Bressie now the voice of mental health in Ireland?

PressRun

I think it's probably worth noting that not everyone actually wants to talk about their mental health with anyone other than a professional, and someone not wanting to openly discuss it doesn't mean that that person feels like they can't. They just don't want to and they don't actually owe it to anyone to do so. We live in a culture of confession nowadays where we see people going on talk shows all the time to talk about their struggles with alcoholism or drug addiction, or writing tell-all books about themselves and their personal struggles, and we start to think that that sort of openness is what every person needs or wants. Not true.

The Black Oil

Not a huge fan of Mr. Bresslin, I'll admit. There is always the risk with celebrities of overexposure wherein the persona becomes bigger than the message. That said, I do think it's important for someone like to keep beating the drum and occasionally highlight individual cases like the recent Caoilte Ó Broin tragedy and the gap in services.

smash wrote: »

Mental health issues should never be normalised is society, because it's not normal!

You're aware of the history of homosexuality and the DSM, I presume?

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My problem with the whole talking about it and awareness theories is that they'll be going into secondary schools and telling teenagers that they are depressed. When in reality they are just feeling down in the dumps.

Every Teenager already has ADHD and will soon be genderfluid. Now they are being told that they are depressed and they should 1) talk about it 2) get medical help 3) buy bressies book* 4) run Bressies triathlons. *somebody actually proposed to put it on the school curriculum.

If you are going to constantly expose and "educate" teenagers on depression, guess what??? They are going to think they have depression. Just like they all have ADHD.

I think we need to think about Godwin equivalent to call out claims that 'ADHD is overdiagnosed' and not backed up.

A while ago, I was talking to a professional who moved here in the 90s and mental health was a compete no go for the likes of radio. There was no discussion of mental health when I was in secondary school. There were no leaflets about mental health outside of the chaplain or guidance counsellor's office. Only college prospectuses. Looking back, the absence of such information for that time late 90s/early 2000s I would consider that normal for that time. Now I would consider it somewhat abnormal if those staff members didn't have some leaflets/info to give to students in significant emotional distress.

Let me clear that external visitors to schools needs to be monitored appropriately. If they are coming to talk about mental health in a general or personal way, they should stick to that brief. If we are talking about anything more than that such as a well-being programme, it should be evidence based. If I were in a position of authority in a school I would be very insistent about this.

There is also the long view. If you consider that most mental health problems develop in adolescence or early adulthood, if systems can be put in place to minimise this, then that should pay off later on, as risk factors may be reduced.

I don't think anyone is advocating group hugs. Where an issue is identified it's about improving quality of life, signposting to appropriate expertise and working with best practice such as child protection guidelines and early intervention to promote recovery.

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no utopia. There will always be prejudice and stigma. Mental illness is very commonplace but it is not the norm. It is very very important that people realise this. Wanting to die, engaging in self harm, being incapable of making and sustaining relationships is not the norm.

smash wrote: »

Does it matter what way they're interpreting the phrase?

• Mental health issues are normal.
• Mental health issues are the norm.

Both of these statements are incorrect.

Nobody's talking about normal in the sense of a pat on the back or that it's good to have these issues. They are talking about part of the human experience and stigma reduction. For example, when you consider that farmers are an at risk group due to isolation and the pressures of the job, I think it's a good thing the Farming and Forestry forum has a sticky on depression (in the very real sense of that word, not the casual way). Nobody's saying maladaptive behaviours are good or should be normalised, but I think at times they are understandable. Sometimes people who have been raped describe mental health issues when they are giving a victim impact statement in court. It can be things like self-harm. It might be their only way - temporarily - of feeling normal (calm), to escape mental torment, albeit in a way that's not sustainable. If you listen closely to people discussing their personal experiences of mental health, quite a few describe a point of realisation where it clicks that it's not normal to feel a certain way and how this can be a real turning point.

So, if we are to think about replacing 'normal', then we might say things like:

It's normal common for a % of soldiers who have served in war to develop PTSD.
It is common for some people to experience relapse in their mental health.
It is common that alcohol plays a role in suicide attempts.

CorkFenian

PressRun wrote: »

I think it's probably worth noting that not everyone actually wants to talk about their mental health with anyone other than a professional, and someone not wanting to openly discuss it doesn't mean that that person feels like they can't. They just don't want to and they don't actually owe it to anyone to do so. We live in a culture of confession nowadays where we see people going on talk shows all the time to talk about their struggles with alcoholism or drug addiction, or writing tell-all books about themselves and their personal struggles, and we start to think that that sort of openness is what every person needs or wants. Not true.

I have a different perspective, for me its very easy to have gone public, it was the easiest thing I have done...I kept it silent for nearly 18 years....I dont know what every person needs or wants...Respectfully I don't believe you do either, just my opinion. This is all brand new relatively speaking....I have seen many true case stories of people who are being used as ambassadors for mental health charities who are struggling....Every story doesn't have to be told because it hasn't come to a conclusion yet (just my opinion) ....

But there are some great stories out there of people completely changing their lifes around....Successful lives, jobs etc and all of them who have gone through hell....Do we want to learn in the area of mental health? One of the best ways is to listen to these people and I don't include Bressie in that list if I am being honest......Thats just how I feel about it...

PressRun

CorkFenian wrote: »

I have a different perspective, for me its very easy to have gone public, it was the easiest thing I have done...I kept it silent for nearly 18 years....I dont know what every person needs or wants...Respectfully I don't believe you do either, just my opinion. This is all brand new relatively speaking....I have seen many true case stories of people who are being used as ambassadors for mental health charities who are struggling....Every story doesn't have to be told because it hasn't come to a conclusion yet (just my opinion) ....

But there are some great stories out there of people completely changing their lifes around....Successful lives, jobs etc and all of them who have gone through hell....Do we want to learn in the area of mental health? One of the best ways is to listen to these people and I don't include Bressie in that list if I am being honest......Thats just how I feel about it...

I wasn't claiming that I personally know what every individual needs or wants. The point I was making is that we can't assume that this culture of confession is what every individual needs or wants. Not everyone is going to want to talk about their mental health in an open way with everyone, whether they're a success story or not, and if they don't, it doesn't mean they're suppressing their feelings or that it's something to do with stigma. For some people, mental health is personal and something they want to deal with in private with a professional. That's a perfectly respectable choice that has nothing to do with stigma. People seem to enjoy pushing this 'need' for openness as a push-back against stigmatization, which is well-intentioned, but everyone's needs are different.

CorkFenian

PressRun wrote: »

I wasn't claiming that I personally know what every individual needs or wants. The point I was making is that we can't assume that this culture of confession is what every individual needs or wants. Not everyone is going to want to talk about their mental health in an open way with everyone, whether they're a success story or not, and if they don't, it doesn't mean they're suppressing their feelings or that it's something to do with stigma. For some people, mental health is personal and something they want to deal with in private with a professional. That's a perfectly respectable choice that has nothing to do with stigma. People seem to enjoy pushing this 'need' for openness as a push-back against stigmatization, which is well-intentioned, but everyone's needs are different.

