Emigrants, thinking of coming home?

Jimoslimos

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes it's gone downhill fast. I don;t get why people would take offence to people not agreeing with them about a country.

Thing is, as per usual it turned into an Ireland-bashing thread (along with the tiresome libertarian proselytizing from PB). I'm under no illusions that Ireland has many problems but I've also travelled and lived in enough places to understand nowhere is perfect. Grass isn't always greener and all that.

Wibbs

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Ah now would you go away with that. That might work on your locals, but it doesn't fly here so easily and is seen as your usual deflection and ballsology.

Question for ya? Which nation is the major contributor to the current and recent history middle east instability? I'll give you a hint, it ain't Ireland. Question two? How many Syrians will the US take? Do you really believe that if the Syrian/North African/Pakistani migrants were flooding into the US in their hundreds of thousands they'd be allowed to? A Million brown Muslims? yea, right. Well the wealthy would be alright with it as "open borders" means cheaper labour and they wouldn't have to deal with them in their gated neighbourhoods, but the average American? For a nation that was built on the very notion of immigration they're remarkably twitchy over it, unless it's the "right" immigrants of course. Wetbacks need not apply.

Sorry I forgot, you and yours are OK.

I recall a certain country, within relatively recent memory, putting unwed mothers in Magdalene laundries, denying women the right to divorce their abusive spouses, systematically covering up sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests, and even trying to prevent a 14-year-old pregnant victim of rape and incest from traveling abroad for an abortion. Such a country hardly has a proud legacy of taking care of its weakest.

You're now doing a fine impression of a parochial Yank. Kudos. OK, yes Ireland was well out of order and still is in a few areas(abortion for example), however the salient bit is was. We're improving, we see our issues and we're changing them and we did so remarkably rapidly too. The Ireland of 2016 is a very different Ireland to the one of even 1980. America is getting objectively worse, more reactionary, with a growing wealth gap and ever more squeezed middle class.

Sorry I forgot, you and yours are OK.

Did you? I know I didn't. In the mid-1980s, when I was a child, Ireland had a child poverty rate of 35%, the highest in the European Union after Portugal.

You'll note he said "us", not the wider society(but I'll return to that). Did you grow up in poverty in the 80's? How did you get schooled from primary to third level? Did the unemployed in your family if present have to live on the street? Did they have to dig around in bins to eat? That's the level of poverty for quite a sizeable number of Americans today. As for the wider society and poverty in the 80's. How was that measured and how does that measurement differ between the US and Ireland? Have an oul look at page 75 of this here Combat Poverty report on the decade in question. And have an oul look at the percentages while you're at it. Oh and consider that even in those percentages not one child was without free education and free medicine unless their parents chose not to avail of it. And that included you BTW.

Sorry I forgot, you and yours are OK.

steddyeddy wrote:

It doesn't have to be fair it just has to work for me.

You've just summed up the Libertarian mindset and much of how the American Dream(™) actually works.

The average person in Ireland/EU is better off than the average person in the US. The top percentile are far better off in the US and the bottom percentile are far worse and that gap is widening and the middle is narrowing. If you're wealthy then the US is one of the best places on earth to live and work, if you're not, it ain't and hasn't been for a while.

Now ask your average American if this is the case and you can be nearly guaranteed they won't see it like this. Above and beyond the patriotism, as Steinbeck noted "socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Even though the vast majority will never join the upper echelons of the American Dream(™), even the poorest Americans will vote for, support even near worship a society and body politic that does little or nothing for them. At best it sees them as cheap labour(but not cheap enough), charity cases or at worst something to be demonised as lazy, stupid etc. Look at the level of support a crass bully boy like Trump gets from mostly(but not all) poor constituents. Him saying "I'm a billionaire" as an answer and rallying call and the cheers that follow. You couldn't make it up.

Jimoslimos wrote:

Irony. You don't understand it.

I think you have to surrender that at US passport control.

You couldn't give a toss whether 99% of women in the US or anywhere else could afford or access adequate reproductive healthcare just so long as you're ok.

