Am I ungrateful or actually underpaid?

Del2005

December2012 wrote: »

1. Be careful. Your employer could threaten to report you to revenue stand time over any thing. Personally I would not like to be so vulnerable and exposed.

The employer has much more to loose by reporting the OP to revenue so that threat will never happen. The OP on the other hand could try for better pay with the threat, but working conditions will be seriously impacted.

December2012

Del2005 wrote: »

The employer has much more to loose by reporting the OP to revenue so that threat will never happen. The OP on the other hand could try for better pay with the threat, but working conditions will be seriously impacted.

Sure does. But I'm more thinking if the business for any reason goes to the wall he's still vulnerable. Or he may be able to hold it over the OP in any situation. Wouldn't sit right with me.

davo10

December2012 wrote: »

Sure does. But I'm more thinking if the business for any reason goes to the wall he's still vulnerable. Or he may be able to hold it over the OP in any situation. Wouldn't sit right with me.

It's €20,000.00, cash, how on earth would it not sit right with you? How many times in your lifetime will someone hand you twenty thousand euro as a bonus? Why would the employer hold it over the op? Wouldn't it be self defeating to inform on the op?

Okay let me see if i have this right, from the end of your first year 2012 to the end of 2015 your employer has giving you a total of 65k cash under the table bonus plus, promoted you to manager with a wage of €20 per hour plus, a nice new company car, really very generous employer you work for and all that bonus was in cash.

I'm sorry but its the bonus i find hard to believe especially in Ireland when we all know what this country has gone through in the last few years but then, you didn't mention Ireland so maybe you're employ in some other country.

Really very generous employer you work for and no, you're not actually underpaid but if i was your employer and read your post that could put me in trouble with the tax revenue, i would sack you.

emeldc

Jasper Long Reaction wrote: »

Okay let me see if i have this right, from the end of your first year 2012 to the end of 2015 your employer has giving you a total of 65k cash under the table bonus plus, promoted you to manager with a wage of €20 per hour plus, a nice new company car, really very generous employer you work for and all that bonus was in cash.

I'm sorry but its the bonus i find hard to believe especially in Ireland when we all know what this country has gone through in the last few years but then, you didn't mention Ireland so maybe you're employ in some other country.

Really very generous employer you work for and no, you're not actually underpaid but if i was your employer and read your post that could put me in trouble with the tax revenue, i would sack you.

Yeah, you probably need to think that one through a bit more.

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

Yeah, you probably need to think that one through a bit more.

Sack, Fire, Axe, P45, in all honesty did you ever hear of a employee coming of the dole queue and getting a job where after the first year getting 10k bonus in cash adding up to 65k bonus in cash after three years, and complaining about it.

bren2002

Unsure10101 wrote: »

I do pay taxs,I pay my property tax,an extortionate mortgage buying in 2008,my water tax etc etc.

I wasn't going to row in here plenty of people have suggested you get this situation made legitimate.

But. Your mortgage isn't a tax. Its a commitment you entered into freely to buy a home.

emeldc

Jasper Long Reaction wrote: »

Sack, Fire, Axe, P45, in all honesty did you ever hear of a employee coming of the dole queue and getting a job where after the first year getting 10k bonus in cash adding up to 65k bonus in cash after three years, and complaining about it.

And you think as his employer, after paying him all that cash, and just because he posts anonymously on t'interweb that it would be benificial to you to sack him

pilgrim pat

suck it up don;'t you remember what its like on the dole the next recession is just around the corner its going to be a lot worse the banks are f****d stick your cash in the mattress and thank god you have a reason to get out of bed

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

And you think as his employer, after paying him all that cash, and just because he posts anonymously on t'interweb that it would be benificial to you to sack him

Well first of all im not his employer but be real, what employer would pay a new employee just after joining his of her company at the end of their first year, 10k.

December2012

davo10 wrote: »

It's €20,000.00, cash, how on earth would it not sit right with you? How many times in your lifetime will someone hand you twenty thousand euro as a bonus? Why would the employer hold it over the op? Wouldn't it be self defeating to inform on the op?

Because it's a tax dodge with risks. And it's illegal. It's not worth the worry I would have. That's why it wouldn't sit right for me. If I was lucky enough to be offered such a bonus I would still be happy with that sum subjected to tax. You could maybe at claim the small gift exemption ( is it still €3000??) and then tax the remaining 17000. Even paying the higher rate of tax you still get a nice payday.

emeldc

Jasper Long Reaction wrote: »

Well first of all im not his employer but be real, what employer would pay a new employee just after joining his of her company at the end of their first year, 10k.