I agree with the above more than your previous post. Maybe it was the original wording. From what I have seen its all about money. Im in a place now which I could only have dreamed of 4 years ago. I went from telling ex girlfriends I wanted to kill myself and planning self harm etc (while working continuously) to acomplete mood change with no big lows whatsoever (before with medication. I would get 3 lows approx a month)
I'm only mentioning above story to show a point. Mental health services are fcuked in Ireland if you don't spend money. Psychiatrists psychologists etc cost a lot to get the process done right. Try going the public route I couldn't afford to wait 12 months you get what you pay for in the Irish health system.
Stigma is nothing like physical injury in my opinion my parents generation will never get or understand mental health issues and even the 40 plus generation won't as they are also used to suffering in silence and being stoic.Just the way it is. If we are serious about tackling suicide in Ireland we need to tackle mental health. I really believe that.

*ive always been compliant with medication. Would never advocate otherwise.

PressRun

I definitely agree re waiting lists and the availability of services. There needs to be an overhaul in this area and more money put into it, but it could probably be argued that the health service in general needs an overhaul and more money (or at least have the money spent more wisely). And that's what should really be tackled first and foremost, imo. There's no use in media figures or what have you encouraging people to seek help for whatever mental health issues they might have if the services aren't there, aren't affordable or are woefully underfunded and overcrowded.

mickstupp

PressRun wrote: »

I wasn't claiming that I personally know what every individual needs or wants. The point I was making is that we can't assume that this culture of confession is what every individual needs or wants. Not everyone is going to want to talk about their mental health in an open way with everyone, whether they're a success story or not, and if they don't, it doesn't mean they're suppressing their feelings or that it's something to do with stigma. For some people, mental health is personal and something they want to deal with in private with a professional. That's a perfectly respectable choice that has nothing to do with stigma.

Neither does your point have anything to do with stigma. Because you're talking about those people with mental health issues who are not sharing or opening up due to not wanting to, or not feeling like they have to. As you say, nothing to do with stigma.

So what about all the people who want to open up, need to talk about their problems, and can't because of the stigma they feel? They're the ones the increased awareness is trying to help.

Your point is perfectly valid, I'm just not sure how it's relevant. Increasing awareness does absolutely nothing to or for the people who don't want to talk and won't. It's trying to do something for the ones who feel they cannot talk due to stigma. i.e. it's trying to reduce the stigma associated with having a mental illness. Whether or not that stigma affects a person has nothing to do with whether or not the stigma itself exists.

PressRun

mickstupp wrote: »

Neither does your point have anything to do with stigma. Because you're talking about those people with mental health issues who are not sharing or opening up due to not wanting to, or not feeling like they have to. As you say, nothing to do with stigma.

So what about all the people who want to open up, need to talk about their problems, and can't because of the stigma they feel? They're the ones the increased awareness is trying to help.

Your point is perfectly valid, I'm just not sure how it's relevant. Increasing awareness does absolutely nothing to or for the people who don't want to talk and won't. It's trying to do something for the ones who feel they cannot talk due to stigma. i.e. it's trying to reduce the stigma associated with having a mental illness. Whether or not that stigma affects a person has nothing to do with whether or not the stigma itself exists.

My point was about assuming that people who don't open up feel like they can't or are stigmatized, which is not always the case.

mickstupp

PressRun wrote: »

I definitely agree re waiting lists and the availability of services. There needs to be an overhaul in this area and more money put into it, but it could probably be argued that the health service in general needs an overhaul and more money (or at least have the money spent more wisely). And that's what should really be tackled first and foremost, imo. There's no use in media figures or what have you encouraging people to seek help for whatever mental health issues they might have if the services aren't there, aren't affordable or are woefully underfunded and overcrowded.

But surely if the powers that be seeing an increasing demand for certain sorts of services, in this case mental health services, then due to public awareness and public pressure they might (even if just to buy votes) start looking towards that area?

I think there's every use in anybody encouraging people to seek help for their mental health issues. How could it possibly be useless?

mickstupp

PressRun wrote: »

My point was about assuming that people who don't open up feel like they can't or are stigmatized, which is not always the case.

Ok... but you do admit then that there are people who don't open up because they feel stigmatised?

PressRun

mickstupp wrote: »

But surely if the powers that be seeing an increasing demand for certain sorts of services, in this case mental health services, then due to public awareness and public pressure they might (even if just to buy votes) start looking towards that area?

I think there's every use in anybody encouraging people to seek help for their mental health issues. How could it possibly be useless?

Increased demand for all kinds of services within the HSE doesn't seem to have done much to create an overhaul. Hospitals are still overcrowded, underfunded and understaffed.

I wasn't saying it's useless to seek help. I'm saying the services need to be there in the first instance in order for people to actually get the help they're seeking. I don't see how that's a controversial statement.

PressRun

mickstupp wrote: »

Ok... but you do admit then that there are people who don't open up because they feel stigmatised?

Of course. I never claimed otherwise.

mickstupp

PressRun wrote: »

I wasn't saying it's useless to seek help. I'm saying the services need to be there in the first instance in order for people to actually get the help they're seeking. I don't see how that's a controversial statement.

You very explicitly said "There's no use in media figures or what have you encouraging people to seek help for whatever mental health issues they might have if the services aren't there, aren't affordable or are woefully underfunded and overcrowded." What you're saying is if the services are there, then there's a point in seeking help. If they're not, there's no point, i.e. it's useless to seek help if the services aren't there. And they're not. So it's currently useless to seek help. You're being very clear. Unless the way you used those words is not how you intended them to be interpreted.

My point is under no circumstances (in my opinion) is it pointless to encourage a person to seek help, whether or not the services are there. Because simply attempting to make positive steps towards getting help, or to helping oneself, whether or not successful, whether or not facilities are in place, is a good thing. It is useful.

PressRun wrote: »

Of course. I never claimed otherwise.

Alright then. So why do you think there are people who are criticising the effort to raise awareness and reduce the stigma associated with mental illness? I can't understand it, personally. Because any reduction in stigma and any increase in awareness, is contributing to people who are suffering perhaps feeling a little more confident, getting towards confident enough to seek help. That's a good thing.

Why go out of one's way to point towards this group of people who are not affected by stigma, when those people have absolutely nothing to do with the point of raising awareness and reducing stigma? Doing that doesn't contribute, it detracts, by making a criticism which sounds convincing (because it's a valid point) but just happens to be irrelevant.

EDIT: What I mean in that last bit, from a very personal point of view, is this: If I'm sitting there desperately needing to talk to someone, needing to open up, but I'm afraid because of the stigma I see all around me... and there are people saying quite openly that either there's no stigma and it's all normal, or that there are plenty of people who just don't want to talk, who don't feel stigma... what happens then is me sitting there, I feel like my experience of stigma might actually just be in my head. So I don't talk. Because I don't feel I'll be taken seriously. Which increases the stigma I'm feeling.

