HSE attitude

sillysmiles

I find this really quite sad but indicative of how dog unfriendly and how incapable of independent thought and personal responsibility we are becoming as a nation.
http://www.newstalk.com/This-Dublin-pub-has-been-told-to-turn-away-its-fourlegged-regulars

I was in the UK last year and it was lovely to see a well behaved dog in a pub. I love the idea of going for a walk with the dog, stopping for lunch and a pint and continuing on your walk but I don't know of anywhere that it is possible to do that locally.

hardCopy

That sucks. I wouldn't trust my own dog to behave in a crowded pub but have seen plenty of other dogs behave themselves abroad and at outside tables. Would love to be able to take him for a pint when he matures a bit.

oppenheimer1

sillysmiles wrote: »

I find this really quite sad but indicative of how dog unfriendly and how incapable of independent thought and personal responsibility we are becoming as a nation.
http://www.newstalk.com/This-Dublin-pub-has-been-told-to-turn-away-its-fourlegged-regulars

I was in the UK last year and it was lovely to see a well behaved dog in a pub. I love the idea of going for a walk with the dog, stopping for lunch and a pint and continuing on your walk but I don't know of anywhere that it is possible to do that locally.

This is absolutely the right thing. I love dogs but they don't belong in pubs or restaurants or public transport ( guide dogs aside).

mel.b

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

This is absolutely the right thing. I love dogs but they don't belong in pubs or restaurants or public transport ( guide dogs aside).

I disagree. One of the things i love about visiting places like Germany is that people can take their dogs everywhere. We saw them in resturants, hotels, trains and ferries. Its such a friendly inclusive attitude and maybe if were allowed to do it here, dogs would be more part of the family rather than being left in backyards.

L1011

I'm entirely in agreement with the HSE here. As well behaved as anyones dogs can be, they are an unquantifiable health risk. I wouldn't frequent a pub or restaurant that allowed dogs in anyway so it wouldn't directly impact on me if one did, but the health concerns are still there.

SillyMangoX

They wouldn't want to visit my local so! The owner regularly brings her German Shepard pup for socialisation, and we even have one dog that will usually come down with his owner, but when the owner isn't drinking for November, the dog still comes down on his own to chill out! (And get his bag of taytos :pac: )

tk123

L1011 wrote: »

I'm entirely in agreement with the HSE here. As well behaved as anyones dogs can be, they are an unquantifiable health risk. I wouldn't frequent a pub or restaurant that allowed dogs in anyway so it wouldn't directly impact on me if one did, but the health concerns are still there.

Every pub/restaurant would allow guide/service dogs who are no more hygienic than other dogs. I pulled one out of a putrid lake the other day helping someone who then marched it into a coffee shop into the same park(!):eek:

muddypaws

L1011 wrote: »

I'm entirely in agreement with the HSE here. As well behaved as anyones dogs can be, they are an unquantifiable health risk. I wouldn't frequent a pub or restaurant that allowed dogs in anyway so it wouldn't directly impact on me if one did, but the health concerns are still there.

I'm not looking for an argument, but could you please tell me what 'unquantifiable health risk' a dog would pose in a pub.

All pubs and restaurants have to allow guide dogs/assistance dogs in by law, so I guess you never go out?

oppenheimer1

muddypaws wrote: »

I'm not looking for an argument, but could you please tell me what 'unquantifiable health risk' a dog would pose in a pub.

All pubs and restaurants have to allow guide dogs/assistance dogs in by law, so I guess you never go out?

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

VonVix

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

Have you not seen some of the people in pubs??? :eek:

muddypaws

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

If you're going to answer on behalf of another poster - can you please tell me what 'unquantifiable health risk' dogs pose in pubs.

tk123

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

What pubs and/or restaurants have you experienced this in out of interest?

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

I travel all over Ireland with my dogs. Thet regularly go into all sorts of places with us. They stay in hotels in the room with us. My dogs are certainly not smelly & filthy. So what exactly is your experience? I'm thinking you have very little experience.

