BMW 330e

carsfan2

ajamesr wrote: »

Kinda not like for like seeing as you get a brand new model M Sport for 40K compared to a 2 year old model from UK for 27K - so its 13K extra for a 2 year younger model with no KM. And you get the extra warranty with the new model also. And you are certain of its origin and history, compared to that lingering doubt when you buy second hand - I've been there, and know others that got stung when history became clear.
Keep in mind also that depending how you finance it, their could be considerable interest more on the Loan for the UK one compared to say PCP or even normal finance from a local dealer. So that extra interest eats into the "savings" you make initially.

And all that is not taking into consideration your starting point - do you have a car to trade in? Most would. Likely to be a pretty new car also, maybe 3 years old - so still in the 20K bracket - hard to sell privately. And is that car in a PCP finance package or other package that makes it a bit difficult to sell privately.
Getting the equity out of your current vehicle is not that easy in practice - trading in can hurt, but it saves a lot of time and time wasters coming looking at your car.

The thing is you won't get new m sport for 40k here. It's 41k before minimum delivery, metallic,service pack and then that is before you add any extras which, believe me you will want.
However,I do agree with your point over buying locally for the reasons you have outlined.

carsfan2

Augeo wrote: »

What mpg could one expect without plugging in though?

I have driven a few days without plugging in, and low to mid 40's in mixed driving.
Drove Dublin to Limerick on zero battery too, 43mpg overall and that was 130/140km p/h on motorway

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

The thing is you won't get new m sport for 40k here. It's 41k before minimum delivery, metallic,service pack and then that is before you add any extras which, believe me you will want.
However,I do agree with your point over buying locally for the reasons you have outlined.

The one that I saw the other day was 40,800 out the door and it looked pretty well loaded for that price, I mean M Sport comes with decent spec. But fair point on extras.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

I have driven a few days without plugging in, and low to mid 40's in mixed driving.
Drove Dublin to Limerick on zero battery too, 43mpg overall and that was 130/140km p/h on motorway

Very interesting.

vintagevrs

BMW website is pretty poor for navigating around. I can't even find the 330e on the configuration page. I remember it was separate from the 3 series range before in the "e" or "i" range but not there now.

ajamesr

vintagevrs wrote: »

BMW website is pretty poor for navigating around. I can't even find the 330e on the configuration page. I remember it was separate from the 3 series range before in the "e" or "i" range but not there now.

No more builds available I've been told. All that is available now is what has already been built. SO that kinda sucks when you are considering that kind of money.

bazz26

I priced up a 330e M Sport Shadow Edition last year and even with conservatively choosing a few extras the car was coming in at 54k before the grants. I cannot imagine a brand new M Sport that's costing 40k or 41k having much in the way of spec. They really are sparse and premium brands are designed so that you head straight to the options list.

Also I'd have no trouble buying a 6 or 12 month old example from the UK as it will still have the balance of the BMW warranty which is valid over here. Of course if you have a car to offload over here or availing of PCP then that's a different matter.

Mooooo

Do banks give finance if buying in the UK?

R.O.R

vintagevrs wrote: »

BMW website is pretty poor for navigating around. I can't even find the 330e on the configuration page. I remember it was separate from the 3 series range before in the "e" or "i" range but not there now.

Still there - https://www.bmw.ie/en/ssl/configurator.html#/ZLEM/S02TE/F30P/esl/new/ should take you too it.

Configurator pricing is before the €5,000 SEAI Grant, the €2,500 VRT Rebate, and the 9% Sterling offer discount.

ajamesr

bazz26 wrote: »

I priced up a 330e M Sport Shadow Edition last year and even with conservatively choosing a few extras the car was coming in at 54k before the grants. I cannot imagine a brand new M Sport that's costing 40k or 41k having much in the way of spec. They really are sparse and premium brands are designed so that you head straight to the options list.

