TriAthy X

noc231073

I have never heard such moaning and complaining in all my life ..
I am thinking most of ye lot just do the race so you can complain and moan on a public forum..

And comments like .. I was on the white line passing NOBS... which is a very sporting way to refer to your fellow competitors..!!!!

Apparently traveling at 50km/hour .

Build a bridge ...!!!!!!

If the race was so important to u .. do your homework before hand .. like the rest of the good people racing Saturday that didn't get lost did ..




And if you dont like the race dont enter next year
Simple ..!!

zico10

noc231073 wrote: »

And comments like .. I was on the white line passing NOBS... which is a very sporting way to refer to your fellow competitors..!!!!

I called them NOOBS.

I suggest you read posts properly before you reply to them.

gilleek2

noc231073 wrote: »

I have never heard such moaning and complaining in all my life ..
I am thinking most of ye lot just do the race so you can complain and moan on a public forum..

And comments like .. I was on the white line passing NOBS... which is a very sporting way to refer to your fellow competitors..!!!!

Apparently traveling at 50km/hour .

Build a bridge ...!!!!!!

If the race was so important to u .. do your homework before hand .. like the rest of the good people racing Saturday that didn't get lost did ..




And if you dont like the race dont enter next year
Simple ..!!

Noobs not nobs. Noob=newbie. Not a terribly derogatory term i wouldnt have thought.

When you've done many many races over the course of at least 10 years you get to know what well organised, safe races look like. There were quite a few aspects of a well organised, safe race missing in Athy.

The Scullster

as the username might suggest - Shane Scully here (can't access my old Huff n Puff account at the moment).

It has been interesting listening to the arguments going back and forward. Just thought I would jump in with my own 2 cents.

The truest comment has probably come from Peter with his "it has good points and bad points as a beginner i would love to do the race as an experienced athlete i would not. " The course is very much a Try a Tri course for people who like a safe swim and nice scenic run down by the river. It's not for top quality, high pace racing in its current format.

The last time I did this race would have been 9 or 10 years ago when it was in its infancy. I didn't like the race back then as I thought there was some fundamental problems with the course and the way it was run. In the 10 years since, the prices have risen. A few bells and whistles have been added but the same big issues are never addressed.

However, I needed to get a longer distance race in, so after the Humbert was cancelled I thought I would give this race one more chance. There were quite a few on here saying how it had improved last year so I thought it must be better. It wasn't.

noc231073 - "If the race was so important to u .. do your homework before hand .. like the rest of the good people racing Saturday that didn't get lost did .."

I can't remember ever going the wrong way in triathlons over the last 20 years (once in a 'for profit' duathlon alright). I did my homework beforehand but in a race scenario split second decisions need to be made when you come upon a turn all of a sudden. Critical junctions in triathlons need to be marshaled well with vocal marshals and sign posts if needs be. Then again perhaps I am just not one of the good people.

you are not the only one that went wrong Zico. I went wrong 3 times and that cost me the race.

The first time there was no marshal on one of the turns on the bike course. I went the wrong way but was able to spot the error quickly enough and only lost about 30 seconds.

The second time I ended up cutting the first run lap short. I was following the flow of the crowd ahead. The crowd happened to be Try a Tri racers and their loop was apparently only 4km, so I think they turned early. There was no marshal giving instructions or signs there at the time to separate the races so I turned with everyone else. I presume there was a timing mat at the far part of the course? or this would have been a big advantage for me straight away but it would also have resulted in me getting disqualified.

The third misdirection cost me the race. Like you said there wasn't a single sign on the course. A bigger issue was the lack of attention being paid by the marshals. There were a lot of young lads on their phones or talking with friends. I heard they were probably from a GAA club and so wouldn't be the sort to put on critical race junctions (that is not a cut at the GAA). There was also multiple races on the course. This meant that when we came to a critical point on the course where one race went one way towards the new finish and the other race went another way, I followed the crowd ahead of me and ended up at the finish line after just 1 lap. There were big cheers as they announced that the Double Olympic winner was finishing. I won't repeat the tirade of abuse that came out of my mouth after that (not my proudest moment). I lost about 12 minutes before getting back onto the right course. I ran on for another 2k but kept getting held up by people and was getting too angry to keep going so pulled out, cut a corner and walked home via the river.

