NASRPC's exit of the Sport Coalition.

garrettod

NicholasF wrote: »

We are all very busy at this time of year; really, that is not a reason

But remember the constitution is the constitution and if 4 clubs request an EGM
Then it does not matter if one or two members of the committee are away, the meeting will be held 30 days after the request. ...

While we disagree about whether or not the suggestions I made are possibly genuine reasons or not, I have no reason to argue the point so won't bother....

The other point I made stands on it's own - if there are more than two clubs which have formally called for an EGM, lets hear from them publically. I don't see any reason why there would be confussion over how many clubs have sought an EGM. Would you agree ?

LB6

There have been two information days, one at Hilltop and another at Harbour House. Then at beginning of November there was another open meeting in Abbeyleix. Plenty of opportunity to have got your answers then if you had turned up.

next meeting is AGM on 16th January. Are you going to be there? How many opportunities are you going to pass up to get the answers you want?

habitformin

LB6 wrote: »

There have been two information days, one at Hilltop and another at Harbour House. Then at beginning of November there was another open meeting in Abbeyleix. Plenty of opportunity to have got your answers then if you had turned up.

next meeting is AGM on 16th January. Are you going to be there? How many opportunities are you going to pass up to get the answers you

I want the committee of the NASRPC to make a public statement clarifying the reasons for leaving the sports coalition .I want to know why an affiliated club was refused affiliation , a real reason .and I do not want to wait until January. This is bad for shooting all over the shop .this split from the sports coalition is wrong . Egos have been bruised I get it but that has to be put aside now before this gets out of hand. The committee has to address this this month not next year.

LB6

Again these were dealt with at the info day in Abbeyleix. You're just going to have to go to the meetings in future.

At the moment you sound like someone spitting the dummy. They've answered the questions. Next opportunity will be the AGM to get your answers.

habitformin

It looks a lot like the NASRPC committee actually has something to hide.?I don't want to believe this so why not come out and address this ? Could it be that they for some reason are stalling or just out of answers.clarity is needed .

habitformin

LB6 wrote: »

Again these were dealt with at the info day in Abbeyleix. You're just going to have to go to the meetings in future.

At the moment you sound like someone spitting the dummy. They've answered the questions. Next opportunity will be the AGM to get your answers.

LB 6 with the greatest of respect to you .this is completely unacceptable.
Don't you realise how much of a split is happening or do you simply not care? I think the committee owe shooters more than this.its a complete disregard for the concerns of the shooters they profess to represent.

badaj0z

The NASRPC committee fell out with the Sports Coalition

Many of the clubs who were/are affiliated were unhappy with this.

A meeting was held in Hilltop club, which was attended by many of these clubs and the committee. The outcome of this meeting was that the committee agreed to go back to the SC "to make it up".

They did not do this and instead resigned from the SC

The clubs were clearly upset by this dishonourable behaviourand had a meeting which resolved to call for an EGM to change the committee
.
Now the numbers:
the current list of affiliated clubs on the NASRPC website is 19.Remove the 4 no longer in existence(I just found out that another club is added to the “gone” list), leaves 15.
Of these 8 are for an EGM, 2 are likely to support the EGM call,2 are deciding and 3 are not likely to support the call.

This adds up to 10 for an EGM, 3 against and 2 not sure.

Whatever way you look at it, the majority of clubs want the EGM

The committee have decided to break with established practice and disenfranchise the clubs who have not paid yet this year. This is because these clubs want an EGM. The version of the constitution on the web site says that the committee will invoice each year. They have not done so this year. The version of the constitution used by the committee says that clubs have to pay within a month of the AGM, i.e. Last April. If they get away with this then the numbers are as follows;