Which I'm sure doesn't sound rational, but there's not a lot of rationality when you're suffering.

So what happens when you say 'not all mentally ill people', is that some end up feeling less able to reach out, because they feel more abnormal. On the other hand, if you simply raise awareness and try to let people know it's ok to talk and that they'll be taken seriously if they need and want help, there's nothing but good in that.

PressRun

mickstupp wrote: »

You very explicitly said "There's no use in media figures or what have you encouraging people to seek help for whatever mental health issues they might have if the services aren't there, aren't affordable or are woefully underfunded and overcrowded." What you're saying is if the services are there, then there's a point in seeking help. If they're not, there's no point, i.e. it's useless to seek help if the services aren't there. And they're not. So it's currently useless to seek help. You're being very clear. Unless the way you used those words is not how you intended them to be interpreted.

My point is under no circumstances (in my opinion) is it pointless to encourage a person to seek help, whether or not the services are there. Because simply attempting to make positive steps towards getting help, or to helping oneself, whether or not successful, whether or not facilities are in place, is a good thing. It is useful.


Alright then. So why do you think there are people who are criticising the effort to raise awareness and reduce the stigma associated with mental illness? I can't understand it, personally. Because any reduction in stigma and any increase in awareness, is contributing to people who are suffering perhaps feeling a little more confident, getting towards confident enough to seek help. That's a good thing.

Why go out of one's way to point towards this group of people who are not affected by stigma, when those people have absolutely nothing to do with the point of raising awareness and reducing stigma? Doing that doesn't contribute, it detracts, by making a criticism which sounds convincing (because it's a valid point) but just happens to be irrelevant.

I think you're taking what I'm saying a bit literally. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of asking for help. Many mentally ill people need thorough attention and treatment, and many need to be treated with urgency, in order to help them to successfully manage their illnesses. If patients are going to get the proper care and treatment they need to lead productive and healthy lives, there need to be adequate services to provide them with the means to do so. If a person with a mental illness makes moves towards getting help and find they're hitting a brick wall with waiting lists or affordability, that person is not going to get adequate treatment to really help them make meaningful steps towards managing their illness and leading a healthy life in the long term. The true solution to helping with mental health issues in the long-term is in making services better and easily accessible.

I don't know why people are criticizing the effort to raise awareness. I'm not one of them. I was simply pointing out that sometimes there's a tendency to act as though people who don't 'open up' are afraid to, which may not be true in every case, and that we shouldn't paint with broad strokes anyone and everyone who doesn't feel they want to talk about their mental health issues. Some people do, some people don't. Some people don't because they're embarrassed or ashamed, others don't because they just want to keep it private. Not every case needs to be put under the umbrella of 'stigmatization' was simply all I was saying. There needs to be a bit of nuance with how people discuss these issues. It's okay if you want to open up about, it's also okay if you don't. I find sometimes in this culture of 'tell all' that we forget to mention that it's actually okay if you don't feel like telling all too.

CorkFenian

If people really knew how messed up and what a freeforall the mental health system is, there .would be an outcry....This doesn't reach anyone because its relatively new. I put the following up on a site for mental health a few weeks back my plans for mental health..(They asked people for ways in which the mental health services in Ireland could be improved) .I have seen every side of it so I feel as entitled to an opinion on it as the next person

Would appreciate feedback or opinions on it?


1.Create a centralised body for mental health.Bring the numerous voluntary, semi state bodies etc for mental health which exist under one umbrella.
They all mean well (obviously)but there has to be one standard especially in a small country like Ireland.Branch out from this depending on category of mental illness.
Not one organisation just one central one which is connected up to any outlet used for whichever mental health occurrence in a "loosely" non-hierarchical structure.

2.Incorporate a model where within this framework patients are setup in programs which are linked from local GP to counsellor to psychiatrist to holistic therapy etc.From my own experience none of this exists presently.
Too many standalone actions exist which aren't linked to anything. Opinions and egos can unfortunately take precedence.(Unfortunately there are no definites within mental health when dealing with bipolar , schizophrenia etc)
This current model relies heavily on the patient being told what's best from numerous different health professionals and requires a lot of luck and can require a lot more time to get the process right than a centralised model would.From personal experience this can prove very difficult.

3.The government should speak to people who have been through the system at hospital , counselling level etc both for acute and more severe experiences and the health professionals involved. Do they really know what's actually happening on the ground?
I doubt it very much. The best mental health care costs money (which they have) and if you have access to it you just won't see it in the same way. Just my opinion.

4.Besides the above 3 points establish wellness and mindfulness courses for 4 years plus in schools.Normalise it as much as possible. Create a program which strongly highlights mental health success stories in the media. Which show people functioning just like everyone else and indeed beyond those levels.
Make them role models in the community.Normalisation is everything.Within 10 years a generation would be used to it and it would no longer be as "strange" or "different" for teenagers to speak about taking care of ones mental health.

5.To educate mainstream Ireland on the divide between biomedical treatment and psychotherapy.
At least to the point where they are aware that there is a choice to make and that one type of mental health treatment doesn't necessarily suit every patient.
By the way I'm not a psychologist nor a psychiatrist.This is my own opinion through my own first hand experience.

CorkFenian

CorkFenian wrote: »

If people really knew how messed up and what a freeforall the mental health system is, there .would be an outcry....This doesn't reach anyone because its relatively new. I put the following up on a site for mental health a few weeks back my plans for mental health..(They asked people for ways in which the mental health services in Ireland could be improved) .I have seen every side of it so I feel as entitled to an opinion on it as the next person

Would appreciate feedback or opinions on it?


1.Create a centralised body for mental health.Bring the numerous voluntary, semi state bodies etc for mental health which exist under one umbrella.
They all mean well (obviously)but there has to be one standard especially in a small country like Ireland.Branch out from this depending on category of mental illness.
Not one organisation just one central one which is connected up to any outlet used for whichever mental health occurrence in a "loosely" non-hierarchical structure.

2.Incorporate a model where within this framework patients are setup in programs which are linked from local GP to counsellor to psychiatrist to holistic therapy etc.From my own experience none of this exists presently.
Too many standalone actions exist which aren't linked to anything. Opinions and egos can unfortunately take precedence.(Unfortunately there are no definites within mental health when dealing with bipolar , schizophrenia etc)
This current model relies heavily on the patient being told what's best from numerous different health professionals and requires a lot of luck and can require a lot more time to get the process right than a centralised model would.From personal experience this can prove very difficult.

I agree that awareness of mental health should begin in primary school. The importance of mindfulness to help manage stressful times should be taught to children. Could you elaborate a little more on your first two points? Are you proposing one central organisation which is connected to smaller providers? So for example lets call it Irish Mental Health. Professionals would work under this umbrella and all be connected to each other in order to create a more streamlined service?
In your second point you mention opinions and egos. Are you referring to the health professionals? Schizophrenia requires a very different approach to generalised anxiety disorder. As an illness it is very definite with a very specific set of criteria one must meet in order to be diagnosed. It's treatment isn't going to be connected to the treatment of, for want of a better word, less serious illnesses.