It is very rare that I don't finish a race. That is how much this race annoyed me.

Here are the fundamental problems as I see it.

* it's all about the money = overcrowding - the course just can't take the sheer amount of people they cram into it.

* Double Olympic swim - start was fine, but after you turn at the bouy at the 1500m mark you turn back into the back markers of the wave. The next 1200m are spent swimming past 100 slower swimmers. Going around the buoy at 2300m, I was getting hammered by another 10 slower swimmers passing around it at the same time. How is this a good idea?

Jetty - I nearly broke my foot as I fell when my foot got caught in a gap between the wood and metal panels on the jetty. Badly bruised and limping today. Going to put this one down to personal error though!

* Bike - not having a noticeable mount line at the start is small but it adds one more negative point to the race. Needless to say there was confusion for me there too. I have already mentioned turning the wrong way on an unmarshalled Y junction. The other fundamental problem here is the amount of cyclists on the roads. The speed difference between top racers and hybrid bike Try a Tri cyclists can be huge and risks are taken. Coming back into town, the road is split in two by cones. This goes on for quite a while and ends up being very dangerous because of different races and standard of cyclists (Try a Tri) coming together. I have never shouted 'on your right' or 'coming through' as much in a race in my life.

* Run - this is easily the worst run route on the Irish triathlon circuit. You are sent running out the same road as incoming cyclists (where I have already mentioned a big issue with regards squeezing past other cyclists). The room for running is very narrow. This wouldn't be too much of a problem except for you are running into the back of the Try a Tri racers with a huge amount of walkers and friends chatting. It is very hard to settle and get into a rhythm. The run by the river is just not good at all and never has been. It is far too narrow for the numbers on it and again its a case of shouting 'coming through' all the time. You are forced off the trail onto uneven surfaces and its all just very distracting. This race can never be a good one until that run is changed or the amount on it is restricted. 2 wrong turns on the run compounded the misery.

* Marshaling - if you are a 'for-profit' race and are charging high prices to get in then you had better provide a good service in all areas. The marshaling at this race was the worst I have seen. There were plenty of marshals out there doing a great job and they were very supportive (I feel bad for dragging them into this) but there were far too many just standing up and doing nothing bar chatting to friends or looking at their phones. I managed to go the wrong way 3 times in this race in total. Yes I know you are supposed to 'know the route' but in this day and age of Triathlon Ireland micro managing every single turn on the course you come to expect marshals or signs everywhere. With different races on the same course going in different directions it can be hard to figure out where to go unless the marshals are vocal. This is not orienteering or a map learning contest. It simply needs a marshal or sign at critical junctions doing their job.

I felt that inexperienced, uninterested marshals, not familiar with the sport, let the organiser down. On the flip side, the organiser let the marshals down by putting too many competitors on the course and not sourcing enough marshals in the first place. This led to decent, hard working marshals taking abuse that they didn't deserve.

peter kern

i totally agree with you ( and for many years i argued the same ) , but the ship has sailed many years ago, and now i think both you and zico toally miss the mark.
you are cought up in a thinking that every race has to be the same ( non commerical only one race not to overcroweded )

the race is a beginner race and it works for that. and iam sure many people love excatly the fact that thers is so many people ( we are sheps) love thats something is happening and that its overcroweded and love that dad can do the tri a tri and mum the oly race in the same day .

its people like you and zico that are in the wrong place now not the chatting groups ( i say this half as devils advocate and half as realist)

EC1000

peter kern wrote: »

its people like you and zico that are in the wrong place now not the chatting groups ( i say this half as devils advocate and half as realist)

That would be a fair point if it wasn't for the fact that a large portion of the field are taking part in the double olympic race which is always going to attract the more serious racer either targeting it or using it as a prep for IM racing.

