Excessive moderation sucking the fun out of AH

riffmongous

I was told to post this here by a moderator on After Hours, as it seems the mod response to criticism of over moderation is to lock the thread


About After Hours

Yeah. It does have a culture.

An egg shell walking culture where bans are the currency.

-51 thanks

Boards has become a much better place imo.

For many years I considered AH a cesspool where casual isms were the norm and stupid catch phrases were the order of the day.

It, and Boards has moved past the knuckle dragging nonsense and is much more enjoyable for it.

IMHO.

-4 thanks

IMO AH has become far, far too uptight. AH used to be a fairly South Park-ish kind of place but that was the point of it, and if you couldn't stand the heat you could just feck off.

This doesn't apply to Boards as a whole, I just find it bizarre that they've essentially forced sanitisation on a forum whose entire purpose was to be unsanitary.

-23 thanks

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057553588

Plenty of feedback for you in there.

kneemos

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/42zmd0/boardsie_admin_dav_we_didnt_start_banning/czef51d

riffmongous

kneemos wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/42zmd0/boardsie_admin_dav_we_didnt_start_banning/czef51d

Probably not the best source to quote from :P

kneemos

riffmongous wrote: »

Probably not the best source to quote from :P

Why?

Arghus

I think the lock and the move was a bit excessive - The thread was interesting and it hadn't yet degenerated into childish name-calling.

Reading about user's perceptions of the change - if any - of the prevailing "culture" of the site was fascinating and, like I said, was still fairly low-key. But I guess you could consider it feedback, strictly speaking.

The Backwards Man

I don't think the moderation is the problem, I'd say the poor mods heads' must be deeved (sorry about the Donegal language) in AH these days. The content comes from the posters, and it's up to the posters to make AH a fun place. There's too many agenda pushers and hobbyhorse riders making too much noise at the minute, and it's up to the regular users to drown them out imo. And a few eejits that don't know the difference between a bit of fun and being a dick, but you'll always get that I suppose.

It's not ideal at the minute, fair enough, but when you look at the state of other sites (and a couple of other forums on boards, to be fair) where any eejit with an internet connection has a chance to express themselves, it's not all that bad either.

padd b1975

There's a lot of greenhorn mods still finding their feet over there.
Although the point is arguably a valid one, I wouldn't rush to judge just yet.

riffmongous

Arghus wrote: »

I think the lock and the move was a bit excessive - The thread was interesting and it hadn't yet degenerated into childish name-calling.

Reading about user's perceptions of the change - if any - of the prevailing "culture" of the site was fascinating and, like I said, was still fairly low-key. But I guess you could consider it feedback, strictly speaking.

I'm glad one person got it, the thread was never even supposed to be about moderation but the answer was pretty clear I guess, indigenous catchphrases and memes have been replaced by authority and censorship :pac:

And outrage, no one mentioned it in the thread but it occurred to me later, if there is one trope (besides moderation) that you can take from AH of the last 2 years it's that

riffmongous

kneemos wrote: »

Why?

Because of the thread its from

Probably true though, AH generates a lot of traffic

Arghus

riffmongous wrote: »

I'm glad one person got it, the thread was never even supposed to be about moderation but the answer was pretty clear I guess, indigenous catchphrases and memes have been replaced by authority and censorship :pac:

And outrage, no one mentioned it in the thread but it occurred to me later, if there is one trope (besides moderation) that you can take from AH of the last 2 years it's that

Being honest I'm one of those people who doesn't really have an issue with the level of moderation on Boards, it varies from place to place, of course, but overall I think the certain level of supervision (for want of a better term) that goes on around here is a big contributory factor to why the site is one of the better and more interesting discussion sites on the net.

Usually, when I see a user railing against the tyranny of moderation, my reaction is there's probably an axe being ground somewhere, over someone, over something in the past.

And then I come across a thread that by it's very nature is going to contain some reference to moderation, but only in moderation - if you know what I mean... And then this same thread gets locked?

At best: it seems like a bit of a joke.

At worst: it makes me think some of those raging against the machine might have a point about the place.

Steve

Some mods have been here a while and are experienced, some are new, it will always be that way.

Boards has a pretty good (not perfect) oversight system to make sure it mostly works.

If you have a problem with moderation in any forum, and you feel you are at a stalemate, send it up the chain

Similarly, if a mod had a problem with someone and they cannot figure it out themselves then there is a lot of resources to help them.

Anyone (mod or user) who sticks their fingers in their ears and wails blindly will not last long here.

Steve

Some mods have been here a while and are experienced, some are new, it will always be that way.

Boards has a pretty good (not perfect) oversight system to make sure it mostly works.

If you have a problem with moderation in any forum, and you feel you are at a stalemate, send it up the chain

Similarly, if a mod had a problem with someone and they cannot figure it out themselves then there is a lot of resources to help them.

Anyone (mod or user) who sticks their fingers in their ears and wails blindly will not last long here.