Bingo.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod:

Last few pages have been veering towards world economics, politics and generally a pissing contest. Remember what the thread is supposed to be about, folks. Back on topic.

catbear

anothernight wrote: »

This thread was so much more interesting when it was about personal experiences, not about how one country should be liked by everyone else... because it suits me and because I say so. =/

It still about personal experiences. PBear has given his outlook as to why where he is now works for him and that's fine.
I gave the US a whirl, tried different parts but in the end I wasn't interested in the great game.

But its not just a case of Ireland versus USA, it's also about the actual emigrant experience. I'm back in ireland at the moment and I'm really enjoying it. I really miss the food here when I'm abroad. When you see things like Kerrygold branded as a premium luxury food abroad you start to understand what we take for granted here. Pity we're not much of a seafood nation.

However I'm currently in the process of moving abroad again for career reasons and I'm looking forward to it. I will miss Ireland but I'll also enjoy being in a new place for a few years. Who knows, maybe I'll finally settle there.

I don't know if its a common experience but I never really truly settled back in. I find that I'll never care as much about anything local as I once did before I emigrated as now I've got somewhere else to compare it with. I start to look at countries as either progressive or degressive and I then think about which trajectory I want to be on. It's like there's another nation out there called Expatistan full of people who feel they don't truly belong anywhere except on that thin film of earths surface that supports human life.

Despite our recent woes I am actually optimistic about Ireland for the medium to long term.

Emigration can be a push or pull affair. Right now it's very much the pull of somewhere else for me but someday Ireland might pull me back.

Idbatterim

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/youre-demonised-if-you-earn-over-70000-ibec-boss-34402427.html

You're demonised if you earn over €70,000 - Ibec boss

The "vilification" and repeated targeting of those earning over €70,000 smacks of a system that wants to penalise rather than reward success, the head of the country's biggest business body has claimed.

IBEC director general Danny McCoy, inset, also warned that scrapping or dramatically cutting the Universal Social Charge (USC) risked hollowing out the tax base. The lobby group warned that business was increasingly concerned that "populist" election positions risked repeating serious economic mistakes of the past.
"Yes, we need tax reform, but it needs to be focused on where we are most out of line internationally," Mr McCoy said.
"The vilification and repeated targeting of anyone earning over €70,000 smacks of a country that wants to penalise rather than reward success." The Government introduced USC reductions in the last two Budgets, but capped the benefit at €70,000.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said talk of an economic recovery will lead to high wage expectations but the abolition of the USC can relieve pressure on employers. The Irish Independent reported earlier this month that Fine Gael is planning to introduce a new levy on workers earning over €100,000 after it scraps the controversial tax.
Mr McCoy said Ireland's income tax system is already "unbalanced" and claimed political promises risk making the problem worse.
"The clamour to narrow the tax base by dramatically cutting or abolishing the USC is a race to repeat past mistakes," he said.
"It will hollow out the tax system, make it overly reliant on a small pool of taxpayers and leave Ireland vulnerable to future economic shocks at a time of heightened global uncertainty."

I just put in 100k to the income tax calculator, you come out with €60,500. This "high earner" 100k nonsense, I can only imagine what its like living on 60k net in Dublin! Real wolf of wall street stuff no doubt LOL!

IvyTheTerrible

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/youre-demonised-if-you-earn-over-70000-ibec-boss-34402427.html



I just put in 100k to the income tax calculator, you come out with €60,500. This "high earner" 100k nonsense, I can only imagine what its like living on 60k net in Dublin! Real wolf of wall street stuff no doubt LOL!

God yeah, 60K, what a pittance. :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

God yeah, 60K, what a pittance.

no its not a pittance, but this high earner stuff as if they are living some life totally detached from the welfare warriors with their free houses and everything, the begrudge from them, you would swear the way the difference is made out, that one lives in a hut in africa and the other is the wolf of wall street...

You get all these muppets going "where are ours jabs" well I am sure they support the current system, which wishes to tax enterprise at ridiculous levels, what do they expect, its lose / lose...

anothernight

My boyfriend and I live in a small town near Birmingham. We love it here. There are plenty of career opportunities for me in my industry, whereas most of those roles wouldn't exist in Ireland. For him, professionally, it's about the same in both countries due to the nature of his business, with the exception of the exchange rate: part of his income is in euro and dollars. The NHS suits us better because we have some lifelong health issues to deal with. Here, we pay a fraction of what we'd be paying in Ireland, as he requires very expensive medication and even though it was covered by the Drugs Payment Scheme, €144 per month is still a very noticeable charge, especially compared to having a £104 per year prescription prepay cert!

