Restricted dog breeds

Benedict

In the Irish Indo today, there's a picture of a woman in danger of losing an arm from bites from a "restricted breed". I see Alsations all the time in public - they are usually on leads, but rarely wearing muzzles. The law says an Alsation must have a muzzle in public. Is this regarded as one of those "laws" which doesn't need to be obeyed? Because it is most definitely flaunted!

seamus

Yes, it's one of those laws that's ignored because it's pointless.

Dangerous dogs are created by dangerous owners, who are not going to obey the law anyway. The kind of owner who would diligently obey the law and muzzle their dog has exactly the kind of dog that doesn't need to be muzzled.

I've encountered far more non-RB dogs on walks that need to be muzzled than RB dogs.

Toots

Completely agree with Seamus. We've got a LabradorXstaffie and we never ever bring her out without a muzzle and a strong short leash. We used to walk her at tea time every day but our neighbor is terrified of her (she literally turned and ran when she saw us coming one day) so now we walk her at about 9pm so we won't bump into her coming home from work.

There's a doberman and a gsd in our apartment block also, and they're always muzzled when they're out. Then there's a bichon frisse in the block next door that is positively vicious. If the owners were going out to their car, they'd never have it on a leash, and one day it was going out the door and a kid was going in. The dog bit the child as she passed. The owners tried to deny it and refused to get rid of the dog, so the poor kid was so traumatised that she wouldn't go out the front door for fear of meeting the dog. Her parents got a gate installed in their balcony fence (ground floor) so the child could get in and out.

Just recently there was an article in the paper showing that the owners were sued by the kid and the judge awarded her €15K and ordered that the dog be removed from the apartment.

borderlinemeath

^^^

The most people aggressive dog I know is a bichon frise. And of course he's a magnet for kids who want to pet the cute white fluffy doggy. He lives with adults and has had no interaction with children, he's also not great with older people. Any new people in general actually.

Some of the most adorable dogs I know are on the RB list. In my opinion and experience, some of the most aggressive are what are considered by many (inexperienced dog owners) to be a good family dog - bichons, cockers, JRTs. People think, small size, easy to manage, won't knock the children over, tending to forget that dogs have short fuses for being pulled at and lifted up by children who treat them like a teddy.

Toots

I worked in boarding kennels walking dogs all through my teens, and of the literally thousands I interacted with over the years, only 2 ever bit me; one was a tibetian terrier and one was a bichon frisse. Neither one gave any warning either, it was literally just out of the blue. We had plenty of 'restricted' breeds staying with us, and none of them were ever aggressive.

Both of these dogs that bit me came from families with kids under 12. My boss told the owners of one of them that the dog had bitten me and the owner basically accused her of lying, then when we showed her my arm she said I must have provoked the dog in some way. I reassured her that I wasn't going to try and sue her or anything, we just thought that she should know, and it was something to keep an eye on. The dog was booked in to stay again for the October mid-term about 8 weeks later, and the week before it was due in, the owner rang up to cancel the booking. She told my boss that the dog had bitten one of the kids, so they'd gotten rid of it. Apparently it had bitten the oldest child (about 12) a couple of times before, but not hard enough to leave a mark, and the kid never told her parents because she was afraid the dog would be given away. :eek:

deadlybuzzman

When we got our dog we always muzzled her on walks.
It was pretty obvious early on that she's a friendly gentle dog and we soon left the muzzle at home due to meeting on average one agressive dog per Saturday walk, all of them off leash and all of them clearly not under control and there was no way we'd leave our dog defenseless if anything happened.
For the record the dogs were jack Russells, border collies etc. All supposedly the nice family dogs and that's partly the problem, they're all complacent about what can go wrong whereas restricted breed owners generally will make sure their dog is well behaved

Cedrus

Benedict wrote: »

In the Irish Indo today, there's a picture of a woman in danger of losing an arm from bites from a "restricted breed".

I have been scanning the papers about this, first reported as a Pitbull Mastiff, I don't believe there is any such breed and cannot find anything among the various breed standards, just a makey uppy scary headline (not withstanding that the woman was hurt).
Then on the radio this morning I heard it was a Dogo Argentino but from 2 photos I've seen it definitely isn't bred to show, it fails the breed standard on colour alone.
The media reporting of these incidents is usually specious at best, facts come after the drama, if they are included at all.

Aragneer

My auntie used to own a staffie and he was honestly the softest, cuddliest dog ever. He never had a bad bone in his body. People used to call for him to be muzzled but he never bit anyone and I never even heard him growl.