The Hill Billy

Second Toughest in the Freshers - As you are permanently banned from After Hours you are not permitted to post in this thread as per the Feedback forum charter.

I've removed your posts. Please do not post in this thread again.

tHB

I wouldn't (obviously :P) agree that excessive moderation is the sole issue. I agree the place isn't as much craic as it once was but I've seen it from both sides.

The word "outrage" gets thrown around a lot, and here I am about to throw it around some more, but it is the biggest problem with the internet in general imo. Now, I'm the type of person who thinks that the world would be a better place if people were just nicer, and I don't think people should have a right to "Free speech" if that free speech is just hatred under another guise but I find lately people being excessively offended about every little thing. Everything that is posted is taken seriously, and posters seem to jump on things that were meant as light hearted and attack whoever posted it when it was, indeed, meant as light hearted. It's not just AH, or boards either, it's on Facebook, Twitter, news site comments sections. People getting offended on behalf of others - on behalf of people who likely aren't even offended themselves!

I've also found that light hearted threads slip off the front pages faster than those ones where there are lots of loud noises and no real discussion, and that comes back to the responsibility of the posters themselves. If you want a bit of craic in AH – create it, or at very least – keep it running when someone else does.

I wanted to make a general point moreso than a specific one, but just to jump on the issue of "banned phrases", that was something which was requested years back by the posters - not by the mods - and it was something that went to poll and it was voted by the posters - that those phrases be banned. The ban did what it set out to do and what the posters at the time wanted it to do - it stopped them being posted in every single thread. It's been a long long time since those phrases were actioned by the mods though, I asked quite a while ago that we stop carding for them as they were no longer an issue. Everyone agreed. And let's face it, sometimes "yore ma" is a fcuking legendary comeback (in my, immature, opinion).

Do threads get locked too quickly? I would say that at times I think they do, yes. However, this was something that just before I stepped down we were working on, is it resolved? I would say no, not quite, but I've no doubt that the point I made in the other thread still stands - if you feel a thread is unnecessarily locked - report the closing post and give your reasons, or PM a mod. On the latter option - I would say include a couple of mods on it so that you can see the opinion of a few, seeing as you didn’t agree with the opinion of the one who locked it!

My view on modding is that it should there be to take out nastiness, to keep the place tidy, but to leave the place to flow as fluidly as possible otherwise – and that’s what new mods have always been told and when I was much more active as a mod, something we strived for. We were always on the side of the poster, as long as a poster wasn’t being a dick.

We were often accused of being biased, and it was something that I thought about a fair amount in the few years I was there. The other lads would tell you that I would have had a very very strong view that if you can’t mod objectively then you shouldn’t mod at all and should ask one of your comods to look at it; something which I did a few times myself. However, having thought about it, I suppose if only one side of the argument are reporting posts then you could be forgiven for thinking we are only modding that side, when the reality is we’re just modding what’s been brought to our attention. Something to consider for mods and posters alike.

The longest standing AH mod has recently been made a Cmod, and I know for a fact that he wants the forum to be a place that people actually want to come and have a laugh, and wants to keep cards and bans to a minimum, he’s also pretty sound (in my opinion :P), and would happily take feedback on board from anyone who wants to give it.

TL; DR – Posters and mods are responsible for their forum

Apologies that that's a bit long and all over the place but I type as I think :P

Oh hai wibbs – you proud of my long post?

seamus

kneemos wrote: »

Why?

Because the Ireland forum on reddit is full of whingey cranks who mostly seem to have been banned from boards at one stage or another.

As for the OP, the number of thanks a post get isn't necessarily indicative that it's a majority or widely held opinion.

By definition, threads which complain about boards are going to attract people who want to complain about boards, and tend to repel others because they just become a whingefest. Thus, posts which agree with the theme will get more thanks, posts which don't will receive less.

This isn't a boards phenomenon by the way. I've seen it happen on reddit - you post two virtually identical responses in two threads on the same theme, but depending on the content of the OP, one reponse may get well upvoted, the other gets downvoted.

People read threads which they find interesting. When it's a tired old theme like, "boards is crap now", people tend to switch off after the first post and stop reading. I'm guilty of it myself.

Chips Lovell

Ever since I signed up to Boards (in 2002), people have been complaining that AH is just not the same as it used to be a few years ago. Go figure...

Cookie_Monster

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Ever since I signed up to Boards (in 2002), people have been complaining that AH is just not the same as it used to be a few years ago. Go figure...

BUT ITS NOT!!! AAARRRGGHHH!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Azalea

Overall I like AH - the discussions can be really interesting and there can be some very funny posts. The moderation isn't perfect but it can't be, to be fair - mostly it seems fine in my opinion. One thing on the moderation I notice however is that jokes can get penalised - they might be bad taste jokes but they are still just jokes. E.g. jokes that would be deemed sexist, like women should stay in the kitchen - I think the spirit in which they are intended should be considered: a joke like that is harmless. It's unoriginal and a bit tedious for sure, but it's also very unlikely the person posting something like that is genuinely having a go at women.

