Dele Alli

Icaras

Zymurgist wrote: »

To be fair he said " I've scored one or two of them in my day against people who couldn't play football"

He wasn't making out like he did it in the premiership.

You're right thats what he said but why even bring it up, why would he say it???? I stand by my clown statement.

eagle eye

Ali is a very good young talent is my opinion on it at the minute. He is one of a number of young players like Ibe, Stones, Chambers, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Targett, Gomez and Sterling and that is just the English ones. There are quite a few young foreign players in the league now as well.

Some of these will have great careers and some will disappear over time and end up in the lower divisions.

Flint Fredstone

eagle eye wrote: »

Ali is a very good young talent is my opinion on it at the minute. He is one of a number of young players like Ibe, Stones, Chambers, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Targett, Gomez and Sterling and that is just the English ones. There are quite a few young foreign players in the league now as well.

Some of these will have great careers and some will disappear over time and end up in the lower divisions.

Alli, Stones and Sterling are a class above the rest in my opinion.

klose

Wonder what wage he is on now? Could be signing another contract by seasons end of he keeps up.

TitianGerm

eagle eye wrote: »

Ali is a very good young talent is my opinion on it at the minute. He is one of a number of young players like Ibe, Stones, Chambers, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Targett, Gomez and Sterling and that is just the English ones. There are quite a few young foreign players in the league now as well.

Some of these will have great careers and some will disappear over time and end up in the lower divisions.

He's much much better than Ibe.

Gomez looked good at the start of the year but unfortunately got injured but I really hope he continues like he started.

Corholio

The thing about Alli is that he has settled so fast into the top flight and has this swagger about his play as well, confident on the ball etc. He has a nasty side as well, and I don't necessarily agree with the 'you have to have that' cliche, if he can tone that down a bit he'll be a very good player. Any Spurs matches I've seen this season Dembele has been the standout midfielder for me with Alli not far behind (maybe Spurs fans will say different) so he's learning from very good players as he goes. This doesn't always happen with young players.

8-10

eagle eye wrote: »

Ali is a very good young talent is my opinion on it at the minute. He is one of a number of young players like Ibe, Stones, Chambers, Redmond, Ward-Prowse, Targett, Gomez and Sterling and that is just the English ones. There are quite a few young foreign players in the league now as well.

Some of these will have great careers and some will disappear over time and end up in the lower divisions.

I'd add Reece Oxford to that list, he's going to be a super player

Johner

Has all the attributes to become a world class player.

Apart from scoring open goals that is. :pac:

callaway92

Incredible debut season for Ali it has to be said. As far as impact on a team, Mahrez for Leicester would rank above him this season but overall I think Ali has been as good.

gormdubhgorm

callaway92 wrote: »

Incredible debut season for Ali it has to be said. As far as impact on a team, Mahrez for Leicester would rank above him this season but overall I think Ali has been as good.

I am getting worried that England have all these new in form hungry players.
They might win the Euros!
Just when they stopped talking about 1966 and all!

Richard Hillman

One of the best players I have ever seen for his age.

Left Back on the Bench

gormdubhgorm wrote:

I am getting worried that England have all these new in form hungry players. They might win the Euros! Just when they stopped talking about 1966 and all!

Don't worry, hodgson won't play many of them. He'll be tried and trusted.

galwaylad14

They really do have serious talent particularly when it comes to their attacking players. Hodgson will absolutely play Kane and Alli anyway, after that though it's hard to call what he'll do

Richard Hillman

galwaylad14 wrote: »

They really do have serious talent particularly when it comes to their attacking players. Hodgson will absolutely play Kane and Alli anyway, after that though it's hard to call what he'll do

Kane and Alli will play but he will also play Rooney, where the 2 will end up having to fill the gaps of Rooney roving around the place, thinking he is Zidane. Sterling and Sturridge went to the last world cup on similar form but spent their whole WC Games accomodating Rooney.

Beefy78

That's not true, Rooney went out wide in Brazil to accommodate Sturridge who played through the middle, and Sterling who played in the hole against Italy.

I'm not 100% convinced that Rooney finishes the group stages in the team although he'll probably start against Russia in that first game.

galwaylad14

Maybe derailing the thread slightly but how do people expect England to line up in the Summer?