CorkFenian

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree that awareness of mental health should begin in primary school. The importance of mindfulness to help manage stressful times should be taught to children. Could you elaborate a little more on your first two points? Are you proposing one central organisation which is connected to smaller providers? So for example lets call it Irish Mental Health. Professionals would work under this umbrella and all be connected to each other in order to create a more streamlined service?
In your second point you mention opinions and egos. Are you referring to the health professionals? Schizophrenia requires a very different approach to generalised anxiety disorder. As an illness it is very definite with a very specific set of criteria one must meet in order to be diagnosed. It's treatment isn't going to be connected to the treatment of, for want of a better word, less serious illnesses.

If I go to http://www.mentalhealthireland.ie/need-help-now/ there are several sites

The Samaritans
www.samaritans.ie
Free phone: 116 123
Text: 087 260 9090

Aware (Depression & Anxiety)
www.aware.ie
Tel: 1890 303 302

Console (Suicide helpline)
www.console.ie
1800 247 247

Pieta House (Suicide & Self-harm)
www.pieta.ie
Tel: 01 623 5606

Grow (Mental Health support and Recovery)
www.grow.ie
Tel: 1890 474 474

Bodywhys (Eating Disorders Associations of Ireland)
www.bodywhys.ie
1890 200 444

Irish Advocacy Network (Peer advocacy in mental health)
www.irishadvocacynetwork.com
Tel: 01 872 8684

IACP (Counselling & Psychotherapy)
www.iacp.ie
Tel: 01 230 3536

Shine (Supporting people effected by mental ill health)
www.shine.ie
Tel: 01 860 1620

Teenline Ireland Helpline – Listen when no one else will
www.teenireland.ie
1800 833 634 (7pm-10pm)
Text for help

Several more like headstrong, seechange,console....I know of approx 20 plus I dont have the full list to hand, can amend later

As I said all this do great work on their own either through voluntary or state sponsored donations. Not knocking them at all, (far from it they do great work) , just why do we need so many if it was being done the right way..We wouldn't would we.

I did my counselling in MyMind which is low cost and flexible. I'm just making the point that nothing is joined up information wise...I understand the confidentiality aspect but there must be a easier way to join gp, to pharmacists to holistic etc..Several of my pharmacist friends say this to me.

We have a Minister for Mental Health who is invisible in my opinion..What most people don't see is that if I get a diagnosis from psychiatrist A I can go to Psychiatrist B, C etc Why isn't this done? Because in a lot of cases the psychiatrist has been over the patient in hospital. That bond is so strong. My psychiatrist in hospital was someone I never rated that highly and who worked in public only. Meaning I would have to wait ages and queue to meet her in an arena which I wasn't comfortable in. So I never went back to her.

The power these guys have is quite scary...Its quite a long story I didn't go to any psychiatrist for roughly 12 years. As I was always working I was deemed to be ok...Behind the scenes I wasn't but I didn't fully appreciate it till I was really much better...Apologies it really is hard to fully explain here

Regarding point 2, everything is standalone, a psychiatrist will not rate mindfulness, meditation, reiki etc and for these are the reasons why I am having a medication reduction...You will hear a different opinion from everyone...

I have met some high profile psychiatrists, and it was all about them...I went to one (think of most high profile in Ireland) just to find out more and they didn't rate the 67 counselling sessions i had done prior to meeting them, the vitamin therapy, they had a very small appreciation for my reiki and meditation and that was that. I couldn't work with them. They had their own complete plan for me. I wasn't going to let them in. I wasn't going to see to them to feel better by that stage I was going to find out why I was feeling better....I felt he was very inconsistent after meeting him three times.

As I said its drawn out...The egos present in mental health are really disturbing...Everyone wants the book deal, everyone wants to be noticed in the media....The foundation of what it is meant to be isn't there....Its crumbling...For people like me who scrape through a tunnel and get to the other side and who now see it, that doesn't matter. Its the people with no other tools to use are the ones who are suffering and will continue to suffer unfortunately...

My current psychiatrist said I was doing the best thing by taking points from him that suit me. Ones i feel are there to take.. Regarding medication I take note of 100% of what he says. That's his sole expertise for me at the moment...There is a chance I could be medication free within 3-4 years. But I went to see psychiatrist a few weeks ago...€90 for 10 minutes.Once I'm good which I have been its a done deal..He's not there to work with or develop me..I have a counselor for that and there is no way for these guys to talk to each other...Unless you have serious money and get them together..(Even then they could be using the wrong treatment for you and could actively discourage other potential treatments)..Its really that simple...From what I have seen first hand anyway...

Tell me how

While the idea of a centralized coordinated approach to Mental Health is to be lauded. I would have no confidence in our ability as a country to deliver it.
The holder of the umbrella, if you will, would likely be the HSE. Does anyone feel that they could adequately co-ordinate such work?

If I were working in one of the many private or semi state type organizations such as those listed above, I would imagine that I would be very nervous of the thoughts of the bureaucracy that such a concept might bring.

I believe in government generally speaking but I would sooner pay the fees (which luckily I can afford to do) than wait for the government to put a comprehensive structure in place.

CorkFenian

Tell me how wrote: »

While the idea of a centralized coordinated approach to Mental Health is to be lauded. I would have no confidence in our ability as a country to deliver it.
The holder of the umbrella, if you will, would likely be the HSE. Does anyone feel that they could adequately co-ordinate such work?

If I were working in one of the many private or semi state type organizations such as those listed above, I would imagine that I would be very nervous of the thoughts of the bureaucracy that such a concept might bring.

I believe in government generally speaking but I would sooner pay the fees (which luckily I can afford to do) than wait for the government to put a comprehensive structure in place.

I agree 100% with you. For it to be successful all the things you mention would be a problem and also someones place in the organisation. What they have currently isn't working? Everything exists in that one organisation. Some of these are fundamentally biomedical , meaning they promote medication only. Watch this space in next 10 years. Proper peer recovery will be huge in Ireland...It really suits a small country like ourselves..

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/20/parachute-therapy-psychosis-new-york-uk

In the meantime more innocent people will be attacked and maimed by people who have "gone through" the public system in Dublin City centre....I have noticed at least 4-5 cases a year in the papers the past few years...Its from casual observance but it definitely is there...In some cases they will be lucky to get counselling, others they will be told be read a therapy book (My counselor told me of such a story)

People don't really expect anything of those with serious mental illness..Going by Awares statistics 1 in 3 people diagnosed with bipolar will work. More than half will try or make an attempt on their own life....If the person expects nothing, then assertiveness is non existent....Everything follows that they are forgotten....As I said I have always worked and don't feel I have bipolar symptoms anymore how many mainstream charities in Ireland say this is possible? Yet my psychiatrist is biomedical and says thats the case. I am 40 now if I had known this was possible 10 years ago it would have been brilliant....I felt I was handed a sentence I could never shake off....Now I know thats not the case Through pure luck and perseverance and a lot of pain unfortunately for me and for people close to me.

riclad

I think its good hes talking about it,
but i feel he is constantly appearing on tv,doing interview,s ,
so you need something to talk about apart from music.
Does he have a viable music career at the moment ?
Certain issues come up contantly on talk show,s ,again and again .
teen bullying, gambling ,married people having affairs ,
yes many people get depressed , and have mental problems .
We have a small amount of semi famous people in ireland ,
if you had a few hit records years ago ,
You,ll get constant requests for interview,s .
even better if you had a problem you can talk about .
Radio and tv presenter,s need people to interview ,
in between items about gardening,cookery, current affairs .
we need more people talking about getting slightly depressed and then
going to doctor and getting prescribed drug x,

oh by the way drug x is like heroin ,its totally addictive ,
did i not Tell you .
ah well thats too bad.
now you are depressed about being addicted to drug x.