Now I have a colliexfoxterrier and if my other animals even go near her food bowl (just walking past), she will snap. She is super friendly with people as we've kept her well socialised but it just shows that often the more vicious breeds or the ones that could snap are breeds that are passed over.

Choc Chip

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

When we got our dog we always muzzled her on walks.
It was pretty obvious early on that she's a friendly gentle dog and we soon left the muzzle at home due to meeting on average one agressive dog per Saturday walk, all of them off leash and all of them clearly not under control and there was no way we'd leave our dog defenseless if anything happened.

Just in addition to the dog being able to defend itself, if you are raising a RB and have to keep it leashed and muzzled in public places, it's surely harder to properly socialise it and for it to learn bite inhibition? I would imagine that these life skills are almost more important to teach a RB (given society's perception of these dogs and the extent of potential damage a bite could cause) and yet the legislation makes it more difficult to develop these skills outside the home. And I would imagine that teaching these skills in the home is possible, but more difficult for most people.

I have a GSD (black, so it's not immediately obvious to a lot of people). She has an incredibly soft mouth and she's never shown an ounce of aggression, but I'd hesitate before getting a second RB because of people's reactions when you tell them her breed. And those reactions themselves are sad, because she is better behaved than 99% of the dogs we meet out on our walks.

Benedict

The point is people are frightened when they see, for example, a GSD without a leash or muzzle. If you see a man waving a pistol, will it help if someone says "Don't worry! He knows how to use it and he's as gentle as a lamb". Answer? NO.

There was an owner prosecuted some years ago for having a GSD off the lead in Blancherstown Shopping Centre and fined E700.

But mostly, nothing is done.

Choc Chip

I'm not sure whether that was directed at my comment, but for what it's worth I wouldn't equate someone walking a gsd (or any RB) to a man waving a pistol.

A pistol is designed to kill or main and has no other function. I can't imagine a scenario where there would be an innocuous reason to walk down the street waving a pistol. A dog is a companion animal and needs a daily (if not more) walk and so a person walking a GSD is likely just going about their business on their daily walk. The fact that any dog has the capacity to hurt (in certain circumstances) shouldn't mean that all dogs should be banned or unneccesarily constrained, in the same way that cows and cars aren't treated that way - both have the capacity to harm in certain circumstances, but that isn't their primary function and society deems the risks acceptable for the rewards these provide us.

I think a study of dog bites found that they have risen over 50% since RB legislation was introduced. That would surely suggest that RB legislation is innefective at best.

Choc Chip

The article is available here if you're interested: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275333996_Human_hospitalisations_due_to_dog_bites_in_Ireland_1998-2013_Implications_for_current_breed_specific_legislation

Hope it's ok to provide the link mods!

The statistics, including dog bites per 100,000 human population are on page 10 of the pdf.

borderlinemeath

Benedict wrote: »

The point is people are frightened when they see, for example, a GSD without a leash or muzzle.

100% because of media bias and scaremongering. Anytime there's an article about a dog attack, the "journalist" tends to get the breed incorrect, and it's usually accompanied by a "file picture" of a snarling dog. The facts are ALWAYS sketchy and the reporting tends to be sensationalist.

How would people feel about seeing a great dane or an Irish wolfhound without a leash or muzzle? There's no law requiring them to wear either, yet they are far bigger and far more imposing than a lot of the breeds on the RB list. Once they are under effective control they can be off lead and not a thing can be done about it.

VonVix

borderlinemeath wrote: »

How would people feel about seeing a great dane or an Irish wolfhound without a leash or muzzle? There's no law requiring them to wear either, yet they are far bigger and far more imposing than a lot of the breeds on the RB list. Once they are under effective control they can be off lead and not a thing can be done about it.

Reminds me of a woman I see in my local park always walking her white GSD off leash and throwing the ball for him/her from time to time. No-one bats an eye, I wonder would there be the same feeling/reaction from passers by if the GSD was a black and tan.

I have had people walking their dogs into a ditch just to avoid me and my big evil doggie, which in turn causes him to bark at them because they're acting weird, hiding in a ditch just standing there staring at my dog. :rolleyes:

deadlybuzzman

borderlinemeath wrote: »

100% because of media bias and scaremongering. Anytime there's an article about a dog attack, the "journalist" tends to get the breed incorrect, and it's usually accompanied by a "file picture" of a snarling dog. The facts are ALWAYS sketchy and the reporting tends to be sensationalist.