I never had any intention of living in Ireland long-term (didn't move there by choice) and he never wanted to leave Ireland, but now that we're discussing what we'll do when we decide to start a family, I'm more flexible about moving back. However, now he doesn't want to move back to Ireland. I'd be willing to go back if he felt like he'd be happier there, but if I were single, I'd probably stay here.


The thing with England is that it seems very heterogeneous. My little piece of England is a lovely place to live, very peaceful and friendly, with a great local community and excellent amenities. But drive a few miles down the motorway in any direction, and it's easy to find some pretty nasty places.

At the end of the day, we live here because it suits us. I've lived in several countries at this stage so for me it's a balance of pros and cons, since nowhere will ever be perfect. We'd probably want to reevaluate our choice if we became very wealthy, or if we depended on state assistance, had different careers, had children or any number of other factors that might make another place suit our lifestyle better.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jimgoose

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

God yeah, 60K, what a pittance. :rolleyes:

Whether it's a "pittance" or not is neither here nor there. The problem is €40,000 of people's earned income going to the illiterate clodhoppers we for some reason call Government around here to piss up against the wall.

anothernight

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yeah, that happens. You grow and change, but so does the country you left behind.

IvyTheTerrible

jimgoose wrote: »

Whether it's a "pittance" or not is neither here nor there. The problem is €40,000 of people's earned income going to the illiterate clodhoppers we for some reason call Government around here to piss up against the wall.

I thought paying tax was part of contributing to society?

Man11

Why would anyone want to come back here with our government ruining things and getting pay rises for themselves and their croneys . If your in a sunnier climate stay better off or any other decent country is better than ireland

osarusan

jimgoose wrote: »

Whether it's a "pittance" or not is neither here nor there.

I think the 'pittance' was in response to the comment that 'I can only imagine what its like living on 60k net in Dublin!' It is 'here and there' when that's the point being made.


It isn't any kind of struggle to live on 60K net in Dublin. You could rent a 4-bedroom house in Killiney and still have 30K left over.

jimgoose

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I thought paying tax was part of contributing to society?

Of course it is. What I have a problem with is the almighty hiding a decent income gets around here. A bit of levelling is needed, a readjustment of the tax "curve" to be something more like that in Germany, for example.

kevohmsford

I have only been away just over a year. Enjoying living in the Netherlands. Rent is quite high and probably have less disposable income than Ireland with the health insurance and pension premiums.
Have thought about returning to Ireland but there are more opportunities over here. Only a short flight home when I need to return for family reasons.

Idbatterim

I thought paying tax was part of contributing to society?

yeah it is, what is it in Ireland though about the with hunt against moderate income earners? Now people might say look at Denmark Sweden bla bla bla, yeah fair enough, but thats different, there you pay a lot in and get a lot back out. What do you get here, pay a fortune is f**K all back out. Yet the "tax de high earner" brigade who cant bitch enough about how hard done by they are, get everything on a plate!

FG etc know this is the case, they just dont have the spine to call it as it is, like they do in most other countries, best not upset anyone...

what is the marginal rate now 50%, half you income confiscated when you hit less than €34,000, Ireland "the enterprise economy" and "open for business" GOOD ONE!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

IvyTheTerrible

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

But how much to you have to pay for good healthcare?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

FTA69

Put simply when you pay tax in Ireland you often get dick all back for it in comparison to the UK in my opinion. I get less taxed here than I would in Ireland and I get my refuse, water and also decent health care and education. Infrastructure on the whole seems to be better as well.

jimgoose

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

But how much to you have to pay for good healthcare?

About €3,000 p.a. And at least another sixty quid or so every time either of us sneeze in the direction of a GP, dentist or consultant.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I always thought US health insurance firms were notorious for haggling and trying to back out of paying for care and treatment as much as they can.

anothernight

FTA69 wrote: »

Put simply when you pay tax in Ireland you often get dick all back for it in comparison to the UK in my opinion. I get less taxed here than I would in Ireland and I get my refuse, water and also decent health care and education. Infrastructure on the whole seems to be better as well.