The Scullster

I don't like it, but you are probably right Peter.

In saying that, proper marshaling is a basic requirement of all races and it is right that that is pointed out. This race has also been part of the National Series for many years and with that you would expect minimum racing standards. Plus if I ask the race organiser, I would imagine he would say that yes indeed, they are trying their best to cater for racing triathletes and not just Try a Tri - hence the Try a Tri was 1 of 4 events on the day. Still, I agree with what you are trying to say Peter.

The way triathlon has gone, the majority of people in the sport don't want what I want now anyway. The overwhelming opinion about Triathy from our Nenagh Tri Club members that also took part was - great race! They want the big crowded races with all the bells and whistles and they got it. It made them feel like they were part of something big. They genuinely really enjoyed everything about it. I am not the target market for this race.

In cycling terms, it would be the same as me turning up at a well known Sportive instead of a cycling race and complaining about huge crowds / speed differences / people getting in the way / high entry fees etc. I look like the weirdo in that scenario. There is room for both in the cycling scene.

To be honest, I don't even recognise my own club anymore. It certainly isn't the type of club I set out to form 10 years ago. Competition and pushing yourself to your limits has been replaced by a more leisurely outlook. That is perfect for some but it's not for me.

RacoonQueen

peter kern wrote: »

i totally agree with you ( and for many years i argued the same ) , but the ship has sailed many years ago, and now i think both you and zico toally miss the mark.
you are cought up in a thinking that every race has to be the same ( non commerical only one race not to overcroweded )

the race is a beginner race and it works for that. and iam sure many people love excatly the fact that thers is so many people ( we are sheps) love thats something is happening and that its overcroweded and love that dad can do the tri a tri and mum the oly race in the same day .

its people like you and zico that are in the wrong place now not the chatting groups ( i say this half as devils advocate and half as realist)

I think you are right in that more experienced racers should probably steer clear of this race. At the same time, we shouldn't accept the things races like it do wrong year after year after year. They're things the average 'beginner' or 'box ticker' won't give a flying hoot about...but things the rest of us know they shouldn't get away with.
Not having enough marshals or people being sent the wrong way can be dangerous. Think of a race leader or someone at the pointy end of the race during the bike, going from a closed road to an open road - so much easier for them to go wrong as they don't have peletons to follow. Thinking they're still on course and racing as such...all of a sudden they meet cars/trucks/tractors...

Like many, Athy was my first tri. The sprint and try a tri I think were on the Sunday back then. Probably worked better for the race as a whole but perhaps the town didn't like the roads being shut down for two days.

Did the double there two years ago and found it fine, but can see where Shane is coming from. I did a 70 min swim for the double back then and had many slower swimmers get in my way so can only imagine the frustration of people who can actually swim as the hit lap 2!

Anyway, you vote with your entry. Whether the likes of Zico and Shane do this race or not won't make a difference to Tri Athy - they don't care what the athletes at the pointy end think. Sadly, they will still sell out and will never be forced to pull up their socks as the hordes still go back year after year after year.

griffin100

Despite the complaints I bet it gets its NS status back next year, possibly at the expense of a current NS race close by. Then again I'm a bit of a cynic.

mossym

The Scullster wrote: »

. This race has also been part of the National Series for many years and with that you would expect minimum racing standards.

a point that had gone largely unmentioned until now, and a pretty important one. a race offering NS points should meet a minimum standard of offering a fair race to all competitors. people can draw there own conclusions as to whether that was the case here or not.

griffin100

mossym wrote: »

a point that had gone largely unmentioned until now, and a pretty important one. a race offering NS points should meet a minimum standard of offering a fair race to all competitors. people can draw there own conclusions as to whether that was the case here or not.

Athy is not currently an NS race. However that may change for 2018 from what I've heard.

mossym

griffin100 wrote: »

Athy is not currently an NS race. However that may change for 2018 from what I've heard.

It was for the last few years though wasn't it? Or am I remembering wrong?

griffin100

mossym wrote: »

It was for the last few years though wasn't it? Or am I remembering wrong?

