Emigrants, thinking of coming home?

Crann na Beatha

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Tony EH

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ultimately, this 70,000 nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

It's just another part of FG lies to get back into power. Vote for us and we'll bring you kds back home.



The world and his wife knows it's absolute cobblers.

steddyeddy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ireland is definitely a good place to live, no doubting that. However, most of these surveys and studies are generalised and won't suit some people.

I'm a flow cytometrist. That's how specialised I am. It's taken me years to get the experience I have and I could count on one hand the amount of opportunities I've seen in Ireland that might suit me in the past 5 or so years. Worst part is, I'm not even getting the UK average wage with greenbelt legislation effectively prohibiting me from ever owning a property for the next 10 years.

You're however you package yourself as! You could just say cell biologist.

jimgoose

jester77 wrote: »

A start would be people paying what it actually costs to keep a good health system running...

The health budget here is enough to keep two good health systems it's size running. A start would be a complete overhaul of the way the thing is currently mismanaged, and for the various political outfits to stop treating the HSE and the public service generally as a sort of vote hoorhouse.

ancapailldorcha

steddyeddy wrote: »

You're however you package yourself as! You could just say cell biologist.

I've only really done Flow work in the last few years though. Never done PCR and my last ELISAs were in 2009.

Shelga

anothernight wrote: »

Ok ok, I realise this is pretty much off-topic at this stage, but what would it take to fix the issues that are preventing you guys to return to Ireland?

I think it's quite sad that my boyfriend lives so, so close to his own country but doesn't want to go back in the foreseeable future. For him healthcare is the main sticking point. Mine is transport, or the reliance on cars to get to the services I want. Ultimately, both problems are due to mismanagement of public money.


Ireland has a small population. Realistically, how difficult would it be to improve any of these problems? It would have to be through political means, but is it possible to change the political landscape, in the medium term, enough to solve any of these issues? At a time where many people have family and friends in other countries, I would hope it wouldn't be an impossible task to put a sensible party together and convince people to vote for change. Or would it? It seems like most new parties you see are crazy single-issue ones, and the established ones aren't worth speaking about. =/

Don't get me wrong, I had a bit of a rant but I think Ireland is a nice place to live in many ways, I grew up in Dublin though so never really massively encountered that small-town mentality. I have ruled nothing out with regard to coming home in the future.

For me, housing is a massive issue. I really, strongly considered living outside Dublin but I know I just wouldn't take to it. I'd have to move into a different sector of manufacturing to live in Dublin, and even then I don't think it's the right place to be for that industry. I could maybe afford a 1 bed apartment in an OK area, or a 2 bed in a crappy area. That's assuming I don't rent somewhere at ~€1200 a month.

The turning point was when I was on the phone to a recruiter recently, discussing employment opportunities in Ireland, and she was strongly pushing me to a role with a company I had already looked into in Tuam, and I actually started laughing down the phone to her. The idea of quitting my job here with one of the most successful and rapidly-expanding companies in the UK to go and work in Tuam. :pac: I think I got a hold of myself at that point.

No point blaming the government and stamping my feet about being unable to live in a nice part of Dublin on my own, I'll just carry on over here for now.

So yeah, tax, housing, cost of buying and running a car, health system, parish pump politics... If all these even started to change slightly I would revisit the idea of coming home. Because I think Dublin is a lovely city.

But I won't hold my breath.

Idbatterim

It most certainly is not a great place to be on minimum-wage, or any kind of welfare-based fixed income such as Jobseeker's Allowance or the old-age pension.

well go compare the uk and germany two close rich neighbors, see what you get there & yeah you may get more out in the nordic countries, where you will have paid a lot in. In Ireland people are getting a lot out of the system, considering the pittance they have paid in...

I think people here dont have any basis for comparison, listen to too much vincent browne and the usual suspects telling them how bad they have it. Based on what comparison? Lets look at a few close first would neighbours. Lets start, my dads German pension is e90 a week, based on what you paid in, he moved here in 82, a very "fair" system in my opinion. Social insurance, what you get paid out, is based on what you paid in!

Jimoslimos

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm a flow cytometrist. That's how specialised I am. It's taken me years to get the experience I have and I could count on one hand the amount of opportunities I've seen in Ireland that might suit me in the past 5 or so years. Worst part is, I'm not even getting the UK average wage with greenbelt legislation effectively prohibiting me from ever owning a property for the next 10 years.