Starting with 19 listed clubs, remove 4 no longer in existence, leaves 15
5 of these cannot vote, leaves 10 of which 4 have already written asking for the EGM and 2 are likely to write. 3 clubs are against the EGM and 1 is deciding.
This means that as at least 4 have asked for an EGM then it has to be called(4 out of 10, i.e. more than one third). At the EGM votes for removing the committee will be 4 plus 2 plus any of the undecided. This is a majority .
6 out of 10)
Now for the really interesting part. The constitution says that Voting at an EGM is by the clubs, one vote for each club but voting at an AGM is by members of affiliated clubs who are present. So in hoping to last to an AGM, the committee is hoping that by organising the meeting close to the clubs which support them, both Leinster based and whose members make up the majority of the committee, they can swing things in their favour.
If this succeeds then the inevitable outcome is a breakaway by between 10 and 12 clubs leaving 3 to 5 in the rump. The new organisation, which would then represent a large majority of the Target clubs would then seek to displace the NASRPC from those bodies on which it no longer represented the majority of target shooters in this country. Not good for the sport in general and even less good for the shooters who no longer had any National level representation.

habitformin

All that is needed is a comprehensive letter to affiliated clubs from the committee clearly explaining their actions .ie.leaving the sc .expelling clubs. Plan forward . Afterwards they can pass the information to their members . This will address matters and allow us all to push hard for a solution that can get up all behind the wheel again.

LB6

badaj0z wrote: »

4 have already written asking for the EGM and 2 are likely to write. 3 clubs are against the EGM and 1 is deciding.


who are the four that have asked for the EGM, the 2 likely to write, who are the 3 against and 1 deciding? How do you know this?

btw I do care!

My dander is well and truly up with all the he said she said malarkey that keyboard warriors (who didn't attend any of the meetings) are spouting here.

:mad:

habitformin

LB6 wrote: »

badaj0z wrote: »

4 have already written asking for the EGM and 2 are likely to write. 3 clubs are against the EGM and 1 is deciding.


who are the four that have asked for the EGM, the 2 likely to write, who are the 3 against and 1 deciding? How do you know this?

btw I do care!

My dander is well and truly up with all the he said she said malarkey that keyboard warriors (who didn't attend any of the meetings) are spouting here.

:mad:

It would have been nice to have known about these meetings .
We all are not as privileged to know what is going on all the time with all due respect to the boards,I never come on this place as a rule .I am here because I want this fixed I want a united front . And I don't know where to go .next year is a crap decision, call the EGM and be done with it if that is what is needed I prefer clarification.

LB6

If you did not know about the meetings, that is the fault of your club secretary. Everybody was informed.

I, like you, haven't been on here in ages, but felt the need to interject on this post.

Next year, (2 months away), which would only be 1 month behind when an EGM would be viable is not going to make much difference. Also you will get much more information at an AGM than you will at an EGM, as that's limited to the reason only that the EGM is requested. There is no other business discussed.

If you hold your fire (pun intended), turn up in January, ask your questions, all of them, you'll get your answers.

habitformin

LB6 wrote: »

If you did not know about the meetings, that is the fault of your club secretary. Everybody was informed.

I, like you, haven't been on here in ages, but felt the need to interject on this post.

Next year, (2 months away), which would only be 1 month behind when an EGM would be viable is not going to make much difference. Also you will get much more information at an AGM than you will at an EGM, as that's limited to the reason only that the EGM is requested. There is no other business discussed.

If you hold your fire (pun intended), turn up in January, ask your questions, all of them, you'll get your answers.

Lol that's grand except this as you well know won't go away .again egos have been bruised harm has been done but I believe in a quick fix.it stops the BoL lo xi n around which does more harm. If an EGM is called it will finish this for good.if not a statement should be issued with full disclosure at least people can then go to the meeting fully informed.after all what have the committee got to lose.if they are within their rights they have no fear,.let's hear it from them what in the name of God is going on.

habitformin

Clarity is not a lot to ask for .I'm really beginning to believe that they are actually trying to hide some harm done. If they are so clean cut in the right then they should come right out and tell us why.

habitformin

habitformin wrote: »

Clarity is not a lot to ask for .I'm really beginning to believe that they are actually trying to hide some harm done. If they are so clean cut in the right then they should come right out and tell us why.

Their silence is speaking volumes

badaj0z

habitformin wrote: »

All that is needed is a comprehensive letter to affiliated clubs from the committee clearly explaining their actions .ie.leaving the sc .expelling clubs. Plan forward . .