It was, and then it lost NS status.

RacoonQueen

griffin100 wrote: »

Despite the complaints I bet it gets its NS status back next year, possibly at the expense of a current NS race close by. Then again I'm a bit of a cynic.

That's another point that we have missed so far. Races that are NS should be a certain standard.
Races that achieve NS status should be getting it because they are a certain standard.

EC1000

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That's another point that we have missed so far. Races that are NS should be a certain standard.
Races that achieve NS status should be getting it because they are a certain standard.

To be fair, it lost its NS status a couple of years ago as a result of the various issues.

Macy0161

Is Triathy pretty similar to other commercial races? Looks like I may have a free pass to take advantage of for 8th July, so TriAthlone probably the most convenient, but have to say I'm a bit put off after Saturday, and there's a couple of club run races that day...

zico10

peter kern wrote: »

i totally agree with you ( and for many years i argued the same ) , but the ship has sailed many years ago, and now i think both you and zico toally miss the mark.
you are cought up in a thinking that every race has to be the same ( non commerical only one race not to overcroweded )

the race is a beginner race and it works for that. and iam sure many people love excatly the fact that thers is so many people ( we are sheps) love thats something is happening and that its overcroweded and love that dad can do the tri a tri and mum the oly race in the same day .

its people like you and zico that are in the wrong place now not the chatting groups ( i say this half as devils advocate and half as realist)

I accept your points, Peter, but why can't a race cater for both types of racers? Despite all their detractors, I don't think there are too many who would claim Ironman don't do a great job on these two fronts. Belpark's duathlon in the Park tomorrow will no doubt also manage it quite well. Honestly, there's no race in Ireland that doesn't have a huge mix of abilities taking part. You claim Tri-Athy are chasing the beginner market. If that is the case, then why are they so keen to regain their NS status?

They also, I presume voluntarily, hosted the very first Super Series race back in 2015. You can hardly claim that was a beginner race. I don't want to say they made a balls of it, but the same dangers I witnessed that day were present again on Saturday.

Like others have already stated, the double Olympic is not a beginner race. There were several KQ athletes and likely KQ athletes racing. I entered it because of the positive reviews it got here on boards. The stories I'd heard off previous participants were also positive and I was lead to believe the sprint races wouldn't impact on the double. This wasn't the case, but now that I've seen for myself what it was like, I won't be back.

RacoonQueen

Macy0161 wrote: »

Is Triathy pretty similar to other commercial races? Looks like I may have a free pass to take advantage of for 8th July, so TriAthlone probably the most convenient, but have to say I'm a bit put off after Saturday, and there's a couple of club run races that day...

I did Athlone in my first season back in 2012. Course has changed a lot since then and they've dropped the Olympic so they aren't running as many races in one day anymore. Course was pretty busy back then - run course especially, from memory. I'd have been a back marker on the swim so playing catch up on the bike and especially the run was frustrating enough.
My only comment on Athlone now is it is extremely expensive. I would not pay that for a sprint. But if it's a VERY local race and you have literally no other expenses to go with it the costs may weigh up against cost of petrol etc

MD1983

zico10 wrote: »

The stories I'd heard off previous participants were also positive and I was lead to believe the sprint races wouldn't impact on the double. This wasn't the case, but now that I've seen for myself what it was like, I won't be back.

in past years the sprint did not impact on the DO as they were on in the evening

the layout of the town does not lend itself to alternative run routes, there is no real other alternative that could be used. in the future with the proposed blueway which i think will involve the construction of some type of gravel or tar path down by the river/canal should allow the run course to be improved and maybe it can go back to an out and back 10km course

resistance by the natives i think killed the 2 day race and the spread out day race

its the new race directors first year, i suppose next year will tell whether he is out to improve the faults or is operating on the instruction to increase profits

triathy it is an important race in attracting new entrants into triathlon, without that the sport would die off as the life span for triathletes seems short.