On paper you'd be thinking that Kane and Vardy would make a great partnership. Bang in form, one absolute flyer who works like a dog and one physically stronger and more skilful player. By the time the season finishes they'll have close on 50 league goals between them so their confidence will be sky high.

Could they play a diamond in midfield behind them with Alli at the tip of it maybe? Or will they play with just one out and out striker?

Beefy78

I think we play a front three with Kane through the middle and Welbeck & Rooney either side. I'd expect Vardy to be on the bench to start and Hodgson to look to bring him on after the hour.

I thing Hodgson would have liked to play Rooney at 10 but Alli's performance against Germany and end of season form with Spurs has forced his hand a little.

Quazzie

His dive yesterday was terrible, and it's a real pity it was rewarded with the penalty that broke the deadlock. It's typical of the MOTD to laugh it off because he's English. If he was foreign they'd still be going on about it.

citytillidie

Quazzie wrote: »

His dive yesterday was terrible, and it's a real pity it was rewarded with the penalty that broke the deadlock. It's typical of the MOTD to laugh it off because he's English. If he was foreign they'd still be going on about it.

Nothing new about his diving, BT were saying refs watching that will now have it in the back of their minds from now on as to if it's a foul or a dive

keeponhurling

As long as the potential rewards for diving are much higher than any punishment, players of course will do it.

Retrospective bans would be a start, but doesn't seem to be much appetite for it

eagle eye

A few things have crept into his game now, there was an attitude there for a while and I'm not sure it's fully gone away either, the diving is another thing now.

He is a massively talented player but English football fans don't like their own international players diving.

davycc

Nice to have the thread bumped after 8 months by an Arsenal fan , alli has not reached Robert pires levels of diving yet!

I felt a bit sorry for Kyle naughton on his return to the lane, the ref should have booked alli for diving, hopefully the fa will bring in retrospective ban's for diving.

As for alli once he keeps up the nutmegs and quits the comedy dives ill be 100% behind him.

Ormus

eagle eye wrote: »

A few things have crept into his game now, there was an attitude there for a while and I'm not sure it's fully gone away either, the diving is another thing now.

He is a massively talented player but English football fans don't like their own international players diving.

Sanchez had a very similar one a few weeks ago and nobody complained. It's an ugly part of the game but it is now part of the game. In South America it's not even seen as cheating and the same attitude is creeping into Europe. There aren't many players at the top level who wouldn't be willing to do what Alli did if it meant winning a penalty. Sad but true.

Left Back on the Bench

"We've got alli, dele alli"
Everybody

eagle eye

Ormus wrote: »

Sanchez had a very similar one a few weeks ago and nobody complained. It's an ugly part of the game but it is now part of the game. In South America it's not even seen as cheating and the same attitude is creeping into Europe. There aren't many players at the top level who wouldn't be willing to do what Alli did if it meant winning a penalty. Sad but true.

My point is that English fans don't like it, Spurs fans don't like it either. I understand it's crept into the game but if he wants top billing in the UK he has to stop doing it.

Quazzie

davycc wrote: »

Nice to have the thread bumped after 8 months by an Arsenal fan , alli has not reached Robert pires levels of diving yet!

Under 7.5 months actually and being an Arsenal has no affect on my opinion. His dive on Saturday in my opinion was more blatant than any Pires dive. So while Pires might have him on number, Ali certainly has him on obviousness.

davycc wrote: »

As for alli once he keeps up the nutmegs and quits the comedy dives ill be 100% behind him.

So you'd be ok with backing him even if he continues diving?

Ormus

eagle eye wrote: »

My point is that English fans don't like it, Spurs fans don't like it either. I understand it's crept into the game but if he wants top billing in the UK he has to stop doing it.

SOME fans don't like it. Mainly older ones, myself included. Overall I don't think it will harm his popularity with Spurs fans. Drogba was adored by Chelsea fans. Even Suarez was adored by Pool fans.

GavRedKing

Jon Moss was the ref, tells ya ll you need to know about the incident.

He is without a shadow of doubt, the most useless ref they have.

Given that Spurs fluffed numerous chances and still ran out 5-0 winners, I dont think the penalty incident, had it been rightly booked for diving, made any impact on the result.

Still though, Allis dive was the worse of the weekend and that includes Jesus Navas at the Etihad.

