Emigrants, thinking of coming home?

Permabear

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Tony EH

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I'll be back when this global warming kicks in, so long as it corresponds with some local drying out of the weather.

"Global warming" has kicked in, but it leads to Cork getting flooded every year, not lovely sunshine and palmtrees.

FTA69

Permabear wrote: »

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It is if you don't have it. Many Americans working in low paid jobs could never afford health insurance.

Permabear

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Tony EH

I'm at work at the mo, so can't get into another huge reply...

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No but the system's failure to adapt and modernise is something Irish people have control over. In my opinion, it is entirely at fault and pointing that out is not unreasonable at all. How many people might have stayed if we replaced nonsense like Irish and religion with useful skills like coding, science and engineering. Even if they couldn't have gotten jobs it's possible a few would have set up their own businesses.

How can "we", the public change the curriculum of schools. I think that's a bit fanciful TBH. Plus, are the public even in a position to do so? I would say they are not.

That's not to say that I don't agree with overhauling. I think we would all be on the same page as far as getting Irish and religion off the time table. Although, in the case of Irish, it could be made an option, rather than a must. Unfortunately, for the gaeilgeoir amongst us, that would probably mean its eventual emlination from schools althogether in due course.

BTW the way, it was my impression that we WERE pushing the sciences in our schools and collages in the mid 90's. I think at one point, nearly everyone that I knew who was in the year or two behind me was doing a science degree of some sort.

But, even so, the "useful" skills you mention aren't universal. They'll only be valid for a certain group of people with the aptitude for such things.

And even then, we could spend the time covering that base and in a decade, those types of jobs have disappeared.

It just not that simple.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

But the opportunities abroad are so much better. This is why people leave. Heck, if you even speak Germany you’ll likely have no problem at all scooping up a decent paying job for a German multinational if you have no other skills.

Yeh, that's sort of my point. You have to be exposed to the opportunities in order to take advantage of them. In Ireland, those ops aren't there far too often. I know a guy who went to Germany, without a lick of German. A company took him in, trained him and set up language classes for him. He now has trouble remembering English. :pac: He's very happy there, has a family and a good job, that respects him and he respects it.

You simply wouldn't get a sniff of that in Ireland. A place where companies treat their employees like numbers and cogs in the wheel, to be discarded at the drop of the hat. Companies don't even have proper training programs over here any more.

In any case, I've wasted enough time on this thread...back to work for me.

Permabear

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LDN_Irish

Tony EH wrote: »

Looking for interviews, the bull**** questions asked in those interviews and then the actual job at the end which bared not resemblance to the original job spec.

This would be funny if it wasn't such a bizarre waste of everyone's, including the employer who writes up the job spec, time. My wife just got hired as a Key Business Developer and Receptions Manager. She answers the phones for 9 hours a day and writes the roster. We used to call them receptionists. She took the job because we needed to pay rent but I have to wonder why they didn't just label the job "Receptionist."

The Randy Riverbeast

Permabear wrote: »

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On the plus side, we may have to do Irish but the idea of being shot at school isn't a worry.

mariaalice

Permabear, this is slightly off topic you seem to imply that a welfare state interferers with wealth creation and opportunities for people, then you stated that Luxenbourg is a very wealthy country, it is also a welfare state how are the two: welfare and wealth creation compatible in Luxenbourg.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

How can "we", the public change the curriculum of schools. I think that's a bit fanciful TBH. Plus, are the public even in a position to do so? I would say they are not.

That's not to say that I don't agree with overhauling. I think we would all be on the same page as far as getting Irish and religion off the time table. Although, in the case of Irish, it could be made an option, rather than a must. Unfortunately, for the gaeilgeoir amongst us, that would probably mean its eventual emlination from schools althogether in due course.

BTW the way, it was my impression that we WERE pushing the sciences in our schools and collages in the mid 90's. I think at one point, nearly everyone that I knew who was in the year or two behind me was doing a science degree of some sort.

But, even so, the "useful" skills you mention aren't universal. They'll only be valid for a certain group of people with the aptitude for such things.

Well, one idea is letting the private sector operate schools without the tyranny of the church and Irish language lobbies. Such schools would be more flexible in being able to adapt to trends in job markets. Heck, it's not unfathomable that some schools might develop ties with industry letting pupils forgo University education and the debt associated with it and start working immediately.

When I was at school in the early '00s, science was optional and we spent a fraction of the time on it that we did Irish.

Tony EH wrote: »

And even then, we could spend the time covering that base and in a decade, those types of jobs have disappeared.

This is a bit ridiculous IMO. There'll always be a demand for skills in IT, science and the like. Methods might change but schools would be able to change with them.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Tony EH

Permabear wrote: »

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You just answered your own question.

