BMW 330e

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

If all the grants and discounts that you recieve dissappear then that will help your 2nd hand value. By the same token if they double the grants and discounts, you'll suffer more.

Yehh thats what I was thinking, but surely the grants wont last forever - and its hard to see them improving on it.
Either way, for sure Diesel cars are about to take a hit and I can't imagine switching to the 330e is going to hurt me more than holding onto my Diesel.

vintagevrs

An owner of a 330e recently posted how bm offered him 21k less than what he paid after 18 months of ownership.

If you think buying a new car is a way of saving money I would say there are very very rare occasions when that is true, and this probably isn't going to be one of them.

If you like the car, like the tech and can afford it by all means go buy one. But don't do it to save money as you believe your diesel is going to tank in value.

bazz26

Diesels are not going anywhere in the short to medium term in this country. There is a lot of scaremongering going on at present as well as lofty goals being made by the Government in front of the tv cameras but reality is they have produced no solid strategy or road map (excuse the bun) other than putting distant dates on sensationalist headlines to make it look like they are doing something. All this does is put fear into peoples heads that they need to get rid of their diesels before they are stuck with them.

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

An owner of a 330e recently posted how bm offered him 21k less than what he paid after 18 months of ownership.

This is my point - is it 21k off the original price giving a trade in price of say 33000 or was it of the price he paid after grant, giving trade in price of 20000 ? This wasn’t clear in this example. So if he got 33000 after paying 42000 with grant etc then that’s not too bad - although I still feel he should not be punished for getting a grant.
And as I said, this might work better if the grant was posted to the original buyer as a chq rather than the dealer taking it of the price at time of purchase.

vintagevrs

It was off the discounted price.....


A cheque in the post isn't going to make a difference either. If you buy a phev and get a cheque in the post for 10k, your car is essentially worth 10k less.

This is because everyone buying that car new gets a cheque for 10k. So potential buyer for your lovely 12 month old car comes along, they will look at how much the car costs new which is the price of the car minus the free 10k the government are hanging out to everyone buying new and your 2nd hand price is valued accordingly.

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

If you think buying a new car is a way of saving money I would say there are very very rare occasions when that is true, and this probably isn't going to be one of them.

I don’t believe I said anywhere that buying a new car is a way of saving money. I have bought 3 showroom cars & im well aware of first year depreciation, ouch 😄 But I can live with that. My eyes are open to it. I am just trying to understand if I actually benifit from the grant in the long run - it would seem probably not, the way they have it set up, which is a shame. But still a 3 series m sport for 42000 is not to be dismissed without some serious consideration. And my thinking is, that although it will suffer the usual first couple years depreciation it might be in a better position than my current Diesel 2 or 3 years from now, when ch is not to say it would be the investment of my life - as you say buying a new car never is - but I can minimise my loss by switching from Diesel sooner rather than later.

As another poster mentioned, a lot of it is scaremongering at the moment with no real plan with regard to Diesel, but sometimes scaremongering is all that’s needed to affect a market. Diesel sales all around Europe are down. Realistically the future of Diesel is not bright - how near that future is is debatable but I’ll have to shift at some stage and I’m just looking for the right moment.

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

It was off the discounted price......

Apologies if I missed that he said that, but I couldn’t find it. It’s a long thread.....

thierry14

ajamesr wrote: »

Apologies if I missed that he said that, but I couldn’t find it. It’s a long thread.....

Is it not smarter to buy a 330e that's already depreciated?

Instead of you taking the hit

Below would be under 30k all in, thats nearly 50% depreciation in 1 year

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801022384506?advertising-location=at_cars&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=3%20SERIES&page=1&aggregatedTrim=330e&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

vintagevrs

Well just go in with your eyes open as you say. They are a fine car no doubt, refinement from electric petrol combo, potential very ecomical if your driving pattern suits it and it's relatively quick.

But, and this is the unknown. PHEV tech is moving much faster than ICE. So if you buy a diesel or petrol now, you can be sure in 5 years time the replacement will have a few extra bhp and might return slightly better mpg, but nothing noticeable in the real world.

For example the 2.0 diesel from bmw in the e90 went from 163bhp to 177 to 184.....and mpg probably not much change. You get the idea.

No one knows how the tech in PPhEVwill improve. Three years time a new PHEV could have 4x the electric range dating any current tech very quickly and hammering resale. As mentioned by another poster, the f30 is at the end of it's life cycle too which won't help.

mickdw

To answer the vrt question.
The 2500 rebate than applies to new sales here also applies when importing used but it decreases based on age of car in 250 increments I believe.
So vrt is calculated at 14 percent I think of omsp less the portion of the rebate remaining.

