, such as:

A) People will not die trying to get to Europe.

Terrorists won't be able to exploit the crisis to attack Europe again. Another terrorist attack will definitely even further stigmatize Muslims and probably guarantee Donald Trump will be the next U.S. president because it will vindicate what he is saying all along.

C) Illegal immigrants who have nothing to do with Syria won't make it into Europe as easily.

D) Right-wing groups won't capitalize on the issue. Just look at the Austrian Freedom Party in Austria[3], The National Front in France[4], UKIP in the United Kingdom[5], the Law and Justice Party in Poland [6], the Sweden Democrats in Sweden [7]. Even in the U.S. Donald Trump is making the most of this issue. He wouldn't be in the lead in the Republican race (he wouldn't even be in the damn race itself) if it weren't for the timid response to this issue from people like Barack Obama and European leaders.

All of these European parties have made gains in recent elections as a result of this issue. Although The National Front ended up not achieving much but that was because the Socialists and Republicans cooperated together and as for UKIP it failed to make a significant impact, but that was due to the voting system in the UK. Yet the sentiment was still there - people are sick to death of the mainstream parties and want someone to do something about it instead of paying lip service.

Lastly by having such large numbers of refugees and immigrants come into Europe will inevitable create tensions. As a result there will be a backlash - non-Europeans are being attacked, refugee centers are being vandalized, etc... And this is exactly what groups like the Islamic State want. For Muslims to be attacked in Europe so as to give the feeling of not being wanted and therefore being more susceptible to agreeing with their twisted ideology.

I want to see the Syrian people helped too, but doing what Europe is currently doing now is a recipe for disaster. I would say that I'm fearful of what the next five years will be like if right-wing parties gain influence in Europe and what the consequences will be but that's already happening and the left-wing parties and mainstream media have their heads in the sand on this and are clueless on what to do.

[1] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6996925/3-18092015-BP-EN.pdf/b0377f79-f06d-4263-aa5b-cc9b4f6a838f

[2] http://www.euractiv.com/sections/global-europe/german-economic-research-institute-doubles-cost-estimate-refugee-crisis

[3] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/11896406/Austrias-Right-wing-populist-party-makes-huge-gains-fuelled-by-migrant-crisis-fears.html

[4] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35088276

[5] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11591313/Ukip-has-done-brilliantly.-And-totally-failed.-How-can-that-be.html

[6] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/27/poland-law-justice-party-wins-235-seats-can-govern-alone

[7] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/swedish-asylum-support-far-right-nationalist-sweden-democrats

melissak

Asaiah wrote: »

I am sorry but this idea that a gay person getting bullied suffers more than anyone else who has to go through the torture of getting bullied is just plain wrong.

This hierarchy of victims pisses me off no end. We are all human, we are all the same flesh and blood. Suffering at the hands of society for simply being who you are is still suffering regardless of sexuality.

I have seen people lives made hell in my school years by bullies and I've stood up for them when I could and even got into physical fights defending them on occasion. They were being bullied for different reasons and the effects on their lives depended on how they dealt with it. I've seen kids and teens cornered and battered for having a stutter, for being over weight, for having acne and the list goes on and on.

It's just as bad for them all, gay or straight.

"Doth not a heterosexual bleed....."
..

Thelomen Toblackai

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well you don't have look far. Today alone they have headlines about 3 Jews who are going on trial for Stoning Muslims.

Amazing eh

So that'd be another no then. You have nothing to back up your claim the Jerusalem Post is posting content purely concerned with the every day safety of people in Germany.

It's ok you can admit you lied and pretended they weren't posting it because it was a negative story about Muslims. We'll know you're full of shít (tbh we know that already) but at least we'll know you're not completely blind.