SuperBowl 50 Thread

Jolly Red Giant

namloc1980 wrote: »

But the Panthers O did score a TD after a 73 yd drive in the 1st half - longer than anything the Broncos managed. Broncos O were shockingly bad and their D literally carried them the whole game.

The Panthers scored 10 points - the Broncos scored 24 - 17 of those were by the offence.

The Panthers offence is better than the Broncos offence - but the Broncos defence is better than the Panthers D. Manning and the offence took advantage of what the defence gave them. Newton has been living off of short fields generated by defensive turnovers all season - last night he had to drive the length of the field and the offence couldn't get it done. The broncos offence was good enough not to turn the ball over where Newton could do damage.

You have to do two things to win a football game - stop the other guy scoring and score yourself - the Broncos did both and they did it with a defence that is among the best ever (and I am sure the debate will now move to whether they are one fo the best if not the best that has played the game).

Doodah7

namloc1980 wrote: »

But the Panthers O did score a TD after a 73 yd drive in the 1st half - longer than anything the Broncos managed. Broncos O were shockingly bad and their D literally carried them the whole game.

But so what? It is the score at the end of the game that counts. All the bitching and moaning about the Bronco's O is absolutely, ABSOLUTELY irrelevant. It takes 45 players to win a game on Offense, Defense and Special Teams. Each part contributes to the whole. You and everyone else moaning about how ineffectual Manning and the rest of the offense were are missing the point. They scored one touchdown and a 2pter. The Special Teams scored three FG's and the Defense scored a TD. All parts of the team contributing to the whole.

Did Carolina's three parts contribute? The offense did but not as effectively. Their Defense did but not as effectively and their Special Teams were the same.

Based on the game last night, Denver deserved to win. Over the whole season? Carolina were obviously by far the better team. But in a one game shootout, it is the old cliche of whatever teams turns up wins.

A relatively compelling but terribly poor spectacle of a superbowl.

Impressive defences yes but when both offences misfire to that extent it drags the game down.

It will be remembered for Lady Gaga's anthem performance, not the game. Says it all.

ricero

glasso wrote: »

A relatively compelling but terribly poor spectacle of a superbowl.

It will be remembered for Lady Gaga's anthem performance, not the game. Says it all.

yuup it was a stinker. A shame considering it was the 50th event. Cant see them claiming many new fans, in fact I reckon it turned a lot of people of the sport as it did some of my non nfl friends who watched it with me last night.

adrian522

Fair point

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/696678201943334912

OldMrBrennan83

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Utopia Parkway

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The broncos had the best offence in the NFL two years ago and the Seahawks embarrassed them. The panthers had the best offence in the NFL this year and the Broncos embarrassed them.

Defences win Championships. And when the defence gives you the opportunity to score points the offence has to get the job done - the Broncos offence got it done the Panthers offence didn't.

I wouldn't say the Broncos O got it done to be honest. It was almost non-existant. The Broncos D was so great however in putting them in good positions that it just didn't matter. They only needed minimal output from their offence.

cosatron

adrian522 wrote: »

Fair point

https://twitter.com/Cathal_Dennehy/status/696678201943334912

Positive test, sample manipulation - worth noting that if nfl football players were athlete, there would have been no nfl long ago.

vetinari

Denver scoring the defensive TD decided the game imo. Whoever took a lead was going to win last night's game.
Must be galling for Panthers fans that a key refereeing mistake set that up.

In one sense that could be the best defensive performance ever in a SuperBowl.
The Broncos offense set a new Superbowl record for consecutive failed third downs.
12 failed third downs in a row! To win a game with that type of offensive performance shows how dominant your defense must have been.

vetinari

Denver scoring the defensive TD decided the game imo. Whoever took a lead was going to win last night's game.
Must be galling for Panthers fans that a key refereeing mistake set that up.