You may be right on that. I didn't see a spec sheet for it or spend too much time checking what it did or didn't have but it looked fantastic in the dark grey colour and the leather seats looked and felt fantastic, and obviously the M Sport styling - But I was surprised when i spent a few minutes playing around on website that there are quite a few options that didn't seem standard such as folding mirrors etc - compared to my VRS which is heavily spec'd at a much cheaper price.
I think the one he had was about 54K - then the 9% off then the 7500 off - So at 54K, it might have included some options? I'm not sure.

ajamesr

R.O.R wrote: »

Still there - https://www.bmw.ie/en/ssl/configurator.html#/ZLEM/S02TE/F30P/esl/new/ should take you too it.

Configurator pricing is before the €5,000 SEAI Grant, the €2,500 VRT Rebate, and the 9% Sterling offer discount.

Ohh brilliant - thanks. I couldn't find that the other day. You just wasted the next hour of my life :-)

ajamesr

OK. So 54120 is base price for M Sport - Less 9% 4870.80 Less 7500 = 41750 - I guess the 40800 I was told was before delivery charge maybe? And it would seem that is for whatever the M SPort comes with as standard, no extras. And these days I don't hear too many getting any budge on price when trading in, the negotiation seems to be based soley on the trade in price.

mickdw

Mooooo wrote: »

Do banks give finance if buying in the UK?

Would depend somewhat on your standing with them.
If they were happy to give you an unsecured loan, well you could do as you wished with it. This was very common in the past.
If they will only give you car finance, they may want to issue payment direct to dealer in ireland

Heres Johnny

ajamesr wrote: »

OK. So 54120 is base price for M Sport - Less 9% 4870.80 Less 7500 = 41750 - I guess the 40800 I was told was before delivery charge maybe? And it would seem that is for whatever the M SPort comes with as standard, no extras. And these days I don't hear too many getting any budge on price when trading in, the negotiation seems to be based soley on the trade in price.

I priced one up in joe duffy and in addition to grant and 9% sterling the salesman offered me another 2k off. Mine was 56k after I ticked an option or 2 and after discounts it was 42k.

ajamesr

www.bmw.ie/myconfig/x6g5c7h6

I'd be happy with this :-) 55361
42878 after all discounts. And fingers crossed maybe a bit more from sales guy

At that price it still lacks folding mirrors, upgraded speaker system, headlight wash, rear camera (although I have that and never use it, simple bips will do me) and apple car play
But the upgrades include Split seats, tint, armrest, wood trim and wheels upgrade.
I'm confused whether sat nav is included - but i think it is.

Dont think I have enough equity in mine right now to go for this, but if I had it would be very tempting.

JoeA3

ajamesr wrote: »

www.bmw.ie/myconfig/x6g5c7h6

I'd be happy with this :-) 55361
42878 after all discounts. And fingers crossed maybe a bit more from sales guy

At that price it still lacks folding mirrors, upgraded speaker system, headlight wash, rear camera (although I have that and never use it, simple bips will do me) and apple car play
But the upgrades include Split seats, tint, armrest, wood trim and wheels upgrade.
I'm confused whether sat nav is included - but i think it is.

Dont think I have enough equity in mine right now to go for this, but if I had it would be very tempting.

The M-Sport Plus pack and the Pro Navigation are 2 "essentials" imo.

The former will give you the upgraded wheels + the upgraded HK audio (the standard audio is very poor by all accounts).

carsfan2

I would agree with Joe. m sport plus pack is a package that has residual value so if buying on pcp doesn't put up monthly much but better off buying a shadow edition as it has the m sport plus pack kit included as standard.
Also,I find it hard to believe that BMW won't continue or even improve their offers after March as I believe sales are down this year.

ajamesr

Whats the pro nav compared to the standard Nav?

carsfan2

Bigger, wide screen sat nav with a touch screen and touch I drive controller,
HDD to store music on and can play dvd's also.
connected drive services for 3 years too.
Might be more too but can't remember. The bigger screen is a lot better than the standard.

billy few mates

What’s the shadow edition...?