Most big stars like beyonce , adele don,t usually do irish talk shows ,
so its a case of ring up so and so ,
i have a 15 minute slot on the morning program to fill .

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The importance of mindfulness to help manage stressful times should be taught to children.

Really?

Would they not be better off learning about some proper therapy like CBT, rather than some fad plucked from Eastern philosophy in recent years and packaged and sold by "Life Coaches" as some quick fix for Westerners? I don't think I want my child to be part of the McMindfulness craze, no more than I want them to learn about Feng Shui to achieve inner peace...

Morany

Deleted User wrote: »

Really?

Would they not be better off learning about some proper therapy like CBT, rather than some fad plucked from Eastern philosophy in recent years and packaged and sold by "Life Coaches" as some quick fix for Westerners? I don't think I want my child to be part of the McMindfulness craze, no more than I want them to learn about Feng Shui to achieve inner peace...

Not to mention that mindfulness has been coming under scrutiny because it seems to exacerbate anxiety issues for some people. Maybe these people are in a minority but it at least tells me that more research needs to be done on the subject of mindfulness and its effectiveness before it is adopted and taught to children. And this highlights a problem I have with Niall Breslin. (refuse to call him by that stupid nickname ) He's a layperson so how qualified is he to be giving talks on mental health to school children? It's good for him to talk about his mental health problems but having them yourself doesn't necessarily make you qualified to advise others on how to deal with them.

I can't post links but I read an interesting article in the Guardian at the weekend about how mindfulness was quite damaging to some. It was called 'Is mindfulness making us ill?'

www (dot) theguardian (dot) com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/23/is-mindfulness-making-us-ill

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

Really?

Would they not be better off learning about some proper therapy like CBT, rather than some fad plucked from Eastern philosophy in recent years and packaged and sold by "Life Coaches" as some quick fix for Westerners? I don't think I want my child to be part of the McMindfulness craze, no more than I want them to learn about Feng Shui to achieve inner peace...

Well you're open minded about it! Seems to work for some people but there are other tips, not quite mindfulness, that are helpful to clear minds and help mental health, or things you might be able to take from it.

Nobody will find out if we just dismiss it as guru type nonsense. Everybody is different, including your children.

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

Well you're open minded about it! Seems to work for some people but there are other tips, not quite mindfulness, that are helpful to clear minds and help mental health, or things you might be able to take from it.

Nobody will find out if we just dismiss it as guru type nonsense. Everybody is different, including your children.

Oh I'm not closed minded about mindfulness and any other slice of Eastern (or any) philosophy people wish to grab and apply as a band aid in their lives. Good luck to them, some draw benefit from it. Pray to Jesus, meditate, try yoga, breathe slowly in a quiet room, stick a gold fish bowl in the correct corner of the room, whatever works for you. But I don't want any if it force fed to my child as "education".

Graces7

Some of the posts have me almost in tears. Twice in the last few years I have found myself talking to men who were totally at sea having been discharged from mental hospitals clearly not fit. One had been sent to a B and B in a strange town on a Friday afternoon... He was shaking and terrified. The other was even worse; wanted the money to get back to hospital. Lifted his shirt to show me his whole chest lined with scars; a serious "cutter".. He was in a terrible state. Threatened to start cutting again..I was trading there and had seen him be ejected from the garda station opposite. Well dressed, clean, courteous man. I went over and asked again. Some of what transpired I would rather not tell but they thought he was drunk and acting up. They did take him in and at least he was off the street that night albeit in a police cell. NB I got in trouble for intervening but no regrets... I have not been personally involved with the mental health system here. Was for 30 years in the Uk on a sheer misdiagnosis and wonder how often this still happens? Symptoms that have no immediately clear diagnosis thus must be mental? Choice re accessing help has to be personal.

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I'm not closed minded about mindfulness and any other slice of Eastern (or any) philosophy people wish to grab and apply as a band aid in their lives. Good luck to them, some draw benefit from it. Pray to Jesus, meditate, try yoga, breathe slowly in a quiet room, stick a gold fish bowl in the correct corner of the room, whatever works for you. But I don't want any if it force fed to my child as "education".

As a poster said yesterday, I think great advice is take what resonates and works for you.

I'd agree it shouldn't be force fed but if people are made aware that this really helps some people, so be it.

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

As a poster said yesterday, I think great advice is take what resonates and works for you.

I'd agree it shouldn't be force fed but if people are made aware that this really helps some people, so be it.

Oh true.

But again, it's like turning to the Bible. Has worked for millions down through the ages, have seen people draw remarkable strength from it in their darkest times, have seen people pray their way through suffering and grief and derive great comfort.

But if someone said it should be taught as a way of combatting stress...just no for me.

CorkFenian

Morany wrote: »

Not to mention that mindfulness has been coming under scrutiny because it seems to exacerbate anxiety issues for some people. Maybe these people are in a minority but it at least tells me that more research needs to be done on the subject of mindfulness and its effectiveness before it is adopted and taught to children. And this highlights a problem I have with Niall Breslin. (refuse to call him by that stupid nickname ) He's a layperson so how qualified is he to be giving talks on mental health to school children? It's good for him to talk about his mental health problems but having them yourself doesn't necessarily make you qualified to advise others on how to deal with them.

I can't post links but I read an interesting article in the Guardian at the weekend about how mindfulness was quite damaging to some. It was called 'Is mindfulness making us ill?'

www (dot) theguardian (dot) com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/23/is-mindfulness-making-us-ill

I have seen and read the article. Thats kind of the point I was making. To start mindfulness as early as possible. They are kids. They have no real issues to deal with.(Unless anxiety issues of those around them) The issues are there irrespective of whats done for adults yeah? Its better to face them than to band aid up the experience....The article gives cases back 20 years ago....You could say numerous things about what caused their relapse...Personally I don't buy the criticism

Regarding mental health professionals, you would be amazed at the amount they cannot and just don't know....The best advice I heard lately from my psychiatrist was to accept that no advice is definite when it comes to mental health..Nothing is 100% this is why peer recovery will be so strong....You won't be trying to be like the psychologist or psychiatrist you'll be trying to be like people like myself or others who have gone through it. In fairness to Bressie I think he has only been given talks to teenagers where there is a big difference from younger kids. Also this is brand new, an earlier poster got it right when he said there was nothing there before...Something had to happen as imperfect as it is....

