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Excessive moderation sucking the fun out of AH

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    #182
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Penn wrote: »
    It was clear, to me anyway and doubtless to others, what the point of seamus' post was. Agree or disagree with how he made that point, mod discretion allows the mods to assess the situation and not have to issue mod actions where they feel it isn't warranted.

    And therein lies the problem ........... one Mod might see it as a joke while another won't .......... a Poster might be joking or he may hide behind a "joke" ......... Posters may look at an unactioned abusive post and wonder why that post is acceptable ......... Posters make look at an actioned post and wonder why a joke post was actioned .......... all very confusing unless you apply an "attack the post, not the poster" rule and enforce it.


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    #183
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    And that's where the phrase "rules lawyering" comes from.

    Ever heard the "don't be a dick" phrase?


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    #184
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Ever heard the "don't be a dick" phrase?

    It was all downhill after that was removed due to the "perpetually outraged" brigade. Never used it but sad day when it was gone.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #185
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    And therein lies the problem ........... one Mod might see it as a joke while another won't .......... a Poster might be joking or he may hide behind a "joke" ......... Posters may look at an unactioned abusive post and wonder why that post is acceptable ......... Posters make look at an actioned post and wonder why a joke post was actioned .......... all very confusing unless you apply an "attack the post, not the poster" rule and enforce it.

    Therein lies the problem, but we're coming to different solutions on how to solve it. Your way means that mods who know the poster is joking and think that the joke is obvious should card/ban the poster. I refer back to my earlier post today:
    Penn wrote: »
    Now that's excessive moderation!


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    #186
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Penn wrote: »
    As per my post above (posted while you were typing this but I'll reiterate regardless), the rules are the rules. It's up to the mods to enforce those rules. And most importantly, it's up to the mods to use their discretion to judge posts on their own basis, take a holistic view of everything, and apply the rules or not as they see fit. There are many factors to be taken into account. The rules cannot and should not be black and white.

    If someone says they're gay and I respond "You disgust me", I should be banned. If someone says they dip a ham salad sandwich into their tea while eating it and I respond "You disgust me", I shouldn't be banned. Exact same comment, but tone, context and intent are all different. (Side note - That ham salad sandwich thing isn't a random thing I made up. Old guy I used to work with did it. And he did disgust me.)



    As per above, the rules cannot be applied black & white. 50 shades of grey an' all that jazz. What was obviously a joke to some of us, was personal abuse to others. In the words of Scroobius Pip: "What I thought were quite clear messages were taken to unusual extremes / My teachings taken out of context to meet the agendas of others / Interpretations taken in different ways and hidden meanings discovered"

    You see personal abuse in his post. I don't. Who's right? Dunno. It's the mods who decide. Hence, Mod Discretion.



    Posters should be treated the same. The exact same. And that exact same way dictates that the posters' history is taken into consideration. If seamus was a regular troublemaker, constantly getting banned for personal abuse and making similar comments, it'd be a sign that his post was personal abuse. If he rarely, if ever, gets in trouble, it'd be a sign that he likely wasn't trying to attack the poster.

    So Mods may be randomly actioning Posters because they didn't realise their posts were jokes which in turn means a Poster with a sense of humour is racking up an undeserved Bad Record on Boards ........... meanwhile Seamus is posting whatever he likes because they're "jokes" and his Record on Boards remains clean so he's even more unlikely to be actioned against when he posts his rule-breaking "jokes".

    That's the system currently in place, that's the system currently being questioned in this thread ........ and your feedback seems to be "as you were people" ........ great.


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    #187
    Chorus_suck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 487 ✭✭Chorus_suck


    This post has been deleted.


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    #188
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    K-9 wrote: »
    It was all downhill after that was removed due to the "perpetually outraged" brigade. Never used it but sad day when it was gone.

    Is it gone? Genuinely a good move, never have I ever seen that being used by a mod and it calms a situation. It's an inflammatory term and is best left in the bin


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    #189
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Penn wrote: »
    Therein lies the problem, but we're coming to different solutions on how to solve it. Your way means that mods who know the poster is joking and think that the joke is obvious should card/ban the poster. I refer back to my earlier post today:

    Ok, fair point ........... but what happens when a Poster is joking but the Mod doesn't know/realise he's joking and refuses to back down on his decision to action the post/poster?