In one sense that could be the best defensive performance ever in a SuperBowl.
The Broncos offense set a new Superbowl record for consecutive failed third downs.
12 failed third downs in a row! To win a game with that type of offensive performance shows how dominant your defense must have been.

vetinari

One last comment, the guy who completely **** the bed and has skirted widespread criticism thus far is Mike Shula.
He might be top 5 all time for terrible play calling in a Superbowl?
Continual runs on first down, very few hurry up plays, no change of gameplan to reflect the speed of the Denver defense.

vetinari

One last comment, the guy who completely **** the bed and has skirted widespread criticism thus far is Mike Shula.
He might be top 5 all time for terrible play calling in a Superbowl?
Continual runs on first down, very few hurry up plays, no change of gameplan to reflect the speed of the Denver defense.

dub_skav

vetinari wrote: »

Denver scoring the defensive TD decided the game imo. Whoever took a lead was going to win last night's game.
Must be galling for Panthers fans that a key refereeing mistake set that up.

In one sense that could be the best defensive performance ever in a SuperBowl.
The Broncos offense set a new Superbowl record for consecutive failed third downs.
12 failed third downs in a row! To win a game with that type of offensive performance shows how dominant your defense must have been.

What mistake was that?

If it's the non catch that you're talking about, I think the nose of the ball touched the ground when Cotchery first hit the ground, before he rolled over. So, it was a non catch.
Also, once it was called that way on the field there was never enough to overturn it.

I don't think the refs blew that call at all, or are you referring to something else?

Richard Hillman

Apart from the Sheriff retiring, it was a pretty forgetable Superbowl. There standard of offence wasn't particularly impressive. The half time show too was pretty mediocre bar Beyonce.

cosatron

could someone tell me when was the last time there was a superbowl where there was no thrown touch down.

OldMrBrennan83

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Jolly Red Giant

vetinari wrote: »

One last comment, the guy who completely **** the bed and has skirted widespread criticism thus far is Mike Shula.
He might be top 5 all time for terrible play calling in a Superbowl?
Continual runs on first down, very few hurry up plays, no change of gameplan to reflect the speed of the Denver defense.

There was nothing Shula could have done - the Panthers offence was overhyped and the Broncos defence is so good they would have stopped anything he tried.

Jolly Red Giant

Richard Hillman wrote: »

it was a pretty forgetable Superbowl. There standard of offence wasn't particularly impressive.

The offences couldn't do anything because of the play of the defences - the Broncos defence is one of the best ever and the Panthers are no slouches (Kuechly is a seriously good footballer).

StringerBell

dub_skav wrote: »

What mistake was that?

If it's the non catch that you're talking about, I think the nose of the ball touched the ground when Cotchery first hit the ground, before he rolled over. So, it was a non catch.
Also, once it was called that way on the field there was never enough to overturn it.

I don't think the refs blew that call at all, or are you referring to something else?

You're wrong though.

vetinari

Exactly, how on earth are people arguing that was not a catch? I'm a Pats fan so not really concerned either way.
The ball can touch the ground as long as it doesn't aid the catch. The receiver had his hand under the ball and it didn't touch the ground after he rolled over. Clear catch judging by refereeing calls this season and the last few seasons.
That decision was completely out of line with the last 50 NFL games I've seen.

vetinari

Exactly, how on earth are people arguing that was not a catch? I'm a Pats fan so not really concerned either way.
The ball can touch the ground as long as it doesn't aid the catch. The receiver had his hand under the ball and it didn't touch the ground after he rolled over. Clear catch judging by refereeing calls this season and the last few seasons.
That decision was completely out of line with the last 50 NFL games I've seen.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE-xswZX-8k

Richard Hillman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The offences couldn't do anything because of the play of the defences - the Broncos defence is one of the best ever and the Panthers are no slouches (Kuechly is a seriously good footballer).

A little bit but there were passes to be made and catches to to be caught. The D's were not perfect and the QBs and WRs didn't capitalise the opportunities.

Jolly Red Giant

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A little bit but there were passes to be made and catches to to be caught. The D's were not perfect and the QBs and WRs didn't capitalise the opportunities.