ajamesr

It seems that the online BMW PCP examples charge interest on the entire value of the car rather than the entire value less the GMV.
My understanding, and my current plan, is that if you are buying car for say 40000 with a GMV of say 15000, then you make repayments on the 40000 - 15000 = 25000 and therefore the interest rate etc is based on the 25000.
But the examples on the BMW site seem to charge interest on the entire 40000 or something else

Their example is:
59078 - 17723 deposite = 41354 GMV:21104 But in this example the say the monthlies over 36 months @ 8.4% are 777 - That can't be right can it. The 8.4% seems contrary to % mentioned elsewhere, but my main confusion is how they get to 777 even allowing for the 8.4%
I tried 2 different online PCP calculators and they give about 640 monthlies when I input the exact same figures.
How are BMW calculating their PCP?

ajamesr

billy few mates wrote: »

What’s the shadow edition...?

I've just been looking into it. Few more optional extras as standard, but the styling is the main thing, darker accents all around including black grille, black mirrors, black out tail pipes, larger brake discs and darker tint glass in all the lights - just a slightly sportier and more menacing look.

carsfan2

Ignore the calculator on the Bmw configurator it is always set at 8.4%.
Currently they charge 4.9% on 3 series.
Interest on a pcp is always calculated on the whole amount borrowed which obviously includes the gfv.
When you do a pcp with Bmw on the pcp, they use the 5k grant as part of your deposit which complicates it more. You need to get a dealer quote of your spec car to get a proper picture of the figures really

carsfan2

billy few mates wrote: »

What’s the shadow edition...?

Shadow edition is m sport spec with the plus pack kit of 19” alloys and blue m sport brakes, sun protection glass and the Harman kardon sound system. In addition then there are black wing mirrors, tail pipes and dark tinted headlights and tail lights.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

Interest on a pcp is always calculated on the whole amount borrowed which obviously includes the gfv.

Not on my current plan, and not on 2 online calculators I use. Its one of the reasons that PCP works out cheaper than other options, which of course do charge interest on the entire amount.
I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that interest is only supposed to be charged on the amount less the GMV.

Fair point about the Grant being considered part of the deposit, never thought of that. But thats not the issue in this example.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

Ignore the calculator on the Bmw configurator it is always set at 8.4%.

What a strange thing to do. Aren't they concerned about losing out on potential customers because of this?
And why isn't the grant amount being pushed more by the car companies that sell PHEV's - hardly any of them mention its availability? Wouldn't it drive more sales to push it more?

ajamesr

From an Irish Independent article on PCP workings:

"The amount you repay over the term of the contract is the difference between the price of the car and its guaranteed future value. This is the reason the repayments are lower than on other forms of finance, as you are essentially renting the car - what you are paying for monthly is the amount based on what the car is predicted to lose over the course of the contract, rather than the car's total price, plus some interest."

Am I misunderstanding this?

ajamesr

Apologies. I found another article which clearly states that interest is charged on the entire amount. The online cals I have used are obviously not allowing for this.
https://goodcalculators.com/pcp-car-loan-calculator/

And my current plan is 0% so its hard to tell from that I guess :-)

So the 36 months payments is on the total less the GMV - but the interest is on the entire total?

vintagevrs

You 100% pay interest on the gfmv, as it's money you have borrowed.

It's part of the reason pcp rates can be less than hp rates often giving the illusion of better value than they actually are.

For example plenty of manufacturers will still offer hp. Vw for example might be 6% and pcp on same car is 2%.

On the HP you are paying off more of the loan sooner, therefore if the interest rates were the same the amount the interest costs would be less on HP. So a lower pcp often looks better on paper but in reality isn't as good as it looks.