MarkN

At the moment (and that’s the only certainty in all of this) the grant and discounts are available so you price your car’s future residuals on what someone can buy a brand new one for today. If someone can buy a brand new one for low 40s, a used one is going to have to be priced well enough so it doesn’t make sense for a potential buyer to just get a new one.

Heres Johnny

Your depreciation is probably based on what a used one can be brought in for from
UK. We can do what we want here as regards grants but if they're cheaper over there......they'll be cheaper here. Get a 18 month or 2 year old model OP it will be half the price

carsfan2

I am the poster referred to complaining of the depreciation on my 2016 330e.
Just had a quick look at my paperwork there before posting this morning.
Car was just over 58k on the road before grants. 7500 off for grants and vrt rebate. Dealer took off just over a grand on the price then to sell it out to me for 50k. this came off the value he had put on my trade in at.
They initially offered me 30k on a trade in this year against 530e and subsequently 33k. So loss of value of 17k but that is against another new BMW, so would probably get less if looking at other cars. To be honest I reckon this is actually a generous enough deal I was offered in the end.
I reckon if I had bought any other 50k car, I would have similar losses regardless. Car is two years old on its plate and it is the value of sterling that sets the market now. Any second hand cars value in Ireland is set at what you can import one from the uk for plus maybe a grand for the hassle.
I bought on pcp partly as I was bothered about residuals on a hybrid being unknown, and BMW offered 3.9 per cent at the time. Now I reckon I will hand the car back at end of term.
That said, if any poster wants a well equipped one owner Irish m sports plus model, I’d be up for letting it go for the 30k I was offered.
Depreciation is impossible to really beat and buying a new car is certainly not the way to do it unless you can get your name down for some limited edition Porsche or similar and then you can't put any mileage on it.

I certainly wouldn't trade in a diesel car for a brand new hybrid for fear of diesel residuals. the Irish market is still pro diesel and will be for a few more years. I would have zero hesitation going back to a high power diesel 3/4/5 series at the right money. 330e is a great car in my view but like any BMW is a better used purchase nowadays. Also be wary of buying new from BMW even with sterling offers etc. They are not known for their charity and by the time you add metallic, delivery ,service pack and a couple of extras the price goes up nicely. Also the shadow edition is the one to get now if buying new as this is essentially a run out model. There is an all new 3 series being shown in October and it is due to go on sale March 2019 with the 330e going up to 265 bhp.

JoeA3

I’d agree with the last few posts. The Hybrid / electric tech is still in its relative infancy. Some manufacturers are barely tipping their toes into it so far (VAG don’t have much worth considering really), and then there’s the likes of Lexus who are all in on it.
Who knows where it will be in another 5-6 years. It’s akin to when smart phones first became in vogue. The first few years, the next new iPhone dated your “old” one very significantly. Nowadays the next iPhone isn’t much different to the old one! So I would also fear that a new 330e or similar is going to be very old hat tech wise in a few short years. If you’re happy to be on the bleeding edge, that’s great.... but...

Personally I’m liking the idea of something EV / Hybrid for the wife’s next car - predictable short commutes, no range anxiety applies, etc.

But this is Ireland, still a predominantly rural country that relies hugely on private motor transport, we don’t have the infrastructure in place to support widespread EV adoption, so diesel will still be king for several more years imo.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

I am the poster referred to complaining of the depreciation on my 2016 330e.
Just had a quick look at my paperwork there before posting this morning.
Car was just over 58k on the road before grants. 7500 off for grants and vrt rebate. Dealer took off just over a grand on the price then to sell it out to me for 50k. this came off the value he had put on my trade in at.
They initially offered me 30k on a trade in this year against 530e and subsequently 33k. So loss of value of 17k but that is against another new BMW, so would probably get less if looking at other cars. To be honest I reckon this is actually a generous enough deal I was offered in the end.

Thanks for clearing it up in such a precise manner. And you have answered exactly what I was wondering, which is, if buying with the grant and other discounts you would need to consider the starting value of your car what you actually paid for it and not what it was priced before discounts. Although had the grant been pulled in the meantime, I think you would have been standing sweet. As it is the grant is there still and seems like it will continue for another while. So that is good if you are buying new (and even second hand it benefits the next buyer) but not great when you go to trade back in.

So in real terms you paid 50k and where offered 33K when you enquired about trading back in. This was after 18/24 months? As you said I think this was actually a decent deal. The major depreciation takes place over the first 12-18months and it begins to even out after that and your equity in the vehicle then starts to rise a bit over the next year or two. So for arguments sake, lets say you still owed 32K and you were being offered 33k, you had equity of 1K - but in another 18months your trade in offer will be less, lets say 27K, but you will only owe lets say 23K - so your equity rises to 4K. This is obviously only an illustration of how the equity you have in the car actually rises from the end of year 1 to the end of year 3 - your depreciation rate slows but your repayments stay consistent and the graph eventually starts to swing back your way a bit.
And the one good thing about PCP is you are protected against a complete bottoming out in the market at the end of the 3 years, because even if the car falls below that GMV - not your problem.