DBB

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They are dirty, and in my experience the kind of people who insist on talking their dogs into pubs and restaurants don't look after their dogs properly. They love them but they're generally smelly and filthy.

My experience has been the polar opposite, ie people who bring their dogs places with them look after them tremendously well and keep them clean... At least as clean as any guide dog.

So. What can we conclude from that?

gctest50

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

This is absolutely the right thing. I love dogs but they don't belong in pubs or restaurants or public transport ( guide dogs aside).

how bout cats then ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-34871580

intheclouds

Are they going to prevent Therapy Dogs visiting nursing homes and hospitals too?

joxer1988

He probably sneaks out with his doggy mates and goes knacker drinking behind your back so I hope you don't think you'll be taking him for his first pint!

tara83

Lovely to see well behaved animals in a pub. I'd welcome them over a lot of the snot covered kids leaving chewed up food and sticky mess everywhereðŸ˜႒

One of the things I like about Europe is their sensible attitude to 1animals and 2 Hygiene

Cows Go µ

DBB wrote: »

My experience has been the polar opposite, ie people who bring their dogs places with them look after them tremendously well and keep them clean... At least as clean as any guide dog.

So. What can we conclude from that?

Me too, any time I have seen dogs in pubs etc they have always been great. It's generally people who treat them like one of the family who bring them along.

It's something my parents get to do when they go abroad with their dogs but not here because Ireland isn't pet friendly at all.

sillysmiles

I suspect that the type of dog owners who keep their dogs locked in the back garden, dogs that are unkempt and poorly socialised are unlikely to bring there dogs with them.
The type of people for who their dogs are part of the family, go places with them, and live inside with them are (imo) more likely to being their dogs with them. Dogs that are socialised and cleaned.

Layinghen

In Italy, Spain, France no problem bringing your dog with you when you go out for a meal or a drink. The UK have lots of dog friendly premises, Germany is very accommodating towards our furry friends. Here in Ireland why are our dogs treated so differently?

I think it is very sad when you can't take your best pal into cafe or pub with you and you are so grateful if they have a smoking area with seating out the front where you are left dine or drink alfresco.

Dubl07

It's not just annoying to Irish dog owners. I'm in a number of dog forums and lots of UK and Europeans would like to tour Ireland but while it's possible to find accommodation, it's patchy and often unsuitable (no enclosed garden space and dogs can't be left home alone) or the dogs are merely tolerated. Having to leave the poor dogs in the car because there's nowhere to eat or drink is abhorrent to most responsible dog-owners. They'll generally make other arrangements for places in Wales, East Anglia, Cornwall, France, Italy etc where dogs are welcome on some beaches, pubs and restaurants. Irish policies are allowing the UK to hoover up mainland UK and continental people and the continent to take the lion's share of UK dog owners.

Allowing pet dogs in shouldn't be forced on a premises but it definitely shouldn't be banned by an agency which is more responsible for the ill-health and death of humans in the state due to hospital waiting times, grubbiness, grime and mismanagement than any other since the famine. This is their latest bugbear when depression and loneliness are at critical levels? Clean up your act, HSE. Look at the mote in your own eye.

PucaMama

mel.b wrote: »

I disagree. One of the things i love about visiting places like Germany is that people can take their dogs everywhere. We saw them in resturants, hotels, trains and ferries. Its such a friendly inclusive attitude and maybe if were allowed to do it here, dogs would be more part of the family rather than being left in backyards.

We can't do all that here and my dogs still aren't left outside. The type of person to leave their dog in the back garden aren't the ones who want to bring them to the pub.

Subcomandante Marcos

When I'm back in Spain with family myself and my grandfather go to some of the local bars for Tapas every other evening and his perro de agua always comes with us, when my grand father goes into the village to meet his friends for coffee in the mornings, the dog goes with him, he gets the train or bus into Granada city centre with him a few times per week. Basically the dog goes everywhere with him and nobody bats an eye.

