Excessive moderation sucking the fun out of AH

Edward Hopper

If you want the fun sucked out of your boards life, mod a busy forum. You over moderate, people whine, you don't moderate enough, people whine. People just f#ckin whine.


I imagine.

beauf

Whosthis wrote: »

I may be wrong here but I don't think this works. I've never seen a dispute resolution thread in which the "higher ups" have overturned a mods decision. Had a problem in a different sub recently and didn't bother bringing it to the higher ups because it appears to be a waste of time. It was only a temporary ban but I'll never post in the sub again because of a mods actions.

I agree its pretty pointless.

For me Moderation is so illogical on some forums I just avoid that forum. AH is one of those.

Similarly on some forums the moderation is bias to one side that they in effect shut down any counter discussion. And likewise I would avoid that forum.

Which is why some forums seem to be very one sided in their content and not a good source of information.

But once you realise this and stay out of those forums you generally avoid the attention of the mods. Obviously the mods have a tough job as some posters are just out to cause trouble.

I don't think the moderation has got that bad.. I mean sometimes it can be overzealous, but what's definitely gotten worse is the userbase. As someone who's been here over a decade (holy f*ck), I've seen it go from what was one of the funniest places to be, to being full of uptight, over sensitive, out to be offended, so becomes offended, triggered users? So the moderation team has to react to that, because boards will be nothing without users and that's their userbase now.

MadDog76

Deleted User wrote: »

The longest standing AH mod has recently been made a Cmod, and I know for a fact that he wants the forum to be a place that people actually want to come and have a laugh, and wants to keep cards and bans to a minimum, he’s also pretty sound (in my opinion :P), and would happily take feedback on board from anyone who wants to give it.

Which Mod/Cmod are you referring to? It'd be useful to know who to turn to if a Poster feels they are being treated unfairly in AH.

K-9

Azalea wrote: »

Overall I like AH - the discussions can be really interesting and there can be some very funny posts. The moderation isn't perfect but it can't be, to be fair - mostly it seems fine in my opinion. One thing on the moderation I notice however is that jokes can get penalised - they might be bad taste jokes but they are still just jokes. E.g. jokes that would be deemed sexist, like women should stay in the kitchen - I think the spirit in which they are intended should be considered: a joke like that is harmless. It's unoriginal and a bit tedious for sure, but it's also very unlikely the person posting something like that is genuinely having a go at women.

Whereas there are some people who constantly just post things to wind people up, and they don't seem to be admonished. Although maybe it is not an easy one to action, if they are constantly just skirting the line.

But I don't know, sometimes it seems like the priorities are wrong. The people I am referring to are just relentlessly popping in to say something inflammatory/fish for thanks and it drags a discussion down. Whereas the obvious trouble-makers can be filtered out easily IMO, but the former group seem to know how to stop just short of crossing the line, and are more of a nuisance.

With the ones who skirt the line it takes more time and attention to get to the bottom of it. Also, what maybe an annoying poster to you might be that edgy/controversial poster that others want more of.

Boom_Bap

MadDog76 wrote: »

Which Mod/Cmod are you referring to? It'd be useful to know who to turn to if a Poster feels they are being treated unfairly in AH.

That would be KERSPLAT! that is the CMod.

K-9

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

You can continue to think you were banned for this reason but as I explained in PM, more than once, the one month ban is due to the multiple cards, infractions and bans across multiple accounts and is nothing to do with that post.

You mean he wasn't banned for calling someone a cissy?

seamus

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It says Users currently serving a ban from a forum with a duration over 1 month are not allowed to post on feedback threads concerning that forum

Over a month.

And yes, surely I can challenge moderation in a feedback thread about moderation, unless we go even more meta and have a feedback feedback forum.

We should solve this issue by extending his ban by another month.

It's bull**** like this that's sucking the fun out of AH. Go back to your model railway you dull pedant.

Penn

Whosthis wrote: »

I may be wrong here but I don't think this works. I've never seen a dispute resolution thread in which the "higher ups" have overturned a mods decision.

