Excessive moderation sucking the fun out of AH

Beasty

Canadel wrote: »

I see dead people. And I see mods. I see 7 different mods on this page alone. Boards has become a discussion site where too often the main focus and discussion involves and surrounds its moderators.

I reckon 3 AH mods (one of whom is also a CMod) plus another CMod have contributed to this thread. In addition maybe a handful of Admins. There have been over 400 posts. Yes other mods have contributed to the discussion. However if you look at the "top 10" contributors to this thread (in terms of post count here) they have made about 50,000 posts in AH.

Fr_Dougal

Beasty wrote: »

The "office" who in turn are "administered" by the owners. If you want a say I suggest you put an offer in for the business....

I wasn't actually being serious, was referencing a big Feedback thread from some time ago, before your time.

Beasty

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I wasn't actually being serious, was referencing a big Feedback thread from some time ago, before your time.

I wasn't being serious about you putting an offer in. Might be prepared to go halves though ....

looksee

Canadel wrote: »

I see dead people. And I see mods. I see 7 different mods on this page alone. Boards has become a discussion site where too often the main focus and discussion involves and surrounds its moderators. You only have to read through the other 10 pages of this thread to see how revered mods are, mostly amongst themselves. Which is fine, but there is a divide between many regular posters and moderators, hence the existence of this thread. Mods are vital, and I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with the idea of moderation, but the excessive moderation of After Hours is destroying what is undoubtedly the best and most important forum on Boards.ie. And that is a tremendous shame.

This thread was created because posters genuinely care about After Hours, and that a mod has posted on this very page that they are closing the thread, is evidence enough that this is something that can't be resolved when this divide exists between regulars and mods. There will always be a power divide, but when that power becomes unpredictable and celebratory, it becomes unreasonable.

I have posted a good few times in this thread, and I have in fact agreed with points from regular posters on several occasions. I am not posting on this thread as a mod, I am posting as a user. I have no more clout than you when I am posting in other than my 'own' forums. And even then most of the time I am posting as a user rather than a mod.

We all joined Boards because we enjoyed posting here. We still enjoy posting here, regardless of whether we are mods. There is no advantage or satisfaction from forums becoming stale and over moderated. If there are a high proportion of mods on this thread it just demonstrates interest; no one sent round a memo saying 'all mods report to Feedback, we have a rebel poster needs squashing'. If this matter of over-moderation on AH were of serious concern to the rest of the Boards population, more people would have looked in and contributed; the thread appeared on the front page numerous times.

As to closing the thread, it has served its purpose, anyone who wants to contribute has done so. Now the next stage can happen. Presumably the AH mods and relevant Admins will discuss it - I don't actually know, its not my business. I do know that user opinions are taken seriously and will be considered. And really, that's all that can be asked for, or expected.

Steve

Before the lock, and in the absence of DeVore, I'd just like to post a polite reminder that boards is not a democracy. Never has been, and never will be.

The mod / cmod / admin hierarchy and oversight system here works - mostly - and I don't see any reason to change that. The fact that this thread has been allowed to continue so long is testament to that.

aaronjumper

Seems to go in cycles. Posters give out that the rules are too lax so mods clamp down. Posters say it is sterile and boring mods relax.
Not enough moderation so there is another clamp down etc. You get what you ask for.

I think that if you're worried about being banned for a post then don't post or change it slightly.
I've been taking the mick over there a few years now and have managed not to run a afoul of posters or mods.
It isn't that hard to have fun without ripping the piss out of people.

Zaph

Canadel wrote: »

I see dead people. And I see mods. I see 7 different mods on this page alone. Boards has become a discussion site where too often the main focus and discussion involves and surrounds its moderators. You only have to read through the other 10 pages of this thread to see how revered mods are, mostly amongst themselves. Which is fine, but there is a divide between many regular posters and moderators, hence the existence of this thread. Mods are vital, and I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with the idea of moderation, but the excessive moderation of After Hours is destroying what is undoubtedly the best and most important forum on Boards.ie. And that is a tremendous shame.

This thread was created because posters genuinely care about After Hours, and that a mod has posted on this very page that they are closing the thread, is evidence enough that this is something that can't be resolved when this divide exists between regulars and mods. There will always be a power divide, but when that power becomes unpredictable and celebratory, it becomes unreasonable.

As you're permanently banned from AH, as per the Feedback charter you are not permitted to contribute to this thread. Please don't post in it again.

Canadel

Zaph wrote: »

As you're permanently banned from AH, as per the Feedback charter you are not permitted to contribute to this thread. Please don't post in it again.

1. I'm not permanently banned from After Hours.

2. Game, Set & Moderators.

Canadel

Steve wrote: »

I'd just like to post a polite reminder that boards is not a democracy. Never has been, and never will be.

I don't think anyone needs reminding of that.