Permabear

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ArnoldJRimmer

Permabear wrote: »

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Three thousand dollars out of pocket for a small number of trips to the doctor for minor ailments, in addition to most of it being paid by health insurance, is hardly a fortune? LOL, I'll let you get back to your Trump rallies and lighting cigars with 100 dollar bills

Tony EH

Permabear wrote: »

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I really SHOULD get off this thread, but...

What I mean is that there are vested interests involved in our schools that vie for their own particular way. The example you illustrated is perfect, although I would suggest that Fine Gael's promise was as about as trustworthy as any of their others. i.e not very.

It certainly comes as no surprise to me that the gold fainne's were marching against any proposal to even make Irish an option.

But, in any case, I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the public are in any shape to decide the curricula of schools, but that doesn't mean that some reform is welcome and indeed necessary.

Permabear

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Idbatterim

So emigrants of AH, would you consider moving home? Or are ye well settled in your chosen destination?

I live here, but there are a few large issues with returning home that I see, yes the income tax rates at moderate to high salaries is an issue, but so is extortionate rent in Dublin and the cost of child care here (if applicable)...

Maintaining the €20 billion Irish welfare state, and keeping half the population on social welfare, is an indisputable drag on the economy. It accounts for a sizable chunk of the roughly €47 billion collected in taxes.

Absolutely and its a massive problem here, the marginal rate is a massive disincentive to job creation and even staff taking on more hours or businesses taking on more work...

MrMorooka

FTA69 wrote: »

It is if you don't have it. Many Americans working in low paid jobs could never afford health insurance.

It's fine for Permabear who implies he makes more than $406,751 a year.

Seriously, will a mod just ****ing ban him from the thread? He is just creating off topic conversations and it's pointless.

ancapailldorcha

MrMorooka wrote: »

It's fine for Permabear who implies he makes more than $406,751 a year.

Seriously, will a mod just ****ing ban him from the thread? He is just creating off topic conversations and it's pointless.

I would have thought working pay and conditions abroad would constitute a core topic of discussion for a thread about emigrants possibly returning home.

jester77

Idbatterim wrote: »

I live here, but there are a few large issues with returning home that I see, yes the income tax rates at moderate to high salaries is an issue, but so is extortionate rent in Dublin and the cost of child care here (if applicable)...

The rents in Dublin are ok compared to most international cities, if anything they are cheaper. Quality however is their biggest problem, walls are like paper, if you neighbour scratches you can hear it.

Child care is utterly ridiculous though and another issue is fathers rights... or lack thereof. That would be enough to put any family off.

MrMorooka

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I would have thought working pay and conditions abroad would constitute a core topic of discussion for a thread about emigrants possibly returning home.

The perspective of someone on Permabear's income is going to be so detached from reality as to be not usable in a discussion involving normal people.

ancapailldorcha

MrMorooka wrote: »

The perspective of someone on Permabear's income is going to be so detached from reality as to be not usable in a discussion involving normal people.

That's one opinion. Unless he violates the charter or a mod warning then he's as welcome to post here as anyone.

Idbatterim

The perspective of someone on Permabear's income is going to be so detached from reality as to be not usable in a discussion involving normal people.

ridiculous, you mean someone on a highish income where the highest rate kicks in at 250,000-300,000

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjutt3N7sfKAhXFgw8KHcisAR8QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Firish-news%2Fsqueezed-workers-here-hit-top-tax-rate-earlier-than-in-other-countries-29611581.html&psig=AFQjCNGAHQoq-AzImQuSi4PGT7Uv35D_2A&ust=1453910976764643

Mr. CooL ICE

MrMorooka wrote: »

Seriously, will a mod just ****ing ban him from the thread? He is just creating off topic conversations and it's pointless.

Mod:

Use the report post function if you have a problem with a post. Don't discuss this on thread.

Permabear

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Permabear

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catbear

Permabear wrote: »

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Well best of luck with that.

When it comes to mass shootings I'm firmly in the post Dunblane response rather the Newtown intransigence. Even frontier Australia knew gun control was needed after Portarther.

Like Gandhi I think the USA is a great idea but I've never regretted giving up my option to live there. I rather some degree of society than fundamentalist individualism.

Edit to add: after I had written I checked the news to see another gunman is loose in a hospital in the US. What will it take for the US to finally say enough is enough, another Oklahoma, ten more Newtowns........

keith16

In Switzerland for a year and a half. First few months settling in were very tough and I was strongly considering moving home.

Since then, have settled very well and the quality of life here is phenomenal. I can't ever see myself moving back.