The tri club in Athy started only maybe 3/4 years ago and i think there were 60 people at o/w swim training one evening recently, to shane scully's point about the change in triathlon, i think the non-serious racing element in clubs (the family people) will help the development of the sport as now clubs have junior sections for kids which ultimately means more participation, more growth and in the future a better standard of racing in triathlon

Macy0161

RacoonQueen wrote:

My only comment on Athlone now is it is extremely expensive. I would not pay that for a sprint. But if it's a VERY local race and you have literally no other expenses to go with it the costs may weigh up against cost of petrol etc

Not that local (will have to marshal at my local one on the Sunday!), and must admit I didn't look at the entry price. Sligo or rostrevor it is if I race so!

peter kern

i think at the end of the day we only have to blame ourselves that we let the tri an mhi half die by not participating in that race
we could have it both way fun in athy a great race at tri an mhi half.
that race had everything you and i were looking for but people voted with their wallet .

The Scullster wrote: »

I don't like it, but you are probably right Peter.

In saying that, proper marshaling is a basic requirement of all races and it is right that that is pointed out. This race has also been part of the National Series for many years and with that you would expect minimum racing standards. Plus if I ask the race organiser, I would imagine he would say that yes indeed, they are trying their best to cater for racing triathletes and not just Try a Tri - hence the Try a Tri was 1 of 4 events on the day. Still, I agree with what you are trying to say Peter.

The way triathlon has gone, the majority of people in the sport don't want what I want now anyway. The overwhelming opinion about Triathy from our Nenagh Tri Club members that also took part was - great race! They want the big crowded races with all the bells and whistles and they got it. It made them feel like they were part of something big. They genuinely really enjoyed everything about it. I am not the target market for this race.

In cycling terms, it would be the same as me turning up at a well known Sportive instead of a cycling race and complaining about huge crowds / speed differences / people getting in the way / high entry fees etc. I look like the weirdo in that scenario. There is room for both in the cycling scene.

To be honest, I don't even recognise my own club anymore. It certainly isn't the type of club I set out to form 10 years ago. Competition and pushing yourself to your limits has been replaced by a more leisurely outlook. That is perfect for some but it's not for me.

golfer555

RacoonQueen wrote: »

My only comment on Athlone now is it is extremely expensive. I would not pay that for a sprint. But if it's a VERY local race and you have literally no other expenses to go with it the costs may weigh up against cost of petrol etc

On their website they offer a standard distance which you can enter

RacoonQueen

golfer555 wrote: »

On their website they offer a standard distance which you can enter

ah ok..must be only back this year. €69 though...I paid 80 for entry to the half in Dungannon...

johcondar

Hi All
Just to be up front John Wallnutt here and I was the Race Director for Triathy this year. I don’t usually go on boards but someone mentioned there were comments about the race and some of them a bit unfair. I did read over them all and in general I would say there is very little that cannot be fixed and many of them are valid. Triathy or any other race in Ireland will never be ITU standard as the budget is not there to do that. I personally have raced most of the regular races around Ireland and I don’t mind saying Triathy is miles ahead of many of them. Someone mentioned the bike course was not safe ! There closed roads ! Its as safe as it gets. I raced where we are on roads busy with traffic and they are national series races ! What I did notice was that no one mentioned all the improvements I made this year. Someone mention queueing for 30 minutes at registration which is pure rubbish. We hardly had a queue at anytime so they must have sat in the loo for the first 25 minutes ! When I took over as RD my first job was to try to make the process of getting everyone to the race in good shape and not upset or annoyed by delays at registration, we did that with a Dublin based reg and Athy based reg. We needed to communicate more, answering queries, emails etc We did that ! We needed to offer a proper goodie bag ………we did that, we needed to have a medal for everyone….we did that, a better finish line experience and food…….we did that. And loads of other things that don’t need mention
Is there more to do YES and that’s a big YES. I don’t deny we need to have much better signage on the course ( signs don’t go for pee breaks or answer phones) so I hear you on that and the signage needs to be so good we don’t need a steward . I know from racing its easier to read a sign than hear a steward shouting something at me. So the Bike and run course will have this next year. I need to get the transition into one big location on good flat surface but this might be a hard one. I also need to look at the timings. In previous years there were a lot of people left standing around for hours waiting to start getting cold/ bored and I wanted to try to avoid this. The rolling swim start worked very well but I put the Olympic race out before the sprint and they all ended up on the bike and run together I will swop there around next year so there are less on the course at any one time. There will always be a peak time in the race where it gets busy and I just need to work out how best to time it. As regards the swim course there is not much we can do about lead swimmers coming into back markers which is what its like for most in every race but we might be able to move the first turn mark further up the river. I will have to check that but in fairness It’s the first time its been mentioned. There are other bits that need tightening up also. The other main item is stewarding as this is where I am trying to get a triathlon club involved with triathletes who know what they are doing or need to say etc. Hopefully I will get one or 2 involved for 2018 as it can be a very good fund raiser for the club.
I can tell you I have got a large volume of emails expressing that they had a fantastic race and loved every minute. For every 20 there might be 1 negative comment. Its going in the right direction and will be a much higher standard again next year. ! I think I have fixed a lot of things that matter to all but still need to fix some items that only 15% / 20% will even notice but it will still make it a better race and experience for all. We had 2,100 athletes enter and 1850 compete and I would say 1750+ went away happy but I would rather 1850 went away happy. It is one of the very very few race that offers 40km of closed roads. As one political party put it once A LOT DONE MORE TO DO !