CorkFenian

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I'm not closed minded about mindfulness and any other slice of Eastern (or any) philosophy people wish to grab and apply as a band aid in their lives. Good luck to them, some draw benefit from it. Pray to Jesus, meditate, try yoga, breathe slowly in a quiet room, stick a gold fish bowl in the correct corner of the room, whatever works for you. But I don't want any if it force fed to my child as "education".

What way do you think kids should be educated regarding mental health?

For me mindfulness and breathing exercises is a no brainer personally....Once its customised for them....Controlled breathing\meditation is great for anyone and has been used for over 3,000 years.....We should be copying the countries which do this...(Or at very least investigating it, it takes so long to change anything in this small country of ours...Its a big disadvantage)

I would be open to anything we have a huge drinking\suicide epidemic in Ireland and anything to help prevent any of that is worthwhile in my opinion...

Graces7

CorkFenian wrote: »

I have seen and read the article. Thats kind of the point I was making. To start mindfulness as early as possible. They are kids. They have no real issues to deal with.(Unless anxiety issues of those around them) The issues are there irrespective of whats done for adults yeah? Its better to face them than to band aid up the experience....The article gives cases back 20 years ago....You could say numerous things about what caused their relapse...Personally I don't buy the criticism

Regarding mental health professionals, you would be amazed at the amount they cannot and just don't know....The best advice I heard lately from my psychiatrist was to accept that no advice is definite when it comes to mental health..Nothing is 100% this is why peer recovery will be so strong....You won't be trying to be like the psychologist or psychiatrist you'll be trying to be like people like myself or others who have gone through it. In fairness to Bressie I think he has only been given talks to teenagers where there is a big difference from younger kids. Also this is brand new, an earlier poster got it right when he said there was nothing there before...Something had to happen as imperfect as it is....

No I wouldn't! Believe me. We do health care professionals no favours by thinking they know everything. Each of us can help others through that terrible darkness. Maybe because of my own terrible suffering and all I saw and experienced in those desert years I am more aware and not afraid, And it is often fear that deters people. Just giving them an opening to talk is a liberation. If they want. If not fine. And

CorkFenian

CorkFenian wrote: »

What way do you think kids should be educated regarding mental health?

For me mindfulness and breathing exercises is a no brainer personally....Once its customised for them....Controlled breathing\meditation is great for anyone and has been used for over 3,000 years.....We should be copying the countries which do this...(Or at very least investigating it, it takes so long to change anything in this small country of ours...Its a big disadvantage)

I would be open to anything we have a huge drinking\suicide epidemic in Ireland and anything to help prevent any of that is worthwhile in my opinion...

Suicide rates are higher amongst Buddhists than Christians and much higher than Muslims, and also much higher in Eastern countries such as Japan than countries like the USA.

Maybe we should tell them to keep the breathing and meditation stuff and send them a heap of Bibles and access to MTV?

A Shopkeeper

I've wondered about Bressie and this new found ambassador role he has given himself.

I'm cynical at the best of times, but there's just something off with this. As someone previously said, everyone seems to have mental health issues now. While I'd hate to take away from those that are genuinely affected, life is hard, cruel and difficult for everyone at periods in your life. Nobody is 'up' 24/7. Depression is a phrase now thrown in for all sorts.

The thing about Bressie is that here we have a guy who very clearly loves the spotlight being on him and craves it at the same time. If I can be nice about his music career, it was god awful. He achieved nothing. He then went on to judge other people's music ability simply because, in my opinion, he's good looking.

A few years ago when the country was sea gull mad one summer, the guy was all over social media detailing how one attacked him. On his own, with no human witnesses. Convenient timing to get back in the papers if have a following to get your story out there.

I am glad to see mental health issues being addressed. Fair play to him for taking on the role. But realistically, sure what else would he be doing with his day. He really has no future for anything other than his voice and his face. I guess trying to raise awareness for mental health is good. It's a year round issue. Unlike the Summer sea gulls.

Shurimgreat

How serious was his mental health difficulties? Was he ever on medication? In hospital? Was it mild or extreme? He seems to have gotten over it quite well. Perhaps it was just the occasional panic attack, which to be fair is not at the more extreme end of mental illness.

mickstupp

A Shopkeeper wrote: »

I've wondered about Bressie and this new found ambassador role he has given himself.

I'm cynical at the best of times, but there's just something off with this. As someone previously said, everyone seems to have mental health issues now. While I'd hate to take away from those that are genuinely affected, life is hard, cruel and difficult for everyone at periods in your life. Nobody is 'up' 24/7. Depression is a phrase now thrown in for all sorts.

The thing about Bressie is that here we have a guy who very clearly loves the spotlight being on him and craves it at the same time. If I can be nice about his music career, it was god awful. He achieved nothing. He then went on to judge other people's music ability simply because, in my opinion, he's good looking.

A few years ago when the country was sea gull mad one summer, the guy was all over social media detailing how one attacked him. On his own, with no human witnesses. Convenient timing to get back in the papers if have a following to get your story out there.

I am glad to see mental health issues being addressed. Fair play to him for taking on the role. But realistically, sure what else would he be doing with his day. He really has no future for anything other than his voice and his face. I guess trying to raise awareness for mental health is good. It's a year round issue. Unlike the Summer sea gulls.

You're not really though. This is the kind of post that enrages me. You're dismissing the message because you question the messenger and his motivation. It's utterly illogical and cynical and negative in every way.

There's just something off with this? Really? I feel like there's something off with you, and with the people who claim to give a damn and then denigrate whoever is trying to bring light to difficult issues. Whatever his motivation is, the fact that the message is getting out is NOTHING BUT GOOD.

But your attitude, and the attitude of those like you, is damaging the message. You're putting a negative spin on the whole thing. And it's an attitude that causes vulnerable people to look at your words and feel like they'll be ridiculed for reaching out for the help they need, because they see these attitudes and think people won't take them seriously. They'll see a bunch of negative people treating their opinions of this guy more importantly than the message he's trying to put out there. Character assassination, and doubting the words of people with problems. That's what vulnerable people will see. And if you're a drug addict with depression issues, maybe suicidal thoughts, who wants to reach out for help... but you then see people denigrating those who come out with private difficulties, theres a chance it'll put you off from reaching out for the help you desperately need. So you'll stay hidden, and isolated, afraid to uncover yourself for fear of having your character and motivation questioned in any way.

In my opinion, you and those like you are literally doing damage to vulnerable people. This guy's motivations are utterly irrelevant. The message is the important part, not the bloody messenger.

mickstupp

Shurimgreat wrote: »

How serious was his mental health difficulties? Was he ever on medication? In hospital? Was it mild or extreme? He seems to have gotten over it quite well. Perhaps it was just the occasional panic attack, which to be fair is not at the more extreme end of mental illness.