MRnotlob606

keith16 wrote: »

In Switzerland for a year and a half. First few months settling in were very tough and I was strongly considering moving home.

Since then, have settled very well and the quality of life here is phenomenal. I can't ever see myself moving back.

The Swiss seem to have getting a lot of things right in their nice little country - Democracy, Universal health care, and sensible immigration policies. I'm envious of you

Imagine living in a country that does so well that its citizens even rejected a rise in the minimum wage !!

Permabear

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Permabear

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OneArt

I left Ireland several years ago because I wanted to live somewhere else and learn another language. Being 21, I had few responsibilities or debts and was happy enough to work basic jobs for a couple of years while maybe studying.

Fast forward five years and I'm still in Germany, doing a distance learning degree (which costs an absolute pittance) and working full-time in marketing. I speak two languages and actually have the money to invest in learning a third, without any major dent to my savings.

I like visiting Ireland regularly, if only to see family and friends whom I've kept in contact with. Friends frequently come and visit me here. There are many aspects of Ireland that I love, and I would even consider investing in property there (then again I know little about property at the moment, but time will tell). However...

As a place to live, Ireland is far too rural. Nothing wrong with that, but I prefer city life and outside of Limerick, Dublin and maybe Cork, there aren't any real cities and just small towns and villages. I did consider coming back a year ago as there were plenty of jobs I could've worked in, but most of them were in Dublin. Due to the lack of basic accommodation, I'd be pretty stuck for a place to live unless I got lucky. Even then, I'd be paying a fortune. Like I said before, I LOVE living in big city and would be bored sh!tless out in the far suburbs or in the country. On top of that, I'd have to get a car which is an expense I'd rather not deal with (unless I had a family, which I don't and don't plan on having for a long time, if at all).

I also really dislike Irish drinking culture. Don't get me wrong: the actual craic Irish people have when out for a few pints is fantastic. It's just the whole set-up that drives me mad: everything is closed by 2/3 and in most towns its even earlier. There's also this mentality of shoveling at much drink into you as possible before heading out. I'm not as big a drinker as I used to be, but I love hanging out in bars until the early hours of the morning, chatting and talking sh!te. Most weekends I don't even get that drunk. Sometimes heading up to a random party that starts at 4/5 am. Most weekends we don't usually go out until 10, 11 or 12. There's just a far more relaxed attitude to drinking here, and there's very little pressure to drink so much. Even shots aren't particularly high in alcohol content and it's seen as more of a social ritual than actually getting f*cked.

Beyond a good economy and lower taxes, the government would have to implement some SERIOUS improvements for me to come back (the only real incentive would be if family members were ill and I needed to be around, or if there is a major war and Ireland remained neutral). Ireland leaves a lot to be desired in terms of infrastructure, housing and healthcare. If I ever had children I would love to have them grow up in Ireland for at least a few years, if only to learn and understand the Irish attitude to things which I think can be a major help in the long run (and help them learn not to take themselves too seriously). However, both health and housing are two things that majorly worry me.

Honestly though, the way things are going I think I'm going to stick to Germany or perhaps the Netherlands in a few years. Ireland is also quite underpopulated as a country and there just doesn't seem to be that much going on. It's not a terrible country and I'm not saying I'll never move back: there are, however, several other places I'd consider first if I ever moved again.

catbear

Permabear wrote: »

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We seem to have a difference of opinion based on different experiences in the same country. Although I have lived east and west coast, south too and even a brief stint in Hawaii.
As I said, best of luck with your future there.
At least if your perception should be changed you've got options for moving.

keith16

Permabear wrote: »

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If you are considering it, I couldn't recommend it strongly enough. Spending power and general sense of security is fantastic.

I can bring the kids out cycling and never see a car thanks to an extensive off road cycling / walking routes.

I could go on.

It's not perfect either, but it's close.

ancapailldorcha

Switzerland is quite good for what I do. Good to hear it'd be a good option.

Permabear

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ceadaoin.

I'm living in the U.S. having previously lived in the UK for several years.

My daughter will be starting school next year and we will be sending her to private school because the public schools in my state are ranked the worst in the country. We have good health insurance through my husbands job but besides a couple of doctors visits haven't really had to use it luckily.

I realise that we are lucky to be able to afford these luxuries. I'm under no illusions as to how ****ty life is here if you don't have much money. It's crazy that access to decent healthcare and education is even considered a luxury but that's how the system works.

No plans to return home although I would like to eventually. For now though we have to follow the money!