It was the lack of opportunities that forced me out as well, but that's because Ireland is a relatively tiny country on the periphery of Europe. Population wise we'd be smaller than Birmingham. If I lived in a rural part of the US or up in the highlands in Scotland I'd imagine I'd need to relocate aswell - albeit within the same country.

Cool that you do flow cytometry though, might pick your brains sometime!

ancapailldorcha

Jimoslimos wrote: »

It was the lack of opportunities that forced me out as well, but that's because Ireland is a relatively tiny country on the periphery of Europe. Population wise we'd be smaller than Birmingham. If I lived in a rural part of the US or up in the highlands in Scotland I'd imagine I'd need to relocate aswell - albeit within the same country.

Cool that you do flow cytometry though, might pick your brains sometime!

Of course!!

anothernight

jester77 wrote: »

A start would be people paying what it actually costs to keep a good health system running. Health insurance is mandatory here, every working person pays over 15% of their salary into the public system or a fixed amount if they go private. The system is far from perfect, but it is a different league to the Irish system. I am private as it's cheaper than being public for me, it works out at around €6000 a year just for myself, kids are €200 each a month. It's an unbalanced system as I get better treatment by being private and it costs me less than if I went public.

I see that a lot of countries use different healthcare systems and many of them work (France, UK, Canada, etc) yet for some reason Ireland's way is very broken. I really think they're gonna have to overhaul the HSE to fix it. In my family, the problems have mostly been accessing the service; it's like our local doctors are decent once an illness is known, but their diagnostic skills are completely lacking. But at least they have medical cards now... which is very unfair for people who have to pay just to visit their GP.

My main personal experience with other healthcare systems is with Spain in the 90s (before copay was introduced) and the NHS now. Both are funded through general taxation, and both provide services for free. Does the way you say have any exceptions for people on lower incomes or students? Because for me, until I finish my masters, I wouldn't be able to pay 15% of my current salary for healthcare.

steddyeddy

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've only really done Flow work in the last few years though. Never done PCR and my last ELISAs were in 2009.

UCD has a good flow cytometry set up. You could write to the lab there. Dr.Blanco knows his stuff.

catbear

@anothernight.
I think comparisons with industrialised nations are always going to show how much harder it is provide services common in large cities in a sparsely populated country like Ireland. On the plus side we didn't have the post industrial social problems that make our worst housing estates look tame by other "advanced" economies.
The national bias is towards suburban, we've some of the biggest houses in europe at the same time as having some of the smallest shoebox apartments.
Plus there a huge reluctance amongst older generations to downsize as they get old. Rather than live in assisted living or retirement communities they'd rely on public services and are more likely to end up on trolleys in a&e waiting for days while priority cases are cleared. This age quake will pass.
But that's why I'm optimistic about Ireland in long term. People at my age who've gone through the rigmaroll with our parents are planning for a phased older age.
From the treatment I saw my parents in the local public hospital I'd be glad to retire here. The only problem was a sibling who listens to too much Joe Duffy imagining faults where were none. That hysteria which Irish media loves was more stressful than dealing with my parents inevitable demise.

anothernight

Shelga wrote: »

So yeah, tax, housing, cost of buying and running a car, health system, parish pump politics... If all these even started to change slightly I would revisit the idea of coming home. Because I think Dublin is a lovely city.

But I won't hold my breath.

That's the thing though. I understand that you can't vote anyway because you're outside of Ireland (and fwiw, I can't either because I'm not Irish) but unless people start voting differently, nothing will change.

Ireland itself is a nice country. Lovely people, beautiful landscapes. Hey, I even like the Irish weather! :P

So maybe if people tried to fix it a bit, it wouldn't be haemorrhaging its population! A lot of the issues are due to having a small population in the first place, but others should be fixable. And a lot of it comes down to fixing public services.

anothernight

catbear wrote: »

@anothernight.
I think comparisons with industrialised nations are always going to show how much harder it is provide services common in large cities in a sparsely populated country like Ireland.

I agree, up until the point I realise that the sparse population is caused by deficiencies in planning.

Regardless, even if the population distribution of the country isn't favourable, I think there's still room for improvement. Having said that, Ireland is very different now than when I first moved there, and imo the change was for the better.

