Dental Abroad

davo10

Makood.

To be fair, your experience is limited to one person, yourself. Dentists see thousands of patients a year. A very small percentage of those are patients who travel abroad for treatment but a significant proportion of those have problems associated with their treatment. No one travels abroad for fillings or having their teeth cleaned, the treatment tends to be extensive and of the type that is complex, the treatments which cost a lot and on which large savings can be made. When a tooth breaks or a filling falls out, it is easy and cheap to fix, there is little morbidity. But when an implant fails or multiple veneers fall off, it is not easy to fix, it is not cheap and there tends to be a lot of distress on the patients part.

If you take Hillmanhunters case, if he was Fitsgemes patient then he would be very upset at having paid so much and yet the treatment failed, but because it was cheap, it's ok. That is frustrating. Most people will tell others if they got a bargain but few tell if they got shafted. I've noticed that there is s degree of acceptance when things go wrong , " well it was cheap and I took a chance, so be it" but this should not be the way. As I've posted previously, Tibor dental, dental-implant Hungary and Dental Magic have all closed there doors here due to patient complaints and High Court cases taken by multiple patients. When you take the small numbers of patients travelling relative to the numbers who attend here, that is a damning indictment.

I know Hillmanhunter claims this is protectionism and self interest, it isn't. None of the posters here are patients of the Dentists who post here and when you consider the minute percentage who travel compared to the numbers who attend their local dentist, it is s nonsensical argument. For my own part, when someone tells me they are travelling abroad for treatment, I say "ok, give me a call if their are any issues" , it really doesn't matter to me.

There is no doubt that contributors here get riled up sometimes, I suppose in part that is a reaction to being goaded by a poster who seems fixated on the profession yet ironically he should have more reason than most to be unhappy with the treatment he received. It is also in part due to the fact that we too can vent here in a way we cannot or do not do face to face with a patient whose treatment is a train wreck.

Makood

Good post Stheno.

Makood

Stheno wrote: »

3. The fallout from dental tourism in the past few years is now starting to be seen, about every six months there has been an article in the media from various dental bodies and dentists all over Ireland talking about the negatives, not in cases such as Makoods who has the advantage of local knowledge in Ukraine, but in the case of two weeks in turkey/hungary replacing half your teeth. On one google search I found six articles across four different publications on the issue alone. If I was a dentist dealing with it regularly as some of the dentists here seem to be, I'd be pretty negative too. Imagine a patient coming in, who thought they were getting the best deal they could, who now has severe issues, and no recourse, having to spend again, and possibly more? What professional wants to tell someone that the choice they made caused this problem? I'd wager none.

Stheno-I posted the treatment plan I got from Hungarian dentists with a local clinic little back. As bad as my teeth are I knew this plan was not necessary and it left me in a real quandary. And, I do appreciate all the advice given here, it can be a bit condescending at times and I can understand why (to a certain degree) My case of "dental tourism" I hope, is a little different than most.

Like sweetmaggie said, I'm not here touting for business, and nor will I ever. I was only trying to tell a story of sorts, however badly I may have done that.

If I had went with the Hungarians-I have no doubt I'd be in a hell of a lot more trouble now. And that's not saying they are all bad, but that plan shocked me.

Makood

Seen a few posts lately on dental tourism. Said maybe I would give an update. Not so much about the treatment I got or will receive, but more about the people who treated and will continue to treat me. It's important to know who you are dealing with. I'll admit when I went I didn't, but I had help in my good wife.

Sergei, the surgeon, I believe, is one of the best. When I seen him 1st I was pretty scared. I don't need to explain why, as you can see. (better I don't post a picture on reflection)

I remember when I first heard the prices I would be charged for my work and was amazed. A little research showed me that Irish (or any) dentists could not even buy an implant for what I will eventually be charged for the completed job. Very confused I was. Took some time to work it all out in my head. Was it a government subsidy or because they were friends? My good wife was never to clear on the whole topic.


Sergei works in a clinic where he works 45/50 hours a week. On his weekends and holidays he goes to the Russian/Ukraine border where for free, as a volunteer, he gives his time, and expertise to the soldiers there.

Well, Ukraine is known for many things, but the two I would think of straightaway are corruption and ......(I married one).

My $$ and €€ were going to purchase dental supplies, in large quantities, for the soldiers he treated.

Whatever side you're on, or your affiliations, you can't argue that a man like this has not got peoples best interests at heart.

Dianthus

Makood wrote: »

Sergei works in a clinic where he works 45/50 hours a week. On his weekends and holidays he goes to the Russian/Ukraine border where for free, as a volunteer, he gives his time, and expertise to soldiers....Whatever side you're on, or your affiliations, you can't argue that a man like this has not got peoples best interests at heart.

That's as may be. From what you describe, he is a workaholic; for some people this can be an addiction in the same way as drugs or alcohol can be.
It's not healthy to work 7 days a week,& also spend any holiday time working also.
What about hobbies, sports, friends, family? Or is his whole identity& life simply his work?
Now I'm not saying you won't receive good treatment from the man, just that at some stage there will come a point where he will simply burn out. Everyone has to have "down time" to recharge, in any job.

Makood

Dianthus wrote: »

That's as may be. From what you describe, he is a workaholic; for some people this can be an addiction in the same way as drugs or alcohol can be.
It's not healthy to work 7 days a week,& also spend any holiday time working also.
What about hobbies, sports, friends, family? Or is his whole identity& life simply his work?
Now I'm not saying you won't receive good treatment from the man, just that at some stage there will come a point where he will simply burn out. Everyone has to have "down time" to recharge, in any job.