You will note that none of the apologists who post on behalf of the committee, or the committee itself in it's recent release have addressed the 3 key questions at the heart of this, viz.,

---Why did the NASRPC committee break their agreement not to do solo runs at the DOJ/Minister?
--- Why did they did not go back to the SC to explain themselves when they were found out?
----What was so compelling about the "Apprentice scheme" that it was worth sundering the coalition to attempt to get it adopted? This last one is the most puzzling. A similar scheme was mooted a while ago by the NASRPC committee and was soundly rejected by the shooting community at large.

badaj0z

LB6 wrote: »

There have been two information days, one at Hilltop ?

Information day? The committee got soundly thrashed by the floor at that meeting and only the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community got them another chance to put things right. Which they then blew by resigning having given an undertaking to make amends.

habitformin

badaj0z wrote: »

You will note that none of the apologists who post on behalf of the committee, or the committee itself in it's recent release have addressed the 3 key questions at the heart of this, viz.,

---Why did the NASRPC committee break their agreement not to do solo runs at the DOJ/Minister?
--- Why did they did not go back to the SC to explain themselves when they were found out?
----What was so compelling about the "Apprentice scheme" that it was worth sundering the coalition to attempt to get it adopted? This last one is the most puzzling. A similar scheme was mooted a while ago by the NASRPC committee and was soundly rejected by the shooting community at large.

So is this the main reason we have lost the most effective representation we have had for a long time?
is this why we are now pulling apart a brilliant sports coalition that did excellent work ? NASRPC included .
Whoever is responsible for this has a lot to answer for .
whoever it is should resign immediately or face being squarely dumped from any and all future representations.
Is it two or more people or simply one misguided individual that did this
We all make mistakes but to hide the mistake is an even greater deceit. Own up and move on.Right now we need to be United by Christmas that's what is needed.

cra

I was at the meeting at Hilltop, Michael Tope read out a statement on behalf of the committee regarding the issues they had with the Sports Coalition. He then opened it to the floor and it got quite heated, in the end as badaj0z says the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community led to an agreement by the committee that they would go back into a room for face to face talks, no emails, no letters just face to face and sort out the differences. What happened, the committee did not do what the members asked, they sent an email which is exactly what they said they would not do.

Why???

That question and the ones that badaj0z highlighted are what needs to be answered not some smokescreen questions about rumours.

habitformin

cra wrote: »

I was at the meeting at Hilltop, Michael Tope read out a statement on behalf of the committee regarding the issues they had with the Sports Coalition. He then opened it to the floor and it got quite heated, in the end as badaj0z says the intervention of two sensible members of the shooting community led to an agreement by the committee that they would go back into a room for face to face talks, no emails, no letters just face to face and sort out the differences. What happened, the committee did not do what the members asked, they sent an email which is exactly what they said they would not do.

Why???

That question and the ones that badaj0z highlighted are what needs to be answered not some smokescreen questions about rumours.

Why and who ? And for what?
That's what is hidden.

habitformin

habitformin wrote: »

Why and who ? And for what?
That's what is hidden.

Otherwise we wouldn't be here. If there's nothing to hide then spit it out. Prove the people you purport to represent right or wrong .
Explain to us why we should have confidence in your representation.

habitformin

I just hope badaj0z is right about the EGM it seems to be the only way now.

garrettod

Hi,

Are the individuals who are raising the various questions here (and perhaps in particular, those who were not at one of the recent meetings referred to earlier in this thread), also sending these questions to NASRPC and if so, what responses are being received ?

NicholasF

Luckily there are people who have been at the different meetings, and when the EGM is called, which should be soon, they will be able to field the questions and sort out this mess.

And hold those individuals accountable for there actions, if it is deemed they have acted improperly.
The NASRPC work for the membership

It is my hope that the integrity of the NASRPC can be re-established and will be involved in meaningful talks and put forward there experience and understanding of what would help there members.

In the meantime we in our club are working on some fundamental questions under different titles, where, we hope to develop a document to be presented to the SSC and on to the FCP for consideration.
In in it we talk about a number of things which we hope will be taken on board from a shooters's perspective.

We are not getting side tracked or distracted, as that has been an old strategy played out many times before.....

We have been there done that

We can all get back to the talks proper, and give our needed input to the requirements which we would like to see legislated for in shooting sports.