Newton lacks touch on many of his passes - he may develop this, time will tell. The WRs are not particularly good - they were catching the ball in the open all season - when you play the Broncos you have to compete and win - and few WRs have done that this season - very few receivers make YAC against the Broncos. The Broncos have the best tandem of 3CBs in the NFL - all three would probably start on any other team.

AbusesToilets

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Newton lacks touch on many of his passes - he may develop this, time will tell. The WRs are not particularly good - they were catching the ball in the open all season - when you play the Broncos you have to compete and win - and few WRs have done that this season - very few receivers make YAC against the Broncos. The Broncos have the best tandem of 3CBs in the NFL - all three would probably start on any other team.

The Broncos' D was excellent and you certainly earned the right to crow your teams victory, but to claim that the Panthers had no answer to Denver's D is to ignore the reality of the game. There were opportunities for the Panthers that they failed to capitalise on. Their receivers made catches in heavy coverage, and they had success at times running the ball.

You can enjoy and laud the deserved Denver victory without denigrating the Panthers game. Denver got the rub and took their opportunities better than Carolina, but to paint the game as a blowout is being ridiculous.

Jolly Red Giant

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The Broncos' D was excellent and you certainly earned the right to crow your teams victory, but to claim that the Panthers had no answer to Denver's D is to ignore the reality of the game. There were opportunities for the Panthers that they failed to capitalise on. Their receivers made catches in heavy coverage, and they had success at times running the ball.

The Broncos also had opportunities that they failed to capitalise on. The receivers made a couple of catches during the game but were handled without too much difficulty by the Broncos secondary.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You can enjoy and laud the deserved Denver victory without denigrating the Panthers game.

I spent a week reading and listening to people that the Panthers were going to steamroll the Broncos - that the Panthers D was as good if not better than the Broncos D - the Broncos couldn't stop Newton etc. I made the point on here last week that the Panthers offence was overhyped - that the defence had its limitations and that the Broncos matched up very well against the Panthers - all of which was proved correct.

The Broncos won - and fully deserved the win - the Panthers appeared arrogant and had the vibe that all they had to do was turn up - but once they were rattled they were on a loser.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Denver got the rub and took their opportunities better than Carolina, but to paint the game as a blowout is being ridiculous.

The Broncos defence bossed the game. Two weeks ago I said that I had absolute confidence that the Broncos defence would stop Brady and the Pats in the fourth quarter. I had the same confidence about the game last night from the moment Miller stripped the ball from Newton and Jackson jumped on it in the endzone.

people talk about the Broncos going 1-14 on 3rd downs - the Panthers were 3-15 on 3rd downs - that the Broncos couldn't get in the endzone - they did it the same number of times as the Panthers no.1 offence. The Panthers only got into the redzone twice in the entire game. Despite using max protection the Panthers were repeatedly penalised for false starts.

The Broncos have won 9 games this season by less than a score - they haven't blown anyone out - but they have dominated teams - and they dominated the Panthers last night.

namloc1980

dub_skav wrote: »

What mistake was that?

If it's the non catch that you're talking about, I think the nose of the ball touched the ground when Cotchery first hit the ground, before he rolled over. So, it was a non catch.
Also, once it was called that way on the field there was never enough to overturn it.

I don't think the refs blew that call at all, or are you referring to something else?

They totally blew the call. The rule on the ball touching the ground is actually clear enough:

It is a catch if, in the process of attempting to catch the ball, a player secures control of the ball prior to it touching the ground, and that control is maintained during and after the ball has touched the ground.

Alot of people seem to think that if the ball touches the ground during the catch, then it is automatically an incomplete pass. That isn't the case at all. Cotchery had control of the ball at all times, including when the nose touched the ground. Bad call by the referee.

namloc1980

cosatron wrote: »

could someone tell me when was the last time there was a superbowl where there was no thrown touch down.

Super Bowl III between the Jets and Colts definitely had no passing touchdowns.