I agree with this. There's very little return for paid taxes in Ireland. However, I think a lot of it is due to people's mentality. Some people don't seem to realise that in other countries people pay taxes in return for services. They know it happens, but it's like it doesn't register in their minds or something.

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be much willingness on the State's part to actually use the tax intake wisely. People happily vote parties in if they're promised giveaway budgets, without realising that these giveaways are often not the best use of the tax intake.

I don't know how that problem could be solved.

andekwarhola

Idbatterim wrote: »

I just put in 100k to the income tax calculator, you come out with €60,500. This "high earner" 100k nonsense, I can only imagine what its like living on 60k net in Dublin! Real wolf of wall street stuff no doubt LOL!

For the record, for a family of two adults/two kids, 60K net actually makes you better off than 73% of the population apparently.

I do agree with the general point here though. One of the most hateful things about Ireland (I also lose a good bit of my salary and bonus to the higher level of tax) is not so much the tax we pay (not just base income tax but your property tax, VAT, USC etc) but that so (relatively) little seemingly accrues from it in regards of infrastructure, health system and so on.

Idbatterim

I thought paying tax was part of contributing to society?

you see it is, this is what those on welfare or paying virtually nothing in taxes keep banging on about. Funny how those protesting about water charges dont see the irony. What people claim that usually mean is, let everyone better off than me pay :rolleyes:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ancapailldorcha

Idbatterim wrote: »

you see it is, this is what those on welfare or paying virtually nothing in taxes keep banging on about. Funny how those protesting about water charges dont see the irony. What people claim that usually mean is, let everyone better off than me pay :rolleyes:

I constantly get into arguments with someone from home on Facebook who thinks that "the rich should be taxed into oblivion." Baffling mentality.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jimgoose

Idbatterim wrote: »

you see it is, this is what those on welfare or paying virtually nothing in taxes keep banging on about. Funny how those protesting about water charges dont see the irony. What people claim that usually mean is, let everyone better off than me pay :rolleyes:

I'm not paying water charges. To hell with them. And I'm rich.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I constantly get into arguments with someone from home on Facebook who thinks that "the rich should be taxed into oblivion." Baffling mentality.

And when these "rich" have been obliterated and their ill-gotten gains redistributed amongst the hardy and righteous Comrades, who then shall be taxed to fund their lifestyle of foaming-at-the-mouth-at-Joe-Duffy?? :pac:

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Indeed. However, the individual in question also demands free water, the Irish language restored to prominence and the expulsion of FG. I'm from Donegal South-West where we elected Pearse Doherty as our TD so it's not a rare attitude sadly. I'm somewhat in favour of progressive taxation myself but there has to be a reasonable cutoff point. I worked out once that someone on €100,000 is £/€12,000 better off in the UK than Ireland. Madness and I say that as someone who has no chance whatsoever of ever pulling that sort of cash.

IvyTheTerrible

Idbatterim wrote: »

you see it is, this is what those on welfare or paying virtually nothing in taxes keep banging on about. Funny how those protesting about water charges dont see the irony. What people claim that usually mean is, let everyone better off than me pay :rolleyes:

I work and I pay quite a bit in taxes and social contributions.

(Also, I don't subscribe to the "tax em to the hilt" brigade. I just think everyone should pay if they want to avail of the services a state provides. Wish people wouldn't quote me and then talk about situations that I never mentioned);

Anyway on topic, no I won't come home but that's because I've made my family here, not because of the situation in Ireland.

jimgoose

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Indeed. However, the individual in question also demands free water, the Irish language restored to prominence and the expulsion of FG. I'm from Donegal South-West where we elected Pearse Doherty as our TD so it's not a rare attitude sadly. I'm somewhat in favour of progressive taxation myself but there has to be a reasonable cutoff point. I worked out once that someone on €100,000 is £/€12,000 better off in the UK than Ireland. Madness and I say that as someone who has no chance whatsoever of ever pulling that sort of cash.