NicholasF

badaj0z

All you readers of this thread will be aware that a battle is in progress between the NASRPC committee and a number of clubs , who form a majority of the membership. The field of battle is the constitution which is usual in such disputes .One of the problems is that the committee is not abiding by the constitution on their web site. They say it has been changed but do not show the "new" one or offer any proof of how it was changed. But in reality this should not matter. Take a step back and you have to ask why is this committee hanging on? They know that they took a course of action which has turned the majority of their members against them but still they want to stay in power. Why? If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Resign with a little bit of honour or fight to the bitter end, even if it means dragging down your club, your association and your sport?

I pondered on this for a while and had another look at their recent statement and there was the answer, staring me in the face in this statement:

They said about the decision to leave the SC:

" The NASRPC executive committee did not ask the clubs permission to join the Sports Coalition, and therefore did not seek their permission to leave it."

My recollection of serving on club and sports committees is that you are there to serve the members not the other way round. This statement reveals the arrogance at the root of this problem.
I ask all NASRPC club members to think hard about this and decide whether they want a committee with this attitude to run their affairs. I know I do not which is why I am seeking a change.

habitformin

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

Are the individuals who are raising the various questions here (and perhaps in particular, those who were not at one of the recent meetings referred to earlier in this thread), also sending these questions to NASRPC and if so, what responses are being received ?

Yes and no reply

habitformin

badaj0z wrote: »

All you readers of this thread will be aware that a battle is in progress between the NASRPC committee and a number of clubs , who form a majority of the membership. The field of battle is the constitution which is usual in such disputes .One of the problems is that the committee is not abiding by the constitution on their web site. They say it has been changed but do not show the "new" one or offer any proof of how it was changed. But in reality this should not matter. Take a step back and you have to ask why is this committee hanging on? They know that they took a course of action which has turned the majority of their members against them but still they want to stay in power. Why? If you were in their shoes, what would you do? Resign with a little bit of honour or fight to the bitter end, even if it means dragging down your club, your association and your sport?

I pondered on this for a while and had another look at their recent statement and there was the answer, staring me in the face in this statement:

They said about the decision to leave the SC:

" The NASRPC executive committee did not ask the clubs permission to join the Sports Coalition, and therefore did not seek their permission to leave it."

My recollection of serving on club and sports committees is that you are there to serve the members not the other way round. This statement reveals the arrogance at the root of this problem.
I ask all NASRPC club members to think hard about this and decide whether they want a committee with this attitude to run their affairs. I know I do not which is why I am seeking a change.

badaj0z that is how I feel too that is the whole problem in a nutshell. Blatant egotistical arrogance.
We give them the power to represent us .I for one will never attend an NASRPC shoot while this committee is still in power. It's time to pull the plug I think.

habitformin

NicholasF wrote: »

Luckily there are people who have been at the different meetings, and when the EGM is called, which should be soon, they will be able to field the questions and sort out this mess.

And hold those individuals accountable for there actions, if it is deemed they have acted improperly.
The NASRPC work for the membership

It is my hope that the integrity of the NASRPC can be re-established and will be involved in meaningful talks and put forward there experience and understanding of what would help there members.

In the meantime we in our club are working on some fundamental questions under different titles, where, we hope to develop a document to be presented to the SSC and on to the FCP for consideration.
In in it we talk about a number of things which we hope will be taken on board from a shooters's perspective.

We are not getting side tracked or distracted, as that has been an old strategy played out many times before.....

We have been there done that

We can all get back to the talks proper, and give our needed input to the requirements which we would like to see legislated for in shooting sports.

NicholasF

Yes . You are right this is but a side show . Very good point .

