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Eircode discussion

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    #272
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    What's the point? So far as An Post is concerned it will not make any difference, the post will arrive on time without it.



    I didn't. It was an error on the part of my correspondent. I would always give my full address, because I know An Post doesn't use the Eircode to deliver my post.


    Your post arrived on time before eircode, you knew this, we all knew this. An Post can make use of eircode at certain stages in their process, at the 4 mail centres it can read and sort by eircode and maybe that saves them money or has other uses.

    Eircodes weren't implemented with the sole purpose of making your mail arrive faster. They have far wider uses and that's where the real benefits come from.


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    #273
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    "What is Eircode?"

    Eircode, Ireland’s postcode system launched in July 2015

    http://www.eircode.ie/what-is-eircode

    A "postcode" system which almost a year after its launch is not actually used by Ireland's postal service to deliver post . . .


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    #274
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    "What is Eircode?"

    Eircode, Ireland’s postcode system launched in July 2015

    http://www.eircode.ie/what-is-eircode

    A "postcode" system which almost a year after its launch is not actually used by Ireland's postal service to deliver post . . .

    It's used in their 4 national mail centres and by various other An Post services. Parcel delivery, address checker, etc etc


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    #275
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    It's used in their 4 national mail centres and by various other An Post services. Parcel delivery, address checker, etc etc

    You wrote that "People have been repeatedly told to keep using there full address and just add eircode." Why should they? What difference will it make to them? (The answer, of course, is none.)


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    #276
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    You wrote that "People have been repeatedly told to keep using there full address and just add eircode." Why should they? What difference will it make to them? (The answer, of course, is none.)

    Why shouldn't they? Eircode was not intended to replace a full address or any part of it. I'm not sure what your point is.

    Do you just not like the fact it's called a postcode?


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    #277
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    Why shouldn't they?

    Because there is no reason to. As part of my postal address, Eircode is 100% redundant. It will not get my post to me any faster. Not including Eircode in my address won't slow delivery of my post or make it go astray.
    ukoda wrote: »
    Do you just not like the fact it's called a postcode

    It's more that I'm amused that it's called a postcode when it has SFA to do with post.


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    #278
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Because there is no reason to. As part of my postal address, Eircode is 100% redundant. It will not get my post to me any faster. Not including Eircode in my address won't slow delivery of my post or make it go astray.



    It's more that I'm amused that it's called a postcode when it has SFA to do with post.


    Well eircode is optional for mail delivery, so no one is actually telling you that you must add it. If you don't want to, then you don't have to.


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    #279
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    Well eircode is optional for mail delivery . . .

    It's not just "optional", it's completely and utterly irrelevant. Some "postcode system"!


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    #280
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    It's not just "optional", it's completely and utterly irrelevant. Some "postcode system"!

    There are a lot of businesses reaping benefits from eircode that would disagree with you.


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    #281
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    There are a lot of businesses reaping benefits from eircode that would disagree with you.

    I am talking specifically about our national postal service and that the fact that it doesn't use our alleged "postcode system".


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    #282
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    I am talking specifically about our national postal service and that the fact that it doesn't use our alleged "postcode system".

    Basically, you're saying that because a near-monopoly player in a market doesn't use a code that could be of use to its competitors (and opposed the introduction of any such code for precisely that reason), the code is useless.

    Well played, An Post. Well played.


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    #283
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Basically, you're saying that . . . the code is useless.

    I did not say that. Eircode may well be of use for other purposes that have been alluded to in this thread, such as SUSI's use of it to determine the exact distance from students' homes to their colleges or universities, to determine their grant entitlements, or your own use of it for your business.

    What I said is that, despite Capita's claims, Eircode is not a postcode and that there is absolutely no reason for people to include Eircodes in their postal addresses.


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    #284
    PDVerse
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭PDVerse


    A postcode is used to sort post. Eircode is used by An Post to sort post. Eircode can improve the speed and/or efficiency of sorting post to get it into the postbag of the relevant postal delivery worker. From there the post is delivered using the address. An Post use Eircode, and will modify existing manual sorting procedures when usage rates increase. Eircode is a postcode.


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    #285
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    What I said is that, despite Capita's claims, Eircode is not a postcode...
    But in order to make that claim, you basically have to invent a brand-new definition of "postcode" that's carefully crafted to exclude Eircodes. And, even then - as pointed out by PDVerse - you're wrong.


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    #286
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    PDVerse wrote: »
    A postcode is used to sort post. Eircode is used by An Post to sort post.