Someone who wants to avoid paying 8.5% employers PRSI.
Someone who wants to pay €10k to the employee but avoid putting €20k through the books. I'm just replying to what you wrote.
We have all done a nixer here and there where you receive a token payment for your time, and that's usually spent on a night out but I still think the OP would be better off working somewhere else before it catches up with him.

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

Someone who wants to avoid paying 8.5% employers PRSI.
Someone who wants to pay €10k to the employee but avoid putting €20k through the books. I'm just replying to what you wrote.
We have all done a nixer here and there where you receive a token payment for your time, and that's usually spent on a night out but I still think the OP would be better off working somewhere else before it catches up with him.

True very true, but the OP has posted he wasn't expecting any bonus and as i have post, what i find hard to believe is his post about bonus.

Have you ever heard of any employer in Ireland that has giving their employee after their first year a bonus of 10k, infact any year of employment unless they're a politician, pay by the tax revenue by the way.

emeldc

Jasper Long Reaction wrote: »

True very true, but the OP has posted he wasn't expecting any bonus and as i have post, what i find hard to believe is his post about bonus.

Have you ever heard of any employer in Ireland that has giving their employee after their first year a bonus of 10k, infact any year of employment unless they're a politician, pay by the tax revenue by the way.

I would agree with you that it is probably unusual to receive such cash bonuses in the paye sector but it is naive to think that it wouldn't happen at all. I would say most cash is paid on a casual day here or there. The revenue keep a lid on this by carrying unannounced spot checks of which I have had a couple. For me the expense of being caught isn't worth it.

ZeroThreat

I assume OP isn't making large cash lodgements of his bonuses to the bank then?

Whyohwhy?

RainyDay wrote: »

Unless of course, the taxman compares the level of employees/activities/raw materials used by this business against those of its competitors in the industry, and notices a significant discrepancy with the declared level of income/profit.

Or unless the taxman compares the declared salaries paid to employees against industry norms, and notices discrepancies.

Or unless a disgruntled employee decides to report his current or former employer to Revenue for revenge purposes.

It's just a matter of time really.

I get what you're saying, but it's food, very very easy to hide money.
Say 20 tons of whatever comes in, 12 ton on the books, nearly the rest goes out cash. How do you explain the discrepancies? simple:spoilage...

This guys been at it for over 20 years, he'd have been caught out at this stage I'd imagine.

I've worked in the food industry plenty over the years in various roles, cash top ups for wages and the like are par for the course, never not seen it happen, ever actually. I guarantee you 99.99% of takeaways/chippers/pizza places only run about 60% of their takings through the right channels.

RainyDay

Whyohwhy? wrote: »

I get what you're saying, but it's food, very very easy to hide money.
Say 20 tons of whatever comes in, 12 ton on the books, nearly the rest goes out cash. How do you explain the discrepancies? simple:spoilage...

Do you think Revenue are that dumb? Their immediate answer is 'Interesting - so you have 40% spoilage when your peers normally have 10%-15% - now why would that be?. Let's look closer at what is going on here. '

Whyohwhy? wrote: »

This guys been at it for over 20 years, he'd have been caught out at this stage I'd imagine.

I've worked in the food industry plenty over the years in various roles, cash top ups for wages and the like are par for the course, never not seen it happen, ever actually. I guarantee you 99.99% of takeaways/chippers/pizza places only run about 60% of their takings through the right channels.

I know nothing about the food industry, except from the other side of the counter. Your comments don't surprise me too much, and I'll remember it the next time I hear our local chipper owner moaning about tax and public services. But really, it's just a matter of time before Revenue decide to focus on chippers or pizza places or whatever, as they have done on other sectors from time to time. You really can't hide money these days.

Asmooh

You are really complaining about your job? I'm happy with my 27k/year...

Senna

RainyDay wrote: »

Do you think Revenue are that dumb? Their immediate answer is 'Interesting - so you have 40% spoilage when your peers normally have 10%-15% - now why would that be?. Let's look closer at what is going on here. '


I know nothing about the food industry, except from the other side of the counter. Your comments don't surprise me too much, and I'll remember it the next time I hear our local chipper owner moaning about tax and public services. But really, it's just a matter of time before Revenue decide to focus on chippers or pizza places or whatever, as they have done on other sectors from time to time. You really can't hide money these days.

Spoilage could account for some, but what actually happens is a kg of a food type does not equate to a set sales amount.
Take a hotel, chicken breast in a curry in the bar, €11.00. Chicken breast in restaurant €18.00, chicken breast at a wedding €27.50.