Boxer1

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. A few points in my opinion we have missed The most important being that the NASRPC Is an association of member clubs. The associations committee is elected every year and charged with taking care of our sport and the associations functional daily needs. The committee can not in my opinion under any circumstance make the decisions they have made without first communicating with the member clubs. The decisions that were made were not for the committee to make alone, these decisions were and are bigger than any committee. Now we have a split in our association we can not deny it, caused by I believe the associations committees actions. The current officers of the association I believe are acting on their own for quite some time. These same officers tried in the past to negotiate with the A.G.S. and were mauled, some of them I believe had restrictions imposed on their F.C. when renewing. God help us when they try to negotiate with professionals. The clubs obviously have had enough and hence the call for an E.G.M. some people seem to think an E.G.M. and an A.G.M. are the same, they are quite the opposite.
At an A.G.M. when it comes to voting a vote may in certain circumstances be opened to the floor which is totally acceptable if all in attendance agree.
An E.G.M. on the other hand has a specific purpose or agenda and only allows for ONE vote per club in attendance the vote can not be opened to the floor. This prevents actions like rent a mob. That is how an honourable and democratic association of clubs conducts their business at an E.G.M.
The current associations committee would have us all believe fairy tales about how great they are and how poorly they have been treated by the S.C.
I believe we would still be on a downward slope if we did not have the S.C. It was through unity we were taken seriously.
This deflection of responsibility and complete disregard for the future of our sport by the NASRPC current committee leads me and a lot of other shooting enthusiasts to believe they have something to hide and it runs deep. Prove us all wrong call the E.G.M. and clear the smoke .

habitformin

Boxer1 wrote: »

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. A few points in my opinion we have missed The most important being that the NASRPC Is an association of member clubs. The associations committee is elected every year and charged with taking care of our sport and the associations functional daily needs. The committee can not in my opinion under any circumstance make the decisions they have made without first communicating with the member clubs. The decisions that were made were not for the committee to make alone, these decisions were and are bigger than any committee. Now we have a split in our association we can not deny it, caused by I believe the associations committees actions. The current officers of the association I believe are acting on their own for quite some time. These same officers tried in the past to negotiate with the A.G.S. and were mauled, some of them I believe had restrictions imposed on their F.C. when renewing. God help us when they try to negotiate with professionals. The clubs obviously have had enough and hence the call for an E.G.M. some people seem to think an E.G.M. and an A.G.M. are the same, they are quite the opposite.
At an A.G.M. when it comes to voting a vote may in certain circumstances be opened to the floor which is totally acceptable if all in attendance agree.
An E.G.M. on the other hand has a specific purpose or agenda and only allows for ONE vote per club in attendance the vote can not be opened to the floor. This prevents actions like rent a mob. That is how an honourable and democratic association of clubs conducts their business at an E.G.M.
The current associations committee would have us all believe fairy tales about how great they are and how poorly they have been treated by the S.C.
I believe we would still be on a downward slope if we did not have the S.C. It was through unity we were taken seriously.
This deflection of responsibility and complete disregard for the future of our sport by the NASRPC current committee leads me and a lot of other shooting enthusiasts to believe they have something to hide and it runs deep. Prove us all wrong call the E.G.M. and clear the smoke .

What I don't understand is how come a supposedly bunch of volunteers don't get it when they are not wanted anymore. Fair play to all the effort put in in the past but when you are done then go away. Why are they resisting so defiantly? This behavior makes no sense at all. Retire gracefully and let someone else take up the mantle. Go back to enjoying the sport you want to manage. Like no one will forget this carry on.I would prefer to be remembered for positive action for good work done than this mess we have now. Do this committee think they own shooting in Ireland?

habitformin

Was it something I said lol.

Boxer1

Nothing you said my friend, i have been very busy on the work front. Well since we last exchanged our views or opinions nothing much has changed. Nothing will happen for another few weeks either some of the committee are in Germany at the international gallery shoot being held there. There's another point of fact the Gallery squad representing Ireland in Germany this weekend is not the correct squad. While most of the squad members qualified fair and square and are in Germany. Going into the last national qualifier here in Ireland the powers that be decided to change the scoring template to ensure they them selves made the squad. When questioned about this, reluctantly they agreed and decided to sort this problem out when they got home. Another absolute disgrace and a complete disregard for their fellow shooting enthusiasts.
But as we all know this committee dose not need our permission to do anything.

habitformin

well i heard today its possible for an EGM real soon . Thats what is needed.

habitformin

I hope the majority of people see what is going on now .like yourself and myself Boxer1 .if they do injustices and cronysim will stop as soon as this EGM is called.
very busy here at work too. just that time of year.

ntipptop

Boxer1 wrote: »