In the example I gave of 2% pcp and 6% HP, you do not pay triple the interest over the term on HP. They work out quite close sometimes, usually pcp still cheaper, just not 3x cheaper.

ajamesr

http://www.pcpcal.co.uk/index.php

Seems to calculate it properly.

mickdw

On a pcp you actually borrow the full price of the car less any deposit. There is no magic. You also repay the full amount like any other loan however on pcp there is a large single payment left til the end.
So yes you pay interest on the gfv amount as it's still money you borrowed day one and still outstanding all the way to end of year 3.
As mentioned by someone above, pcp rates need to be low to allow for this as like for like setting aside a large portion of your loan for three years / paying interest only on that portion for 3 years is very expensive compared to more traditional loan that is paid off in a linear manner.
Pcp is excellent on zero percent. Pcp at 7 or 8 percent is about the worst way you could buy. Many used car dealers are now offering pcp at these kind of rates and to be honest, the figures make no sense and in general a hp deal would be better all round.

carsfan2

@ajamesr, I don’t want to put you off , but the car you’re in, the vrs is an excellent car and at 0% you’re doing well.
I would hold on to it unless you just fancy a change as financially the best option would be to keep what you have.

ajamesr

carsfan2 wrote: »

@ajamesr, I don’t want to put you off , but the car you’re in, the vrs is an excellent car and at 0% you’re doing well.
I would hold on to it unless you just fancy a change as financially the best option would be to keep what you have.

Yehh, I'm coming around to that thinking. Just with the grant and the 9% I wanted to weigh up options, but not looking worth while. And I do love the VRS. no hurry to change it.

Voodoomelon

So in regards the 9%, is it a genuine offer or are they up to their old tricks again and clawing most of it back through a high PCP rate?

ajamesr

It looks genuine in that its still 4.9% which is about their usual rate I think. At the end of the day if the car is priced at 53K, which an MSport would be, you are getting almost 5K off with the 9% and another 7500 with VRT discount and grant, bringing it to about 41K - which is in my mind a decent deal. But as many have pointed out the value of the car a year or 2 from time of purchase will most likely be depreciating from the 41K price point rather than the 53K price point. So a car that on paper cost 53K, might only fetch 26K 2 years later.
Keep in mind they are setting the GMV on this at 22K. That GMV it seems to me is based on 53K -

But so many variables its hard to predict this one. What effect will brexit have? What effect will new 3 Series model have which is out next year sometime? How long will grant be around? How will Irish market be affected by Diesel regs that might kick in coming year or 2? How will market be affected by huge amounts of decent quailty second hand cars flooding forecourts as PCP cars start coming back in huge numbers?
All these things could improve your equity or make it take a hit. Either way - as mentioned many times, buying a car, particularly a new car, is never an investment - but its worth trying your best to protect yourself as much you can.

BuzzFish

Hi Folks,
Looking to source a 330e at the minute in the UK and looking to get one with active cruise. The problem is the terminology seems to vary wildly. Also, I believe active cruise is not an option on the M Sport due to the grill not accommodating the radar. Is this true?
Is "Cruise Control with Brake Function and Speed Limiting Function" active Cruise Control? The new car configurator on the BMW site lists "Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go" as the option but when looking on motors or autotrader I see a variety of:

• Cruise control (standard)
• Cruise control with active braking (which I assume is cruise that brakes automatically on downhill or when I hit resume after speeding up)
• Cruise Control with Brake Function and Speed Limiting Function 
• Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go

It's the last 2 confusing me. Are they the same thing or can someone explain the difference please?
Thanks.

vintagevrs

BuzzFish wrote: »

Hi Folks,
Looking to source a 330e at the minute in the UK and looking to get one with active cruise. The problem is the terminology seems to vary wildly. Also, I believe active cruise is not an option on the M Sport due to the grill not accommodating the radar. Is this true?
Is "Cruise Control with Brake Function and Speed Limiting Function" active Cruise Control? The new car configurator on the BMW site lists "Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go" as the option but when looking on motors or autotrader I see a variety of:

• Cruise control (standard)
• Cruise control with active braking (which I assume is cruise that brakes automatically on downhill or when I hit resume after speeding up)
• Cruise Control with Brake Function and Speed Limiting Function 
• Active Cruise Control with Stop and Go

It's the last 2 confusing me. Are they the same thing or can someone explain the difference please?
Thanks.

