Dele Alli

Kirby

Well the thread is about Dele Alli. Who dived very recently and is a habitual diver. It can't be shocking we end up talking about diving in general.

Shanotheslayer

Kirby wrote: »

Well the thread is about Dele Alli. Who dived very recently and is a habitual diver. It can't be shocking we end up talking about diving in general.

I came to check his performance last night as I only know he scored. But no talk of it.

PhlegmyMoses

Kirby wrote: »

That argument is ridiculous. He should hurdle it or avoid it because the other option is cheating. A defender fouling him doesn't give a license to cheat.

And lets not pretend "Hurdle it or get out of the way" are the only options here when players dive.

We frequently see players pulled back, and dive forward. Players tapped on the leg, take 4 more steps then fling themselves to the ground. We see players intentionally kicking the defender and flopping. 90% of the diving cases aren't your example. They arent "why should i get out of the way?" They are "I think I'll go down here." They are actively cheating. Consciously choosing to dive.

If you want to know why players engage in theatrics, look no further than Rojos tackle on Gueye at the weekend. Gueye gets up without fuss and Rojo only gets a yellow for an incredibly dangerous piece of play. If Gueye hams it up, Rojo goes off. Instead of playing against 10 men for the next 60 mins, he gets kudos from people on the Internet for not rolling around. I know which option I'd rather my player take.

Beefy78

So I asked the other day, how has Alli done this year? He seemed to get the headlines this morning.

LuckyLloyd

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Diving is no more cheating that pulling a jersey or body checking someone.Defenders do this all the time and no-one has the slightest problem with it.Diving is just a way of balancing things up for the attacking players so I don't blame players for doing it and it's no worse than what defenders do all the time and get away with.

Of course the problem is that because diving didn't start in England it isn't considered to be a proper manly version of cheating and thus is not considered acceptable.

Rough play is adequately punished, diving is not. That's the problem. Moreover, feigning being hurt is a cowardly and unmanly way to behave.

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Rough play is adequately punished, diving is not. That's the problem. Moreover, feigning being hurt is a cowardly and unmanly way to behave.

Technically diving isn't 'feigning being hurt', its 'feigning being fouled'.
I don't think anyone would disagree that feigning being hurt is pretty terrible.

Dirty Dingus McGee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Rough play is adequately punished, diving is not. That's the problem. Moreover, feigning being hurt is a cowardly and unmanly way to behave.

Diving causes no harm to anybody, rough play does.Nobody (apart from the diver) is risking injury when diving occurs.

Refs can punish diving if they want and should so the issue is bad refereeing.

Each generation of players sets the standard as to what is acceptable in the sport 50 years ago hacking someone out of the game was considered to be a part of the game these days it isn't diving has now become a part of the game now and people need to realize that the players don't have a huge amount of an issue with it , it's the old codgers on TV and in the stands who have a problem with it.

Corholio

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Diving causes no harm to anybody, rough play does.Nobody (apart from the diver) is risking injury when diving occurs.

Refs can punish diving if they want and should so the issue is bad refereeing.

Each generation of players sets the standard as to what is acceptable in the sport 50 years ago hacking someone out of the game was considered to be a part of the game these days it isn't diving has now become a part of the game now and people need to realize that the players don't have a huge amount of an issue with it , it's the old codgers on TV and in the stands who have a problem with it.

Why are players always asking the ref to book divers so, or wagging their finger and giving out to those who do dive? Players are seen not to have an issue with it a lot of the time because very few players want to be seen to call fellow players 'divers' and that's a big part of the problem. Managers get massive fines for saying something even resembling calling a player a cheat, regardless of an incidents blatancy. Terrible tackles like Aguero's last week are rightly condemned and highly criticised by people, diving analysis should head towards this direction imo. Pundits watch replay after replay of diving incidents just so they can have an excuse not to call a player a diver or even say he dived. A dive can also have an instant huge impact on a game, such as a penalty etc, this is why there always talk about it.

Left Back on the Bench

Beefy78 wrote:

So I asked the other day, how has Alli done this year? He seemed to get the headlines this morning.

Been struggling with a few niggly injuries last few months. Needs to be fully fit to be in top form i think. Was decent enough Wednesday night, took his goal well

Optimalprimerib

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I came to check his performance last night as I only know he scored. But no talk of it.