Whereas there are some people who constantly just post things to wind people up, and they don't seem to be admonished. Although maybe it is not an easy one to action, if they are constantly just skirting the line.

But I don't know, sometimes it seems like the priorities are wrong. The people I am referring to are just relentlessly popping in to say something inflammatory/fish for thanks and it drags a discussion down. Whereas the obvious trouble-makers can be filtered out easily IMO, but the former group seem to know how to stop just short of crossing the line, and are more of a nuisance.

Steve

AH is .. not my cup of tea.
Never has been.

Nothing wrong with it, I just like to be able to take in peoples points in a thread, chew it over, regurgitate it, get my facts straight, think about it more and then reply. AH moves way to fast to allow that.

Some people like that, some don't, boards caters for all

Harry Palmr

AH is packed with jobsworths and busybodies. The days when it was full of (very occasionally) snappy/witty/iconic/controversial posting is long over.

Its like the Opinion pages on the guardian now basically, modded to death.

Whosthis

Steve wrote: »

If you have a problem with moderation in any forum, and you feel you are at a stalemate, send it up the chain

I may be wrong here but I don't think this works. I've never seen a dispute resolution thread in which the "higher ups" have overturned a mods decision. Had a problem in a different sub recently and didn't bother bringing it to the higher ups because it appears to be a waste of time. It was only a temporary ban but I'll never post in the sub again because of a mods actions.

Steve

Whosthis wrote: »

I may be wrong here but I don't think this works. I've never seen a dispute resolution thread in which the "higher ups" have overturned a mods decision. Had a problem in a different sub recently and didn't bother bringing it to the higher ups because it appears to be a waste of time. It was only a temporary ban but I'll never post in the sub again because of a mods actions.

I've overturned mod decisions in the past, and so have other CMods and Admins.

It depends totally on the circumstances, I admit it's rare, but it does happen.

Corpus Twisty

I got a 1 month ban for calling a user a cissy. To me, that's harsh, very harsh. I thought "cissy" was pretty damn mild. It's gone to pot.

Steve

Harry Palmr wrote: »

AH is packed with jobsworths and busybodies. The days when it was full of (very occasionally) snappy/witty/iconic/controversial posting is long over.

Its like the Opinion pages on the guardian now basically, modded to death.

Like the days when you got banned cos Terry was on the beer?

Yeah, that was fair - it was also a lot of lol to watch..

Azalea

Corpus Twisty wrote: »

I got a 1 month ban for calling a user a cissy. To me, that's harsh, very harsh.

A month for that is ridiculous IMO. I read that comment; thought you were just messing.

Steve

Azalea wrote: »

A month for that is ridiculous IMO. I read that comment; thought you were just messing.

Second rule of boards, attack the post - not the poster.

That was always gonna end badly.

Zaph

Corpus Twisty wrote: »

I got a 1 month ban for calling a user a cissy. To me, that's harsh, very harsh. I thought "cissy" was pretty damn mild. It's gone to pot.

As you're currently banned from AH for a month, in accordance with the Feedback charter you are not permitted to post in this thread. Please refrain from doing so again. Thanks.

SterlingArcher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I .

The word "outrage" gets thrown around a lot, and here I am about to throw it around some more, but it is the biggest problem with the internet in general imo. Now, I'm the type of person who thinks that the world would be a better place if people were just nicer, and I don't think people should have a right to "Free speech" if that free speech is just hatred under another guise but I find lately people being excessively offended about every little thing. Everything that is posted is taken seriously, and posters seem to jump on things that were meant as light hearted and attack whoever posted it when it was, indeed, meant as light hearted. It's not just AH, or boards either, it's on Facebook, Twitter, news site comments sections. People getting offended on behalf of others - on behalf of people who likely aren't even offended themselves!

The people you speak of being outraged. I always picture them as the whingy crone lady from Donnie Darko who got typecast as the bible bashing head of the pta.

Ps my finger is numb from all the cutting of your original manuscript..

Eugene Norman

Zaph wrote: »

As you're currently banned from AH for a month, in accordance with the Feedback charter you are not permitted to post in this thread. Please refrain from doing so again. Thanks.

It says Users currently serving a ban from a forum with a duration over 1 month are not allowed to post on feedback threads concerning that forum

Over a month.

And yes, surely I can challenge moderation in a feedback thread about moderation, unless we go even more meta and have a feedback feedback forum.

pickarooney

And here comes the rules-lawyering, the absolute ****ing bane of boards.

KERSPLAT!

Corpus Twisty wrote: »

I got a 1 month ban for calling a user a cissy. To me, that's harsh, very harsh. I thought "cissy" was pretty damn mild. It's gone to pot.

You can continue to think you were banned for this reason but as I explained in PM, more than once, the one month ban is due to the multiple cards, infractions and bans across multiple accounts and is nothing to do with that post.