Paully D

Regarding the catch, did Cotchery actually maintain control throughout the process of going to the ground as is required per the rules? Personally, I don't think he did but I can also understand the other viewpoint too.

Either way, there certainly wasn't the indisputable visual evidence needed to overturn the play (which is further evident considering that it could and probably will be debated from now until September as to what the call should have been).

It's the catch rule as opposed to the officials that people should have the problem with. The officials got the call on the challenge right as per the rule book IMO.

adrian522

cosatron wrote: »

could someone tell me when was the last time there was a superbowl where there was no thrown touch down.

I think it was SB 28.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXVIII#Box_score

3 Rushing TDs and 1 defensive TD but no passing TD.

namloc1980

Paully D wrote: »

Regarding the catch, did Cotchery actually maintain control throughout the process of going to the ground as is required per the rules? Personally, I don't think he did but I can also understand the other viewpoint too.

Either way, there certainly wasn't the indisputable visual evidence needed to overturn the play (which is further evident considering that it could and probably will be debated from now until September as to what the call should have been).

It's the catch rule as opposed to the officials that people should have the problem with. The officials got the call on the challenge right as per the rule book IMO.

The rule on control of the ball is:

If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered loss of possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.

He never lost control of the ball. It moved slightly but he had his hand around it throughout the catch. The replay is pretty clear on this. There's no disguising the bad call by the referee.

Knex*

I really don't see the ground to have Cotchery's 'catch' overturned, tbh. Whatever way it was ruled, it was going to stay, really.

He should have caught it without having to juggle it about the place anyway.

dub_skav

It seems the difference of opinion is considering what is control of the ball after it is dislodged

Imagine a similar catch where the issue is not if it hits the ground, but is instead where his foot goes out of bounds at the point the ball moves. There is absolutely no way that would be ruled a caught and possessed ball with it moving from one hand to the other and rolling over his body if he was out of bounds when it happened.

Edit: Just looking at it again with more time passed from watching it live and there is less movement of the ball than I thought there was. However, I still believe that the ball was dislodged by impacting the ground and the only question is whether he maintained control, or whether he "re-caught" it on his body.

Certainly no way it could be overturned.

OldMrBrennan83

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dub_skav

2 images from a different forum that crystalise the question:

Nose of ball touching ground


Hand no longer in contact with ball:


So, as I said previously, what is control?
My opinion is the ground moves the ball out of his hand and he re-traps it with his arm, after that point he maintains control and it does not touch the ground again, but the incompletion had already happened.
So, I believe the correct call was made.

OldMrBrennan83

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Morrison J

Yeah it agree with the above. After the nose of the ball hit the turf it clearly caused the ball to move in an upwards trajectory, meaning Cotchery didn't have full control of the ball.

Either way, once Mike Carey said it would be overturned we all knew this was confirmation that the complete opposite would actually happen.

Areyouwell

Hulk Hands wrote: »

And the one off packers/colts/steelers/bills/jets fans that all hate the broncos. They all pop up the deflategate thread at some stage. Fairly obvious after a while

Weird how you seem to be preaching from the same paranoid hymn sheet, that the twit who got banned was using. I just hope it doesn't end as badly for you.



And back to football. I was so happy to see Manning get another ring. Hopefully he'll retire now, come home to sign a one day contract and retire as a Colt.:cool:

Jolly Red Giant

It is interesting to note that Demarcus Ware commented that when Miller stripped the ball and Jackson recovered in the endzone the Broncos knew they had won the game. Not because of the TD but because of the body language of the Panthers - and Newton in particular. Ware said they could see that Newton was done and all they had to do was avoid mistakes to win the game. The Broncos defence knew they could stop Newton and would get more turnovers.

D9Male

Don't underestimate the impact that Special Teams had on the game on Sunday. Ginn Jr. never got going on punt returns. Denver had that big gain of 61 yards and of course the missed FG.