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    #190
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,702 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Ok, fair point ........... but what happens when a Poster is joking but the Mod doesn't know/realise he's joking and refuses to back down on his decision to action the post/poster?

    If a poster is carded/banned for a joke, they can appeal it and explain their case to the mod/cmod/admin who will assess it. Most mods, if they believe the poster is genuine, will simply "Alright, well be more mindful of how such posts may be interpreted in future" and rescind the mod action.

    That's the system currently in place. There are numerous ways to appeal mod actions taken against you. If the mod refuses to lift it, Cmod. If the Cmod refuses to lift it, Admin. If the Admin refuse to lift it, Reddit.


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    #191
    Classic Rock Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 155 ✭✭Classic Rock Man


    Uhh boards.ie doesn't have to conform to your ideals and the mods can do what they want with the powers they have.

    Just leave if you dont like it.


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    #192
    Chorus_suck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 487 ✭✭Chorus_suck


    This post has been deleted.


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    #193
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Classic Rock Man wrote: »
    Uhh boards.ie doesn't have to conform to your ideals and the mods can do what they want with the powers they have.

    Just leave if you dont like it.

    Thats a smart thing to say on a site thats growing in activity not shrinking (at least in activity levels I would guess numbers of users as high as ever)


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    #194
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Penn wrote: »
    If a poster is carded/banned for a joke, they can appeal it and explain their case to the mod/cmod/admin who will assess it. Most mods, if they believe the poster is genuine, will simply "Alright, well be more mindful of how such posts may be interpreted in future" and rescind the mod action.

    That's the system currently in place. There are numerous ways to appeal mod actions taken against you.

    I won't go into the obvious flaws in that process too deeply here as it'll drag the thread off-topic but I will it's hit & miss and really depends on who's dealing with your appeal ......... I know the Mods/Cmods/Admins who will treat you fairly but it's the luck of the draw who deals with your appeal because I also know certain Mods/Cmods/Admins that will never treat you right if it means going against "their own" ........ both types have contributed to this thread and they stick out a mile.


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    #195
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Classic Rock Man wrote: »
    Uhh boards.ie doesn't have to conform to your ideals and the mods can do what they want with the powers they have.

    Just leave if you dont like it.

    You should be immediately promoted to Admin status ........... you should also never post in the Feedback Forum again! :)


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    #196
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    I have to say I'm disappointed (but not surprised) the Sky Sports News presenter thread was closed, it was slowing down momentum anyway and would have died off down the pages soon enough, but it was closed by a mod.


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    #197
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Did you PM the mod and ask why it was closed and ask for it to be reopened?


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    #198
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    RadiationKing wrote: »
    If you want to blame anyone for the state of AH then blame yourselves.

    I do blame yourselves.

    If you ask me it all went wrong when <redacted> was handed the keys to the reigns to the wheel of AH and proceeded to drive it off the deep end of a short pier. The Mick Wallace of boards mods.

    But that's not what I want to talk about. At the risk of repeating myself (and no, this is not about the canteen, which I still can't bloody find) there's a little Close Account feature on boards that has allowed the arse to fall out of its userbase. Yeah, I know it was data commissioned by the Data Commissioner, but if you ask me all y'all ought march into his little office, stretch out your right arm (or left, this issue crosses the political divide), extend your middle finger and tell him to "Commission this!".

    See, AH is like a sitcom. You can't fire the cast, or allow them to excuse themselves, every week, and expect to keep the quality up. Sure, you'll still get the ratings, like they did on Friends even after they brought Ross and Rachel together and the show lost direction as the characters became caricatures of themselves, but that's just people engaged in wishful thinking and refusing to break old habits, so they keep lying themselves, saying the show is just as funny as it used to be and hasn't gotten tired, like this analogy, but it has and we all know it.

    AH lacks personality because it lacks personalities.

    IMHO, All Rights Reserved, No Takesie-backsies


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    #199
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Did you PM the mod and ask why it was closed and ask for it to be reopened?

    Is that an advised course of action and would the same course of action be a good idea for moved threads?


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    #200
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    I do blame yourselves.

    If you ask me it all went wrong when <redacted> was handed the keys to the reigns to the wheel of AH and proceeded to drive it off the deep end of a short pier. The Mick Wallace of boards mods.