Idbatterim

That's especially true because 38% of emigrants said they were in work before they left Ireland

I was sure I read the other day, that 6 out of 7 that left the country were actually employed when they left Ireland!

Permabear

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Idbatterim

permabear has hit the nail on the head, exactly and I mean exactly those areas are what I would be targeting. Another one, not controversial, well not controversial for anyone that isnt on the take or a vested interest. Public sector procurement, I can only imagine the value for money we are getting there :rolleyes:

Important because I want my daughter to grow up understanding that she will have a better, happier life if she is entrepreneurial and economically productive.

To a large extent work ethic is passed on from the parents to the kids anyway permabear, I certainly wouldnbt be worrying about your kids and work ethic. Who I think it is more important for, is those parents who dont have a work ethic or not a strong one, to get them and their kids out of that cycle...And the government enable it, that is the hilarious / depressing thing!

1) Reduce income and capital gains taxes, and end the culture of punitive taxation on higher earners. Important to me because, above a reasonable contribution to fund services, my money is my own.

on this point permabear, I would say reduce taxes for middle to high earners personally (more bands and lower the rates), the low income ones are already paying in as good as nothing in direct taxes...

Permabear

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RDM_83 again

FTA69 wrote: »

Put simply when you pay tax in Ireland you often get dick all back for it in comparison to the UK in my opinion. I get less taxed here than I would in Ireland and I get my refuse, water and also decent health care and education. Infrastructure on the whole seems to be better as well.

How much are you paying in council taxes/rates, they can be very high.

In terms of education, as far as I can see its extremely patchy, I was educated in NI (still go back for the NHS ) and I think I had a superior education than most in the non fee payers in the Republic, two of my A-level science teachers would give free extra classes once a week, good labs and up to date books, Catholic school but we read stuff like "a Handmaids Tale" and had a handful of protestant teachers, and this was in a school with 30% of students receiving free meals.
But the North is unusual and I went to a good school as I said in previous post I heard absolute horror stories about some peoples experiences in England particularly in London where AFAIK your based, metal detectors on the doors, gangs, horrific bullying, extremism. Like unless your inheriting or earn Permabear style money do you think you could actually be able to live in an area of London with decent non fee paying schools?

LDN_Irish wrote: »

When I go back and visit friends in Forest Gate,

Only spent a short time in Forest Gate (think mentioned this before?) but I would love to set up a scheme to send starry eyed liberals there to see how it effects how they view things because I know if I had stayed there I would have become a far more bigoted person (than I already am )

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ireland is definitely a good place to live, no doubting that. However, most of these surveys and studies are generalised and won't suit some people.

I'm a flow cytometrist. That's how specialised I am. It's taken me years to get the experience I have and I could count on one hand the amount of opportunities I've seen in Ireland that might suit me in the past 5 or so years. Worst part is, I'm not even getting the UK average wage with greenbelt legislation effectively prohibiting me from ever owning a property for the next 10 years.

I get this completely, know a bunch of people in the Netherlands because thats where they can work in what they studied,its just the assertion that Ireland has lower wages that gets me, as far as I can see if you can actually get the job in Ireland your likely to be better off than the UK

anothernight wrote: »

Well, obviously. Different places suit different people. Ireland suits a lot of people too, but they won't be replying to the question of whether they'll be returning to Ireland, will they?

Other posters have sort of dealt with what I was going to say about Irelands position as a small country, what I am getting mildly annoyed about is the idea that there is a terrible nightlife poor schools bad attitudes massive taxes.
I am not a fan of FG but if you look at Dublin or Cork there is a lot going on here at the minute particularly if you have the right skill sets (loads of multinationals) it wouldn't actually be a bad time to return to Ireland, yes Enda is putting a spin on things and most that have gone won't come back but compare our situation to the Spanish Italians or even French I know who going back to their countries wouldn't even be an option.

K-9

Aren't politicians held in contempt in every country though? I'd say if you went onto a German or Swiss style boards there'd be some moaning about their lot and their system.

IamtheWalrus

I never got any respect in Ireland. Constantly bullied and dismissed. I went to the UK and have flourished. I won't be returning any time soon (unless to retire).