It does happen. I've had mod decisions I've made overturned by CMods/Admin as a result of DRP threads, and as a CMod I've overturned some mod decisions.

The reason most DRPs aren't overturned is because in most cases, the mod was right.

MadDog76

Boom_Bap wrote: »

That would be KERSPLAT! that is the CMod.

Thanks Boom .......... I'd have to agree with Whoops opinion of KER, he has always come across as a reasonable enough Mod to me ......... and that's coming from someone who's received an Infraction from him in AH in the past!!

EDIT: I deserved that particular Infraction btw.

4zn76tysfajdxp

As far as I'm concerned, AH hasn't changed at all. It's always been full of whingers.

KERSPLAT!

Whoops pretty much summed it up, what follows will probably just muddy the water

All AH mods welcome feedback. The reason we mod the forum is because we enjoy the forum and want to see it grow. We want it to be a fun place for users where you can go and have the craic but at the same time if you have a serious issue you can fire up a thread and expect some decent responses.

With regards to locking threads. This is something we are actively working on and have been for a few months now. Some threads will still be locked, as they will be in any forum, but we do try to leave as many threads open as possible. Sometimes though, it just isn't possible. If you feel a thread has been locked and shouldn't have been, please PM the mod who locked it and if you're unhappy with their response, please PM me and I'll look into it.

On the banned phrases, this isn't something we actively mod at the moment. I don't recall anyone being actioned for using either of the two phrases mentioned in my time modding AH. I know it is mentioned in the charter so I'll speak to the mods about maybe removing it.

Sometimes you may feel that we are harsh or the forum is over modded but bear in mind some of the issues we have to deal with. Most posters are fine and we never have any issue with them but there are some trouble makers, as you are all aware I'm sure, and our 'job' is to try keep the forum flowing, clean up any messes and stop the trouble makers from, well, causing trouble. We have some posters who think they can say what they want and face no repercussions and then we have others that jump on every single post, we have to use our best judgement to decide what is a joke and what is not. We don't always get it right but we try.

The AH mod forum, I would say, is the busiest mod forum on boards and I think the reason for this is not just because it's a really busy forum but because we discuss so many reports and issues and try to ensure that the call we're making is the right one.

I would ask that if anyone has any issues or feedback with/for AH, feel free to PM me. I want AH to be fun, everyone to have the craic, etc as much as the next person, your feedback can help achieve that.

TL;DR

We're trying

MadDog76

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

All AH mods welcome feedback. The reason we mod the forum is because we enjoy the forum and want to see it grow. We want it to be a fun place for users where you can go and have the craic but at the same time if you have a serious issue you can fire up a thread and expect some decent responses.

I don't know if you're 100% correct with that statement, I can understand why you'd say that (or even think it) but there is an undeniable and sizeable opinion that there is excessive moderation in AH .......... that comes from somewhere that can't be dismissed or just blamed on a "certain kind of Poster" who have an axe to grind.

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I would ask that if anyone has any issues or feedback with/for AH, feel free to PM me. I want AH to be fun, everyone to have the craic, etc as much as the next person, your feedback can help achieve that.

A welcome offer and duly noted!

riffmongous

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the moderation has got that bad.. I mean sometimes it can be overzealous, but what's definitely gotten worse is the userbase. As someone who's been here over a decade (holy f*ck), I've seen it go from what was one of the funniest places to be, to being full of uptight, over sensitive, out to be offended, so becomes offended, triggered users? So the moderation team has to react to that, because boards will be nothing without users and that's their userbase now.

But those people would never have survived in the old AH, nor would they have wanted to go there in the first place, at some some point though the pendulum swung in their favour. Probably as a slippery slope from cutting out the overt sexism that the place used to be riddled with to people complaining about anything seen as 'offensive'. Not necessarily a bad thing as AH is now a much better place to post.. but not to read imo.