Well if you're going to pretend to be fair about things... when you're asking about his medication, his difficulties, the severity of his symptoms etc. could you tell me exactly what relevance any of that has to him trying to raise awareness and help people?

Hint: None of it has any relevance at all.

And what's more, no-one knows what it's like in another person's head. To be fair.

mynameis905

CorkFenian wrote: »

What way do you think kids should be educated regarding mental health?

For me mindfulness and breathing exercises is a no brainer personally....Once its customised for them....Controlled breathing\meditation is great for anyone and has been used for over 3,000 years.....We should be copying the countries which do this...(Or at very least investigating it, it takes so long to change anything in this small country of ours...Its a big disadvantage)

I would be open to anything we have a huge drinking\suicide epidemic in Ireland and anything to help prevent any of that is worthwhile in my opinion...

Suicide rates in Ireland are not really higher than the average, nor is our alcohol consumption. We do not have an 'epidemic' of either.

Unfortunately, fads like mindfulness and breathing exercises et al will do precious little when you find yourself staring down the black dog. There may be something to be said for them as ancillary supports but major depressive disorder is as unlikely to be resolved by mindfulness as terminal cancer is by a few hail marys and a hug.

Studies have shown time and time again that the best approach in treating depression is with anti-depressant medication and cognitive behavioral therapy. What people seem to have trouble grasping is that psychiatric meds are not 'happy pills' nor is taking them a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination. They will restore you to a normal, euthymic mood at best and probably cause you at least one or two unpleasant side effects. They offer an imperfect solution to an enormously challenging problem but still remain the best thing on offer to those of us afflicted with depression.

If we were going to do something to truly benefit the next generation it would be to provide children with CBT in schools. Everyone suffers from cognitive distortions like black and white thinking/catastrophization/splitting and the like. We would be doing the next generation a huge favour if we gave them the tools to overcome this before they venture out into the world on their own.

One eyed Jack

mynameis905 wrote: »

If we were going to do something to truly benefit the next generation it would be to provide children with CBT in schools. Everyone suffers from cognitive distortions like black and white thinking/catastrophization/splitting and the like. We would be doing the next generation a huge favour if we gave them the tools to overcome this before they venture out into the world on their own.

There's a programme already being rolled out in Irish Primary Schools to promote good mental health and well-being in children:


WELL BEING IN PRIMARY SCHOOLS - Guidelines for mental health promotion

mynameis905

mynameis905 wrote: »

Unfortunately, fads like mindfulness and breathing exercises et al will do precious little when you find yourself staring down the black dog. There may be something to be said for them as ancillary supports but major depressive disorder is as unlikely to be resolved by mindfulness as terminal cancer is by a few hail marys and a hug.

Studies have shown time and time again that the best approach in treating depression is with anti-depressant medication and cognitive behavioral therapy..

It's actually almost worrying that someone would suggest teaching mindfulness to kids to address suicide, and would not even acknowledge CBT. It shows how much the fad has gripped. Bloody life coaches peddling gibberish to people looking to pay money for a quick fix.

mickstupp wrote: »

You're not really though. This is the kind of post that enrages me...

Woah there!

Posts on an anonymous forum shouldn't "enrage" you. Maybe mindfulness would help that reaction?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Woah there!

Posts on an anonymous forum shouldn't "enrage" you. Maybe mindfulness would help that reaction?

There are some points I wish to make regarding the whole subject of mindfulness but they will have to wait until I'm more awake.

For now I would like to say that there is not a thing wrong with holding different views and opinions but what isn't so good Conor is being disparaging towards those who do.

Graces7

mickstupp wrote: »

No it's not. Nor has it ever been. At least not in this country. You can go ahead and believe the opposite if you like, but you're not right. Besides my own experiences and any anecdotes anyone with a mental illness would care to share, the simple fact that we have high profile people trying to raise awareness and get people talking about mental illness is perfectly adequate proof that the ability to talk about it without stigma is not normal.

Not entirely sure of the validity of the term " stigma". A lot of negative or hostile reaction is simply fear in those responding. This is something I wrote about a lot in past years. When we see someone with eg a broken leg, or pneumonia, we feel safe and know the answer. When we are faced with someone too depressed to talk, or behaving " badly"? Then value judgements come in. It IS different and folk are scared. I would be had it not been for my desert years of wrong diagnosis etc. Now I can be around for those in danger and peril and the lost ones. Just be there and unafraid. But I am unusual in that. I was thinking about this last night so thank you! I have M.E and for years was told it was depression, agoraphobia, then just plain being difficult. At present I am very unwell and quite honestly would not blame anyone for thinking it was depression.. Last evening had to rest hours before I could wash dishes..It is a deep, total exhaustion.. wipe out... But I KNOW it is M.E and I can cope. When they were insisting it was mental illness it was terrifying..People with depression cannot see that and often we just have to hold them and love them and accept for them. It is a bewildering and frightening situation and a calm place helps greatly. Personally I do not like the automatic use of meds but that is my take on it. And I do not blame anyone for being scared of mental illness frankly.

CorkFenian

mynameis905 wrote: »

Suicide rates in Ireland are not really higher than the average, nor is our alcohol consumption. We do not have an 'epidemic' of either.

Unfortunately, fads like mindfulness and breathing exercises et al will do precious little when you find yourself staring down the black dog. There may be something to be said for them as ancillary supports but major depressive disorder is as unlikely to be resolved by mindfulness as terminal cancer is by a few hail marys and a hug.

Studies have shown time and time again that the best approach in treating depression is with anti-depressant medication and cognitive behavioral therapy. What people seem to have trouble grasping is that psychiatric meds are not 'happy pills' nor is taking them a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination. They will restore you to a normal, euthymic mood at best and probably cause you at least one or two unpleasant side effects. They offer an imperfect solution to an enormously challenging problem but still remain the best thing on offer to those of us afflicted with depression.

If we were going to do something to truly benefit the next generation it would be to provide children with CBT in schools. Everyone suffers from cognitive distortions like black and white thinking/catastrophization/splitting and the like. We would be doing the next generation a huge favour if we gave them the tools to overcome this before they venture out into the world on their own.

I would respectfully disagree with the majority of what you're saying there bar CBT which I have done myself and spoke of positively already. What have you done yourself in relation to CBT etc ?

So you're saying we don't drink too much and that we don't have a massive suicide problem in Ireland.Hmmmm what would it take for it to become a problem for you?

CBT would be a lot more expensive to start with, we could start with mindfulness in your mind it's the same as saying a few Hail Marys I would be amazed if you went to more than one session. Maybe you just had a bad experience with it. Because it's not related to that kind of blind faith at all.

Regarding medication I am compliant etc to say it's the still the best way is not wholly untrue they do offer a good reprieve for a lot of people. The problem is that they are often seen as the only solution and in my opinion people solely using them will never realise their full potential.

Do you work as a health professional or have you been seriously affected by depression?