Earthhorse

I like RDM's post on things there. People are comparing chalk and cheese here. It's totally understandable why individuals would choose to live abroad and not be interested in coming back based on their circumstances. A friend of mine moved to London because there's a better theatre scene (not her living, her hobby) and she's thriving there. Another couple left Ireland because there were limited opportunities here and they far prefer the UK but it's worth noting they couldn't survive there without support from her father (who's essentially a millionaire).

But they way people talk about the countries after that! Embarrassing! America is not hell on earth. Neither is Ireland. The UK is not some blissful idyll. We are basically choosing amongst some of the top countries in the world here. The differences are often pretty marginal.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ireland is definitely a good place to live, no doubting that. However, most of these surveys and studies are generalised and won't suit some people.

I'm a flow cytometrist. That's how specialised I am. It's taken me years to get the experience I have and I could count on one hand the amount of opportunities I've seen in Ireland that might suit me in the past 5 or so years. Worst part is, I'm not even getting the UK average wage with greenbelt legislation effectively prohibiting me from ever owning a property for the next 10 years.

That's totally understandable but sadly Ireland can't be all things to all people. It's a tiny island and more importantly has a tiny population. I wish there were more opportunities in Ireland too.

It's worth noting though, that the opposite happens too; quite a bit, in fact. That is, people leave their home countries to come to Ireland.

I know an American family who moved here because they found the US was just becoming more and more uncivil during the Bush era. You couldn't have a reasonable disagreement with someone anymore. They love it here.

A Canadian girl I know loves the artistic community here and says it feels like home.

An Israeli guy I know came here because of a job opportunity in Google.

The way some people talk in this thread you would swear it's impossible for anyone to rate Ireland once they've had any experience abroad but they are only injecting their own viewpoint into the population at large.

thattequilagirl

c_man wrote: »

I wasn't surprised to read recently that "one out of every six Irish-born people currently resides in another country" recently. It seems it's an issue the government have been dodging due to making the unemployment figures etc look good but are now making noise about e.g. Enda saying he wants to make it more attractive for emigrants to return by various tax changes (but then of course that plays well with parents in the upcoming election...). It seems like things are picking up back home slightly anyways.

So emigrants of AH, would you consider moving home? Or are ye well settled in your chosen destination? I gotta say most of my friends who live abroad don't seem like they're in any rush back. I can only think of one who actually wants to in the near future (doesn't want to raise a family in the US) but admits this will mean a substantial pay cut.

I'm not too long out of the country so not thinking of returning just yet, though I've always assumed I will at some stage.

I moved home in December after 6 years away. I came home at least twice a year most years, so I never really lost touch with the idea that Ireland was home. I took a not insubstantial pay cut to come home, but my experience abroad landed me a decent job pretty quickly.

I haven't regretted my decision for one minute. I can't explain why. It's just home. People get me. I don't have to explain my jokes. I have old friends here. The ones that know me inside out.

M Anonymous

Swiss don't moan like here. Or maybe it is as much but differently, at least as much as I can tell from my not very good German.

I don't think we'll be back any time soon. Very happy the kids were born there in the years we were back, but can't see them having time in an Irish school at the rate we're going.

It would be good to go back, but it isn't possible

madmac187

Maybe I could come home, but then again I'm not one of the minorities in the majority of Ireland whereby if you pay your way, they screw you, so maybe I should claim asylum, draw the dole, rob my neighbours because the cops don't give a ****, especially if you don't live in Dublin, a place where cops are debt collectors, you are told when you are not allowed a drink at a certain time, can't drive any a nice car because you will get raped for the price of it or gouged for car tax, expect to pay insurance for someone else who built a house in a flood plan, take so much money in tax and usc from your wage and expected to work for nothing. So no I won't fully move back. End of rant! I'm sorry to offend but Ireland is finished.

c_man

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I moved home in December after 6 years away. I came home at least twice a year most years, so I never really lost touch with the idea that Ireland was home. I took a not insubstantial pay cut to come home, but my experience abroad landed me a decent job pretty quickly.

I haven't regretted my decision for one minute. I can't explain why. It's just home. People get me. I don't have to explain my jokes. I have old friends here. The ones that know me inside out.

Yeah that's a good point. The "craic" for lack of a better word is important to me. I could never live in Finland, Sweden or the likes (sorry guys!). That sense of... God I dunno, character? is important to me in a place to live.