Zaph

Canadel wrote: »

1. I'm not permanently banned from After Hours.

2. Game, Set & Moderators.

According to your profile you are, so please do not post in this thread again until I can clarify this with the AH mods.

Cookie_Monster

Steve wrote: »

Before the lock, and in the absence of DeVore, I'd just like to post a polite reminder that boards is not a democracy. Never has been, and never will be.

The mod / cmod / admin hierarchy and oversight system here works - mostly - and I don't see any reason to change that. The fact that this thread has been allowed to continue so long is testament to that.

ahh but it is. the users can vote with their feet and leave, the ad revenue collapses and the site dies...

of course that is "the overly dramatic if PBP suddenly got into government" type end of the draw but if the site does start to decline because people feel its not what the want it to be anymore that's the ultimate outcome.

Martypants1

looksee wrote: »

As to closing the thread, it has served its purpose, anyone who wants to contribute has done so. Now the next stage can happen. Presumably the AH mods and relevant Admins will discuss it - I don't actually know, its not my business. I do know that user opinions are taken seriously and will be considered. And really, that's all that can be asked for, or expected.

Nothing will happen.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ahh but it is. the users can vote with their feet and leave, the ad revenue collapses and the site dies...

of course that is "the overly dramatic if PBP suddenly got into government" type end of the draw but if the site does start to decline because people feel its not what the want it to be anymore that's the ultimate outcome.

It's already happening.

I had a look at the unique users for the last year. It's the same as last year and in business, if you're not growing you're dying. In fact, if you look at wikipedia, the alexa rank is 5129 and on today on alexa the rank is 7500.

See this thread is an example of what's not good about AH any more. That's a thread that could be funny and lighthearted, and is for the mostpart, but there have to always be the ones who get bitchy (for want of a better phrase) and try to turn the thread into something nasty when that's not what it needs to be or should be. There are some funny posts in it, but then there's the folk who take offence to the lighthearted comments and you can spot the tone of their replies that they mean what they're saying, rather than just trying to have a laugh. Then there's the one or two who are just trolling and trying to wind people up. You'll then have the ones who try to pull the nasty posters up on what they're saying, instead of just ignoring them, and the thread will eventually be people shouting YOU'RE WRONG at one another.

No mod intervention either, (not saying there should be at all) so in that example it's not the mods sucking the fun out of AH, but posters doing it themselves. That's how a lot of threads seem to go these days. Or maybe it was always the way, and I've been in denial, that's entirely possible.

looksee

Martypants1 wrote: »

Nothing will happen.



It's already happening.

I had a look at the unique users for the last year. It's the same as last year and in business, if you're not growing you're dying. In fact, if you look at wikipedia, the alexa rank is 5129 and on today on alexa the rank is 7500.

Ah for heavens sake, I know you are desperate to prove your point, but Boards has long been punching well above its weight for a long time. Of course numbers have been down for the last couple of weeks, it has had serious problems as a result of a deliberate attack from outside. It will need work to build it back up, but why produce another lad bible or reddit - Boards has a usp, why throw it away to accommodate the very few people who could just go to reddit if that is what they want.

Buona Fortuna

I've generally found threads on AH go a bit nutty by the 100 post mark.

- someone's keeping on about their hobby horse, travellers, dole, immigrants, blah
- a couple are having a ding dong about something obscure
- the OP has been long forgotten.
- BF unsubscribes

Dyr

Perhaps the feedback forum should be renamed "the wagon circle"

KomradeBishop

Steve wrote: »

Before the lock, and in the absence of DeVore, I'd just like to post a polite reminder that boards is not a democracy. Never has been, and never will be.

The mod / cmod / admin hierarchy and oversight system here works - mostly - and I don't see any reason to change that. The fact that this thread has been allowed to continue so long is testament to that.

Neither is it a dictatorship - Boards is held to account by its userbase, the people who make the site what it is - something acknowledged by Boards through the existence of Feedback/DRP/Prison and this thread.

This thread may be past the point of useful discussion that isn't just a repeat of what was said earlier, but nobody is doing us a favour or is being benevolently tolerant, in 'allowing' it to stay open - it stays open because, up to now, there has been useful feedback to gain from it, and because if Boards wants to appear accountable to its userbase (which they do), they wouldn't close a thread like this absent cause (such as discussion having run its course), as it'd harm that appearance.

The Hill Billy

As mentioned earlier - this feedback thread will be closed tonight. The points made thus far will be take & discussed & if feasible solutions are identified they will be implemented.

Open-ended feedback threads end up with the same ol' points being rehashed. A deadline tends to concentrate the mind. When the thread is closed later, should someone come up with some startling new info - they can drop me a PM.

tHB

MadDog76

The Hill Billy wrote: »

As mentioned earlier - this feedback thread will be closed tonight. The points made thus far will be take & discussed & if feasible solutions are identified they will be implemented.