Nothing you said my friend, i have been very busy on the work front. Well since we last exchanged our views or opinions nothing much has changed. Nothing will happen for another few weeks either some of the committee are in Germany at the international gallery shoot being held there. There's another point of fact the Gallery squad representing Ireland in Germany this weekend is not the correct squad. While most of the squad members qualified fair and square and are in Germany. Going into the last national qualifier here in Ireland the powers that be decided to change the scoring template to ensure they them selves made the squad. When questioned about this, reluctantly they agreed and decided to sort this problem out when they got home. Another absolute disgrace and a complete disregard for their fellow shooting enthusiasts.
But as we all know this committee dose not need our permission to do anything.

jeesuz the more i hear about "This committee" the more wrong doings are being shown up!!!!
How dare they change the scoring to suit themselves, Fair play to all who secured their place by honest shooting and scoring, to those, hold your heads held high, to those that "cheated" shame on you
Christ above ,this committee cant stay after all this, can they?????

If they "Fixed the scoring" what else is Fixed ????

And by the way i will be at any agm/egm to ask questions and to stand up for my sport, our sport!!!!

cra

The longer this debacle goes on the more damning the information that comes out. I have been reliably informed that Jeff McCann the assistant secretary of the NASRPC has resigned his position due to the actions of the current committee. I believe that Mr McCann who was not in attendance at the committee meeting when it was decided to expel An Riocht from the NASRPC asked some awkward questions of the committee and was pretty much told to butt out and mind his own business. Why shouldn't he as part of a committee tasked with making such decisions ask questions about the harsh treatment of a club over some misdemeanor, surely that is part of his job to represent the member clubs.
Why has the committee behaved in this manner, this all started over the committee's decision to withdraw from the Sports Coalition then among other things a club disagrees with them so they expel them, when a committee member voices a different opinion he is told to pipe down.
The current committee at this stage have to ask themselves "is it worth it" whatever they see in this deabcle, whatever reason they have to treat clubs and individuals like this, well is it

habitformin

Okay so we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. lovely.

No word from our beloved chairman of NASRPC.
Nothing on the EU From the committee of the NASRPC (or maybe I am wrong and don't know where to look please feel free to re direct me thank you)
Grizzly is right about this where the hell are they . ? If an EGM is called by the clubs that they represent why hasn't a date been announced? what bolloxing around are this committee at now.?
If they do not stick to their own constitution how can they hide behind it now.
this has turned into a pure JOKE.
They have turned into a JOKE.
They have said nothing about this EU thing and nothing about addressing their current situation .
When a united front is needed most we get division from people that agreed to act in a united group on behalf of the clubs that give them their jobs, our heroes are hiding under the bed ... again lovely.

Banning any type of firearm at all is wrong.( except full select fire as A. they're not accurate.B not needed C. couldn't keep ammunition drawn to them.) Capping any firearms is wrong, stopping one person having a fire arm when another can have it is wrong. Properly vetting people for their equipment is the way to go. Not half arsed giving it to one and refusing another from even applying for it.
It simply isn't fair.( and don't care about statutory instruments saying so.) As far s I am aware the Irish constitution allows the powers to act on us in some respects but we have other rights that no one can ever take from us and a statutory instrument is only a piece pf paper. No man or woman should be able to impose his personal prejudice or will on the private people with their private property.
That is what ex politician Dermot Ahearne did when he capped Center fire hand guns and tried to remove the right of law abiding people from taking part in legitimate shooting sports. After all he said "he had personal experience of the tragedy that guns can bring" I still don't know what he was on about.
its more people we want in our sport not less . otherwise it will die out and the people who are trying to stop us like Dermot Ahearne know this only too well.

I'M THINKING OF MOVING TO SYRIA WHERE AT LEAST I KNOW WHERE I STAND !!!!

BattleCorp

So much bitching in this thread, it's sickening.

Has everybody on this forum written to the EU to let them know what we think of these dumbass proposals?

Has everybody signed the change.org petition?

Has everybody on this forum written to all the Irish MEP's?

Because if you haven't, shut the fcuk up and start writing to them now.

Sorry if I'm being a bit blunt here, but I'm sick listening to people bicker.

When our sport is safe, then fight away among yourselves.

garrettod

BattleCorp wrote: »

....When our sport is safe, then fight away among yourselves.