It was a lovely goal too. But as he is the only player in the pl who dives that must be talked about. Think of the children

davycc

Another decent goal today and not an immoral dive in sight so the children will be safe for another week !

davycc

Unreal tekkers header by the boy wonder against the saints!

Edit 2 great goals and a well deserved penalty kick

davycc

2 so far today!hopefully he gets the 3rd

davycc

Another cracking header v Chelsea x 2

Mr.Nice Guy

This kid looks the real deal. One of my favourite players to watch in the Premier League and he's developing well under Pochettino. His intelligence on the pitch is impressive for someone so young and he plays like he's one step ahead of his opponents.

DeanAustin

As a Spurs fan, I’m still not convinced he’s as good as people are making out. He scores a lot of goals but doesn’t influence the game enough for me. He was poor in the early part of the season, poor in the Euros and poor in the CL.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted he’s a Tottenham player but I think people are in danger of overhyping him just now because he’s on a good run of form.

eh i dunno

I thought he was pretty quiet last night besides his goals which he took well. Reminds me of Tim cahill with his ability to nick goals from midfield. A more technical player than Cahill though.

Johner

I don't think he actually played well last night but he still scored two goals! He is only 20 and he can do one thing that a lot of midfielders can't and that is score goals. He seems to have that Lampard like instinct of knowing exactly when to time his runs and when to arrive in the box. Being a goal scoring midfielder is never a bad thing and 20 goals in 52 apps for a 20 year is a phenomenal achievement. As he get's older his all round game will improve.

Richard Hillman

20 goals from 50 games is an outrageous return for a 20 year old Midfielder.

Iused2likebusts

He will be one of the best midfielder in the league for the next 10 seasons. Great to see you can buy players from the lower leagues that turn out so good.

Ormus

DeanAustin wrote: »

As a Spurs fan, I’m still not convinced he’s as good as people are making out. He scores a lot of goals but doesn’t influence the game enough for me. He was poor in the early part of the season, poor in the Euros and poor in the CL.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted he’s a Tottenham player but I think people are in danger of overhyping him just now because he’s on a good run of form.

I think people misunderstand what he is. He isn't a 'pull the strings' type or a 'grab the game by the scruff of the neck' type midfielder, he's an attacker from deep, he makes lots of intelligent runs and has great finishing technique, always stays loose, never snatches at the ball. Think Lampard or David Platt.

Don't be expecting him to dominate games, never gonna happen.

Ormus

Richard Hillman wrote: »

20 goals from 50 games is an outrageous return for a 20 year old Midfielder.

And 10 assists.

DeanAustin

Ormus wrote: »

I think people misunderstand what he is. He isn't a 'pull the strings' type or a 'grab the game by the scruff of the neck' type midfielder, he's an attacker from deep, he makes lots of intelligent runs and has great finishing technique, always stays loose, never snatches at the ball. Think Lampard or David Platt.

Don't be expecting him to dominate games, never gonna happen.

Agreed completely. But for me, while you'd love to have a Lampard, Platt or Alli in your team, they never do enough in general play to be considered top players.

Beefy78

Frank Lampard and David Platt were absolutely 'top players'. Don't let their goals fool you - they were both absolutely top class footballers who made games look easier. I saw both play live and both had this incredible talent of always being in five yards of space.

Alli will be doing well to be as good as either.

Irish_rat

People are talking about him again now but I've said even during his drought that the guy is a top player.

Has that maturity to go on and do great things in his career I reckon.

Morzadec

DeanAustin wrote: »

As a Spurs fan, I’m still not convinced he’s as good as people are making out. He scores a lot of goals but doesn’t influence the game enough for me. He was poor in the early part of the season, poor in the Euros and poor in the CL.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m delighted he’s a Tottenham player but I think people are in danger of overhyping him just now because he’s on a good run of form.

I'm not sure he's an influencer though, in terms of being a playmaker or having everything go through him. I don't think that's his game.

And it seems that's why he may be doing so well lately - they're playing him further upfield and letting him do what he does best. He's almost playing as a striker at the moment.

Someone compared him to Lampard and I see that. He's looking like a peak Lampard or Gerrard around the 07 08 09 seasons.

Both Lampard and Gerrard were given that licence. Neither were really the true influencers in their team. Liverpool for example had Alonso to do that. Gerrard was at his best letting others dictate the game and getting up there off the shoulder of Torres.

Spurs will get the best out of Alli if they continue to play a similar formation as yesterday - get him out of the midfield and put him into the final third.