That's how it should be everywhere, the dog sits at his feet on the pavement or on the tiles in a restaurant and chills out while he chats to his friends and doesn't bother anyone unless the owners or other patrons decide to have a chat with him in which case he'll let them pat him or do the odd trick for them in return for a rub.

hardCopy

My dog is no more dirty than my own boots.

I generally find people with the best trained and socialised dogs are the most well looked after, the smelly dogs are the neglected ones locked in a garden day and night.

oppenheimer1

muddypaws wrote: »

If you're going to answer on behalf of another poster - can you please tell me what 'unquantifiable health risk' dogs pose in pubs.

A dog is liable to piss and/or shite on the floor.Other patrons could be allergic to hair. How is the owner of the business meant to know if the animal is properly socialised as well.

All well and good until a child (or adult) stands on a cranky dogs tail and gets bitten. Why would a business owner want that liability when s/he will earn nothing extra for taking that risk?

intheclouds

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A dog is liable to piss and/or shite on the floor.Other patrons could be allergic to hair. How is the owner of the business meant to know if the animal is properly socialised as well.

All well and good until a child (or adult) stands on a cranky dogs tail and gets bitten. Why would a business owner want that liability when s/he will earn nothing extra for taking that risk?

I've worked in restaurants and I can categorically state that children are FAR more likely to piss, ****, vomit and spread snot not only on the floor, but on tables, chairs, other patrons.....

I'd imagine if I was allergic to dog hair I'd choose not to pet the dog?

Why would people be standing on cranky dogs tails? Seriously?

PucaMama

intheclouds wrote: »

I've worked in restaurants and I can categorically state that children are FAR more likely to piss, ****, vomit and spread snot not only on the floor, but on tables, chairs, other patrons.....

I'd imagine if I was allergic to dog hair I'd choose not to pet the dog?

Why would people be standing on cranky dogs tails? Seriously?

People could stand on a tail completely by accident. And have you forgotten hair can leave the dog? And float around?

gctest50

PucaMama wrote: »

...........And have you forgotten hair can leave the dog? And float around?

at least they don't poo in yer drink

http://www.pccc.edu/uploads/Xu/1x/Xu1xPvHvoXeYex8Gf1Uh0Q/JEH_Dec_07_with_Copyright.pdf


"They put lemon in my Diet Coke, I didn't ask for it, and so I decided to do a study."

Loving and her team swabbed for bacteria as soon as drinks hit the table at restaurants all around Paterson, New Jersey.

"You would think they had dipped the lemons in raw meat," she said, referring to the high levels of bacteria that she found.

The swabs of lemon wedges revealed everything from high counts of fecal bacteria to a couple of dozen other microorganisms

oppenheimer1

gctest50 wrote: »

at least they don't poo in yer drink

Whataboutery. Other poor hygiene practices do not excuse the poor hygiene practice of allowing animals where food is served.

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Whataboutery. Other poor hygiene practices do not excuse the poor hygiene practice of allowing animals where food is served.

Food is served in my house & I have 4 dogs. I've not poisoned anyone yet.

Dubl07

Pets can be as allergic to human dander as people can be to pets' dander. If you have an allergy to dogs, do your research and either chose another place to drink/eat or don't sit beside a dog. Or take one of the many antihistamines available over the counter or on prescription. We share the planet with other creatures. Dogs and other companion animals should not be confined to the four walls of their houses just as an orca should not be confined to a tank.

gctest50

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Whataboutery. Other poor hygiene practices do not excuse the poor hygiene practice of allowing animals where food is served.