Beefy78

I've hardly watched any Premier League football this year (having suffered complete burnout by that horrible tournament in the Summer) but enjoyed Alli a lot last year. How has he been playing?

eagle eye

GavRedKing wrote: »

Jon Moss was the ref, tells ya ll you need to know about the incident.

He is without a shadow of doubt, the most useless ref they have.

Given that Spurs fluffed numerous chances and still ran out 5-0 winners, I dont think the penalty incident, had it been rightly booked for diving, made any impact on the result.

Still though, Allis dive was the worse of the weekend and that includes Jesus Navas at the Etihad.

Ha, I think Anthony Taylor over the last six weeks has been worse if anything.

keeponhurling

Pocc was saying today that he knows all about English players diving, as he was the player closest to Michael Owen when he dived in the 2002 World Cup.

In my memory, back then it seemed to be only the flying winger types who dived, Michael Owen or Damien Duff, later Pires and Ronaldo, who dived regularly. They got kicked around the place a lot, so were "anticipating" tackles

Then after that, we saw "tough" midfielders like Steven Gerrard or Roy Keane diving.

Then the next phase was the "no-nonsense centre half" diving, such as the more recent Stephen Taylor or Gary Cahill dives.

Basically it is completely part of the game now, and no player or manager cares anymore if they dive.

byronbay2

Quazzie wrote: »

It's typical of the MOTD to laugh it off because he's English. If he was foreign they'd still be going on about it.

That's exactly what I was thinking, while watching MOTD. Usually, they give out stink about diving (especially when it's as blatant as Alli's) but changed tone to sneaking admiration when it was an Englishman involved.

citytillidie wrote: »

Nothing new about his diving, BT were saying refs watching that will now have it in the back of their minds from now on as to if it's a foul or a dive

I don't know about that. Alli has been diving for over a year (pretty well-known for it) and still managed to get that VERY dubious penalty on Saturday.

TheCitizen

Overrated and English is almost a cliche at this stage. This guy is talented but he has a very poor temperament and will never be top drawer.

Johner

TheCitizen wrote: »

Overrated and English is almost a cliche at this stage. This guy is talented but he has a very poor temperament and will never be top drawer.

Probably a bit harsh at this stage, he's still only 20.

Beefy78

Michael Owen drew the foul in 2002. It's the sort of thing you get livid over if it happens to your team but it was a foul and it was a penalty.

Plenty of English players do dive and do get criticised for it. Ashley Young was crucified for it three or four years back and Vardy got probably excessive criticism for it last season.

lassykk

keeponhurling wrote: »

Then after that, we saw "tough" midfielders like Steven Gerrard or Roy Keane diving.

Not my any means a fan of Roy Keane but diving? Really?

Not saying you are wrong but I can't recall it and find it hard to imagine him doing it

irelandrover

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He got sent opff against Blackburn. Second yellow card was for a dive.

Kirby

Beefy78 wrote: »

Michael Owen drew the foul in 2002. It's the sort of thing you get livid over if it happens to your team but it was a foul and it was a penalty.

Plenty of English players do dive and do get criticised for it. Ashley Young was crucified for it three or four years back and Vardy got probably excessive criticism for it last season.

"Drawing a foul" is a euphemism fans and ex-pro's in the media use for diving. Because thats what it is. Diving. Owen could have stayed on his feet had he wanted to. Ergo he is simulating having his legs taken away. It's cheating. Acceptable cheating by many today unfortunately, but cheating nontheless.

Any flack that Vardy gets for diving is not excessive and is totally warranted. He is a notorious flopper. If anyone so much as looks at him he dives.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Diving is no more cheating that pulling a jersey or body checking someone.Defenders do this all the time and no-one has the slightest problem with it.Diving is just a way of balancing things up for the attacking players so I don't blame players for doing it and it's no worse than what defenders do all the time and get away with.

Of course the problem is that because diving didn't start in England it isn't considered to be a proper manly version of cheating and thus is not considered acceptable.

Beefy78

Kirby wrote: »

"Drawing a foul" is a euphemism fans and ex-pro's in the media use for diving. Because thats what it is. Diving. Owen could have stayed on his feet had he wanted to. Ergo he is simulating having his legs taken away. It's cheating. Acceptable cheating by many today unfortunately, but cheating nontheless.

Any flack that Vardy gets for diving is not excessive and is totally warranted. He is a notorious flopper. If anyone so much as looks at him he dives.