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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I've read that it's because they don't have access to the EU market for financial services so a lot of Swiss firms use London as a workaround.

turnikett1

Well, to be honest, I've travelled a bit around the world, and right now I've been living in France since September and will do so until June... but I can't ever see myself permanently settling down anywhere else. I foresee myself, and have many plans, to spend a year here or a year there in places like Scotland and Quebec but in terms of settling down with a family and stuff Ireland is where it's at for me. I miss it so much when I'm abroad, yet when I'm home I always feel that I need to take (relatively) frequent small breaks from the country.

But overall I just love Irish people too much, and my friends, and I want to start looking after my parents as they get older. I love and play Irish music and that's probably one big reason why I love it here so much. I know other places have cheaper cost of living, better food, better weather, more cities and so on... but for me all that can't beat the craic, tunes, family and friends! I just love the coziness of home. I also love Irish beer moreso than other types of booze.

But I'm not a true emigrant anyways in the first place... but still, I have been about the block, and I still maintain that Ireland is my favourite.

Permabear

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Yuri Checkov

I left Ireland 5 years ago. There was no work, no prospects.

I found a job away from home. I packed up the car and drove across Europe. I haven't looked back since.

From this end it is now obvious what a sh1thole Ireland is. Getting screwed by vested interests at every angle. The sheeple of Ireland have Stockholm Syndrome at this stage. That is my only logical conclusion. They are so used to the sh1t that they just accept it without question.

I insured my car the other day, €80 for a year. The thieves in Ireland would want 1000 plus. Tax was 48 compared to almost 700 in Ireland.

I had to go to the doctor the other day. I needed a specialist. He telephoned the specialist to set up an appointment for the next day. You would never get that level of service in Ireland. People here are appaled at stories of waiting years for operations.

In short screw you Enda, and your country of 2 bit cute hoors!

Idbatterim

That piece from 2013 is little bit dated, given changes in income limits and exchange rates since then. In 2016, the top federal income tax rate of 39.6% kicks in at $415,050 (circa €380,000). Compare that to Ireland, where the top rate of 40% kicks in at €33,800.

yeah permabear, I am aware it is a little outdated, just that image paints a thousands word, but do you know what? ultimately the whole things is beyond a joke anyway, be it 52,51,50,49, its an off the wall rate in a country, where anyone earning that meager amount of E33,800 gets taxed at a rate the mafia would feel extortionate...

The marginal tax rate and system here, is moronic off the wall, immoral and economically damaging, but god forbid, the USC was left untouched and the marginal income tax rate only reduced, sure it would only benefit our elite earning E33.800 plus. What I wouldnt give to know what earning that kind of money would be like LOL! :pac:

Shelga

irelandrover wrote: »

I see this mentioned a lot. top rate of tax in Ireland does indeed kick in at 33800. However that top rate of tax is 40%.

The 40% rate of tax kicks in at £31,786 in the UK. The top rate kicks in at 150000 but that is 45%.

This isn't true actually, you're forgetting the tax-free allowance of £10,600. So the 20% rate only applies to the £31,786 earned over this amount. So you pay 20% tax for the first £42,386 of income- a much lower effective rate than Ireland.

45% kicks in at £150,000.

Reading this thread re-affirms to me that financially, Ireland definitely doesn't make the most sense. However, as someone else said, what I miss most is the people. It's so much more complicated than numbers on a spreadsheet, for the average middle-income earner. Going to see what happens re. job opportunities in England in the next year and keep an open mind to all possibilities.

Can completely understand why most people on this thread would prefer to live somewhere that has a solid social welfare support structure in place. I'd be the same. Social welfare =/= nanny state. Agree it's out of control in Ireland though.

Have to disagree that luck doesn't have much of a bearing on one's position in life. The fact that someone is born in Ireland and not Zimbabwe immediately means they're in an exponentially better position from the second they come into the world. If you accept this, then it's logical to extrapolate that reasoning and apply it to other areas of life where luck has a major part to play. The film Match Point makes some interesting points about luck's role in our lives. :cool:

Permabear

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c_man

It's funny, in the two days since starting this thread I've received a *lot* of messages from recruiters in Dublin telling me about the wonderful positions on offer.

Parky2

c_man wrote: »

It's funny, in the two days since starting this thread I've received a *lot* of messages from recruiters in Dublin telling me about the wonderful positions on offer.

Care to share?

c_man

Parky2 wrote: »

Care to share?

Standard C++/C# positions, same ones you'd get on a Linkedin job search. There is a shortage after all.

Jimoslimos

Permabear wrote: »

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Catholic church influence in our schools is probably less than the conservative religious right have in the US. Creationism anybody?

Not saying our education system is by any means perfect, but you have an extremely rose-tinted (not to mention subjective) view based on a single child privileged enough to afford private education.

Permabear

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