Liverpool and Chelsea got the best out of Gerrard and Lampard doing the same - having two proper midfielders behind them. He reminds me a lot of both of them.

England would be wise to learn from their mistakes with Gerrard and Lampard - if they think that Dele Alli is going to boss games playing in a midfield 2 in a 442 then they're in for a rude awakening. Will be interesting to see if they make the same mistake - Southgate strikes me as someone smart enough to realise that Alli is a Gerrard/Lampard and not a Scholes

Quazzie

Again booked for diving yesterday, and this time it appears Pochetino wasn't impressed by it.

He really needs to cut that from his game if he is to really progress in his career

Leroy42

Quazzie wrote: »

Again booked for diving yesterday, and this time it appears Pochetino wasn't impressed by it.

He really needs to cut that from his game if he is to really progress in his career

Why? Ronaldo is hardly a stranger to diving and it s hasn't done his career any harm. Suarez is another one.

The only thing Poch has an issue with is that Deli is so bad at it and keeps being caught

Quazzie

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why? Ronaldo is hardly a stranger to diving and it s hasn't done his career any harm. Suarez is another one.

The only thing Poch has an issue with is that Deli is so bad at it and keeps being caught

So you think diving should be encouraged in the modern game?

Leroy42

Quazzie wrote: »

So you think diving should be encouraged in the modern game?

Doesn't matter what I think, it is well ingrained already.

It is clearly a part of the game. The EPL seem, belated, to be trying to do something about it this year, but it well established within the game.

Alli is not the cause of it and I was responding to a point that he should cut it out to progress his career. The examples I provided show that that opinion is at best naive.

Quazzie

Leroy42 wrote: »

Doesn't matter what I think, it is well ingrained already.

It is clearly a part of the game. The EPL seem, belated, to be trying to do something about it this year, but it well established within the game.

Alli is not the cause of it and I was responding to a point that he should cut it out to progress his career. The examples I provided show that that opinion is at best naive.

Your post reads as lame justification for scummy cheating behaviour tbh

Rekop dog

Quazzie wrote: »

So you think diving should be encouraged in the modern game?

Poch has to come out and vilify it but you'd be naive to think in private he'd not be telling them to simulate when possible.

Either way it's not that big a deal, Alli is a fantastic young footballer and this won't affect his progression one jot.

lertsnim

Leroy42 wrote: »

Alli is not the cause of it

He has no excuse. What he is doing is blatant cheating and should be banned for it.

PhlegmyMoses

Quazzie wrote: »

So you think diving should be encouraged in the modern game?

It should be discouraged just as much as defenders hauling somebody down to prevent a quick breakaway, or holding somebody in the box at a corner. Or in other words, given the exact punishment that it is now; yellow and free kick.

Leroy42

Quazzie wrote: »

So you think diving should be encouraged in the modern game?

Quazzie wrote: »

Your post reads as lame justification for scummy cheating behaviour tbh

lertsnim wrote: »

He has no excuse. What he is doing is blatant cheating and should be banned for it.

Where I have said it was either justified or anything about it not being cheating?

You guys need to calm down and actually read what was posted, not jump on your high horses and interpret what was said.

This was the original post:

Quazzie wrote: »

Again booked for diving yesterday, and this time it appears Pochetino wasn't impressed by it.

He really needs to cut that from his game if he is to really progress in his career

And this was my response:

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why? Ronaldo is hardly a stranger to diving and it s hasn't done his career any harm. Suarez is another one.

The only thing Poch has an issue with is that Deli is so bad at it and keeps being caught

Point to me where I am encouraging it?
Point to me where I said it was justified?
Point out to me where I have excused the behaviour?

Ormus

The funniest thing is that only the bad divers get booked. The players who are good at it always get the timing right, wait for the contact and then go down. And they ALL do it at the top level, it’s a basic skill they all learn from a young age. Dele just gets his timing wrong sometimes.

eagle eye

Problem for Alli is that his attitude stinks. If you are not a fan of Spurs you will not like him and because of that attitude problem the fans of opposing teams are going to scream louder about anything he does.

Rekop dog

Ormus wrote: »

The funniest thing is that only the bad divers get booked. The players who are good at it always get the timing right, wait for the contact and then go down. And they ALL do it at the top level, it’s a basic skill they all learn from a young age. Dele just gets his timing wrong sometimes.

It's very true. Duffer was the best I've ever seen, a complete scumbag when it came to cheating but got away with it his whole career.