Please don't anyone get me wrong - I am not saying buying a new car is a sound investment. Owning a car in general (whatever age) is not a sound investment. Its a necessary evil :-)
I have just conceded to essentially renting my car, and I am just looking for the best deal for my money. And getting into a 3 Series M Sport for a tad over 40K seems very tempting, even considering the depreciation that takes place over the first 18 months. But as you said, any new car suffers that rate in the first 18 months, so its not particularly bad on this vehicle - thats just the horror part of buying ANY new car.
If I knew for sure that the grant would still be in place when the new 3 series gets releases in early 2019 I would sit tight and see what that has to offer price wise. It will be a big difference to the current model, I believe the battery will do the best part of 50miles - big difference there. But prices won't be released until near end of this year -

The real question for me is this - If I went with the current 330e and kept it for the 3 years on PCP and then looked at trading it for the new 330e, how close would the trade in value be to the GMV? The GMV is probably around 22,000 I guess - so what would BMW be offering me on a 3 year old, old model 330e? I guess nobody can answer that - so many factors to consider, but that is the real question for me. I'd like to have some equity in it at the end of 3 years and not have to come up with a full deposit again.
So what you reckon would a 3 year old 330e be worth more than the 21K/22K GMV?
I'd be happy if it had 3 or 4K in it towards the next car.

Elessar

A quick question please lads for those of you that have the 330e -

I read online that the car can self-charge the battery to 50%, but how realistically does it do this? Asking as I'm looking into buying one but I won't have the ability to readily plug it in and charge at home...I do a lot of short & urban driving...

Elessar

Elessar wrote: »

A quick question please lads for those of you that have the 330e -

I read online that the car can self-charge the battery to 50%, but how realistically does it do this? Asking as I'm looking into buying one but I won't have the ability to readily plug it in and charge at home...I do a lot of short & urban driving...

Regenerative braking presumably

carsfan2

ajamesr wrote: »

Thanks for clearing it up in such a precise manner. And you have answered exactly what I was wondering, which is, if buying with the grant and other discounts you would need to consider the starting value of your car what you actually paid for it and not what it was priced before discounts. Although had the grant been pulled in the meantime, I think you would have been standing sweet. As it is the grant is there still and seems like it will continue for another while. So that is good if you are buying new (and even second hand it benefits the next buyer) but not great when you go to trade back in.

So in real terms you paid 50k and where offered 33K when you enquired about trading back in. This was after 18/24 months? As you said I think this was actually a decent deal. The major depreciation takes place over the first 12-18months and it begins to even out after that and your equity in the vehicle then starts to rise a bit over the next year or two. So for arguments sake, lets say you still owed 32K and you were being offered 33k, you had equity of 1K - but in another 18months your trade in offer will be less, lets say 27K, but you will only owe lets say 23K - so your equity rises to 4K. This is obviously only an illustration of how the equity you have in the car actually rises from the end of year 1 to the end of year 3 - your depreciation rate slows but your repayments stay consistent and the graph eventually starts to swing back your way a bit.
And the one good thing about PCP is you are protected against a complete bottoming out in the market at the end of the 3 years, because even if the car falls below that GMV - not your problem.

Please don't anyone get me wrong - I am not saying buying a new car is a sound investment. Owning a car in general (whatever age) is not a sound investment. Its a necessary evil :-)
I have just conceded to essentially renting my car, and I am just looking for the best deal for my money. And getting into a 3 Series M Sport for a tad over 40K seems very tempting, even considering the depreciation that takes place over the first 18 months. But as you said, any new car suffers that rate in the first 18 months, so its not particularly bad on this vehicle - thats just the horror part of buying ANY new car.
If I knew for sure that the grant would still be in place when the new 3 series gets releases in early 2019 I would sit tight and see what that has to offer price wise. It will be a big difference to the current model, I believe the battery will do the best part of 50miles - big difference there. But prices won't be released until near end of this year -

The real question for me is this - If I went with the current 330e and kept it for the 3 years on PCP and then looked at trading it for the new 330e, how close would the trade in value be to the GMV? The GMV is probably around 22,000 I guess - so what would BMW be offering me on a 3 year old, old model 330e? I guess nobody can answer that - so many factors to consider, but that is the real question for me. I'd like to have some equity in it at the end of 3 years and not have to come up with a full deposit again.
So what you reckon would a 3 year old 330e be worth more than the 21K/22K GMV?
I'd be happy if it had 3 or 4K in it towards the next car.