What was it Brendan Behan said about a split ?

.... he has proven right, time and time again and it looks like we will never learn !

badaj0z

The macro view is very important and I have signed the petition and written to the EU as have many of the readers and contributors to this thread but just because a major injustice is threatened does not mean we have to cow tow to another injustice already inflicted. People can do two things at the same time you know so the spate of invective just seen on this thread is unjustified. We will all work to minimise the EU threat but we will also continue to push for justice and fair dealing at home. What say you NASRPC committee?

Cass

Two things people:

• Firstly we need to mind the language. Things get heated and we understand people are passionate on both sides of the argument, but insults and name calling will not be tolerated. We don't want to have to start editing or deleting posts as it'll disrupt the thread and could cause loss off context in the flow of debate.
• Secondly while there is always some sort of meandering in a threads topic we really don't want to see multiple thread turn into the one topic. Namely the proposed EU changes. There is a thread on the topic here and we understand that some crossover will happen however if a thread turns into a "duplicate" of another the Mods normally merge them or move posts. Doing this can cause problems as we cannot split up individual posts and place the relevant bits into the appropriate threads. If we move the entire post it can disrupt the flow of the thread we took it from. So please try to stay as much on topic as possible.

Thanks.

habitformin

The NASRPC has to get off its hole and deal with the EU policy proposal and it needs to deal with its own members wishes. We do not need another dictatorship and more division.

cra

So it looks like the NASRPC are ignoring the wishes of their members and are not going to have a EGM (hopefully I am wrong). They probably do not realize the damage that they are doing to the association as there seems to be a disconnect between the committee and the members and that is never good (e.g. the IFA). They seem to be fobbing off members with the promise of a AGM in January, do they realize what this will lead to. There is obviously a lot of anger with the committee and a AGM will likely turn into a farce with lots of shouting back and forth with lots of issues and accusations being raised with the whole thing likely to go on for hours and hours resulting in the actual business of the AGM taking second place. An EGM is obviously a better way of dealing with these problems and it would leave the AGM to do what it is supposed to do. The AGM should be postphoned and an EGM called so this whole mess can be sorted out in an appropriate manner.

BattleCorp

cra wrote: »

So it looks like the NASRPC are ignoring the wishes of their members and are not going to have a EGM (hopefully I am wrong). They probably do not realize the damage that they are doing to the association as there seems to be a disconnect between the committee and the members and that is never good (e.g. the IFA). They seem to be fobbing off members with the promise of a AGM in January, do they realize what this will lead to. There is obviously a lot of anger with the committee and a AGM will likely turn into a farce with lots of shouting back and forth with lots of issues and accusations being raised with the whole thing likely to go on for hours and hours resulting in the actual business of the AGM taking second place. An EGM is obviously a better way of dealing with these problems and it would leave the AGM to do what it is supposed to do. The AGM should be postphoned and an EGM called so this whole mess can be sorted out in an appropriate manner.

Would an EGM get good attendance this time of the year? Personally I mightn't be able to make it before Christmas and I'd say a lot of others would be in the same boat.

I'm not political so forgive me if I'm being a bit naive but is there a big difference between an EGM before Christmas or an AGM a few weeks later?

Grizzly 45

The very good reason to have this EGM alot sooner than January,is simply for people to lobby the comittee of NASRPC about the changing and fast moving events in Europe.The silence about this is ridicilous from both sections,shooters and comittee.
They will be just a bunch of talking heads in a comittee room someplace discussing nothing of import,if this goes thru as all the DOJ/AGS will be saying to us is simply "Look lads we even agree 100% with you on this whatever X,Y,topic,but its EU LAW! So we have to do what Brussells tells us on this.Now, what head shrinker will we all approve to vet everyone who has a liscense and who will weld up granddads single shot deact shotgun into a high tech club?"
That is about all this comittee will be able to discuss post EU directive if it goes thru.
So it is actually in everyones hands to solve this problem,by literally forcing the comittee to engage with them using the same tactics we used to lobby for the last 12 months.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The very good reason to have this EGM alot sooner than January,is simply for people to lobby the comittee of NASRPC about the changing and fast moving events in Europe.The silence about this is ridicilous from both sections,shooters and comittee.
They will be just a bunch of talking heads in a comittee room someplace discussing nothing of import,if this goes thru as all the DOJ/AGS will be saying to us is simply "Look lads we even agree 100% with you on this whatever X,Y,topic,but its EU LAW! So we have to do what Brussells tells us on this.Now, what head shrinker will we all approve to vet everyone who has a liscense and who will weld up granddads single shot deact shotgun into a high tech club?"
That is about all this comittee will be able to discuss post EU directive if it goes thru.
So it is actually in everyones hands to solve this problem,by literally forcing the comittee to engage with them using the same tactics we used to lobby for the last 12 months.