I'm for using €180,000,000 on repairs and upgrades to existing infrastructure as opposed to numerous lip-wobblingly expensive boondoggles, consultants and jollies as well as relocating thousands of shovel-breastfeeders to new, non-existent "jobs", lowering current tax thresholds and introducing more bands before hitting the "big one" at around €120k or so, I want those Fine Gowl jokers tarred-and-feathered, and you can do whatever the hell you like regarding the Irish language except annoy me with it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ancapailldorcha

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm for using €180,000,000 on repairs and upgrades to existing infrastructure as opposed to numerous lip-wobblingly expensive boondoggles, consultants and jollies as well as relocating thousands of shovel-breastfeeders to new, non-existent "jobs", lowering current tax thresholds and introducing more bands before hitting the "big one" at around €120k or so, I want those Fine Gowl jokers tarred-and-feathered, and you can do whatever the hell you like regarding the Irish language except annoy me with it.

I don't want any children I might have to learn Irish at all. It's a horrible thing to inflict on their self esteem and it'd definitely be part of the reason I'm likely to stay abroad.

RDM_83 again

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Thing is, as per usual it turned into an Ireland-bashing thread (along with the tiresome libertarian proselytizing from PB). I'm under no illusions that Ireland has many problems but I've also travelled and lived in enough places to understand nowhere is perfect. Grass isn't always greener and all that.

Stay at home here though did a brief spell in England and moving abroad again soon.

I look at a thread like this and see loads of Ireland bashing, then I look at where the people posting are and they are in completely different types of places, some complaining about high taxes which is fair enough but others are complaining about the faults of the public healthcare system etc so while both types of posters may dislike Ireland they would hate the places the other posters live even more.

Then there is the feeling that posters are coming from a major city abroad and moving to their home town which is most likely a town or small city.

Look at the complaints about nightlife, I complain myself about bar closing hours but living in Dublin I know if I want to I can legally stay out drinking till say 4.30-5 and if I put some effort in I know I could have a much later night illegally/semi-legally at a dance event. No its not Berlin or somewhere but thats a much larger city globally famous for its party scene.

Other things like reproductive rights may be large negatives but the UK isn't far away so the costs will be somewhere between say 300-2000 which is (hopefully there is contraception and fairly easy access to the morning after pill!) a one time cost less than the annual cost of health insurance in many countries. Then there is the fear of an exceptional circumstance Savita case but they are incredibly rare (its like under 40 for ALL maternal deaths in 3 years). Even with the more accurate stats Ireland is only very slightly worse than countries that have some of the best rates and I would hazard that if there was stats that showed rates for non-Irish removed it would still be world leading (thats not racism there's a large over representation).
I'm not trying to argue about the changes needed to Irish law (and I do think some are needed) but I am saying that it would be like me not wanting to raise a family in the English Midlands because of sex abuse gangs, an emotional response to a real problem but one thats realistically very very unlikely to have an impact.


I also see there is quiet a few posters here based in the UK, I get that its a good place to grow a career but wages are lower in general in IMO from what I have seen large parts of Britain are either absolute kips with deprivation far worse than you see in Ireland or incredibly twee and posh, and its a place where people fight to get into religious schools :eek: I heard some absolute horror stories relating to schools in the UK from my English friends.
^^
Thats all rather hypocritical as I am moving back to London but I know its never a place I could live permanently unless I got wealthier.

We are a small country on the very periphery of the continent, yes there is problems but look at any of the studies and we come out on the global scheme of things as actually a very good place to live.

TLDR: Look at what the surveys actually say about Irelands livability and don't compare the life you had in a large city if you move back to you parents hometown. I do get the career thing though!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Idbatterim

I look at a thread like this and see loads of Ireland bashing,

I am bashing it based on certain demographics, if you are low income worker, on welfare or a pensioner here is great. But if we are talking about emigrants returning home, they would really have to question it, because I am assuming most arent low income and arent coming home to sit on the dole... Many will have kids etc, like I mentioned, the ridiculous cost of child care etc...

Tony EH

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm for using €180,000,000 on repairs and upgrades to existing infrastructure as opposed to numerous lip-wobblingly expensive boondoggles, consultants and jollies as well as relocating thousands of shovel-breastfeeders to new, non-existent "jobs":D

Didn't you get the memo Jimmy?