Revenue cannot possibly know, even the head chef has a hard time working out food percentages never mind a third party.

davo10

God almighty, with all these posts about food and spoilage it's hard to seperate the cabbages from the people living in the real world. All of you who are posting about Revenue as if they were Big Brother watching over every corporate accounting office, and chastising the op for taking cash, take a break from yourself.

Cash is still the preferred currency for every transaction. That's the way it is, that's the ways it's been since time began. All you do goodies who have a leaky sink, if the plumber comes out and says its €50 cash or €80 cheque, you give him €50 cash unless you are a moron you likes giving away more money than you need to. You are no better or worse than the op or his employer. The vast majority of wages are levied so it is nice to receive unincumbered remuneration for your labour the same way it is nice to pay an unlevied/discounted rate for devices received.

RainyDay

Senna wrote: »

Spoilage could account for some, but what actually happens is a kg of a food type does not equate to a set sales amount.
Take a hotel, chicken breast in a curry in the bar, €11.00. Chicken breast in restaurant €18.00, chicken breast at a wedding €27.50.

Revenue cannot possibly know, even the head chef has a hard time working out food percentages never mind a third party.

They don't look at a unit level, they look at the business level. They have built excellent data analysis systems to allow them to do sectoral analysis, and see which businesses are the odd ones out.

davo10

RainyDay wrote: »

They don't look at a unit level, they look at the business level. They have built excellent data analysis systems to allow them to do sectoral analysis, and see which businesses are the odd ones out.

What are the chances of that company being audited and as Revenue don't usually go back more than one year, what are the chances of the op being caught?

Avatar MIA

Senna wrote: »

Revenue cannot possibly know, even the head chef has a hard time working ouood percentages never mind a third party.

Very few public sector agencies are efficient. Revenue are, relatively so at least. They apply ratios (gathereed from a vast array of tax returns) to ascertain if everything seems ligit.

My money is on Revenue. The company has to be lucky every year, whereas Revenue only have to be lucky once.

davo10

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Very few public sector agencies are efficient. Revenue are, relatively so at least. They apply ratios (gathereed from a vast array of tax returns) to ascertain if everything seems ligit.

My money is on Revenue. The company has to be lucky every year, whereas Revenue only have to be lucky once.

Let's say for argument sake this is the food industry, considering the tens of thousands of eateries and suppliers plus the employers ability to hide money off the books, my money is on the op, big time.

Senna

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Very few public sector agencies are efficient. Revenue are, relatively so at least. They apply ratios (gathereed from a vast array of tax returns) to ascertain if everything seems ligit.

My money is on Revenue. The company has to be lucky every year, whereas Revenue only have to be lucky once.

And I have the upmost respect for revenue and they perform unlike all other public sectors. But when talking about the service industry, they actually cannot compare like for like. I have first hand experience over 20 years and I know many many business that offer large cash payment to management off the books, it's the only reason I stayed in the industry for so long (thankfully out now). None have been caught for bonus payments.
You might not like it, but it happens.

I think what the OP has posted on a public forum especially the huge amount of cash bonus he claims to have receive from his employer will definitely have the tax revenue people talking if they read his post, maybe OP has other reasons but if all what he says is true, really silly of him to post the amount of cash bonus he has receive.

And now he has others coming on board agreeing, tax revenue investigators are going to love you OP.

Senna

A bit of reality is needed. Revenue know it goes on, they also know which industries it happens in. The problem is, it happens in business that know they can hide it, the nature of the business dictates that.

Senna

Senna wrote: »

A bit of reality is needed. Revenue know it goes on, they also know which industries it happens in. The problem is, it happens in business that know they can hide it, the nature of the business dictates that.

True a bit or lot of reality is needed but like you we're all responding to OP post, do you want us all to ignore certain parts of OP post.

RainyDay

Senna wrote: »

And I have the upmost respect for revenue and they perform unlike all other public sectors. But when talking about the service industry, they actually cannot compare like for like. I have first hand experience over 20 years and I know many many business that offer large cash payment to management off the books, it's the only reason I stayed in the industry for so long (thankfully out now). None have been caught for bonus payments.
You might not like it, but it happens.

Plenty of take-aways on the Revenue defaulter list from over the years.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=site:revenue.ie+take-away#q=site:revenue.ie+defaulter+take-away+

The idea that service industries in general and take-aways/food services in particular have some magic exemption to tax audits is slightly flawed. It's just a question of how long Revenue will take to get round to catching them.

And if they have trouble auditing the business, they will audit the person. It's not that difficult to compare declared income to house/car/holidays and highlight any discrepancies.

yourpics

I think OP is trolling, he is probably getting 2K cash bonus not 20K!