While I'm not an expert on anything at all Griz, least of all AGM's and EGM's, I am led to believe that an EGM can only talk about one topic whereas an AGM can deal with everything. If there is an EGM called regarding the NASRPC leaving the Sports Coalition, then they can't talk about this European Parliament stuff. That's my understanding. And if an EGM is called to talk about the European Parliament stuff, then they can't talk about why the NASRPC left the Sports Coalition.

badaj0z

BattleCorp wrote: »

While I'm not an expert on anything at all Griz, least of all AGM's and EGM's, I am led to believe that an EGM can only talk about one topic whereas an AGM can deal with everything. If there is an EGM called regarding the NASRPC leaving the Sports Coalition, then they can't talk about this European Parliament stuff. That's my understanding. And if an EGM is called to talk about the European Parliament stuff, then they can't talk about why the NASRPC left the Sports Coalition.

You are correct. EGM's are single issue meetings and the EGM requests that have been submitted by the clubs all refer to one motion, i.e. changing the committee. However. maybe there is a way to turn events to our advantage. The current NASRPC committee has proved very adept at ducking and diving to avoid the substantial issues which need to be resolved. They also seem to want to stay in their positions of power so we could ship them all to Brussels to takeover negotiations on the EU firearms issue. This is after all, what we do with some senior politicians who become MEPs or commissioners. This would then leave the way clear at home to elect a new committee and get on with the business of protecting and developing the shooting sports.

BattleCorp

badaj0z wrote: »

They also seem to want to stay in their positions of power so we could ship them all to Brussels to takeover negotiations on the EU firearms issue.

I'm not trying to defend the NASRPC committee but are you seriously suggesting that they are clinging to power in an attempt to get a job in Brussels dealing with firearms issues? Seriously?

garrettod

BattleCorp wrote: »

....are you seriously suggesting that they are clinging to power in an attempt to get a job in Brussels dealing with firearms issues? Seriously?

Please make the response be Yes ... please, please, please

Grizzly 45

badaj0z wrote: »

You are correct. EGM's are single issue meetings and the EGM requests that have been submitted by the clubs all refer to one motion, i.e. changing the committee. However. maybe there is a way to turn events to our advantage. The current NASRPC committee has proved very adept at ducking and diving to avoid the substantial issues which need to be resolved. They also seem to want to stay in their positions of power so we could ship them all to Brussels to takeover negotiations on the EU firearms issue. This is after all, what we do with some senior politicians who become MEPs or commissioners. This would then leave the way clear at home to elect a new committee and get on with the business of protecting and developing the shooting sports.

It would be great if it could be done like that...however,in reality it isnt plausable,they arent elected politicans,and unless they were invited to take up some employment with a lobby ,pressure,NGO or whatever group in Brussells ...Who is employing them?It would be the same as what happened here in the Dail in Feb,groups invited to make a submission in person,which anyone can do online with the EU from their computor. This is a local political squabble for local power in Ireland.If the constitution allows,you need to call for a vote of no confidence at the EGM of the comitteee and for them to stand down.But you'd want to have new people ready and willing to go there and then.

cra

Tea drinker wrote: »

Yeah pretty much any shoot I done one or both of the guy being whined about was there to organise and help people. Personally been helped plenty by these guys. And as for some club not paying their dues for nearly a year... ah no let's not even discuss how that is unhelpful and self serving. Not something I can support.

We are not whining about one or two guys we are talking about the committee and their actions. Yes they have done good work in the past and nobody disputes that but they have dropped the ball now and their silence about the whole thing is only making it worse. What club didn't pay their dues for nearly a year by the way.