KrustyUCC

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635006/article/cam-newton-i-hate-losing-show-me-a-good-loser

Not a good look. You can be a bad loser and still act professionally and face the media. Younger QB have played in the game and acted way more maturely

"As for the fourth-quarter fumble he did not dive on, Newton noted that "the way my leg was -- it could have been (contorted) in a way" to cause injury."

It's the SB. you gotta try to make a play for your team. You may not recover it but at least try

Jolly Red Giant

KrustyUCC wrote: »

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635006/article/cam-newton-i-hate-losing-show-me-a-good-loser

Not a good look. You can be a bad loser and still act professionally and face the media. Younger QB have played in the game and acted way more maturely

"As for the fourth-quarter fumble he did not dive on, Newton noted that "the way my leg was -- it could have been (contorted) in a way" to cause injury."

It's the SB. you gotta try to make a play for your team. You may not recover it but at least try

Was just about to post that link

When you are a QB and you want to win the SB this is what you do

j8wk2feszrnpao

I don't know if I can be harsh on Cam or not for his reaction. All year he has taken the hits and that amazing (while at the same time quite fortunate) leap into the end zone.

But then again, it's the SB, so you've got to give it all cause he may never make it back again.

Either way, I'd imagine if Cam has a overly long TD celebration next year, there may be a few defensive players who may have a dance (or jump backwards) in response.

poldebruin

A bit late to the discussion, but thoughts on the game:

Delighted Denver won, and via Defense, Special teams play for the most part. They won another, tight, messy game. They beat the Browns earlier in the year this way, and they won the Super Bowl this way!

Strange game, Denver were at their most dangerous when Carolina had the ball, as our Defense was so dominant, while Carolina were at their most dangerous when Denver had the ball in case Manning threw another interception. i honestly thought at one point we were just going to start punting on 3rd and long.

Even though it was tiht, it never really felt that way watching it, had Denver had an even halfway competent Offense it would have been a rout.

Overall a poor Super Bowl. I love defensive football, and tight games, but the way both Defenses stiffled any sort of offense made for a poor spectacle overall.

Don't see what the big deal was about the catch/non catch. Just one of these things that can go your way or not, and once it was called incomplete on the field it was never going to be overturned. In truth Cotchery should have just done a better job on the catch. It's early in the game and Carolina do not have to concede a strip sack fumble recovery for a touchdown on the next play.
(*aside, the exact same thing happened to Denver in Super Bowl XXI - Denver leading 10-7 against the Giants. Elway completed a pass from his 1 or 2 yard line, caught by Orson Mobly but ruled incomplete. Replay show he caught it cleany. Elway was sacked for a safety on the next play.)

Hated seeing the Talib facemask penalty, there's facemask, and there's what Talib did. So dangerous and could have earned himself an ejection.

1st and 10 run it straight into the line for a yard.....time after time. Is that the best you can do Carolina/Mike Shula?

Cam had a bad day, missed throws and seemed to crumble under the pressure. Nobody seems to be saying it, but that is what he did. i see a lot of articles saying, "well he did well considering the pressure he was under" or "he got no help from his receivers"..... or "his oline was terrible" but I expect a league MVP and leader to try to step up a lot more than he showed in the game.

I've seen nobody bring it up, but down by 14 with about 2:10 left in the game facing 4th and 24 inside the 10 and Carolina elect to punt the ball? Talk about just giving up. Green Bay and Aaron Rodger just showed a couple of weeks ago what can happen (albeit highly unlikely) but to do what they did was such a complete surrender. i don't understand it at all.

So, not a game for the ages, and i won't be in a hurry to watch it again, but delighted Manning got a very unlikely second ring, stats be damned, he played his part this year too, not what we've come to expect, but he's sent his whole career putting up mind boggling statistics and not winning a Super Bowl, so he deserves a pass by winning one with pedestrian numbers.

poldebruin

A bit late to the discussion, but thoughts on the game:

*Delighted Denver won, and via Defense, Special teams play for the most part. They won another, tight, messy game. They beat the Browns earlier in the year this way, and they won the Super Bowl this way!