Open-ended feedback threads end up with the same ol' points being rehashed. A deadline tends to concentrate the mind. When the thread is closed later, should someone come up with some startling new info - they can drop me a PM.

tHB

Hey Billy, will there be a post outlining any changes or lack of changes?

Also, any idea what the time-frame will be if/when we will be informed?

Thanks.

The Hill Billy

Any changes will be evident in the forum itself when the time comes.

As for a timeframe - nope. You've seen how long it has taken for members to give feedback. Now the wheat needs to be split from the chaff, & then we start looking at feasible options to address the issues.

tHB

K-9

aaronjumper wrote: »

Seems to go in cycles. Posters give out that the rules are too lax so mods clamp down. Posters say it is sterile and boring mods relax.
Not enough moderation so there is another clamp down etc. You get what you ask for.

I think that if you're worried about being banned for a post then don't post or change it slightly.
I've been taking the mick over there a few years now and have managed not to run a afoul of posters or mods.
It isn't that hard to have fun without ripping the piss out of people.

And plenty still do take the piss out of people and manage to remain not banned or not get cards!

weisses

K-9 wrote: »

And plenty still do take the piss out of people and manage to remain not banned or not get cards!

Some make it an art to evade being sanctioned by using just the right wording

riffmongous

weisses wrote: »

Some make it an art to evade being sanctioned by using just the right wording

Bonus points if you get the other person banned instead

Renegade Mechanic

oscarBravo wrote: »

I know someone who isn't bothered by getting soaked to the skin whenever it rains. Therefore anyone who wears a raincoat is a pathetic weakling.

That's a pretty crap argument in fairness.

oscarBravo wrote: »

This idea that, because you personally aren't troubled by what other people say on the Internet, then anyone should be allowed to say anything they want on the Internet, is such a bizarrely self-centred one that it quite frankly surprises me that anyone will say it out loud.

Self centred I am not. In fact I'd be a hell of a lot better off if I was. That you think it is actually self centred is what's bizarre, here. Mabye because I personally have dealt with enough actual and real problems in everyday life, that it's become immensely difficult for me to appreciate how anything - that can be solved by closing the screen - can honestly be considered something even remotely worth caring about. And I'm not even slightly special in that regard, I'm pretty sure I'm a drop in the ocean of the amount of people who feel that way.
Priorities have shifty to absolutely awful territory.
People cry over spilled milk - sometimes literally - instead mopping up and getting the bottle back out of the fridge..

Insect Overlord

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I'd go as far as say that there's too much crappy nonsense threads in AH, such as interview the person above/below you. Those sort of threads belong in The Cuckoos Nest or Clearasil and Hormones.

I'd just like to point out that Clearasil & Hormones is absolutely not the kind of forum for "crappy nonsense". It's been rather quiet for the last two years or so, but the standard of discussion in the forum was fantastic while it was busy.

As for the Cuckoo's Nest? That place used to be the safe haven from/intellectual antithesis of After Hours. It's lost its way as its once great leaders drifted away for various reasons. Amp, Sarky, Rozabeez, Sparky, randylonghorn, even Tar hasn't posted there in ages. The again, plenty of people would probably have criticised that forum for being "too cliquey" or other such nonsense.

There's no way to please all of the people all of the time. The "good old days" of After Hours were back when most posters recognised each others' names and avatars and it was still possible to organise a Beers and feel like you'd know something about most of the people at it. These days, social chat/off-topic discussion between friends is banned because a few posters complained about feeling left out. Ye can't win either way!

The Hill Billy

riffmongous wrote: »

Bonus points if you get the other person banned instead

It is precisely this sort of attitude that has resulted in what you deem to be 'excessive' moderation.

Just sayin'.

Overheal

I only have one thing to say about this:

Whoops for Admin

riffmongous

The Hill Billy wrote: »

It is precisely this sort of attitude that has resulted in what you deem to be 'excessive' moderation.

Just sayin'.

/joke :rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

In fact I'd go as far as say that there's too much crappy nonsense threads in AH, such as interview the person above/below you...

I fully agree that nonsense threads like 'write the first word that comes to mind after the last one' etc have ruined AH and undermined what it is all about. Likewise news dumps, and RIP threads, with little more to be said than the news item itself are rather pointless. AH has become predicable,with the same old posters arguing the same old points day after day and often arguing just for the sake of arguing.

All in all though the Mods do a good job with the material they have to work with. They seem to walk the thin line well.

Pink Fairy

Samir Swift Pinkeye wrote: »

I fully agree that nonsense threads like 'write the first word that comes to mind after the last one' etc have ruined AH and undermined what it is all about. Likewise news dumps, and RIP threads, with little more to be said than the news item itself are rather pointless. AH has become predicable,with the same old posters arguing the same old points day after day and often arguing just for the sake of arguing.

All in all though the Mods do a good job with the material they have to work with. They seem to walk the thin line well.

No issue with the RIP threads or even the news dump threads, they are organic and grow naturally according to the mood of the contributors. Sometimes these can be the best reads