If you're against Irish Water, you're automatically a loony left, triple A, shinnerbot. You can't possibly have come to the conclusion that Irish Water is an unfunny and wasteful joke that's pissing away money quicker than Billy, Bob and Barry down the local bookies on a Saturday afternoon just to keep itself alive.

:pac:

LDN_Irish

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I get that its a good place to grow a career but wages are lower in general in IMO from what I have seen large parts of Britain are either absolute kips with deprivation far worse than you see in Ireland

I thanked your post for the whole content, not just this bit but this is why I'll likely never return to England. The Irish estate I spent my teenage years living in is widely regarded as either the worst or second worse in the town and the town also has an awful reputation. When any of my friends from London visit and see it they say it's really nice. When I go back and visit friends in Forest Gate, Woolwich, Lewisham or Dagenham I don't care about facts or figures, I'd never drag my kids up there.

jimgoose

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am bashing it based on certain demographics, if you are low income worker, on welfare or a pensioner here is great. But if we are talking about emigrants returning home, they would really have to question it, because I am assuming most arent low income and arent coming home to sit on the dole... Many will have kids etc, like I mentioned, the ridiculous cost of child care etc...

It most certainly is not a great place to be on minimum-wage, or any kind of welfare-based fixed income such as Jobseeker's Allowance or the old-age pension.

ancapailldorcha

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I also see there is quiet a few posters here based in the UK, I get that its a good place to grow a career but wages are lower in general in IMO from what I have seen large parts of Britain are either absolute kips with deprivation far worse than you see in Ireland or incredibly twee and posh, and its a place where people fight to get into religious schools :eek: I heard some absolute horror stories relating to schools in the UK from my English friends.
^^
Thats all rather hypocritical as I am moving back to London but I know its never a place I could live permanently unless I got wealthier.

We are a small country on the very periphery of the continent, yes there is problems but look at any of the studies and we come out on the global scheme of things as actually a very good place to live.

TLDR: Look at what the surveys actually say about Irelands livability and don't compare the life you had in a large city if you move back to you parents hometown. I do get the career thing though!

Ireland is definitely a good place to live, no doubting that. However, most of these surveys and studies are generalised and won't suit some people.

I'm a flow cytometrist. That's how specialised I am. It's taken me years to get the experience I have and I could count on one hand the amount of opportunities I've seen in Ireland that might suit me in the past 5 or so years. Worst part is, I'm not even getting the UK average wage with greenbelt legislation effectively prohibiting me from ever owning a property for the next 10 years.

anothernight

Ok ok, I realise this is pretty much off-topic at this stage, but what would it take to fix the issues that are preventing you guys to return to Ireland?

I think it's quite sad that my boyfriend lives so, so close to his own country but doesn't want to go back in the foreseeable future. For him healthcare is the main sticking point. Mine is transport, or the reliance on cars to get to the services I want. Ultimately, both problems are due to mismanagement of public money.


Ireland has a small population. Realistically, how difficult would it be to improve any of these problems? It would have to be through political means, but is it possible to change the political landscape, in the medium term, enough to solve any of these issues? At a time where many people have family and friends in other countries, I would hope it wouldn't be an impossible task to put a sensible party together and convince people to vote for change. Or would it? It seems like most new parties you see are crazy single-issue ones, and the established ones aren't worth speaking about. =/

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

Didn't you get the memo Jimmy?

If you're against Irish Water, you're automatically a loony left, triple A, shinnerbot. You can't possibly have come to the conclusion that Irish Water is an unfunny and wasteful joke that's pissing away money quicker than Billy, Bob and Barry down the local bookies on a Saturday afternoon just to keep itself alive.

:pac:

No, the only memo I got said something along the lines of IW fans who fall over themselves to pay up and defend this outrageous carry-on are generally the most punchable sort of smug, mahogany-headed Blueshirt suckholes!

Tony EH

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am bashing it based on certain demographics, if you are low income worker, on welfare or a pensioner here is great.

It's simply amazing that someone could think this way. Simply amazing...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Aidric

I've been living outside Ireland for 5 years now, 3 years in Prague and 2 in Zurich. Like most emigrants I miss my family but financially it would make little sense for me to return home. Despite the assertions of Enda Kenny that they are attempting to move away from the boom bust cycle, I simply don't trust him and for that matter all other politicians in Ireland. They are populist merchants with no convictions.