How would people feel about seeing a great dane or an Irish wolfhound without a leash or muzzle? There's no law requiring them to wear either, yet they are far bigger and far more imposing than a lot of the breeds on the RB list. Once they are under effective control they can be off lead and not a thing can be done about it.

Alot of these reactions are mindless and are based on what the likes of the Sunday world and daily mail tell people to think but also on what I'd call the Disney factor.
Great Danes in the past have topped annual fatal dog bite stats in America but as they've that goofy Disney character look nobody thinks twice about them even though if they want they could do serious damage..... but they generally don't, just like most dogs.
Even my dog gets plenty of surprised or disbelieving looks because she looks like a cuter version of the dog off the ancient Little Rascals tv show so she couldn't possibly be one of those scary devil dogs that'll eat your face the first chance it gets

Dubs1990

I also read it was a staffordshire bull terrier , they will write what people want to hear ! I own a 7 month old GSD , not once have I muzzled him and I refuse to aswell , I keep him on a long lead in the park but let him off in the open pitches he's friendly with dogs and people and has showed no sign of aggression , 4 times dogs have had a proper go at him all terrier breeds , best one was the other day when I asked the owner why have him off the lead if he's like that with dogs her reply was " he's not my dog he's my friends " I laughed before I blew a fuse , I know have to walk him very early in the morning so I do not come across owners who have 0 control over there dogs.

TG1

Dubs1990 wrote: »

I also read it was a staffordshire bull terrier , they will write what people want to hear ! I own a 7 month old GSD , not once have I muzzled him and I refuse to aswell , I keep him on a long lead in the park but let him off in the open pitches he's friendly with dogs and people and has showed no sign of aggression , 4 times dogs have had a proper go at him all terrier breeds , best one was the other day when I asked the owner why have him off the lead if he's like that with dogs her reply was " he's not my dog he's my friends " I laughed before I blew a fuse , I know have to walk him very early in the morning so I do not come across owners who have 0 control over there dogs.

I feel I have to step in in defence of all the non rb dog owners, I've come across owners who have no control over restricted breeds too, I used to walk in a park where a Rottweiler was walked off leash and if I kept walking he would have been home with me following my collie while his owner stood there calling with no effect!! I was tempted on a couple of occasions as he was only a pup and just so cuddley!

Also circumstances change, I used to always walk my dog off lead but can't now as he doesn't hear you call anymore. It took a few incidents for us to realise where I'm sure people thought I had no training done with him so I don't think people should be so disparaging over one off incidents!

on topic, I don't agree with the restricted breed list at all, I think it's pointless and damaging to the reputation of the breeds involved, but I also don't agree with taking chances with your dog. I know it's easy for me to say but if the law stated my dog had to be leashed and muzzled I wouldn't take the chance that he could be taken off me. I love Staffies and GSDs in particular but that law is the main reason I have a collie instead. I couldn't knowingly flout it and I would hate to have a dog I had to muzzle to go outside with.

Choc Chip

TG1 wrote: »

I feel I have to step in in defence of all the non rb dog owners, I've come across owners who have no control over restricted breeds too, I used to walk in a park where a Rottweiler was walked off leash and if I kept walking he would have been home with me following my collie while his owner stood there calling with no effect!! I was tempted on a couple of occasions as he was only a pup and just so cuddley!

I think that highlights another problem with the RB legislation - If you want a "hardman" dog it provides a readymade list of these. I'm not suggesting that was the case here, but if you are looking for a dog that provides a certain image, the RB list provides some legitamacy that these dogs are "dangerous". So people might buy RB dogs for image/ intimidation/ protection purposes and don't consider any training needs.

I do agree with you btw - I love GSDs but the muzzling was a big issue in our decision-making process. I'm not sure I'd have a second RB dog, and that's with having nearly 200 acres of private land on which she can run free... I've been tempted by a collie for number two.

Latatian

It, or ideas that there are specific 'dangerous' dogs, also provide the corrollory idea that other dogs are 'safe'. It's a labrador, so it's fine, even though it's showing signs of aggression - "What, are you afraid of a labrador?" is asked with disbelief of those who differ. Or the idea that other dogs are just stuffed teddies and you can do what you like to them because 'those dogs are nice'.

I've had someone let their toddler run up behind me and my dog and hug the dog- and then fall onto the dog. Child could have easily got their face badly bitten, and even a perfectly nice dog who liked kids would do it if they had no idea what had just attacked them. The dog might be very sorry a second later once it realised it was a person, but that would be too late.