First one is basic cruise, if you end up going down hill the car will not apply the brakes to maintain the speed. It only regulates throttle.

2nd one can brake going down hill.

3rd one allows you to set a speed limiter, separate function really from cruise. For example, set the limiter at 50kph and drive around town as normal. The car will not exceed 50 kph


The last one is the one you're looking for.

JoeA3

I'm pretty sure M-Sport is not an obstacle to having the Active cruise system. As is the way with BMW though, its an expensive factory option when new and you might struggle to find a car with it spec'd.

BuzzFish

Thanks for the quick feedback. Much appreciated.

bazz26

Active Cruise Control was defiantly on the options list last year when I specced a M Sport Shadow Edition up.

carsfan2

Apparently , current 330e will end production in July along with the 530e due to non conformity with new WLTP emissions regulations.
530e will resume once sorted to conform, but with the new 3 series model coming next year they are not going to restart current 330e.

BuzzFish

carsfan2 wrote: »

Apparently , current 330e will end production in July along with the 530e due to non conformity with new WLTP emissions regulations.
530e will resume once sorted to conform, but with the new 3 series model coming next year they are not going to restart current 330e.

Have you a source for this you can share?

carsfan2

BuzzFish wrote: »

Have you a source for this you can share?

It is mentioned on this thread on pistonheads. people unable to order one now unless already a car in the system that can be amended.
page 183 of thread.


https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1562704&i=3640

carsfan2

more general thread here.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=1720220

mickdw

Slightly off topic but BMW seem to have lost the run of themselves with latest figures on 520d
Advert states on the road price 45595.
Gfv 24238.

That's a Gfv of 53 percent of current new pricing.
This appears nuts to me.
Currently there are numerous BMW customers going back at end of term with little to no equity and that is on deals where Gfv was nearer to 40 percent.
I know current pricing is reduced so may look a bit more sensible versus full retail but even calculating Gfv against the full retail price, it's still 48 percent.
These are terrible deals and I can only see BMW losing customers in the long term.
They are offering a new 520d for 350 per month with 13k deposit.

carsfan2

You could approach it as a glorified private lease deal Mick, expect no equity and hand it back.
The cash price quoted is reduced even from the sterling price so I am guessing these are pre reg or basic stock cars. It is only joe Duffy I see running these ads.

mickdw

Absolutely however I very much doubt that they are informing people that they are pretty much guaranteed to have nothing equity wise at end.
It's still 26k over 3 years to use the car. It's far from cheap but pushing the monthly that low just seems to me to target customers who can't really afford that car.
It's a nice deal if throwing in a lump sum every 3 years suited someone.
I've argued here that the likes of BMW will have to move to small deposit deals shortly due to these cars coming back with zero equity.
The high gfv and discount pricing is a step towards this imo.

carsfan2

Well back in 2010, I bought a new f10 520d.
The sales man said at the time that they would lose 8k a year for the first three years, and that was at a time when they were new and sought after and before everything devalued hugely like in the last year and a half.
The figures for the new 5 from that offer aren’t wildly different.
I’m not saying it’s a good thing however. Just reality.

Heres Johnny

So you're looking at 13000 + (350*36) which is about 26k for 3 years. Plus you would want to be putting away a bit for your next deposit over 3 years too, maybe 150 a month.

So the car costs a lot more than the quoted 350 a month which grabs people's attention. It's more like 1000!

While I'd dearly love a new bmw or Merc I can't handle those numbers with everything else I've going on. Luckily I still like older cars a lot, those in the 5-15k bracket!

Heres Johnny

Heres Johnny wrote: »

So you're looking at 13000 + (350*36) which is about 26k for 3 years

So the car costs a lot more than the quoted 350 a month which grabs people's attention. It's more like 1000!
...

Well to be fair the 13k deposit requirement will become obvious to anyone who reckons its just 350/month when they attempt to cement their interest