When you get to my age (Mid 30's) your focus switches rapidly to financial security and future family commitments. Does Ireland offer me a better option than Switzerland? Currently, no.

I'm not ruling out ever returning to Ireland but currently it's not an appealing option.

jester77

anothernight wrote: »

Ok ok, I realise this is pretty much off-topic at this stage, but what would it take to fix the issues that are preventing you guys to return to Ireland?

I think it's quite sad that my boyfriend lives so, so close to his own country but doesn't want to go back in the foreseeable future. For him healthcare is the main sticking point. Mine is transport, or the reliance on cars to get to the services I want. Ultimately, both problems are due to mismanagement of public money.


Ireland has a small population. Realistically, how difficult would it be to improve any of these problems? It would have to be through political means, but is it possible to change the political landscape, in the medium term, enough to solve any of these issues? At a time where many people have family and friends in other countries, I would hope it wouldn't be an impossible task to put a sensible party together and convince people to vote for change. Or would it? It seems like most new parties you see are crazy single-issue ones, and the established ones aren't worth speaking about. =/

A start would be people paying what it actually costs to keep a good health system running. Health insurance is mandatory here, every working person pays over 15% of their salary into the public system or a fixed amount if they go private. The system is far from perfect, but it is a different league to the Irish system. I am private as it's cheaper than being public for me, it works out at around €6000 a year just for myself, kids are €200 each a month. It's an unbalanced system as I get better treatment by being private and it costs me less than if I went public.

ancapailldorcha

anothernight wrote: »

Ok ok, I realise this is pretty much off-topic at this stage, but what would it take to fix the issues that are preventing you guys to return to Ireland?

I think it's quite sad that my boyfriend lives so, so close to his own country but doesn't want to go back in the foreseeable future. For him healthcare is the main sticking point. Mine is transport, or the reliance on cars to get to the services I want. Ultimately, both problems are due to mismanagement of public money.


Ireland has a small population. Realistically, how difficult would it be to improve any of these problems? It would have to be through political means, but is it possible to change the political landscape, in the medium term, enough to solve any of these issues? At a time where many people have family and friends in other countries, I would hope it wouldn't be an impossible task to put a sensible party together and convince people to vote for change. Or would it? It seems like most new parties you see are crazy single-issue ones, and the established ones aren't worth speaking about. =/

The main thing for me would be finding not just a job but one that would be conducive to my career development. I'd also like to see the tax system looked at as I am fairly sure it wouldn't be enough to rent a solo property in Dublin on €33,800 per annum.

It's a shame as some people would have reason to return home. Parents age, property outside Dublin is quite cheap and many multinationals are based in Ireland. Ultimately, this 70,000 nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

anothernight

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Stay at home here though did a brief spell in England and moving abroad again soon.

I look at a thread like this and see loads of Ireland bashing, then I look at where the people posting are and they are in completely different types of places, some complaining about high taxes which is fair enough but others are complaining about the faults of the public healthcare system etc so while both types of posters may dislike Ireland they would hate the places the other posters live even more.

Well, obviously. Different places suit different people. Ireland suits a lot of people too, but they won't be replying to the question of whether they'll be returning to Ireland, will they? :P

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I also see there is quiet a few posters here based in the UK, I get that its a good place to grow a career but wages are lower in general in IMO

This depends massively on what you do. Before I went back to university, I was earning more here than I would in Ireland in the closest similar role (what I did doesn't seem to exist in Ireland). The minimum wage here is slightly less than Ireland, but £10600 of what you earn here is tax free, which means that for some people they're still better off here. And then the cost of living can be lower (but not always). It's one of those aspects you simply cannot compare by looking at numbers rather than the whole picture.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

We are a small country on the very periphery of the continent, yes there is problems but look at any of the studies and we come out on the global scheme of things as actually a very good place to live.

Having lived in a good few countries, I would take those studies with a large pinch of salt, because of what I mentioned above: it's just too difficult to compare on a non-individual basis. What each of us can do is pick and choose what our priorities are, and then decide where we can be happier. In this thread a lot of people prefer where they are, but if you were to start a thread asking whether people would move abroad, I'd say you'd get lots of people who prefer to live in Ireland.