I can’t tell the future but I think you would be doing well to come out with that equity on it in 3 years except if the dealer wants to incentivize you into the new model. BMW pcp deals seem to set the gfv too high for current realistic residual values.
Also have you talked to a dealer? Take a test drive. You may not like it. Very hard to buy a bog standard model without adding extras and the price will inevitably rise. Also the shadow edition is the one to get now not the m sport. There is still 3 month wait on cars from factory unless they have something in stock or on the way.

carsfan2

Elessar wrote: »

A quick question please lads for those of you that have the 330e -

I read online that the car can self-charge the battery to 50%, but how realistically does it do this? Asking as I'm looking into buying one but I won't have the ability to readily plug it in and charge at home...I do a lot of short & urban driving...

You put car in “save” mode and it uses the Petrol engine to charge the battery. Regenerative braking only gives very small amount of battery power.
It’s very uneconomical way to use the car, mpg plunges and to be honest if you have no facility to plug the car in I wouldn’t bother with one.

vintagevrs

Yeah I believe that save mode is designed for driving to areas where electric cars only are allowed. So city centre for example, you drive 50miles to get there in save mode and then you have some electric juice then to use when in the city centre.

Buying a plug in hybrid with out the facilty to charge it at night would not allow the car to work to it's potential.

JoeA3

Does it really matter ultimately what the GFV is? They presumably set it a bit higher in order to make the monthlies a bit more palatable, making it easier to talk people into the new cars. Set it lower and you’ll be paying significantly more every single month so it’s swings and roundabouts no? Ultimately you pay for it one way or the other! I did pretty well coming out of a VW PCP. A nice chunk of equity.
Currently on a BMW pcp now on a 171 420d. The GFV is about 20k - at which point the car will be 4 years old. I’m not expecting much equity to be left in it! But ultimately when I did the numbers the pcp offer seemed most attractive to me overall, despite the high probability I won’t have much equity in the end.

carsfan2

I agree with your outlook Joe But a lot of people expect pcp to leave them enough equity at the end to roll into the next car.
I think it should be looked at as the cost of the car over the period and any extra is a bonus.

In spite of the negativity over residual etc. I think 330e is a cracking package overall for many. However if I was buying again it would be a used version and if I wanted pcp then go for a demo or one less than a year old as there are savings here too.

ajamesr

JoeA3 wrote: »

Does it really matter ultimately what the GFV is? They presumably set it a bit higher in order to make the monthlies a bit more palatable, making it easier to talk people into the new cars. Set it lower and you’ll be paying significantly more every single month so it’s swings and roundabouts no? Ultimately you pay for it one way or the other! I did pretty well coming out of a VW PCP. A nice chunk of equity.
Currently on a BMW pcp now on a 171 420d. The GFV is about 20k - at which point the car will be 4 years old. I’m not expecting much equity to be left in it! But ultimately when I did the numbers the pcp offer seemed most attractive to me overall, despite the high probability I won’t have much equity in the end.

Yehh I think the GMV is a balancing act between keeping monthlies cheap but at the same time they can't set it too high because then they are committing to guaranteeing that price on a trade in (provided car in good nick and within milleage)
Set it too small and they are covered from the point of view on the trade in but the monthlies go up which might discourage sales.
Ideally they also want you to have some equity in it at the end so that you are not tempted to just hand keys back and walk away, they would like you to just carry it over.
So its a fine balancing act all round trying to predict what will happen in 3 years time. But I think they genuinely try to set it at a point where they predict you will have some equity to encourage repeat sales. But obviously they can't control the market either.
As I said earlier, at them moment I am happy to change every few years using the equity in the car I am handing back combined with a few quid cash to keep me in a new car with reasonable monthlies. I really just look at it like renting. But it would hurt a bit if at the end you had no equity left in vehicle and had to muster up an entire deposit to go again.
Thats why I was on this thread trying to figure out if the grant would help me with the equity at the end, but it appears probably not. Nice to talk it out though and get other opinions and thoughts.

And the GMV is also a little bit of a safety net if something in the market causes a serious depreciation in the market or even in the particular vehicle you have. You are essentially only financing the 3 year figure and the GMV is not your concern unless you want to pay that payment at the end to take ownership.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

However if I was buying again it would be a used version and if I wanted pcp then go for a demo or one less than a year old as there are savings here too.

I tried that before and they just ended up adjusting figures to essentially not make much difference to me. It was hard to get a straight answer with one sales guy and I remember getting really annoyed with him wanting to know exactly what the breakdown was, but he was just talking about what my monthly repayments would be.
I was like - "don't talk to be about monthly payments, thats my business and I will adjust my deposit to suit what I want to pay monthly, what I want to know from you is how much you are giving me on my trade in and how much you are selling me the new car for?" He kept avoiding the question. Turned out when I got to the bottom of it he was adjusting my trade in value based on whether I was buying a new car or 1 year old, and I was getting more trade in value on the new one than the 1 year old. And between all the jigs and reels the new one was better value.
So it looks like they will massage figures to sell the new car rather than the 1 year old, but that may change as second hand cars flood the market.
And interest rates on new cars tend to be better than on the second hand ones.