The Scullster

Fair play John for coming on and defending your efforts. I have always praised the Dublin City Triathlon, as its one of my favourite races, so I do believe you are trying hard to perfect this race. You have defended your race well and held your hands up on improvements that need to be made. Competitiors can't ask for much more that that and I bet the race will be much improved next year.

The criticism very much comes from the more elite side of the field who can have higher standards than your normal leisure triathlete. As I said in a previous post, most of my club were delighted with it - so that just echoes the feedback you are getting. In saying that, I think when 4 out of the top 10 men in the Double Olympic (that I know of) go badly wrong, resulting in one losing the race and another almost messing up a top finish then its fair to say that criticism is justified.

johcondar wrote: »

Someone mentioned the bike course was not safe

Obviously with the closed roads it was not the cars that were dangerous it was the slower moving cyclists. The speed difference was huge coming close to town where it was all bunching up on the second lap finish of the Double. Closed roads are great but cars don't usually become obstacles like other cyclists. Give me open roads and clear roads ahead anyday. (obviously the preference would be for closed roads and clear roads ahead)

johcondar wrote: »

annoyed by delays at registration, we did that with a Dublin based reg and Athy based reg. We needed to communicate more, answering queries, emails etc We did that ! We needed to offer a proper goodie bag, we needed to have a medal for everyone….we did that, a better finish line experience and food…….we did that.

My experience of registration - excellent with no delay at all. This was very well marshaled too with lots of people directing on the roads and pointing out parking. Of all things, registration was not the thing for people to kick up a fuss over. Again, in saying that, registration is probably the least important aspect of a race for me. Call me old fashioned, but for me it's all about the race and not the added extras. All those improvements you mentioned are things that don't interest me at all.

It is the basic fundamentals of racing that interest me. The constant running into back markers on the swim, cycle and run is what is the problem, not whether you get a finishing medal. It all boils down to too many people on the course at the same time. This indicates that profits might be more important than race experience. I don't believe for a second the TriAthy course can accommodate a large number of people on the course at once; especially the run course. You say that it is probably just a timing issue. Maybe it is.

Again that is only my opinion. Opinions can be wrong. As you said, the vast majority of people at the race had no problem at all and really enjoyed the day.

One last general comment on critiquing races...
People shouldn't have to pay sizeable entry fees for works in progress. If the entry fee for a race is low I wouldn't expect much and I wouldn't complain. The higher the price the higher the expectations. Also, if it is a club race then I would tend to go a lot easier on the race. TriAthy is a For Profit race with no triathlon club involved (hopefully changes next year); so is fair game for criticism in my view. Harsh but thats how I feel on these matters.