Only a bit of fun y'know - that post has a lot of stress and other things going on - interacting with animals improve all sorts of things like that

Limited evidence exists for positive effects of Human Animal Interaction on: reduction of stress-related parameters such as epinephrine and norepinephrine; improvement of immune system functioning and pain management; increased trustworthiness of and trust toward other persons; reduced aggression; enhanced empathy and improved learning.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3408111/

oppenheimer1

Dubl07 wrote: »

Pets can be as allergic to human dander as people can be to pets' dander. If you have an allergy to dogs, do your research and either chose another place to drink/eat or don't sit beside a dog. Or take one of the many antihistamines available over the counter or on prescription. We share the planet with other creatures. Dogs and other companion animals should not be confined to the four walls of their houses just as an orca should not be confined to a tank.

You're right, they shouldn't be confined to four walls. They should be outside.

Whats in it for a business owner to not have paying customers come into his premises over non paying dogs?

Dubl07

PucaMama wrote: »

People could stand on a tail completely by accident. And have you forgotten hair can leave the dog? And float around?

People who bring dogs to public places tend to have dogs trained to settle peacefully and also prefer tables where the dog can sit in a corner or at the wall. The greatest danger would be where a rugrat with no parental control or manners isn't prevented from vexatious interaction with the dog by parent or pet owner. I'll happily whisk up a toddler or older child and return him or her to his mama or papa if he attempts to bother my dog in a restaurant, the park or elsewhere. It's only good manners on everyone's part.

That's entirely ignoring the benefits to the immune and limbic systems from interaction with pets.

elperello

More "nanny state" nonsense from the HSE.
I can't recall any huge outbreak of illness caused by dogs being in pubs.

se conman

We spent a week in North Wales and it was such a pleasure to see all the signs
"Muddy boots and dogs welcome"
There were several water bowls outside each establishment and there were no problems at all.
A couple of my local establishments have "regular canine visitors" , with or without their owners. Everyone knows them by name and has a chat with them as if they were a human acquaintance.

Dubl07

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You're right, they shouldn't be confined to four walls. They should be outside.

Whats in it for a business owner to not have paying customers come into his premises over non paying dogs?

What's in it? Look at the statistics. People of all ages who visit eateries have dogs. Teens, young couples, parents, middle aged, elderly. If dog owners had options and that's what I'm advocating, they'd be able to bring their dog to a given park and then have a coffee. To the pier and then have lunch. To Glendalough and then have a cup of tea or a glass of wine. Dogs are accompanied by people of far more ages and backgrounds than children and are generally quieter, better behaved (and leashed)!

The dog-owning segment of society is probably less contingent upon economic variables than that of parents. Dogs shouldn't be banned by the HSE because for example eg some hysterical D4 type has a hissy fit about her child being asked by an owner not to maul a cuddly-looking dog or because a rural dweller doesn't like it that a quiet and settled dog won't obey a stranger's commands to be petted.

DBB

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A dog is liable to piss and/or shite on the floor.Other patrons could be allergic to hair. How is the owner of the business meant to know if the animal is properly socialised as well.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You're right, they shouldn't be confined to four walls. They should be outside.

Whats in it for a business owner to not have paying customers come into his premises over non paying dogs?

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Whataboutery. Other poor hygiene practices do not excuse the poor hygiene practice of allowing animals where food is served.

For one who's accusing others of whataboutery, you're indulging in a fair bit of it yourself!
Foe example, all the people here pointing out that their experiences of dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners reflect a strong trend for the dogs to be clean, well-behaved, and *newsflash* housetrained, yet you still come out with accusations such as dogs toileting all over pubs? Lol! You've made comments about dogs in pubs being filthy, and you've been asked to substantiate that in light of it being contrary to everyone else's experiences, but instead of that... More strawman stuff, more whataboutery!
The type of dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners stand every bit as much a chance of urinating or defecating in a pub as any guide dog does.
Soooo... You have no issue with guide dogs in places, yet you seem to be claiming that dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners, who are every bit as clean, mannerly, and *newsflash* housetrained as any guide dog, should not be allowed in?
Is it the case the guide dogs don't elicit allergic reactions from susceptible people? Or shed hair, bearing in mind they're lab x Retrievers?
Does not compute.