I'm in Scotland so it's not too bad :pac:

ubermick

Earthhorse wrote: »

The way some people talk in this thread you would swear it's impossible for anyone to rate Ireland once they've had any experience abroad but they are only injecting their own viewpoint into the population at large.

Very true. Few years after moving here, this was probably 1999 or 2000, met an Irish couple when I was in Washington DC. Chatted with them a bit, the wife was very nice. Bit of a back and forth about the differences, the things we missed and the things we didn't miss. Soon as the topic got to the things we missed, the husband uttered his first words in the conversation: "I miss nothing about that place. I'll never set foot in that godforsaken hole again."

Erm, fair enough.

It's the begrudger culture. And that's not just Irish though, it's global. But us Irish do have a bit of an insular notion when it comes to the ****e we deal with on a day to day basis. I hear people moan about Enda Kenny and I laugh. The day Enda Kenny launches a pointless war in the middle east that results in tens of thousands dead, get back to me. Water charges? Annoying as feck, but the very very very first bill I paid in America way back in 1996 was, wait for it, a water bill. Outraged I pointed out that water fell from the sky and was free, but my American counterparts pointed out that while that was true, the infrastructure to gather, purify, and bring it to my tap wasn't. Dodgy Guards? Tell those stories to the people of Ferguson, MO. Government not looking out for you? Sure that's the same the world over.

My 42 years on the planet has seen me wander a lot, and I can safely say that the struggles of your everyday Irishman or woman pale in comparison to the rest of the planet. The issues are purely first world, and frankly many don't know how well they have it.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I can't explain why. It's just home. People get me. I don't have to explain my jokes. I have old friends here. The ones that know me inside out.

I wish I could put my finger on that as well. About the same time as the above happened, I was sitting in an Irish pub in DC, lamenting about my life. My move to America was far from, at the time anyways, the "dream" I'd been led to believe it would be. I hated everything about my life here, and regretted ever getting on the plane. Wallowing in my pint and self pity, another expat at the bar took noticed and asked how it was going. We got to chatting, and explained the situation to him. He listened, nodded in understanding, and told me of the pull. The pull wasn't something I was feeling there and then. What I was doing, was just feeling sorry for myself. The pull is something different. It wouldn't happen for a few years, it may not happen at all. But if and when it did, I'd know all about it. In the meantime, he suggested, I should get up off my backside, and make a fist of my life in America.

Took that to heart. Copped myself on, and realized I was living in a different place. Its not better, its not worse, its just different. But over time, you come to know if you can put up with the differences or not. The things that are calling me back aren't pints of Guinness or the green fields, or any of the other schtick I hear about. It's those intangible things you point out... the way I can tell a joke and get a laugh, rather than confused looks. I can say something without thinking, and people know where I'm coming from rather than thinking I'm off my head. There's a sense of understanding and comfort that just doesn't exist here in America for me.

Shelga

anothernight wrote: »

That's the thing though. I understand that you can't vote anyway because you're outside of Ireland (and fwiw, I can't either because I'm not Irish) but unless people start voting differently, nothing will change.

Ireland itself is a nice country. Lovely people, beautiful landscapes. Hey, I even like the Irish weather! :P

So maybe if people tried to fix it a bit, it wouldn't be haemorrhaging its population! A lot of the issues are due to having a small population in the first place, but others should be fixable. And a lot of it comes down to fixing public services.

I understand the point you're making, but a few years ago I felt they couldn't wait to get rid of me, to ease the burden on social welfare and fudge the statistics. I graduated from university in 2010 and left in 2011- to say the atmosphere was bleak is an understatement.

Should I have sat around on the dole for years on end, waiting for the day I could have my vote to change the system?

If Enda wants us all back, maybe he should extend voting rights to those living abroad for less than 10 years.

And actually, I voted in both the UK general and Irish European elections last May, as I happened to fly home that day.

kuntboy

Permabear wrote: »

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Will never happen because they need the tax to pay the bloated public sector and social welfare bills and therefore, buy their vote.

2) Root-and-branch educational reform. Remove mandatory Irish, improve focus on STEM skills and foreign languages, and make sure every parent has the option of sending a child to a nondenominational school. Important to me because I'm the parent of a school-going child.