Casula

johcondar wrote: »

Hi All
Just to be up front John Wallnutt here and I was the Race Director for Triathy this year. I don’t usually go on boards but someone mentioned there were comments about the race and some of them a bit unfair. I did read over them all and in general I would say there is very little that cannot be fixed and many of them are valid. Triathy or any other race in Ireland will never be ITU standard as the budget is not there to do that. I personally have raced most of the regular races around Ireland and I don’t mind saying Triathy is miles ahead of many of them. Someone mentioned the bike course was not safe ! There closed roads ! Its as safe as it gets. I raced where we are on roads busy with traffic and they are national series races ! What I did notice was that no one mentioned all the improvements I made this year. Someone mention queueing for 30 minutes at registration which is pure rubbish. We hardly had a queue at anytime so they must have sat in the loo for the first 25 minutes ! When I took over as RD my first job was to try to make the process of getting everyone to the race in good shape and not upset or annoyed by delays at registration, we did that with a Dublin based reg and Athy based reg. We needed to communicate more, answering queries, emails etc We did that ! We needed to offer a proper goodie bag ………we did that, we needed to have a medal for everyone….we did that, a better finish line experience and food…….we did that. And loads of other things that don’t need mention
Is there more to do YES and that’s a big YES. I don’t deny we need to have much better signage on the course ( signs don’t go for pee breaks or answer phones) so I hear you on that and the signage needs to be so good we don’t need a steward . I know from racing its easier to read a sign than hear a steward shouting something at me. So the Bike and run course will have this next year. I need to get the transition into one big location on good flat surface but this might be a hard one. I also need to look at the timings. In previous years there were a lot of people left standing around for hours waiting to start getting cold/ bored and I wanted to try to avoid this. The rolling swim start worked very well but I put the Olympic race out before the sprint and they all ended up on the bike and run together I will swop there around next year so there are less on the course at any one time. There will always be a peak time in the race where it gets busy and I just need to work out how best to time it. As regards the swim course there is not much we can do about lead swimmers coming into back markers which is what its like for most in every race but we might be able to move the first turn mark further up the river. I will have to check that but in fairness It’s the first time its been mentioned. There are other bits that need tightening up also. The other main item is stewarding as this is where I am trying to get a triathlon club involved with triathletes who know what they are doing or need to say etc. Hopefully I will get one or 2 involved for 2018 as it can be a very good fund raiser for the club.
I can tell you I have got a large volume of emails expressing that they had a fantastic race and loved every minute. For every 20 there might be 1 negative comment. Its going in the right direction and will be a much higher standard again next year. ! I think I have fixed a lot of things that matter to all but still need to fix some items that only 15% / 20% will even notice but it will still make it a better race and experience for all. We had 2,100 athletes enter and 1850 compete and I would say 1750+ went away happy but I would rather 1850 went away happy. It is one of the very very few race that offers 40km of closed roads. As one political party put it once A LOT DONE MORE TO DO !

Another one here John who enjoyed the race. Not perfect as you admit but it has improved immensely over the last couple of years. Closed roads at that price is not something many races offer here or overseas. Keep up the good work...!

thejaguar

johcondar wrote: »

Hi All
Just to be up front John Wallnutt here........

I didn't make it to Athy this year, but it's a race that's been improving steadily over recent years.
On the basis of your post here John, I'll be there next year 100% - really refreshing to see such a well thought out, considered and honest reply about the hard work that's gone in and will continue.

Now, if you could just organise someone to take my bike home so I can go on the beer afterwards......

johcondar

sorry i dont know how to insert the quotes !
Shane......
It is the basic fundamentals of racing that interest me. The constant running into back markers on the swim, cycle and run is what is the problem, not whether you get a finishing medal. It all boils down to too many people on the course at the same time. This indicates that profits might be more important than race experience. I don't believe for a second the TriAthy course can accommodate a large number of people on the course at once; especially the run course. You say that it is probably just a timing issue. Maybe it is.