    How? It is not used in any way at the local delivery centres. An Post have been extremely vague about how it may be being used in national sorting centres.
    PDVerse wrote: »
    Eircode can improve the speed and/or efficiency of sorting post to get it into the postbag of the relevant postal delivery worker. From there the post is delivered using the address.

    Again, how? I get all my post overnight without an Eircode in the address.
    PDVerse wrote: »
    An Post use Eircode, and will modify existing manual sorting procedures when usage rates increase.

    An Post customer service have told me directly that is is not currently viable to use Eircodes for local automated or manual sorting. I admire your optimism, but I'd suggest "if" rather than "when" would be more realistic.
    PDVerse wrote: »
    Eircode is a postcode.

    Not in any meaningful sense of the term and it is certainly not being used by An Post in the manner it was designed to be used.


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    #287
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    How? It is not used in any way at the local delivery centres. An Post have been extremely vague about how it may be being used in national sorting centres.



    Again, how? I get all my post overnight without an Eircode in the address.



    An Post customer service have told me directly that is is not currently viable to use Eircodes for local automated or manual sorting. I admire your optimism, but I'd suggest "if" rather than "when" would be more realistic.



    Not in any meaningful sense of the term and it is certainly not being used by An Post in the manner it was designed to be used.


    I admire your confidence that you can claim to be the sole authority on the definition of what constitutes a postcode in ireland.

    It's also good to know that you have examined An Posts processes in depth to be able to represent them in telling us that they are certainly not using eircode in the way it was intended.


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    #288
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭plodder


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    What I said is that, despite Capita's claims, Eircode is not a postcode and that there is absolutely no reason for people to include Eircodes in their postal addresses.
    except possibly for non-unique addresses. In some of those cases, the postman might be able to distinguish addresses that were ambiguous before (people with the same name). It requires the postman to become familiar with the random part of the Eircode though and he/she has to figure out which code is which, ie that Johnny Murphy Senior has the code PQ21 and Johnny Murphy Junior has the code KY99 (though they live next door to each other).

    But, for the majority of addresses that are already unique, eircode doesn't add any value as a postcode, .. except to give people something to type into the postcode field on websites....


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    #289
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    I admire your confidence that you can claim to be the sole authority on the definition of what constitutes a postcode in ireland.

    It's also good to know that you have examined An Posts processes in depth to be able to represent them in telling us that they are certainly not using eircode in the way it was intended.

    Eircodes are designed to uniquely identify every postal address in the country. An Post is not using this information in its local sorting and delivery processes. I know this not because of my in depth examination of their processes, but because that's what they told me in January:
    At the delivery stage the textual address is what is used by the Postal Operative to attempt delivery. With approximately three million mail items processed and delivered by An Post daily it would not be practical or economically viable to look up the Eircode to obtain the textual address.

    With regard to non-unique addresses (circa 40%) the Postperson relies on the actual surname and on occasion the first name as well to identify the delivery point that the mail item is for.

    With an insufficient address there is no guarantee that the Eircode would be correct and an error in the Eircode could, if used to find a textual address, result in an incorrect textual address being used and consequently the mail item would be delivered to the wrong address.

    An Post will use Eircodes in manual sorting and automated sequence sorting of Postpersons routes when the volume of mail containing correct Eircodes reaches a critical mass that makes this a viable approach to sorting mail.

    When this happens the correct postal address will still be required as the textual address is used by Postal Operatives on delivery.
    I followed up with a query as to what the then current Eircode usage level was and what, for their purposes, would constitute the "critical mass" they'd need to use it at local sorting and delivery level. They said they'd get back to me on those points. Five months later, I'm still waiting.


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    #290
    sondagefaux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    ukoda wrote: »
    sondagefaux wrote: »
    I'm gonna go with what An Post actually do rather than what they say on the their Twitter account. :)

    Yes that's what I said, they can do it. But they don't want to and tell people they must use their full address
    They tell people they don't want to but they go ahead and deliver this type of mail anyway.

    Actions speak louder than words.


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    #291
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    But in order to make that claim, you basically have to invent a brand-new definition of "postcode" that's carefully crafted to exclude Eircodes. And, even then - as pointed out by PDVerse - you're wrong.

    We already know that An Post is not using the full code, because they've told us that. At most, it is using the routing keys. If we take Westport, the routing code is F23 and it covers all of Clew Bay from Louisburgh, to Westport, around by Newport to Mulrany and Achill, and extensive surrouding areas.