If a defender sticks his leg out then why on Earth should a striker hurdle it or avoid it any other way? Owen did nothing wrong. It was brainless defending.

Kirby

Beefy78 wrote: »

If a defender sticks his leg out then why on Earth should a striker hurdle it or avoid it any other way? Owen did nothing wrong. It was brainless defending.

That argument is ridiculous. He should hurdle it or avoid it because the other option is cheating. A defender fouling him doesn't give a license to cheat.

And lets not pretend "Hurdle it or get out of the way" are the only options here when players dive.

We frequently see players pulled back, and dive forward. Players tapped on the leg, take 4 more steps then fling themselves to the ground. We see players intentionally kicking the defender and flopping. 90% of the diving cases aren't your example. They arent "why should i get out of the way?" They are "I think I'll go down here." They are actively cheating. Consciously choosing to dive.

Kirby

Just to refresh peoples memory, here is the dive in question where he "Did nothing wrong"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHVpBINPkQ

The attitude that this is acceptable is the reason why nothing can be done about diving.

Beefy78

The striker shouldn't have to hurdle or get out of the way of a defender's leg if that leg has been stuck out for a tackle that has got nowhere near the ball.

If Owen, or any other striker, has to change route or hurdle the defender then it could well impact their ability to score, just like a subtle tug of the jersey would. It is a foul and it is a penalty. If you want to blame someone blame the idiot defender.

Beefy78

Kirby wrote: »

Just to refresh peoples memory, here is the dive in question where he "Did nothing wrong"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHVpBINPkQ

The attitude that this is acceptable is the reason why nothing can be done about diving.

You've got your World Cup's mixed up. We're talking about the 2002 game resulting in Beckham's wonder penalty into the one spot that the keeper couldn't reach.

keeponhurling wrote: »

Pocc was saying today that he knows all about English players diving, as he was the player closest to Michael Owen when he dived in the 2002 World Cup.

Beefy78 wrote: »

Michael Owen drew the foul in 2002. It's the sort of thing you get livid over if it happens to your team but it was a foul and it was a penalty.

Kirby

Oh really? Would you mind linking the dive you were talking about so?

Beefy78

There's wasn't a dive so I can't, sorry.

The heinous foul on brave young Michael Owen though is around the three minute mark on this video

davycc

Quazzie wrote: »

Under 7.5 months actually and being an Arsenal has no affect on my opinion. His dive on Saturday in my opinion was more blatant than any Pires dive. So while Pires might have him on number, Ali certainly has him on obviousness.


So you'd be ok with backing him even if he continues diving?

I said once he quits the comedy dives ill be right behind him, I don't know how you read that from my post, I have zero time for any player of any team of any era diving.

Corholio

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Diving is no more cheating that pulling a jersey or body checking someone.Defenders do this all the time and no-one has the slightest problem with it.Diving is just a way of balancing things up for the attacking players so I don't blame players for doing it and it's no worse than what defenders do all the time and get away with.

Of course the problem is that because diving didn't start in England it isn't considered to be a proper manly version of cheating and thus is not considered acceptable.

No one has the slightest problem with it? If a player pulls a jersey it should be a foul, if a player body checks someone it should be a foul. Pretty straight forward no? Diving is spotlighted because it's visually embarassing and because it's pretending something that didn't happen. Strikers give plenty back to defenders as well, the typical England 'manly' centre forward epitomises this exactly, so what is there to 'even' it up for them?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Corholio wrote: »

No one has the slightest problem with it? If a player pulls a jersey it should be a foul, if a player body checks someone it should be a foul. Pretty straight forward no? Diving is spotlighted because it's visually embarassing and because it's pretending something that didn't happen. Strikers give plenty back to defenders as well, the typical England 'manly' centre forward epitomises this exactly, so what is there to 'even' it up for them?

Thats all they say though.When have you ever seen anyone go on a big rant about cynicism from defenders? The referee was blamed rather than David Luiz for the incident in the first half of last weeks game.You don't here people questioning someones character or turning off players because they happen to defend cynically.People just accept it as part of the game and what clever defenders do.Taking one for the team is generally praised as being what a defender should do.

Shanotheslayer

I must have have misclicked into the Michael Owen Diving Thread by mistake.

*leaves*