Luckily nothing happened to anyone but the dog- it's an elderly dog with arthritis and hip problems who got hurt by being unexpectedly sat on by something much much bigger than her. The adult was standing behind me watching the whole encounter, no word of 'stop' or 'wait' out of them.

My dog's small, white, and fluffy. So someone decided that she wasn't one of those nasty rotpitmastiffstaffiebulls and it would be grand. ANY dog can bite. You don't get to be an idiot around ANY dog and expect never to be bitten and you certainly shouldn't let a child do so. Even the best behaved dog in the world could, unknown to you, be suddenly ill or in pain and not reacting the way they normally do.

Latatian

It, or ideas that there are specific 'dangerous' dogs, also provide the corrollory idea that other dogs are 'safe'. It's a labrador, so it's fine, even though it's showing signs of aggression - "What, are you afraid of a labrador?" is asked with disbelief of those who differ. Or the idea that other dogs are just stuffed teddies and you can do what you like to them because 'those dogs are nice'.

I've had someone let their toddler run up behind me and my dog and hug the dog- and then fall onto the dog. Child could have easily got their face badly bitten, and even a perfectly nice dog who liked kids would do it if they had no idea what had just attacked them. The dog might be very sorry a second later once it realised it was a person, but that would be too late.

Luckily nothing happened to anyone but the dog- it's an elderly dog with arthritis and hip problems who got hurt by being unexpectedly sat on by something much much bigger than her. The adult was standing behind me watching the whole encounter, no word of 'stop' or 'wait' out of them.

My dog's small, white, and fluffy. So someone decided that she wasn't one of those nasty rotpitmastiffstaffiebulls and it would be grand. ANY dog can bite. You don't get to be an idiot around ANY dog and expect never to be bitten and you certainly shouldn't let a child do so. Even the best behaved dog in the world could, unknown to you, be suddenly ill or in pain and not reacting the way they normally do.

ruthy_2504

I have an akita cross who is the softest dog I know! I introduced her to my mothers terrier cross, who was sitting on the couch while my akita was on a lead and sitting patiently on the floor wagging her bushy tail, and mums dog snapped at her! I genuinely think you are more likely to be bitten by a smaller dog, but obviously with a fraction of the power the results are far less than if bitten by a bigger dog.

I think the perception of RB's is led by the media stereotype of the types of RB owners. Like the case in the paper where a dog was told to attack a guard and did!

Any dog if trained well is a pleasure to deal with. Yes, they are still animals and no more than humans, can be unpredictable, but I think if you know your dog well enough you will know when they are not happy and take them out of the situation before it escalates.

And no, I don't muzzle my akita. I tell people she's a husky cross and haven't had anyone call me out yet!

ElKavo

Latatian wrote: »

those nasty rotpitmastiffstaffiebulls.

:pac::pac::pac::pac: I saw one of dem d oder day, gonna get me one. F*ng rapid!

deadlybuzzman

Latatian wrote: »

It, or ideas that there are specific 'dangerous' dogs, also provide the corrollory idea that other dogs are 'safe'. It's a labrador, so it's fine, even though it's showing signs of aggression - "What, are you afraid of a labrador?" is asked with disbelief of those who differ. Or the idea that other dogs are just stuffed teddies and you can do what you like to them because 'those dogs are nice'.

I've had someone let their toddler run up behind me and my dog and hug the dog- and then fall onto the dog. Child could have easily got their face badly bitten, and even a perfectly nice dog who liked kids would do it if they had no idea what had just attacked them. The dog might be very sorry a second later once it realised it was a person, but that would be too late.

Luckily nothing happened to anyone but the dog- it's an elderly dog with arthritis and hip problems who got hurt by being unexpectedly sat on by something much much bigger than her. The adult was standing behind me watching the whole encounter, no word of 'stop' or 'wait' out of them.

My dog's small, white, and fluffy. So someone decided that she wasn't one of those nasty rotpitmastiffstaffiebulls and it would be grand. ANY dog can bite. You don't get to be an idiot around ANY dog and expect never to be bitten and you certainly shouldn't let a child do so. Even the best behaved dog in the world could, unknown to you, be suddenly ill or in pain and not reacting the way they normally do.

Now that you say that it reminded me of a working dog fair that was on up here last summer.
A woman that was working at the event was walking quite quickly by our dog and as she walked by from behind she petted/ruffled her head. Now our dogs placid and didn't react at all but in fairness you couldn't fault a dog that would've snapped.
I was surprised that an adult could think doing that to any strange dog was a good idea

Benedict

The point is, it's illegal and it's illegal for a reason to have ANY dog not under control. But it is particularly anti-social to have a dog off the lead and without a muzzle if it is on the RD list. The owner may think it's fine but people get frightened and they're not putting it on.
And when these dogs smell fear, it can put them into attack mode.