    But that's not what I want to talk about. At the risk of repeating myself (and no, this is not about the canteen, which I still can't bloody find) there's a little Close Account feature on boards that has allowed the arse to fall out of its userbase. Yeah, I know it was data commissioned by the Data Commissioner, but if you ask me all y'all ought march into his little office, stretch out your right arm (or left, this issue crosses the political divide), extend your middle finger and tell him to "Commission this!".

    See, AH is like a sitcom. You can't fire the cast, or allow them to excuse themselves, every week, and expect to keep the quality up. Sure, you'll still get the ratings, like they did on Friends even after they brought Ross and Rachel together and the show lost direction as the characters became caricatures of themselves, but that's just people engaged in wishful thinking and refusing to break old habits, so they keep lying themselves, saying the show is just as funny as it used to be and hasn't gotten tired, like this analogy, but it has and we all know it.

    AH lacks personality because it lacks personalities.

    IMHO, All Rights Reserved, No Takesie-backsies

    Ha ha ha. Anal...


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    #201
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Ailani Round Shag wrote: »
    Ha ha ha. Anal...
    That wasn't my point but I'll take it! ;)


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    #202
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Is that an advised course of action and would the same course of action be a good idea for moved threads?

    It's more difficult with moved threads but yes, I advise you contact the mod who moved it, at least they can get your point of view if you object to the move.

    Definitely when it comes to locked threads, the more constructive criticism, the better. Note, constructive.


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    #203
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    Penn wrote: »
    Really? I took it as a pretty obvious comment of what would have previously been considered typical AH-fare, while also (intentionally or otherwise) making a point about how people are for full enforcement of the rules when it suits them, but not when they're the one who breaches the rules.

    Admittedly, there are probably few posters who could pull off such a comment, but considering the type of poster seamus is and his usual style of posting, to me it was very obvious he was joking.
    Genuinely did not see that myself (I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it) all I saw was a strange snipe at Eugene Norman for no reason, but anyway, enough has been said on it.

    I think people need to make up their mind as to what their issue with MadDog76 is btw - a troublemaker or someone who wants stricter rules; they seem to be having a go at him from both angles.


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    #204
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    This case needs the Ombudsman of the Internet.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #205
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    That wasn't my point but I'll take it! ;)

    You'll "take" anal....


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    #206
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,775 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    Azalea wrote: »
    ...I think people need to make up their mind as to what their issue with MadDog76 is btw - a troublemaker or someone who wants stricter rules; they seem to be having a go at him from both angles.

    Erm, no they don't. Everyone needs to leave the personalities out of it & stick to discussing AH.

    tHB


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    #207
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    More people should be banned from AH more often. Mods are too damn nice. Wasn't like that back in my day.


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    #208
    Classic Rock Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 155 ✭✭Classic Rock Man


    Chorus_suck wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Just lmaoing at the double standards.

    The people here will complain that mods should cater to their emotional (lmao) needs but at the same time will b*tch about migrants wanting the government to cater to theirs.

    Cognitive dissonance much?

    Or I think we can surmise everyone here is a self-serving primadonna and should just up when using a free public forum with fulltime moderators that get no pay.


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    #209
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    Classic Rock Man wrote: »
    Just lmaoing at the double standards.

    The people here will complain that mods should cater to their emotional (lmao) needs but at the same time will b*tch about migrants wanting the government to cater to theirs.

    Cognitive dissonance much?
    Weird analogy, but... are they always the same people? And are you really lyao-ing? Did someone mention something about emotional needs?
    Or I think we can surmise everyone here is a self-serving primadonna
    Everyone?


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    #210
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Did you PM the mod and ask why it was closed and ask for it to be reopened?

    Ah to be honest I didn't even think of that, especially given that, as I said, the thread wasn't taking off anyway and I probably would have done if the thread was more popular. But noted for next time.


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    #211
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,812 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    I second this motion. This thread needs the final word from someone with a cool head, and an impartial view of the current state of affairs in AH. However, the recent increase in crybully numbers on his/her Internet may mean he/she is needed elsewhere.
    K-9 wrote: »
    This case needs the Ombudsman of the Internet.


This discussion has been closed.
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