Brexit Referendum Superthread

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

It was on Newsnight last night if anyone wants to watch. The tone of the interview and tone of the answer are not at all demonstrative of a softening!

Its just Brexiter wishful thinking. Its amazing that the people who want to leave, don't seem to get the consequences, and seem unwilling to accept them. There still living in fantasy land.

If they go into negotiations thinking that way, there going to be very disappointed. I am sure they will try and blame the EU, and accuse them of bullying and other such childish nonsense. You even see a bit of that already.

Patser

wes wrote: »

If Boris, doesn't run, then the man is a pathetic coward. Its his mess, to sort out FFS.

Cynical thought, but could this be a way of getting Boris off the hook. It splits his support, makes it unlikely he'll get the PM (and have to clean up the mess) but still let's him say he tried.

Gove gave no hint before that he wanted the PM job, or mistrusted Boris.

Chips Lovell

Yep. If Johnson is really smart, he'd make sure someone else won the leadership contest. There's going to be nothing good about being the next PM. As Cameron reportedly said before he resigned, "why should I be the one who has to do all the hard s**t".

The contest you'd want to win is the next one after this.

CMOTDibbler

Patser wrote: »

Cynical thought, but could this be a way of getting Boris off the hook. It splits his support, makes it unlikely he'll get the PM (and have to clean up the mess) but still let's him say he tried.

Gove gave no hint before that he wanted the PM job, or mistrusted Boris.

The leaked email to Gove from his wife (she sent it to the wrong email address ) gives a good indication:

"Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth [Mr Gove's media advisers] with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will [Daily Mail editor Paul] Dacre/[Rupert] Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

Chips Lovell

Half an hour left for Johnson to throw his hat in the ring.

wes

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The contest you'd want to win is the next one after this.

I doubt the fallout and the mess would be completely sorted out even then. Maybe after that one, things may be some what settled for the UK.

swampgas

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Half an hour left for Johnson to throw his hat in the ring.

Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. His whole demeanour since the result came out has been one of defeat.

*Edit*
Wrong again Boris just announced leadership bid.

May was quite excellent earlier I thought.

Pro Hoc Vice

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Half an hour left for Johnson to throw his hat in the ring.

Live on BBC website at the moment. It is new Conservative or Labour Light!

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

That depends on the degree of desired regulation. Taking an extreme example, an immigrant who wishes to see closed borders is something of a hypocrite, are they not? They can benefit from migrating, but nobody else can?

Of course.

But nobody in any position of authority is calling for closed borders. Any commentary I have seen in favour of controlling migration, has favoured a tighter, more competitive process.

Completely closed borders and completely open borders are both extremist positions, neither of which have popular support.

There is no logical reason to single-out migrants as having some kind of rational or moral obligation to support liberal border controls. It's one of the non sequitur clangers of the Remain campaign.

Boris throws his hat out of the ring.

Cowardice? "You Break it, You Own It" ignored.

Presto: the dog catches the car. And, of course, it has no idea now what to do with this car. There is no plan. There is just barking.

Chips Lovell

Gove to be the patsy.

Nody

Deleted User wrote: »

Boris throws his hat out of the ring.

Cowardice? "You Break it, You Own It" ignored.

I'd argue brains; Boris knows what the work ahead would be in terms of killing his political career.

Nody

Nody wrote: »

I'd argue brains; Boris knows what the work ahead would be in terms of killing his political career.

And that the work behind him will have done a seriously good job of doing that already.

Padster90s

If anyone wants a good laugh and cheering up give a read to the comments on Brexit articles on the Daily Express website. Delusional doesn't even come close to it!

CMOTDibbler

Nody wrote: »

I'd argue brains; Boris knows what the work ahead would be in terms of killing his political career.

I'd agree with that. His demeanour after the result was not unlike Cameron's. As said above, the dog caught the car and it hurts.

Harry Palmr

Boris Johnson blew his own career within the party the moment he backed Brexit, Theresa May to be next party leader and next PM.

Woodville56

Boris - rat and sinking ship !

Nody

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Boris Johnson blew his own career within the party the moment he backed Brexit, Theresa May to be next party leader and next PM.

He blew it when backing Brexit and Brexit won I'd argue; if Brexit had lost by a small margin he'd be in a good position.

Harry Palmr

Ha maybe so yes. This is turning into the worse political victory ever.

Harika

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ha maybe so yes. This is turning into the worse political victory ever.

In future the dictionary might be expanded with the Brexit as perfect example of a Pyrrhic victory

CMOTDibbler

Nody wrote: »

He blew it when backing Brexit and Brexit won I'd argue; if Brexit had lost by a small margin he'd be in a good position.

I'm not sure how that would have worked out for him. Cameron wouldn't have resigned for a start.

Patser

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure how that would have worked out for him. Cameron wouldn't have resigned for a start.

Yet.

Boris was looking 2 years down the line, to when Cameron would've been 8 years in the position, people would be looking for an alternative and Boris would've positioned himself as the candidate with the different approach.

Now he's just Nero, who cricketed while London (markets) burned, and has refused to take any responsibility

Nody

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure how that would have worked out for him. Cameron wouldn't have resigned for a start.

Gives him (up to) three years to work on the electorate to ensure he'd go over in the leadership challenge ahead when the no voters complain; also allows him to set himself up as the person who could harness both the no votes and the core votes.

mansize

I don't think anyone in the Leave camp actually thought they'd win!
Who are they going to blame for all their failings now???

LiamoSail

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure how that would have worked out for him. Cameron wouldn't have resigned for a start.

It'd have enhanced his Euro sceptic credentials among the notoriously Eurosceptic members, leaving him in a strong position when Cameron did eventually go. In such a scenario,he'd have had the support of many of the Beexiters, while had remain one, it's unlikely he'd have alienated too many of the remain campaigners

djpbarry

LiamoSail wrote: »

Irrespective of why they voted leave, and I'd be inclined to believe xenophobia played a bigger part than you credit, Farage was a part of it.

There’s a poll conducted by ComRes on the BBC website which claims that only 34% of Leave voters cited immigration as their principle reason for voting as they did:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36648769

djpbarry

Conas wrote: »

I never went to the polls and voted for the likes of Donald Tusk or Jean Claude Junker, and neither did any other Irish citizen or UK citizen for that matter.

So what? Nobody in the UK voted for the queen.

The idea that the EU is fundamentally less democratic than its constituent states is nonsense.

Conas wrote: »

It's actually not in free fall now. Over the last three days, it has remained stable .

The pound may be stable, but it’s lost 10% of its value. Further losses are still possible (some would say likely).

Conas wrote: »

The FTSE is after rebounding incredibly strong, it's now at the same level it was before the sudden plunge.

How’s the FTSE250 doing? Even the ToryGraph is telling us to ignore the FTSE100 and focus on the FTSE250:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/27/why-we-should-be-looking-at-the-ftse-250-and-not-the-ftse-100-to

djpbarry

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But nobody in any position of authority is calling for closed borders. Any commentary I have seen in favour of controlling migration, has favoured a tighter, more competitive process.

To be fair, Farage pretty much is. He talks about a points-based system, but realistically, this would scarcely have any effect on migration figures.

He’s talking about severely restricting migration to bring it down to the tens of thousands. That might not mean a completely closed border, but it means keeping it only slightly ajar.

LiamoSail

I don't know much about Theresa May, but I found her conduct during the recent Brexit campaign to be abhorrent.

She had no courage in her convictions, and didn't campaign in what was the biggest question put to the British people in recent history. Instead she hid, took shelter and protected her own political future. That's not leadership