I've brought my dogs into many, many premises. Without any doubt, if the proprieter gets any inkling that there's a problem with a dog, they'll cop it very, very quickly. If they have a problem, they won't hesitate to ask for the dogs to go. It has never happened to me yet, and I've never seen it happen to other dog owners-who-bring-their-dogs-places. Why has it not happened? Could it... Could it be that all of those dogs managed to settle calmly, resisting the urge to crap all over the pub/hotel/accommodation? It's more usually the case that people don't even realise the dog is there! I have never once encountered a dog in a pub or hotel who was causing a problem. Not once. Maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners are just well behaved.

Also, *newsflash#2*, non-paying dogs have paying owners! But we all know that!

oppenheimer1

DBB wrote: »

For one who's accusing others of whataboutery, you're indulging in a fair bit of it yourself!
Foe example, all the people here pointing out that their experiences of dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners reflect a strong trend for the dogs to be clean, well-behaved, and *newsflash* housetrained, yet you still come out with accusations such as dogs toileting all over pubs? Lol! You've made comments about dogs in pubs being filthy, and you've been asked to substantiate that in light of it being contrary to everyone else's experiences, but instead of that... More strawman stuff, more whataboutery!
The type of dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners stand every bit as much a chance of urinating or defecating in a pub as any guide dog does.
Soooo... You have no issue with guide dogs in places, yet you seem to be claiming that dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners, who are every bit as clean, mannerly, and *newsflash* housetrained as any guide dog, should not be allowed in?
Is it the case the guide dogs don't elicit allergic reactions from susceptible people? Or shed hair, bearing in mind they're lab x Retrievers?
Does not compute.

Thankfully, the pubs and restaurants I frequent prohibit dogs in general so I do have little experience if seeing it happen in those places. That's not my point though, its how is a business owner going to know how well trained this animal that someone has brought onto his premises is: The owner says he's house trained but they could be lying (they're hardly going to say he's not so he'd have to tie him up outside). The owner doesn't know how the dog is going to react when food is brought out, or if something unforeseen happens, such as someone accidentally standing on him - which could easily happen given the mess of chairs and tablecloths most places are. And the business owner is liable for anything that happens.

I do have experience however with badly trained dogs on public transport. I've seen them piss and shite on buses and trains. The most memorable incident was this lady who I saw walk into Heuston train station toilets with filthy Labrador on an ordinary lead and out with him on a guide dogs harness, dragging him along so he could board the train. I happened to be on the same one (Waterford btw) and the smell was horrific.

I've brought my dogs into many, many premises. Without any doubt, if the proprieter gets any inkling that there's a problem with a dog, they'll cop it very, very quickly. If they have a problem, they won't hesitate to ask for the dogs to go. It has never happened to me yet, and I've never seen it happen to other dog owners-who-bring-their-dogs-places. Why has it not happened? Could it... Could it be that all of those dogs managed to settle calmly, resisting the urge to crap all over the pub/hotel/accommodation? It's more usually the case that people don't even realise the dog is there! I have never once encountered a dog in a pub or hotel who was causing a problem. Not once. Maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe dogs-who-go-places-with-their-owners are just well behaved.

Also, *newsflash#2*, non-paying dogs have paying owners! But we all know that!

As for your second newsflash, owners of dogs will still go places without dogs, but the presence of dogs will put many people off. The market for dog friendly places is too small to be sustainable for somewhere even the size of Dublin. Businesses will cater for the larger market.

tk123

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Thankfully, the pubs and restaurants I frequent prohibit dogs in general so I do have little experience if seeing it happen in those places. That's not my point though, its how is a business owner going to know how well trained this animal that someone has brought onto his premises is: The owner says he's house trained but they could be lying (they're hardly going to say he's not so he'd have to tie him up outside). The owner doesn't know how the dog is going to react when food is brought out, or if something unforeseen happens, such as someone accidentally standing on him - which could easily happen given the mess of chairs and tablecloths most places are. And the business owner is liable for anything that happens.