Ireland is full of people who think laws are silly. I see people every day chatting on mobiles while driving and they thing "silly law - no problem driving while chatting" - until they kill you son or daughter!

There should be zero tolerance for anyone allowing any restricted breed off the lead in public. End of story.

Savvy student

But if the government thinks RBs are so dangerous why do the make such good assistance dogs? I know of one family with an assistance dog (GSD cross Lab) for their son who has autism. They don't muzzle their dog, and the shouldn't have to.

DBB

Savvy student wrote: »

But if the government thinks RBs are so dangerous why do the make such good assistance dogs? I know of one family with an assistance dog (GSD cross Lab) for their son who has autism. They don't muzzle their dog, and the shouldn't have to.

Although the law doesn't specifically exempt RB assistance dogs, it does! RB dogs and their crosses, that were trained by certified charities (not individuals... Must be a charity that has been certified by the European assistance dogs umbrella organisation) are covered by the spirit of the exemptions afforded to guide dogs by the legislation.
But yes... You're absolutely right! Some of the RBs routinely make first class assistance and therapy dogs

Choc Chip

Benedict wrote: »

The point is, it's illegal and it's illegal for a reason to have ANY dog not under control. But it is particularly anti-social to have a dog off the lead and without a muzzle if it is on the RD list. The owner may think it's fine but people get frightened and they're not putting it on.
And when these dogs smell fear, it can put them into attack mode.
.

While I agree that it's illegal, I don't see that its necessarily antisocial to have an RB dog off lead and unmuzzled. Also, if you read my previous link I think it shows that the legislation is ineffective, rather than silly.

I don't think it was suggested that people were "putting it on" if they were scared of RB breeds, but this fear is fueled by hysterical media coverage and nonsensical laws demonizing certain breeds, rather than any real risk.

I'd also like to see the study that shows that RB dogs go into "attack mode" when they smell fear. If you could send me a link, that would be great.

ShaShaBear

I've been around dogs my whole life, fostered a few as well. Had some real placid ones and some absolute terrors.
Our current fella has bitten me a few times - Border Collie.
I could rely on at least one bite a year from my last boy - Border Collie.
Our family dog was put down after tearing my mother's ankle so bad that her tendons were showing - Jack Russel Terrier.
My partner's family dog (now deceased) had bitten me twice in the four years I knew him - Cairn Terrier X.
My very first ever dog left my brother with a permanent scar as he tore half of his bottom lip off (1000% my brother's fault) - Collie-Terrier X.

I have been bitten by two of my foster dogs - a Lurcher and a Yorkie. Ironically, the foster GSD was very gentle

Moral of the story? If I was to develop fear of any dog, I'd be steering well clear of collies. Terribly grumpy, short fuse, very easily stressed and agitated and next to no patience when it comes to children. See the amount of them that ends up dumped and in rescues every month?
Owning and fostering and working with three different rescues, I have yet to be bitten or even threatened by any restricted breed or strain thereof.

Being afraid just because you see a dog that is on a RB list is ridiculous. If you are going to be afraid, perhaps choose one of the breeds notorious for short tempers and bites - I'll give you a hint, pick from the top three most popular family dog breeds and you'll probably be close

shakencat

i have a lab x and a rottie..

Both run free in our park off the lead.. although i do keep an eye out for people looking frightened at I'm guessing my scary lab :P i then of course lead him up or move to another open field and let them play!
I no 99% of the walkers/dogs in the park and all love him.. but of course its a park and others are allowed come in for a walk from time to time :P

Ive never used a muzzle.


I always make sure to say hi to owners with RB and say hi to the dog as i feel they got fewer smiles and rubs by us 'strangers'

Three dogs have gone for my Rottweiler.. a sh itzu, a cocker spaniel (Made him bleed) and a lurcher.
every time my guy stands there like.. WTF WAS THAT FOR. and looks at me with sad eyes..

Problem is.. if my guy stands up for himself I AM in trouble.. for their silly dog provoking my teddy bear.

I mean, how could you be scared of this stupid hairy thing!!

3dogs

shakencat wrote: »

i have a lab x and a rottie..