    If someone sends me a letter with Westport in the address, then the routing key is completely redundant. An Post's existing sorting systems can read Westport as easily as an Eircode and route the post more accurately to the local sorting and delivery office. An Eircode in the address serves absolutely no purpose.


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    #292
    clewbays
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭clewbays


    The parliamentary questions continue: https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2016-06-14a.1321


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    #293
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    clewbays wrote: »
    The parliamentary questions continue: https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2016-06-14a.1321



    From the link:



    "Contracts have been signed with satellite navigation companies and negotiations are ongoing with others. Google and Eircode are working together to bring Eircodes to Google Applications, including Google Maps shortly. TomTom have concluded their licence negotiations for Eircodes and are currently integrating the codes into their products."


    I could take from that that they haven't nailed a contract with Garmin yet. Probably because they will want to negotiate Loc8 code off the devices first :p


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    #294
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    I could take from that that they haven't nailed a contract with Garmin yet. Probably because they will want to negotiate Loc8 code off the devices first :p

    I note that the minister was directly asked "if the Loc8 code was considered for use with the Eircode autoaddress application in the introduction of two additional postcodes to be used with the application; if not, the reason;".

    He simply ignored the question and instead answered questions he hadn't been asked, making no reference whatever to Loc8 in his reply


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    #295
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we keep off loc8 please. It is not relevant anymore.


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    #296
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    I note that the minister was directly asked "if the Loc8 code was considered for use with the Eircode autoaddress application in the introduction of two additional postcodes to be used with the application; if not, the reason;".

    He simply ignored the question and instead answered questions he hadn't been asked, making no reference whatever to Loc8 in his reply

    I don't know why anyone would ask such a question. They don't ask if Open postcode Go code or any of the others were considered.

    Loc8 have made themselves out to be some sort of charity offering thier code for "free" and have duped people into thinking that 1, it was suitable (it wasn't) and 2, it would be "free" (it wouldn't have been)


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    #297
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Mod: Can we keep off loc8 please. It is not relevant anymore.

    I had already submitted my post below yours before I saw this. Is there a general ban on mentioning Loc8?


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    #298
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ukoda wrote: »
    I don't know why anyone would ask such a question.

    I don't know either. And I don't know much about Loc8 and certainly have no particular view on its suitability as an alternative to Eircode.

    But I do know the deputy was entitled to a straight answer to a yes or no question and he didn't get it. Which would make me wonder why the minister and his civil servants are being so evasive on the point.


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    #299
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ukoda wrote: »
    I had already submitted my post below yours before I saw this. Is there a general ban on mentioning Loc8?

    Previous threads were closed because of trolling related to loc8. I have no wish to return to that scenario. As far as this thread is concerned loc8 is dead and buried.

    [Except that Garmin support it - if the post relates to Garmin then I think it might be relevant but that is all.]


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    #300
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Previous threads were closed because of trolling related to loc8. I have no wish to return to that scenario. As far as this thread is concerned loc8 is dead and buried.

    [Except that Garmin support it - if the post relates to Garmin then I think it might be relevant but that is all.]

    That's fair enough so. In relation to Garmin, they have a contract with loc8 and on the front entry screen of every sat nav Garmin sell in Ireland it says "enter address / loc8code" I would imagine eircode would want to replace that with "enter address / eircode" and I think it may be a sticking point in the negotiations as Garmin have a contract with loc8. I'll leave it at that.

    I think Garmin will be forced into eircode adoption if both TomTom and Google Maps use it. Without support of eircode then effectively they've killed sales of their devices in ireland as who'd buy their device over ones that support eircode.

    At least we've moved on from the whole "it won't fit on a sat nav / can't be used offline" nonsense that so many people were spouting on here.


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    #301
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ukoda wrote: »
    That's fair enough so. In relation to Garmin, they have a contract with loc8 and on the front entry screen of every sat nav Garmin sell in Ireland it says "enter address / loc8code" I would imagine eircode would want to replace that with "enter address / eircode" and I think it may be a sticking point in the negotiations as Garmin have a contract with loc8. I'll leave it at that.

    I think Garmin will be forced into eircode adoption if both TomTom and Google Maps use it. Without support of eircode then effectively they've killed sales of their devices in ireland as who'd buy their device over ones that support eircode.

    They could go with 'Enter Address/loc8/Eircode' - that would work.

    My Garmin asks for 'Address/postcode' but it was bought in Currys - UK.


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