I do have experience however with badly trained dogs on public transport. I've seen them piss and shite on buses and trains. The most memorable incident was this lady who I saw walk into Heuston train station toilets with filthy Labrador on an ordinary lead and out with him on a guide dogs harness, dragging him along so he could board the train. I happened to be on the same one (Waterford btw) and the smell was horrific.




As for your second newsflash, owners of dogs will still go places without dogs, but the presence of dogs will put many people off. The market for dog friendly places is too small to be sustainable for somewhere even the size of Dublin. Businesses will cater for the larger market.

Ah so as expected your 'in my experience' comment at the start that I asked you to back up with business you've been in with dogs was BS...because you have no experience of dogs in any pubs etc that you've been in?

There's plenty of dog friendly places around Dublin that do a roaring trade and the dogs are warmly welcomed by both staff and people without dogs. We couldn't get a seat on Sunday morning outside one of them was that packed - Sunday!
And NO I wouldn't go to them without my dogs - what in the name of God would I be doing without my dogs in a park or forest?


EVERY business is required by law to permit guide/service dogs who 'in your experience' can be 'filthy and smelly' so you're just digging yourself deeper - you've just agreed (whether you meant to or not) that they're no cleaner than an ordinary unemployed pet dog so if one is allowed there's no reason not to allow the other.
Nobody has died of anaphalictic shock from my dog's hair yet either so the dog hair allergy argument is a farce too.

It's the owner of that business in the story is questioning the HSE's decision because allowing dogs is obviously good for business. If having dogs there was doing any damage to his revenue we wouldn't be discussing the issue here.

As for p1ssing and sh1tting ...thats seems to be coming from posters like yourself.. You have experience, you don't have experience. You won't fequent anywhere that allows dogs so help you God...when everywhere already allows SOME dogs.

gctest50

Going on all that, i suppose they'd go into overload if someone suggested School-Dogs

( teachers bring in their own dogs a few times a week )

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.schulhundweb.de/&prev=search

www.schulhundweb.de

intheclouds

PucaMama wrote: »

People could stand on a tail completely by accident. And have you forgotten hair can leave the dog? And float around?

Hair leaves people and floats around too.

DBB

Oppenheimer1, I'm not going to quote examples, because there are too many, of where you've stated something and then contradicted yourself, or completely diminished any point you've made because all you can come up with is (a) no examples, or (b) one example.
Let me assure you, as I did already, and remembering that I'm basing this on hundreds of examples, both personal and observed, owners of pubs, hotels, accommodation etc will know immediately if a dog is going to cause a problem. It is immediately obvious to the least observant person that a dog is well-mannered, calm, and friendly. It is a foregone conclusion that these dogs are housetrained. If there is a problem, it's a simple matter of asking the owner to remove the dog. I've never seen that though.
On another point... Owners-who-bring-their-dogs-places are generally not thick enough to bring their dog into crowded establishments, and most certainly will not put their dog in a position where it'll get stood on. Neither do we expect to bring dogs into restaurants.
There are hundreds of thousands of dog owners in Ireland. Even if a small percentage of those are owners-who-bring-their-dogs-places, you'll come up with multiples of thousands. Then you've got the majority of customers who don't-bring-their-dog-places, or who have no problem with dogs. Then you've got the small number of people who don't agree with dogs being in places. A niche market? I don't believe so. See? We can all massage information to suit ourselves. I'll bet mine is closer to the truth though!

Anyway, I hadn't really intended using up so much of my time posting this. What I really wanted to say is that everything you've said is utterly confounded by so many other countries where dogs are openly welcomed into pubs and hotels. They seem to have realised that it's not a niche market, and it's really not a problem.
Can you tell me, how do you reconcile this?