And just on the issue of banned phrases, my original point wasn't about phrases being banned but rather that they are disappearing (even ones that weren't banned like atari jaguar) and seemingly being replaced by nothing, not a complaint just an observation

Whosthis

One other thing I've come across in AH with regards to threads being locked is somebody posts a new thread, mod locks thread and says there's already a thread, use the search function post there.

Then you have the posters that use the search function and post in an old thread, mod locks thread and says don't bring up old thread post a new one.

You can't win, maybe all threads that haven't been posted in for say 6 months should automatically lock at least then you only have one consistent rule

Harry Palmr

Steve wrote: »

Like the days when you got banned cos Terry was on the beer?

Yeah, that was fair - it was also a lot of lol to watch..

Terry was a joke of a moderator, modded me cos he didn't like my passport basically.

KomradeBishop

pickarooney wrote: »

And here comes the rules-lawyering, the absolute ****ing bane of boards.

In fairness, 'rules lawyering' is an invalid criticism of posters. If something is technically within the rules, it's not 'rules lawyering' to point that out - in fact, it's not uncommon for mods to 'rules lawyer' the crap out of posters, by taking a technicality in the rules (or re-interpreting rules to suit their own decision), and then insisting on a 'computer says no' strict adherence to the newly interpreted rules.

A lot of the time I've seen the 'rules lawyering' term brought out, it has been used to dismiss legitimate criticism from posters - one among many very self-serving arguments that mods trot out from time to time.

Striking a balance with moderation and the rules is hard, and technicalities which let posters evade the spirit of a rule, can be a pain in the hole - agreed - but leave terms like 'rules lawyering' out of it, as that's an easily abused term for dismissing valid criticism, and even abusable for branding a poster with legitimate complaints, as a troublemaker, to eye them up for more mod action.

Sheep Lover

KomradeBishop wrote: »

In fairness, 'rules lawyering' is an invalid criticism of posters. If something is technically within the rules, it's not 'rules lawyering' to point that out - in fact, it's not uncommon for mods to 'rules lawyer' the crap out of posters, by taking a technicality in the rules (or re-interpreting rules to suit their own decision), and then insisting on a 'computer says no' strict adherence to the newly interpreted rules.

A lot of the time I've seen the 'rules lawyering' term brought out, it has been used to dismiss legitimate criticism from posters - one among many very self-serving arguments that mods trot out from time to time.

Or the term "don't be a d1ck" used as a reason for banning. Quite a ambiguous rule that can be used in virtually any circumstance a mod deems appropriate.

Eugene Norman

seamus wrote: »

We should solve this issue by extending his ban by another month.

It's bull**** like this that's sucking the fun out of AH. Go back to your model railway you dull pedant.

Jesus wept. I'd report that post except you are clearly here to suck up to the mods. And can apparantly get away with abuse in feedback.

However a few remedial explanations.

1) this isn't AH. It's the feedback forum.
2) the thread is about over moderation.
3) it is over moderation that is destroying AH not attacking mod decisions (which is illegal in AH.)
4) clearly the mod was over-modding just as this thread as AH is being over- modded.

Now warm up that 60 ish IQ and do try and keep up with what this thread is about.

Eugene Norman

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Or the term "don't be a d1ck" used as a reason for banning. Quite a ambiguous rule that can be used in virtually any circumstance a mod deems appropriate.

Absolutely.

Azalea

seamus wrote: »

We should solve this issue by extending his ban by another month.

It's bull**** like this that's sucking the fun out of AH. Go back to your model railway you dull pedant.

Crikey. Personal abuse thanked by a mod. Is it any wonder people get the impression there is favouritism?

Azalea

Whosthis wrote: »

One other thing I've come across in AH with regards to threads being locked is somebody posts a new thread, mod locks thread and says there's already a thread, use the search function post there.

Then you have the posters that use the search function and post in an old thread, mod locks thread and says don't bring up old thread post a new one.

You can't win, maybe all threads that haven't been posted in for say 6 months should automatically lock at least then you only have one consistent rule

I think the search function suggestion refers to threads discussing topical events. I'd say it can irk a bit when a new thread is opened about a topic already under discussion on the same forum. It demonstrates zero effort to do a search.