JoeA3

carsfan2 wrote: »

I agree with your outlook Joe But a lot of people expect pcp to leave them enough equity at the end to roll into the next car.
I think it should be looked at as the cost of the car over the period and any extra is a bonus.

In spite of the negativity over residual etc. I think 330e is a cracking package overall for many. However if I was buying again it would be a used version and if I wanted pcp then go for a demo or one less than a year old as there are savings here too.

I’d be very surprised if you really have zero equity in your car at the end of term. That’s a scenario that suits neither you nor the BMW dealers! They want to you to have that warm fuzzy feeling and sign up to buying a new car off them - you walking in and handing over the keys is not what they want imo!

That was my experience with VW. Ultimately I didn’t see through the deal in the end but I was getting what I thought was a strong deal - the dealers were falling over themselves to tempt me into the new car.

Time will tell

MarkN

ajamesr wrote: »

I tried that before and they just ended up adjusting figures to essentially not make much difference to me. It was hard to get a straight answer with one sales guy and I remember getting really annoyed with him wanting to know exactly what the breakdown was, but he was just talking about what my monthly repayments would be.
I was like - "don't talk to be about monthly payments, thats my business and I will adjust my deposit to suit what I want to pay monthly, what I want to know from you is how much you are giving me on my trade in and how much you are selling me the new car for?" He kept avoiding the question. Turned out when I got to the bottom of it he was adjusting my trade in value based on whether I was buying a new car or 1 year old, and I was getting more trade in value on the new one than the 1 year old. And between all the jigs and reels the new one was better value.
So it looks like they will massage figures to sell the new car rather than the 1 year old, but that may change as second hand cars flood the market.
And interest rates on new cars tend to be better than on the second hand ones.

Nothing new in this. More room for discount on a new car so more can be offered on your trade in.

carsfan2

JoeA3 wrote: »

I’d be very surprised if you really have zero equity in your car at the end of term. That’s a scenario that suits neither you nor the BMW dealers! They want to you to have that warm fuzzy feeling and sign up to buying a new car off them - you walking in and handing over the keys is not what they want imo!

That was my experience with VW. Ultimately I didn’t see through the deal in the end but I was getting what I thought was a strong deal - the dealers were falling over themselves to tempt me into the new car.

Time will tell

Well my gfv is 24.5k so even if the dealer offers 28k in 18 months time towards a new BMW giving me 3/4k of equity, as things stand I can pick up a UK BMW approved car saving 10k plus on what dealers price them here. They will have to offer same as they are now to make it worth my while...
that said, if sterling becomes substantially stronger then everything changes for the car market here.

mickdw

I'd imagine buying new 330e now would be a residual disaster. Going back with an old model 330e in 3 years time would surely be a guaranteed zero equity situation.
To be honest going back with any old model will leave you high and dry equity wise in most cars. That is why it's very important to have eyes open going into a new car purchase regardless of how it is financed.
If you want a pcp to go well, buy a recently introduced model thereby guaranteeing that it's still current at 3 years old.

ajamesr

mickdw wrote: »

I'd imagine buying new 330e now would be a residual disaster. Going back with an old model 330e in 3 years time would surely be a guaranteed zero equity situation.
To be honest going back with any old model will leave you high and dry equity wise in most cars. That is why it's very important to have eyes open going into a new car purchase regardless of how it is financed.
If you want a pcp to go well, buy a recently introduced model thereby guaranteeing that it's still current at 3 years old.

You make good sense here, but I wonder if Dealer takes that into account that any particular model would be replaced at the end of 3 years when setting GMV? Surely its in their interest to be realistic as possible with this to encourage a roll over. Personally I would prefer if they would let you set your own GMV lower and increase monthlies - that way you are giving yourself a better chance of having some equity at the end.
It seems that GMV on M Sport is somewhere between 22 and 24K - I'm not sure if optional extras affect the GMV (they didn't when I got my last car) but if GMV is 22K for one of these after 3 years - you would think that is enough room to give you some equity?

And interestingly when I look at 330e on some sales sites they are still up there price wise. 2016 is the oldest available (I think) and they are still starting around 33/34K for a sport saloon, not even an M Sport. Can't find 2016 M Sport to compare except in UK. Oldest M SPort I can see is 171 and its at 37K I think.
I know thats not what you get on trade in, quite a bit less, but its hardly a complete disaster as far as first and second year depreciation goes. Or maybe I'm just trying to look through tinted glasses :-)

JoeA3

Optional extras generally have no bearing on the GMV... There's always the odd exception, e.g. the DSG gearbox on VW's usually bumps up the GMV but no other option does. So it's always best to go for the car that has most of the options you want already fitted - e.g. in the case of BMW, go for the M-Sport rather than the Sport + $$$ in extras...

