Irish rail fine appeal- help?

Elemonator

TheChrisD wrote: »

ohai OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dublin/comments/4251le/appealing_irish_rail_fine_help/

All avenues being explored

Hilly Bill

lazza14 wrote: »

Seriously ?

You are being so honest they should rescind it, if they don't it's a joke and no wonder people don't pay fares.

When I go from Raheny to Ranaleigh the DART ticket is E2.55 (ONE WAY) - plus the LUAS is about 2E, Immoral prices for a one way journey of a few miles.

I dont bother my hole paying for the LUAS - never been caught.

And when you do you will start another help i got a fine thread.

GM228

Elemonator wrote: »

Yeah probably, I wasn't so much hoping to avoid the fine but maybe get it reduced. Thanks Gaz.

As pointed out there is no loopholes in the law which I think you accept, but there is also no way to reduce the €100 fine either as it is set at €100 by law, and they won't reduce the fare portion either as the fare would be still outstanding.

Elemonator wrote: »

Actually they can view my transaction history, I've established that much with them.

No they can't, that info is held and owned by the NTA, not the individual companies, you can however view it online and print it out to show them if you wish, however it only shows that you regularly tag on, it dosn't show if you take the chance the odd time and chance not tagging on, (not saying you don't) so it proves nothing.

Elemonator wrote: »

I don't think so. While it may or may not say on the back of the card that the card remains property of the issuer, the money on the card is mine.

Incorrect, the money is not yours, it's Leaps, you paid it to them under those conditions, it's no longer yours. By making payment you accept the T&Cs.

It's the same as paying for any ticket and having it confiscated, you are not entitled to any refund of an unused portion.

roverrules

Elemonator wrote: »

Actually they can view my transaction history, I've established that much with them.

Only shows the journeys you've tagged on/off for, if you haven't tagged then the record is incomplete, conceivably you could have done journeys without tagging on or off and if not caught there is no record.

AlanG

Have you established why the took your card? The T & C's say they can take it if the card is misused - In your case it was not used so they really don't seem to have grounds to take it. The Misuse clause is really there in situations where you loan the card to a friend. How can they fine you for not using the card and then say it was misused. In reality the Leap card has noting to do with the situation you described.

Losty Dublin

AlanG wrote: »

Have you established why the took your card? The T & C's say they can take it if the card is misused - In your case it was not used so they really don't seem to have grounds to take it. The Misuse clause is really there in situations where you loan the card to a friend. How can they fine you for not using the card and then say it was misused. In reality the Leap card has noting to do with the situation you described.

The user needs to tag on before they board the train. Upon inspection it was found that they didn't tag on when they needed to use the card to do same. Therefore it was improperly used and they were entitled to hold onto it regardless if it had or hadn't credit on it.

goingnowhere

One of the reasons to tag on is thats the only way to update the card, also the only way to block the card if it has been reported lost/stolen

Ticket checkers can only check the card state, and it has to show a valid tag on

TheChizler

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The user needs to tag on before they board the train. Upon inspection it was found that they didn't tag on when they needed to use the card to do same. Therefore it was improperly used and they were entitled to hold onto it regardless if it had or hadn't credit on it.

There isn't a requirement to use the card every time though. You might have the option of using a regular non-student card or paying cash (or using nothing!), I don't see how they're saying the card has been misused in this case.

GM228

AlanG wrote: »

Have you established why the took your card? The T & C's say they can take it if the card is misused - In your case it was not used so they really don't seem to have grounds to take it. The Misuse clause is really there in situations where you loan the card to a friend. How can they fine you for not using the card and then say it was misused. In reality the Leap card has noting to do with the situation you described.

LIGHT RAILWAY (REGULATION OF TRAVEL AND USE) BYE-LAWS 2015 wrote:

Tickets
3. (1) A passenger shall not -
(a) travel or attempt to travel on a light rail vehicle without possession of a valid ticket,
(b) use or attempt to use a ticket other than under the terms and conditions under which it has been issued,
(c) use or attempt to use a ticket for more journeys than permitted by the ticket,
(d) forge, copy, deface or mutilate any ticket or use or attempt to use a ticket that has been forged, copied, defaced or mutilated,
(e) fail or refuse to produce a ticket to an authorised person for inspection when requested to do so,
(f) fail or refuse to produce a form of identification or other particular document to an authorised person for inspection when requested to do so where the validity of the ticket held by the passenger depends on the passenger being in possession of a form of identification or particular document,
(g) use or attempt to use a ticket without being in possession of a form of identification or other particular document where the validity of that ticket depends on the passenger using that ticket being in possession of a form of identification or particular document,
(h) transfer a ticket to any person where such ticket is not transferable,
(i) use or attempt to use a ticket that has issued to another person and is not transferable,
(j) where the validity of any ticket depends on the ticket being properly validated using a ticket validating machine, use or attempt to use a ticket which has not been so validated.
(2) An authorised person is entitled to retain any ticket or form of identification or other particular document required for use with that ticket.

Nothing there specifically saying it has to be misused.

TheChizler

GM228 wrote: »

Nothing there specifically saying it has to be misused.

But the key point is that no attempt was made to use that ticket. Unless the OP argued to the inspector that he was trying to use a ticket and just forgot to tag on, but they don't explicitly tell us that's what happened.

GM228

TheChizler wrote: »

But the key point is that no attempt was made to use that ticket. Unless the OP argued to the inspector that he was trying to use a ticket and just forgot to tag on, but they don't explicitly tell us that's what happened.

The OP said he didn't tag on the Leap card and he explained the situation to the inspector, not tagging on is misuse of the card as you are required to tag on.

pclive

Fine appeal threads along with threads on Dart Underground and Metro North should be banned!:)

All pointless