*Strange game, Denver were at their most dangerous when Carolina had the ball, as our Defense was so dominant, while Carolina were at their most dangerous when Denver had the ball in case Manning threw another interception. i honestly thought at one point we were just going to start punting on 3rd and long.


*Even though it was tight, it never really felt that way watching it, had Denver had an even halfway competent Offense it would have been a rout.


*Overall a poor Super Bowl. I love defensive football, and tight games, but the way both Defenses stiffled any sort of offense made for a poor spectacle overall.


*Don't see what the big deal was about the catch/non catch. Just one of these things that can go your way or not, and once it was called incomplete on the field it was never going to be overturned. In truth Cotchery should have just done a better job on the catch. It's early in the game and Carolina do not have to concede a strip sack fumble recovery for a touchdown on the next play.


*Hated seeing the Talib facemask penalty, there's facemask, and there's what Talib did. So dangerous and could have earned himself an ejection.

*1st and 10 run it straight into the line for a yard.....time after time. Is that the best you can do Carolina/Mike Shula?

*Cam had a bad day, missed throws and seemed to crumble under the pressure. Nobody seems to be saying it, but that is what he did. i see a lot of articles saying, "well he did well considering the pressure he was under" or "he got no help from his receivers"..... or "his oline was terrible" but I expect a league MVP and leader to try to step up a lot more than he showed in the game.


*I've seen nobody bring it up, but down by 14 with about 2:10 left in the game facing 4th and 24 inside the 10 and Carolina elect to punt the ball? Talk about just giving up. Green Bay and Aaron Rodger just showed a couple of weeks ago what can happen (albeit highly unlikely) but to do what they did was such a complete surrender. i don't understand it at all.


So, not a game for the ages, and i won't be in a hurry to watch it again, but delighted Manning got a very unlikely second ring, stats be damned, he played his part this year too, not what we've come to expect, but he's sent his whole career putting up mind boggling statistics and not winning a Super Bowl, so he deserves a pass by winning one with pedestrian numbers.

Jolly Red Giant

Very good breakdown here of how the Broncos defence manhandled the Panthers offence in the SB

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635224/article/broncos-defensive-tactics-flummoxed-panthers-in-super-bowl-50

HigginsJ

KrustyUCC wrote: »

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000635006/article/cam-newton-i-hate-losing-show-me-a-good-loser

Not a good look. You can be a bad loser and still act professionally and face the media. Younger QB have played in the game and acted way more maturely

For me his post game reactions beats the hell out of the bland generic nonsense some spout. If I was a Panthes fan it would look to me like he was hurt by it and gave a ****. Too many get away with "We played hard & it was not our day but I know God will bring us back here next year" type responses that mean nothing.

Jolly Red Giant

HigginsJ wrote: »

For me his post game reactions beats the hell out of the bland generic nonsense some spout. If I was a Panthes fan it would look to me like he was hurt by it and gave a ****. Too many get away with "We played hard & it was not our day but I know God will bring us back here next year" type responses that mean nothing.

Apparently he went off in a strop because he overheard Chris Harris Jr next door telling reporters that the Broncos D had Newton's number and knew how to stop him.

adrian522

The interview setup is pathetic, you can hear what is going on in the next "room", only a curtain separating the interviewees. They should have a better setup given the money involved.

Similar thing happened Navarro Bowman after the 2012 Superbowl where Ray Lewis could be heard bedside him. It's no way to treat players who have just lost a superbowl and is completely understandable in my book.

Take a look below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkwKjjQ3myQ

Johnny_Fontane

Watched the game in Vegas - and a little late to the thread.

The second half was poor, but the first half I thought was very exciting. I had backed Denver pre game +5.5 and I thought they could get to Cam. To be fair, Cam should have been sacked probably twice as many times as he was but his ability to escape the pocket was unbelievable. That pass rush....

What everybody in vegas was asking was why the hell Cam wasnt using his legs, not sure whether this was on Shula/Rivera or Cam froze, but the panthers lost the game in my opinion due to this.

Well played Denver though, already looking forward to next season......