As for a new model coming out, I generally wouldn't be overly concerned about that for the first year to 18 months of the new model's release. The "old" model will still be in vogue and reasonably current for a fair while after the new one comes along.

carsfan2

@ajeamesr, have you driven a 330e or spoken to a dealer about one yet?
Do you think it will suit your driving pattern? Do you need a big boot because the 330e is a bit smaller than regular 3 series at 330 liters.
As regards resale, remember that dealers can ask what they like, doesn’t mean they will get it?
When I bought my car, he said I should have 5/6 grand of equity at the end implying 30/31k value at trade in. I don’t see this as a realistic figure since Sterling started to slide but I could be wrong.
If you think it is for you take a drive and talk numbers with the dealer.
What do you drive now and do you hope to trade it in?

mickdw

ajamesr wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

I'd imagine buying new 330e now would be a residual disaster. Going back with an old model 330e in 3 years time would surely be a guaranteed zero equity situation.
To be honest going back with any old model will leave you high and dry equity wise in most cars. That is why it's very important to have eyes open going into a new car purchase regardless of how it is financed.
If you want a pcp to go well, buy a recently introduced model thereby guaranteeing that it's still current at 3 years old.

You make good sense here, but I wonder if Dealer takes that into account that any particular model would be replaced at the end of 3 years when setting GMV? Surely its in their interest to be realistic as possible with this to encourage a roll over. Personally I would prefer if they would let you set your own GMV lower and increase monthlies - that way you are giving yourself a better chance of having some equity at the end.
It seems that GMV on M Sport is somewhere between 22 and 24K - I'm not sure if optional extras affect the GMV (they didn't when I got my last car) but if GMV is 22K for one of these after 3 years - you would think that is enough room to give you some equity?

And interestingly when I look at 330e on some sales sites they are still up there price wise. 2016 is the oldest available (I think) and they are still starting around 33/34K for a sport saloon, not even an M Sport. Can't find 2016 M Sport to compare except in UK. Oldest M SPort I can see is 171 and its at 37K I think.
I know thats not what you get on trade in, quite a bit less, but its hardly a complete disaster as far as first and second year depreciation goes. Or maybe I'm just trying to look through tinted glasses :-)

I don't believe that gfv is adjusted towards end of model run. That would surely give too many warning bells for would be buyers. Basically pay more monthly to cover up the loss due to being an old model when you come back. It would make the run out cars a very poor proposition.
Salemen don't ever acknowledge a new model anyway until it appears on the forecourt.
looking at asking prices for used ones is really no indication of anything.
BMW dealers appear to be taking the piss with trade ins. They would offer about 26k against retail for a car that goes on the forecourt for 34k

carsfan2

mickdw wrote: »

I don't believe that gfv is adjusted towards end of model run. That would surely give too many warning bells for would be buyers. Basically pay more monthly to cover up the loss due to being an old model when you come back. It would make the run out cars a very poor proposition.
Salemen don't ever acknowledge a new model anyway until it appears on the forecourt.
looking at asking prices for used ones is really no indication of anything.
BMW dealers appear to be taking the piss with trade ins. They would offer about 26k against retail for a car that goes on the forecourt for 34k

This is why I asked what/if poster was driving or trading in.
As there may well be a shock in store for what they offer against a 330e.
BMW dealers take the mickey by and large in my experience even on returning customers. What another dealer will give you for your trade in might be a lot more attractive.

kooga

Great thread just two questions
If you bought a 330e on the uk is it exempt from vrt when you reg it here
And
Can it just be driven around in petrol mode ?
Thank you

bazz26

kooga wrote: »

Great thread just two questions
If you bought a 330e on the uk is it exempt from vrt when you reg it here
And
Can it just be driven around in petrol mode ?
Thank you

No it's not exempt from VRT but it does qualify for the VRT rebate of 2.5k so the VRT figure is lower.

Maybe a bit pointless owning the car if you don't have the facility to charge it. While a 320i won't qualify for a VRT rebate and is down on the combined power of the ICE and battery, it might cost less to buy. It weighs less so fuel economy might be slightly better than the 330e on petrol only?

carsfan2

Not sure on the vrt query but I think it is very small vrt to import and I think the rebate still appplies but reduced depending on age of car. Open to correction on that.