Both run free in our park off the lead.. although i do keep an eye out for people looking frightened at I'm guessing my scary lab :P i then of course lead him up or move to another open field and let them play!
I no 99% of the walkers/dogs in the park and all love him.. but of course its a park and others are allowed come in for a walk from time to time :P

Ive never used a muzzle.


I always make sure to say hi to owners with RB and say hi to the dog as i feel they got fewer smiles and rubs by us 'strangers'

Three dogs have gone for my Rottweiler.. a sh itzu, a cocker spaniel (Made him bleed) and a lurcher.
every time my guy stands there like.. WTF WAS THAT FOR. and looks at me with sad eyes..

Problem is.. if my guy stands up for himself I AM in trouble.. for their silly dog provoking my teddy bear.

I mean, how could you be scared of this stupid hairy thing!!


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I'd be more worried by your lab.... my eldest who is a little over 5kg was the sweetest little jacker who was great with other dogs until my neighbours huge, rude lab picked her up and tried to bash her against the wall, she now snaps first and asks questions never

shakencat

3dogs wrote: »

I'd be more worried by your lab.... my eldest who is a little over 5kg was the sweetest little jacker who was great with other dogs until my neighbours huge, rude lab picked her up and tried to bash her against the wall, she now snaps first and asks questions never

I'm not worried about either although i know you 'never know...'

I love them

TrueIt

VonVix wrote: »

Reminds me of a woman I see in my local park always walking her white GSD off leash and throwing the ball for him/her from time to time. No-one bats an eye, I wonder would there be the same feeling/reaction from passers by if the GSD was a black and tan.

I have had people walking their dogs into a ditch just to avoid me and my big evil doggie, which in turn causes him to bark at them because they're acting weird, hiding in a ditch just standing there staring at my dog. :rolleyes:

Does the muzzle law include the white swiss shepard breed?

VonVix

TrueIt wrote: »

Does the muzzle law include the white swiss shepard breed?

I don't know, but I couldn't imagine they would be recognized as a separate breed as I would think they are considered a strain of the GSD type.

daRobot

Just want to give this thread a bump, and ask anyone who agrees that this thoroughly ill-considered law should be changed, to mention it to your local politician when they inevitably show up on your door.

It clearly doesn't work, as dog bites have increased by 20% since its introduction in 1998, and moreover, some of the big dogs on the list really do need to be off lead to get a proper run. A lead walk is not sufficient for their exercise needs, and its genuinely cruel.

See this article for more info:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/lifestyle/dog-bites-up-by-over-20-in-15-years-31196951.html

ganmo

daRobot wrote: »

Just want to give this thread a bump, and ask anyone who agrees that this thoroughly ill-considered law should be changed, to mention it to your local politician when they inevitably show up on your door.

It clearly doesn't work, as dog bites have increased by 20% since its introduction in 1998, and moreover, some of the big dogs on the list really do need to be off lead to get a proper run. A lead walk is not sufficient for their exercise needs, and its genuinely cruel.

See this article for more info:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/lifestyle/dog-bites-up-by-over-20-in-15-years-31196951.html

it doesn't work because nobody complies plain and simple

a lead walk cruel? so that is how ppl justify ignoring requests to put them on leads? :rolleyes:

Latatian

It doesn't work because most of the dog bites are from collies and terriers (being common), not restricted breeds. If it didn't work to decrease dog bites *because* nobody complied with muzzling those awful dogs who bite most people, then you'd be seeing restricted breeds higher up in the bite statistics.

And most dog bites aren't from a stranger's wandering dog anyway- generally they're from a dog you know, and as the article says you get bitten when you are doing something to the dog. Many of these bites occur inside or on private property- so you don't have to have the dog muzzled anyway.

Can you imagine if collies, terriers, spaniels, or particular breeds (say 'border collies or anything that looks like a border collie') had to be muzzled in public? Imagine the outrage it would cause. And yet they're the ones doing the biting, and no-one has ever shown that they 'do less damage when they bite' etc. (size seems to matter but staffies are pretty small?)

daRobot

ganmo wrote: »

it doesn't work because nobody complies plain and simple

a lead walk cruel? so that is how ppl justify ignoring requests to put them on leads? :rolleyes:

Okay, so that's the theory that exists in your head. But this would appear to fly in the face of international, government collected evidence which has led to similar laws being completely abandoned in other countries where they previously existed.

And yes, for certain breeds, a lead walk with no free running is cruel. It of course is better than nothing however. But if you can't see the difference between the exercise requirements of say a Bulldog, versus an athletic breed like a Doberman then I really have no idea what to say to you.