I would completely disagree ..........if I can get 1000 athletes around the 8km DCT course and it wins race of the year I can get 1800 around a 40km / 20km course. more space in Athy, As I said I just need to get the timings right. I tried to make sure i felt like you were in a race and not out there on your own but this did cause a jam packed Run course which I will fix. Its disappointing you think its all just about a profit but at the same time you would be surprized at the cost of running such a big event.

Shane..........
People shouldn't have to pay sizeable entry fees for works in progress. If the entry fee for a race is low I wouldn't expect much and I wouldn't complain. The higher the price the higher the expectations. Also, if it is a club race then I would tend to go a lot easier on the race. TriAthy is a For Profit race with no triathlon club involved (hopefully changes next year); so is fair game for criticism in my view. Harsh but thats how I feel on these matters.
reply ......
Not harsh its a fair point but all races are open to criticism, There is one Olympic race charging €90 for entry this year. Our entry fees are fair and if you enter early are one of the cheapest around. you would be silly to think all races are not for profit, they are but the profit is usually going back into a club. Triology Club earned a very large figure over the time they stewarded the race and this year we handed over €15,000 to local clubs who helped steward the race from swim, reg , bike, run and finish line. If I had a Triathlon club to replace most of this they would get something similar. This argument that its a 'for profit race' is really just a non argument. I would say TRiATHY supports more sporting clubs, and bring a bigger ODM to TI than half of the National series races added together. take away the 600 or so ODM at €25 ( €15,000) that are paid to TI and your governing body lose a big slice of income. So lets ALL get beyond this silly argument about for profit races of any sort !
Races run by Tri clubs SHOULD BE of a higher standard as they are being run and organised by triathlon clubs and are fair game for even harsher criticism as they should not what they are doing ?

In closing I would say I hope to have loads of improvements next year and due to your experience this year I would like to invite you back next year if it suits your schedule as a guest and you can select what distance you would like to do. I can't be fairer than that !

zico10

johcondar,

It's great that you came on here and engaged with this thread and even better that you'll say act upon some of the concerns raised. But I still have a few issues with your post. Firstly, I don't think anybody has complained about delays or queues at registration for this year's event. The thread goes back to 2016, so perhaps you read some gripes from back then. Registration was very smooth and quick for me and giving people the option of registering in Dublin was a great initiative and no doubt very helpful to many.

No offence intended, but telling us it's a safe course because it's on closed roads is burying your head in the sand. Many people, participating in all three races, have pointed out exactly where it was extremely unsafe and if the race continues to have hundreds of cyclists on both sides of a road on which hundreds of runners are also racing, then, closed roads or not, it's only a matter of time before there is a serious accident.

But as you say for the vast majority of those racing, it was a very positive experience. And credit where credit is due, there's definitely been improvements upon when I last raced Athy in 2015, but I'll wait to see what the feedback is on next year's races before I return.

johcondar

zico10 wrote: »

johcondar,

No offence intended, but telling us it's a safe course because it's on closed roads is burying your head in the sand. Many people, participating in all three races, have pointed out exactly where it was extremely unsafe and if the race continues to have hundreds of cyclists on both sides of a road on which hundreds of runners are also racing, then, closed roads or not, it's only a matter of time before there is a serious accident.
.

No offence taken.....all comments good or bad are taken as constructive.
OK lets clear this one up.....Its generally a safer course than most as it is on closed roads ! I think that is a fair comment to make
Are there 2 way bikes? yes, does this make it unsafe ? NO unless you go over the middle / white line which in general just about all will not. Is there a section of road with a bad surface near the end / turnaround YES but this will be resurfaced for next year by the council. Is this section to narrow for 2 way traffic, NO but I do intend to bring the bike in the run out section to avoid the narrow road. IS the road wide enough to take 2 way bikes and a lane for runners YES ( 11 years without accident but thats not to say one will not happen soon) but I need to push the uphill outgoing slower bikes further over to the left ( using cones) giving the returning faster bikes a wider lane to avoid the runners and pass bikes. At the same time I am looking at different routes for the run which will avoid the bike course completely.