You can drive car in Petrol mode and this is what happens when the electric reserve drains. It then becomes essentially like a Lexus type hybrid using regenerative braking etc to run on electric when possible. The car also will always keep some battery in reserve so when you put your foot down you get electric power as well as petrol. This gives great acceleration as the electric torque comes in instantly to supplement the engine.the car generates the equivalent of 310lb ft of torque low down so the shove is instant. Makes the car rapid enough in day to day driving.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

@ajeamesr, have you driven a 330e or spoken to a dealer about one yet?
Do you think it will suit your driving pattern? Do you need a big boot because the 330e is a bit smaller than regular 3 series at 330 liters.
As regards resale, remember that dealers can ask what they like, doesn’t mean they will get it?
When I bought my car, he said I should have 5/6 grand of equity at the end implying 30/31k value at trade in. I don’t see this as a realistic figure since Sterling started to slide but I could be wrong.
If you think it is for you take a drive and talk numbers with the dealer.
What do you drive now and do you hope to trade it in?

I work in auto industry & get to sit in, have a good look around & drive plenty variety of cars. You are spot on about size of boot and even the rear seats I might add. Better than the C Class though. That thing is a joke size wise. I love the look of the c class in AMG styling but I found the inside too small & im not a fan of the vents which dominate the dash. But it’s just me and my wife, no kids, so the boot size of the 330 is ok. But it’s a huge step down from what I have. An Octavia VRS. It’s HUGE inside.
I absolutely love it. No panic of hurry to change but when we had a beautiful version of the 330e in the other day it really caught my eye & then when the guy told be how much he was paying with the grant & current sterling offer - I just started looking into it a bit.
There is about 19 or 20K finance to settle on mine & its 18 months old. So I’m not sure what I would get on trade in. Probably best waiting for another 12 months as that would give me more equity in what I have due to slower rate of depreciation compared to the first 18 months. And I’m always putting a little aside to put towards that equity for the next trade up. Last time I put 3k with the equity I had in last car & id prob look to do something similar again. But the 0% finance I got of Skoda last time around was a great bonus. That was why I switched that time and it was a good move.

JoeA3

ajamesr wrote: »

I work in auto industry & get to sit in, have a good look around & drive plenty variety of cars. You are spot on about size of boot and even the rear seats I might add. Better than the C Class though. That thing is a joke size wise. I love the look of the c class in AMG styling but I found the inside too small & im not a fan of the vents which dominate the dash. But it’s just me and my wife, no kids, so the boot size of the 330 is ok. But it’s a huge step down from what I have. An Octavia VRS. It’s HUGE inside.
I absolutely love it. No panic of hurry to change but when we had a beautiful version of the 330e in the other day it really caught my eye & then when the guy told be how much he was paying with the grant & current sterling offer - I just started looking into it a bit.
There is about 19 or 20K finance to settle on mine & its 18 months old. So I’m not sure what I would get on trade in. Probably best waiting for another 12 months as that would give me more equity in what I have due to slower rate of depreciation compared to the first 18 months. And I’m always putting a little aside to put towards that equity for the next trade up. Last time I put 3k with the equity I had in last car & id prob look to do something similar again. But the 0% finance I got of Skoda last time around was a great bonus. That was why I switched that time and it was a good move.

It’s a wonder / pity they haven’t done the 30e variant in the 4 series. Having owned one for the last 6 weeks or so, the boot space is one of my favourite features :pac: It’s Octavia-esque in proportions...

BMW are unfortunately nowhere near the VAG group with the finance rates. No danger of getting a 0% PCP on a bmw I’m afraid. The finance lady in the dealers I was in said “ah we are premium, we don’t need to compete with VW finance... “ :rolleyes:

mickdw

I still think a 330e makes sense even if never plugged in.
It's a much more powerful car than a 320i and the petrol engine in the 330e will still keep enough charge in battery to give all that power when needed even without plugging in.
A used one from UK with about 2k vrt is hard to argue with.
Mercedes c350e likewise.
I do believe the 530e and the Mercedes e350e would be stunning cars though.

billy few mates

kooga wrote: »

Great thread just two questions
If you bought a 330e on the uk is it exempt from vrt when you reg it here
And
Can it just be driven around in petrol mode ?
Thank you

Unless you spend your life living, working and commuting around a very small area, that's essentially what you'll be doing. The miniscule electric range was one of the things that put me off, but having said that it was a nice car to drive in either mode.

The issue about the last of the old shape will become more apparent if you try to sell the car on second hand in a few years time, unless you price it to sell, potential buyers will always try to find a few extra bob to get themselves into the newer model...

kooga

billy few mates wrote: »

Unless you spend your life living, working and commuting around a very small area, that's essentially what you'll be doing. The miniscule electric range was one of the things that put me off, but having said that it was a nice car to drive in either mode.