What I don't agree with is locking bumped threads about general topics that aren't out of date.

RadiationKing

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the moderation has got that bad.. I mean sometimes it can be overzealous, but what's definitely gotten worse is the userbase. As someone who's been here over a decade (holy f*ck), I've seen it go from what was one of the funniest places to be, to being full of uptight, over sensitive, out to be offended, so becomes offended, triggered users? So the moderation team has to react to that, because boards will be nothing without users and that's their userbase now.

I've been here a few years longer than yourself and I'd be of the opposite opinion - AH's userbase has gone to the absolute dogs. It hit its hayday a couple of years back when the torture fantasies were in every crime thread and people were almost trying to one-up each other.

People will joke about "I remember when this was all just green fields" but they're not that far off. Back then, Boards really was much, much quieter. The rules we have in place now weren't always in place. Know why? Because the userbase is ****. Because some people had to come to Feedback and talk about issues (sexism in AH, anyone?) that had become issues because of the increase of posters looking to generally be assholes and then whinge and complain if anyone dared to take issue with their behaviour. The rules are a response to the worsening of the userbase.

Even your post is indicative of that - talking about people looking for offence. Cop the **** on, tbh. You don't exactly have to look far on AH to find crap, just dip into any thread that deals with any issue that's remotely topical.

Ever since the "PC gone mad" types moved in and took over, the forum's been like that. It's not fun because everything is political, everything is someone looking for offence, everything's about race or gender or sexuality or whatever the whipping boy du jour is.

And before the usual sorts pop up and claim this is an example of how you can't talk about those tings, two things - one, criticism doesn't magically stop your fingers from working your keyboard (I love it when people who complain about offence are themselves terminally offended by criticism :pac:), maybe take a little of your own advice and thicken your skin up a little; two, there's "talking about" and then there's "incessant bull****ting about".

I mean in a completely unrelated thread, I've seen someone take a shot at Muslims because hey, that's the done thing on AH nowadays.

People aren't looking to have fun, they're not looking to make jokes, they're looking to push agendas and on the few occasions they're pulled up, here we are with them complaining about it.

If you want to blame anyone for the state of AH then blame yourselves.

Whosthis

Azalea wrote: »

I think the search function suggestion refers to threads discussing topical events. I'd say it can irk a bit when a new thread us opened about a topic already under discussion on the same forum. It demonstrates zero effort to do a search.

Sometimes that's what it refers to but not always.

K-9

Ah the Seamus post was funny because it is sooo atypical of him, plus I was actually wondering recently why we rarely hear or see much about model train sets anymore, used to be a big thing in the 80's. Train spotters still exist right?

Then I read an article that there is a huge model railway set so big that it is now on Google Street view.

But to make it thread appropriate, Seamus's post was exactly like the old AH, so why people are getting offended by it on a thread bemoaning the fall of the old AH, is typical of the new AH.

For me, the people who get offended easily by those easily offended is killing the place. The politics cafe was opened up for political threads, maybe we need a battle of the feminists vs. masculists cafe et al, or just send them to the recycling bin and let them carry on there.

prinzeugen

Anti cycle threads get closed. AH is great but too many topics get closed too quickly, not giving the OP a chance to reply.

_Tombstone_

K-9 wrote: »

But to make it thread appropriate, Seamus's post was exactly like the old AH, so why people are getting offended by it on a thread bemoaning the fall of the old AH, is typical of the new AH.

No. Thats just silly talk now.

Corpus Twisty

Azalea wrote: »

A month for that is ridiculous IMO. I read that comment; thought you were just messing.

I was -I didn't even give it a second thought - just AH banter. But there you go. The times they are a changing..for the duller. Ah well.

Steve

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Terry was a joke of a moderator, modded me cos he didn't like my passport basically.

He wasn't a mod there in 2014 so couldn't have.

Did you create a new account to get around a ban by any chance?

riffmongous

Take it to thunderdome lads