Bring in CBT as well only mentioning mindfulness as it's much more inexpensive to do and can be done at any time with kids who will embrace it a bit more at 4 or 5.

Unfortunately in Ireland we have a lot of psychologists with egos and little life experience of how it actually feels to be depressed.

BTW breathing exercises\meditation are no fad. Even a bog standard GP would agree that they are good for you.

CorkFenian

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There's a programme already being rolled out in Irish Primary Schools to promote good mental health and well-being in children:


WELL BEING IN PRIMARY SCHOOLS - Guidelines for mental health promotion

So what's your opinion on it? I read through it.It looks very generic at the read through and like its lifted off a wellness for college program at first glance nothing specific there. Open to correction here (reading on iPhone) ðŸ˜႒

Mindfulness comes in for a lot of criticism and is often seen as some crazy woo right up there with looking to the angels for help. What it is is the simple awareness of each moment and the capacity to be with ourselves. Experiencing it without judgement of ourselves only kindness. Anyone who struggles with their mental health will tell you that their inner voice is a harsh and unrelenting critic so learning to be kinder is important.

Mindfulness really took off in the West thanks to a man named Jon Kabat-Zinn. He developed what's called a mindfulness based stress reduction program. This uses a combination of mindfulness meditation, yoga, and body awareness. More and more research is being carried out on the efficacy of mindfulness. It does not cure but it can help and when used alongside other methods such as psychotherapy, CBT, etc. It can go along way to easing the pressure and mental strain that many find themselves under. Davis & Hayes (2012) writing in The American Psychological Association list a number of different benefits which are supported by empirical evidence. These are;
Reduced rumination
Stress reduction
Boosts to working memory
Focus
Less emotional reactivity
More cognitive flexibility
Relationship satisfaction

If we take the first benefit, reduced rumination, the authors cite the work of Chambers etc al. (2008) who found that a group of novice meditators experienced a reduction in their symptoms of depression and ruminated less.
Looking at stress reduction a meta-analysis of 39 studies that looked at the effectiveness of MBSR and MBCT found that these types of therapies "may be useful in altering affective and cognitive processes that underlie multiple clinical issues" (Davis & Hayes, 2012)

I could go on and on. In 2010 Farb et al measured neural activity in those who had watched a sad film. Against the control group those who had practised mindfulness based exercises had less neural reactivity and their neural responses were very different compared to what they displayed prior to engaging in mindfulness.

There will always be detractors. There will always be methods which work for some and not for others. That's a great thing because it highlights our individuality. This is an interesting thread where we can see the power beliefs and opinions around mental health have over us.

mickstupp

^Makes me feel much worse. Makes my friend feel much calmer and better.

Each to their own. Whatever works for you is good. So if good mental health practices were to be taught in schools, I'd hope there were a wide range of them being explored, not just one or two.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

More and more research is being carried out on the efficacy of mindfulness. It does not cure but it can help and when used alongside other methods such as psychotherapy, CBT, etc. It can go along way to easing the pressure and mental strain that many find themselves under...

So we agree that the suggestion that "mindfulness should be taught to kids to deal with suicide" is pretty staggering, bearing in mind he did not suggest one other subject. As you say, used with proper therapy it can ease pressure...which I would accept, and put it with the "thousands of things that can relieve pressure but should not be taught, like the benefit of prayer, laughter, a long walk, a good book etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc."

mynameis905

CorkFenian wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree with the majority of what you're saying there bar CBT which I have done myself and spoke of positively already. What have you done yourself in relation to CBT etc ?

I did CBT for about 18 months a few years ago.

CorkFenian wrote: »

So you're saying we don't drink too much and that we don't have a massive suicide problem in Ireland.Hmmmm what would it take for it to become a problem for you?

Not really, no. You'll hear people talking about Ireland having a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol but the statistics just don't back it up. Same goes for suicide. There is no epidemic, save for the hysteria and nonsense that one finds in some areas of the media.

CorkFenian wrote: »

CBT would be a lot more expensive to start with

I can't see how it would be more expensive. Even if that were the case, CBT can also be delivered by computer without the need for a psychologist.

CorkFenian wrote: »

we could start with mindfulness in your mind it's the same as saying a few Hail Marys I would be amazed if you went to more than one session. Maybe you just had a bad experience with it. Because it's not related to that kind of blind faith at all.

I've never attended a mindfulness session nor had a bad experience with it.

CorkFenian wrote: »

Regarding medication I am compliant etc to say it's the still the best way is not wholly untrue they do offer a good reprieve for a lot of people. The problem is that they are often seen as the only solution and in my opinion people solely using them will never realise their full potential.

People using anti-depressants won't reach their full potential? What about asthmatics on inhalers? Diabetics on insulin? Are they also not reaching their 'full potential'? I don't think you really understand what is to have depression.

CorkFenian wrote: »

Do you work as a health professional or have you been seriously affected by depression?

No and yes.

CorkFenian wrote: »

Unfortunately in Ireland we have a lot of psychologists with egos and little life experience of how it actually feels to be depressed.

More nonsense. What exactly do you have to back this up besides your own anecdotal experiences?

Graces7

quoted from Corkfenians post and the previous posters reply..".People using anti-depressants won't reach their full potential? What about asthmatics on inhalers? Diabetics on insulin? Are they also not reaching their 'full potential'? I don't think you really understand what is to have depression." I agree totally with Corkfenian and yes I have suffered depression
There is a huge difference between a physical remedy for a physical deficiency or ailment and drugs that alter and affect the brain and thought processes and emotions. If you dumb down feelings even or especially depression then you preclude growth and the ability to learn and cope , the latter is real healing. I was on a range of anti depressants for many years but only started to learn and grow when I ditched them. As one friend said, " You have your mind back" . I still get terrible " downs" but know how to cope with them now myself. We can all learn. First aid in a crisis is a place for psych drugs; long term usage is a different matter. I was told over and again that i would never ever manage without psych drugs...been two decades now and here I am! Even now watching my codeine consumption and aware of the dangers. One problem with depression is that you feel degraded and insufficient and are very suggestible and desperate. Finding ways to cope with that is a real progress. A learning and a growth. Wondering how you can compare asthma and diabetes with depression.

Richard Hillman

Another bizarre story about him is that he claimed to have broken his own arm due to anxiety when he was a teenager. He only "discovered" that he had anxiety issues a couple of years ago when he was on some TV programme.

There are so many inconsistencies to his numerous stories.

Niall Bressie Breslin is narcissistic, he'll probably admit that himself. And we can assume that he has been glued to this thread over the last week. It would be great if he could log-on to clear up all of the suspicions about himself.

riclad

When you go on tv ,you need a subject to talk about,drugs problem,affairs, etc
So he choose to talk about mental issues ,
i suppose it would look bad to go on tv, to talk about no one seems to buy my music anymore .
Or i,m have no new music to talk about .
He is probably the most famous person that talks about mental issues in ireland at the
moment .
People like bono , who is mega rich and busy making music ,or touring
do not have time to be going on tv3 talk shows every week .

my friend

Follow the money