The issue about the last of the old shape will become more apparent if you try to sell the car on second hand in a few years time, unless you price it to sell, potential buyers will always try to find a few extra bob to get themselves into the newer model...

very hard to look beyond the uk to buy one nice m sports from nov 2016 starting for £23k add in €2,500 in vrt.

vintagevrs

Think you can subtract 2k from that vrt calculation.


https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/repayment-or-remission-of-vrt.aspx

ajamesr

kooga wrote: »

very hard to look beyond the uk to buy one nice m sports from nov 2016 starting for £23k add in €2,500 in vrt.

In theory yes, in practice, I'm not so sure. Most people will be financing this amount of money - even if you had it in the bank it is very debatable whether just dropping that amount of cash is the best way to use your money - so if everyone is financing that amount, the interest rates when buying in this manner aren't as competitive as the rates from many of the car dealerships - I'm currently on 0% with VW Bank. So any initial savings may well be eaten up in interest. Also its a risk to take spending this much money with a dealership or even private seller in another country if you have a problem and need to go back to them. It is a comfort when you buy local to know you can just run it in any day if there is an issue. And I can think of a few other advantages to buying local that could make it worth while to spend a bit extra.
I have bought in England before but only spent about 10K on a 2004 D4D Avensis which I wasn't financing. It worked out well although the few problems I had with the car afterwards was a bit frustrating that I coudln't just take back in to seller, but it wasn't anything major - except for the headlights which had a factory recall that mine never got and that stung a bit.
Spending the 10K mark I'd be happy to take the risk, when its getting up around 30 and 40K's I'm a bit more reluctant and I can't avail of PCP (which is working well for me) if I go abroad.
And with a car like the 330e, it may well require frequent enough trips back to dealer for updates etc, and while I know that your local dealer cannot turn away the car as they are the Merc Dealer (or whatever Dealer), I just feel you get better service and looked after better if you are a buying customer.
So I don't think its as clear cut as " its cheaper in Engand with exchange rate and Vrt paid" - I think there are other factors that come into equation that make it less clear cut - but still something consider.

stesaurus

vintagevrs wrote: »

Think you can subtract 2k from that vrt calculation.


https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/calculating-vrt/repayment-or-remission-of-vrt.aspx

That's with the vrt rebate included. VRT is 14% on the OMSP so before the rebate you're looking at between 30-40k OMSP for a 330e

JoeA3

^^^ Personally I'd agree ^^^

Perhaps I'm foolish but I place a high value on having local convenient support if/when something goes wrong, especially with a car in that kind of price bracket. And there's also the challenges re finance that you've mentioned that make shopping across the water not particularly feasible for many.

vintagevrs

There's very few 2nd hand 330e in Ireland. There is a 2016m sport and the asking price is 39k, and it's a private sale. Granted it's just an asking price but to give an idea of savings....

A lower millage 16 330e m sport could be bought for 27k euro. I do agree on the extra convenience of buying locally, but not to the tune of 10k +

vintagevrs

stesaurus wrote: »

That's with the vrt rebate included. VRT is 14% on the OMSP so before the rebate you're looking at between 30-40k OMSP for a 330e

You're spot on. 14% of 30k is about 4.5k. minus the 2 rebate and your down to 2.5 ish.


The calculator doesn't mention the rebate but as you say it is inlcuded. Thanks

billy few mates

billy few mates wrote: »

Unless you spend your life living, working and commuting around a very small area, that's essentially what you'll be doing. The miniscule electric range was one of the things that put me off, but having said that it was a nice car to drive in either mode.

...........

What mpg could one expect without plugging in though?

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

There's very few 2nd hand 330e in Ireland. There is a 2016m sport and the asking price is 39k, and it's a private sale. Granted it's just an asking price but to give an idea of savings....

A lower millage 16 330e m sport could be bought for 27k euro. I do agree on the extra convenience of buying locally, but not to the tune of 10k +

Kinda not like for like seeing as you get a brand new model M Sport for 40K compared to a 2 year old model from UK for 27K - so its 13K extra for a 2 year younger model with no KM. And you get the extra warranty with the new model also. And you are certain of its origin and history, compared to that lingering doubt when you buy second hand - I've been there, and know others that got stung when history became clear.
Keep in mind also that depending how you finance it, their could be considerable interest more on the Loan for the UK one compared to say PCP or even normal finance from a local dealer. So that extra interest eats into the "savings" you make initially.

And all that is not taking into consideration your starting point - do you have a car to trade in? Most would. Likely to be a pretty new car also, maybe 3 years old - so still in the 20K bracket - hard to sell privately. And is that car in a PCP finance package or other package that makes it a bit difficult to sell privately.
Getting the equity out of your current vehicle is not that easy in practice - trading in can hurt, but it saves a lot of time and time wasters coming looking at your car.

ajamesr

Augeo wrote: »

What mpg could one expect without plugging in though?

Low 30's I have seen mentioned - but the reports vary a lot. But low 30's was the worst case scenario I saw.