A fair point Dianthus. I know he is London for new year so it's not true of me to say he gets no holidays. He looked very far from a burn out though,(physically) but it may come.

Big_G

The point that all the dentists try to make on here is not that it is impossible to get good work done outside of Ireland. That is a patently absurd statement. It's not even that you won't get good work done in developing countries - there are plenty of good dentists in these countries trained to high standards. I have seen some spectacular work online from places like Hungary, Ukraine and Romania. The argument that we present is about likelihood of getting good work abroad, or management of risks. There isn't any good data available (yet) about how many people travel abroad that require remedial work. What we do have is collections of anecdotes and empirical data that point to the fact that travelling for dental work increases risks. Particularly if you travel to a clinic that specifically markets itself to tourists. None of which really applies to OP. The only positive to travelling abroad over staying in Ireland seems to be price.

This argument we present over and over again. It has only, up to now, been countered with single anecdotes, of which we are uncertain of the evidence presented because we have to take the word of anonymous posters. The evidence we present includes many anecdotes, clinical experience and photographs.

I'm glad you feel that you had good work done, it is very important. This thread isn't really about the virtues of travelling outside of Ireland for dental work. It is just an anecdote about your personal experience OP. Thank you for that, it may help some people in fear actually go to the dentist. As far as its value in helping someone determine whether to travel abroad or not, it probably has none because people are unlikely to travel to the Ukraine, are unlikely to speak the language or wish to risk the security situation, visas etc.

Makood

Big_G wrote: »

The point that all the dentists try to make on here is not that it is impossible to get good work done outside of Ireland. That is a patently absurd statement. It's not even that you won't get good work done in developing countries - there are plenty of good dentists in these countries trained to high standards. I have seen some spectacular work online from places like Hungary, Ukraine and Romania. The argument that we present is about likelihood of getting good work abroad, or management of risks. There isn't any good data available (yet) about how many people travel abroad that require remedial work. What we do have is collections of anecdotes and empirical data that point to the fact that travelling for dental work increases risks. Particularly if you travel to a clinic that specifically markets itself to tourists. None of which really applies to OP. The only positive to travelling abroad over staying in Ireland seems to be price.

This argument we present over and over again. It has only, up to now, been countered with single anecdotes, of which we are uncertain of the evidence presented because we have to take the word of anonymous posters. The evidence we present includes many anecdotes, clinical experience and photographs.

I'm glad you feel that you had good work done, it is very important. This thread isn't really about the virtues of travelling outside of Ireland for dental work. It is just an anecdote about your personal experience OP. Thank you for that, it may help some people in fear actually go to the dentist. As far as its value in helping someone determine whether to travel abroad or not, it probably has none because people are unlikely to travel to the Ukraine, are unlikely to speak the language or wish to risk the security situation, visas etc.

Thanks BigG-I won't claim to have had great work done just yet, but I'm very confident that by the time it's all over I will have.

I never intended this as an advertisement for dental abroad and have already refused by PM to disclose the name of the clinics I visited. Apart from all the travel and language barriers, I won't take responsibility for something going wrong (and it can) with such a distance to travel to be re-treated.

Makood

How dare the mods delete a posters wonderful experience of getting the excellent price of the work being carried out on them as they lie on the chair. In Mexico... And also the satisfaction of said poster.

In fairness, mods, you should leave it here as a warning.

davo10

Makood wrote: »

How dare the mods delete a posters wonderful experience of getting the excellent prices of the work being carried out on them as they lie on the chair. In Mexico. And also the satisfaction of said poster.

Given the fact that an implant takes a minimum 3 visits, who travels to Mexico three times for an implant? A bit of trolling maybe or someone not based in Ireland?

Makood

davo10 wrote: »

Given the fact that an implant takes a minimum 3 visits, who travels to Mexico three times for an implant? A bit of trolling maybe or someone not based in Ireland?

That was my point. Leave the post, but maybe delete the reference to the "clinic"

davo10

Makood wrote: »

That was my point. Leave the post, but maybe delete the reference to the "clinic"

Agreed, it was a strange post though. It's not unknown for US people to post on boards thinking it is a US site. It comes up from time to time in consumer/accomadation/legal threads and I'm sure many more.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Makood wrote: »

How dare the mods delete a posters wonderful experience of getting the excellent price of the work being carried out on them as they lie on the chair. In Mexico... And also the satisfaction of said poster.

In fairness, mods, you should leave it here as a warning.

Please dont be so naive, that poster was a single post spammer, using the forum for back linking. Makood Infraction for back seat moderation, which is expressly against forum rules.

If people need warning then these threads will suffice:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057613357
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61257018
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76902766

greensheep777

Makood wrote: »

Not being one who is interested in arguments etc, and appreciating all the advice given, i suggest this thread be closed for a year. Mods can re-open?

Makood wrote: »

I completely agree with your conclusion. But this thread is only going one way. So I'm suggesting close it for a year and I can update then.

Makood wrote: »

Yes, that is a risk. I have made a decision to take that risk. Again, maybe it's better I update here in a year-I have nothing much to say rather that the work I am getting done. See how it is after that might be a better idea, good or bad.

I happened to stumble across this thread while searching for something else. How are you getting on with your teeth these days Makood?