DBB

gctest50 wrote: »

Going on all that, i suppose they'd go into overload if someone suggested School-Dogs

( teachers bring in their own dogs a few times a week )

Oh sweet jebus!
Will someone PLEASE think of the children?!!!!

hardCopy

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Thankfully, the pubs and restaurants I frequent prohibit dogs in general so I do have little experience if seeing it happen in those places. That's not my point though, its how is a business owner going to know how well trained this animal that someone has brought onto his premises is: The owner says he's house trained but they could be lying (they're hardly going to say he's not so he'd have to tie him up outside). The owner doesn't know how the dog is going to react when food is brought out, or if something unforeseen happens, such as someone accidentally standing on him - which could easily happen given the mess of chairs and tablecloths most places are. And the business owner is liable for anything that happens.

I do have experience however with badly trained dogs on public transport. I've seen them piss and shite on buses and trains. The most memorable incident was this lady who I saw walk into Heuston train station toilets with filthy Labrador on an ordinary lead and out with him on a guide dogs harness, dragging him along so he could board the train. I happened to be on the same one (Waterford btw) and the smell was horrific.




As for your second newsflash, owners of dogs will still go places without dogs, but the presence of dogs will put many people off. The market for dog friendly places is too small to be sustainable for somewhere even the size of Dublin. Businesses will cater for the larger market.

I think you've missed the point by quite a distance.

The pub owner wants dogs on their premises.

Nobody wants pub owners to be forced to accept dogs, just like they don't have to allow kids on the premises or accommodate buggies and prams or people in dirty runners.

All the owner wants, and I think most on this thread want is for the HSE to leave it up to the pub owner to decide if they allow dogs.

If a dog misbehaves the pub just ask them to leave, like they would an unruly human punter.

I've never met anyone who would leave a pub due to the mere presence of a dog, what do these dog averse Irish people do abroad? Because it's pretty hard to spend a weekend in the UK or Germany without sitting or standing beside a dog in a pub or train.

I totally agree that not every dog is suited to chilling under a table (my own dog especially) nor would they fit in in every pub either, just as different pubs have different admission policies and dress codes.

DBB

hardCopy wrote: »

The pub owner wants dogs on their premises.

Nobody wants pub owners to be forced to accept dogs, just like they don't have to allow kids on the premises or accommodate buggies and prams or people in dirty runners.

All the owner wants, and I think most on this thread want is for the HSE to leave it up to the pub owner to decide if they allow dogs.

After everything that's been said, this is the post of the thread!
This is what it boils down to.

sillysmiles

Having listened to the owner of the pub in question on the radio this morning - allowing dogs on her premises was her USP.

No one is suggesting that premises have to allow dogs but that if a venue owner chooses to make their premises dog friendly then that is their decision.

If someone is very anti dog then it is their choice not to go to that place. It is the venue owners choice to allow dogs in. It is the dog owners choice to bring their dog or not. It's all about people being responsible for their own actions and not having blanket rules enforced based on fear and worst case scenario.

sillysmiles

^ Or what hardcopy said!

seamus

L1011 wrote: »

I'm entirely in agreement with the HSE here. As well behaved as anyones dogs can be, they are an unquantifiable health risk. I wouldn't frequent a pub or restaurant that allowed dogs in anyway so it wouldn't directly impact on me if one did, but the health concerns are still there.

How can something be a risk if it's "unquantifiable"?

Either you can demonstrate a health risk posed by animals or you can't. You can't declare there's definitely a risk and in the same breath say that it's unknown.

What is the health risk in having a dog in a pub or a restaurant that doesn't exist in someone's home?

Alun

seamus wrote: »

What is the health risk in having a dog in a pub or a restaurant that doesn't exist in someone's home?

Exactly. This is the core of the question. If people seriously think there are "unquantifiable", i.e. non-existent, health consequences from even being in the same room as a dog, I'm surprised they even dare to go outside on the street without bathing themselves in bleach on a regular basis.