Will never happen as the Teacher's Union have the country by the balls. Only if computer auto-teaching was introduced or something

3) Hold a referendum to repeal the 8th amendment, so that full reproductive health services, including abortion, can be made available to all Irish girls and women. Important to me because if I ever did come back to Ireland, I'd be with my girlfriend and our respective daughters. I would never want them to be treated as second-class citizens.

Just go to England

4) Invest in infrastructure (roads, schools, hospitals, etc.) and quality services, rather than paying public servants more money to do the same job. Important to me because I want to live in a country that is focused on investing in the future rather than rewarding the politically connected or using handouts to win elections.

See 1

5) Comprehensive social welfare reform. Helping the genuinely needy is one thing; keeping half the country's population on social welfare is quite another. Foster a culture of work rather than state dependency. Important because I want my daughter to grow up understanding that she will have a better, happier life if she is entrepreneurial and economically productive.

See 1

catbear

well regardless of the pros and cons of staying/going what I do find amazing is that this dialogue was pretty much impossible the first time I left Ireland in the 80s.

The internet has been an absolute boon to the emigrant.

When I first went to the US keeping in touch wasn't cheap, airfares were outrageous by todays standards. (that's why I still champion Ryanair, a lot of people don't remember the crazy aerlingus monopoly fares that made catching the boat to fishguard the budget option to the UK.)

Now anytime I'm away I don't feel so cut off. I'm aware of whats going on but can remain detached if I want. For me the internet has completely changed the emigrant experience and I wouldn't be surprised if in time a diaspora forum develops, sharing useful moving tips and occupation opportunities abroad etc..

Permabear

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Permabear

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osarusan

Permabear wrote: »

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Unfortunately, there are some posters on boards who would seem to be happy to keep the phrase in use.

VisibleGorilla

I lived abroad for a few years, US, then UK, came back a while ago and absolutely hate it.

From my own experience and that of friends who have also returned we all regret it, most of them have left again and I will soon follow suit.

ancapailldorcha

osarusan wrote: »

Unfortunately, there are some posters on boards who would seem to be happy to keep the phrase in use.

There are even clinics in the UK that give discounts to women if they can prove they booked flights to travel over from Ireland.

Sleepy

Fascinating reading.

I'd love to emigrate and, tbh, was planning to until my other half became pregnant. As my step-son's dad lives in Dublin, however, even moving back west is off the table for at least a decade or so.

I've spent enough time in London for work to know that I wouldn't want to raise kids there but it's an amazing place for anyone with a decent income or the prospects to achieve one in their 20's (or beyond if you don't plan on having a family). Would have loved to have spent a few years there in my younger years and know I'd be in a far better place financially had I done so.

catbear

You don't know what opportunity may come in the future sleepy. If you have means to either to keep your skills then maybe in time a chance to live elsewhere might turn up.

My brother moved to Canada through his job in ireland and he's got a load of kids of different ages.

They moved back but on the whole they all really enjoyed the experience.

Sleepy

I've plenty of opportunity, get contacts from UK recruiters 2/3 times a week and know from a short stint of contracting there after a redundancy that I can make significantly more money there but my family situation prevents it.

Maybe once the kids are grown though. No point in making plans for over a decade into the future though!

FatherTed

I was offered a transfer to the US back in 1992, so long story short, came here, then got Morrison visa, fell in love, got married, now have 3 kids, the oldest getting ready for college. US is home to me now, I do get back every second year or so but less often as time goes on.

Unfortunately, my family back there were very rude to my wife back when we were dating as she is of a different background, even giving me job postings in Dublin after we told them we were getting married and settling in the US. They did apologize later on but it hasn't been the same since. While we go back to visit they(parents+siblings) have only come here once since we gotten married. Plus they've embarrassed me by missing some important family events we've had with some excuse while my wife's family traveled from the west coast and overseas. Their loss.

Anyways I won't be moving back, don't really miss it at all.

ubermick

It's a to each their own thing, really. Different horses for different courses. I know I was the same way as Ted there, had no desire to move back, and loved my life in California. Wasn't until the first child came along that changed everything. And heard that a lot from others that I've discussed my dilemma on whether to stay or move back with, that children change your outlook on the world. For him, he didn't mind having his kids growing up there, for me it's different.

There's no denying that there's better employment opportunities elsewhere - I mean, that's why 99% of us got on the plane in the first place. But at some point, while the money is great, other things start to matter more. Nice houses and cars, toys and gadgets only go so far in terms of making you happy.

Of the half dozen or so Irish people I know who've moved back, it's a fairly even split between regret and relief. Those who were single, or married without kids, hate it and would get on the plane back to the US or Oz in the morning if they could. Those with kids are glad they went back. Apart from one family, who went back when their kids were old enough to have established a life in America, and have a very hard time to adjusting to life in Ireland.

smurgen

keith16 wrote: »

If you are considering it, I couldn't recommend it strongly enough. Spending power and general sense of security is fantastic.

I can bring the kids out cycling and never see a car thanks to an extensive off road cycling / walking routes.

I could go on.

It's not perfect either, but it's close.

I lived there for a few years.there's lots wrong with the place.socially it's a very messed up country and racism is blatant.they only embrace free markets when it suits them and the most of certain things are ridiculously expensive there and companies have some very sharp practices,the likes of which you wouldn't get away with in Ireland.

Oranage2

Haven't lived in Ireland for 3 years now, can't see myself coming back anytime soon.

nyarlothothep

The plus side of Ireland is that there is a nice vibe from the landscape and nature that you can find anywhere else, it's just a vibe, that's all I could describe it as. The negatives: minor ones would include the Irish sense of humour and 'banter', not that funny and not that particularly interesting/entertaining despite the self congratulatory pats on the back Irish people give themselves but that's just my opinion. Also the pronounced anti-intellectualism ("shur what are ye on about, dats crazy talk" etc) cliqueyness, false affability, conservatism, insularity and the fact that you can't really achieve anything grand of scope or unusual outside the norm, that would be same anywhere but due to the small size of Ireland it's vastly more difficult to find something interesting/meaningful in terms of work. The self hating aspect of Ireland is evident once you've been abroad, people are assholes everywhere across the planet so every culture has deficient aspects including Ireland. It's not the worst country by a mile, it's actually pretty good, it just has many annoying features but that goes for any country, some much more so than others in fact.

Goat Paddock

Things might be on the up in Ireland but who knows if it will turn sour again in a few years.

huggles85

Living in the UK 6 years,wouldn't have had the opportunities I've had if I'd stayed at home.
I probably would have come back around now but I met someone in the UK and it changed everything. I think we'd have to heavily compromise on my partners work set up if we were to come back and that's currently something we aren't willing to do so we'll stay put for now I think.

Cupcake_Crisis

A girl I work with (canadian) is moving to Ireland at the end of April and she's been filling me in on the costs of her visa. I should say that my visa AND insurance for 2 years cost just under €550.

Her visa alone cost in the region of €500. Her insurance for ONE year is €700, when she lands she has to pay €300 to get a pps so she can pay taxes (the canadian equivalent cost me nothing). My jaw was on the floor when she started listing off the fees.

So it would appear that Ireland is pretty dead set on making life difficult for you whether you're a citizen or non national.

Parky2

smurgen wrote: »

I lived there for a few years.there's lots wrong with the place.socially it's a very messed up country and racism is blatant.they only embrace free markets when it suits them and the most of certain things are ridiculously expensive there and companies have some very sharp practices,the likes of which you wouldn't get away with in Ireland.

Judging from your punctuation and the garbled content of your post I very much doubt that you ever worked there. If you care to expand on your claims we could discuss!

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Cunning Stunt

Living in denmark 8 yrs and planning to move home this year. Moved here as my OH is danish. Have been in full time employment since I arrived. Had 3 babies here, have a mortgage etc. But it has always felt like home from home. I am close with my siblings and miss them all more and more. Lost our dad last year to lung cancer so really feeling how important family is now. Am also fed up with how expensive everything is here. Cars cost 3 times the irish price because of a ridiculous 180% tax on top of the original price. Groceries, clothing etc.all more expensive. Will miss the free doctors visit and good childcare though, but thats life. I am worried about finding work for me and my husband when we get to ireland, and rent prices seem to be on the up too, not to mention the amount of rental properties on the decrease, but Ireland is where we want to be so I tell myself it will work out.

speedboatchase

Living in Qatar 3.5 years and though I've grown a bit tired of the place, was offered a job that I couldn't turn down recently. So I'll start that in a month or two, do it at least 12 months, and perhaps finally return home in late 2017!