Brexit Referendum Superthread

LiamoSail

djpbarry wrote: »

There’s a poll conducted by ComRes on the BBC website which claims that only 34% of Leave voters cited immigration as their principle reason for voting as they did:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36648769

That's an interesting read, thanks for the link.

34% citing immigration obviously isn't a majority, but still a significant portion

djpbarry

djpbarry wrote: »

To be fair, Farage pretty much is. He talks about a points-based system, but realistically, this would scarcely have any effect on migration figures.

Total rubbish.

You cannot credibly claim that cutting net inward migration from 300,000 to below 100,000 is "closed borders".

It's a substantial decrease, not closed borders. Why are you exaggerating?

Snip: Quoted posts subsequently deleted by mods

K-9

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's an interesting read, thanks for the link.

34% citing immigration obviously isn't a majority, but still a significant portion

Was just reading a Guardian piece about leave.EU and they thought it was the biggest issue by far, either directly or indirectly. People probably don't want to say it in a poll.

K-9

Mod:

Posts that are just abusing politicians will be deleted.

Bob24

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's an interesting read, thanks for the link.

34% citing immigration obviously isn't a majority, but still a significant portion

Because you are not happy with immigration policies doesn't make you xenophobic though - so we are talking a fraction of 34%.

swampgas

Interesting piece by Gary Younge in The Guardian.
Pretty accurate in my opinion, even if he completely glosses over the influence of the media.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making

K-9

Bob24 wrote: »

Because you are not happy with immigration policies doesn't make you xenophobic though - so we are talking a fraction of 34%.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage?CMP=share_btn_tw

Immigration was the leave campaigns biggest message though, schools will be better, hospitals less over crowded etc.

I think when the main donor to the leave campaign is basically saying twas immigration stupid people have to listen. I'd say it is much higher than 34%, people are a bit embarrassed in saying it.

But I agree with you, people can have genuine concerns about levels of immigration and not be xenophobic, it's ridiculous and lazy to dismiss it as such.

murphaph

LiamoSail wrote: »

That's an interesting read, thanks for the link.

34% citing immigration obviously isn't a majority, but still a significant portion

And it's a taboo for many people so I reckon the figure is at least that if not a good bit higher. Brexit with free movement of people like Norway is not what the vast majority of Brexiters voted for IMO and would be a very hard sell.

Bob24

K-9 wrote: »

I'd say it is much higher than 34%, people are a bit embarrassed in saying it.

But I agree with you, people can have genuine concerns about levels of immigration and not be xenophobic, it's ridiculous and lazy to dismiss it as such.

Fair point - and actually the 2 things are linked. If people think they will be called racist or xenophobic when they raise concerns about immigration policies, they will stop talking about it but it won't change the way they think and vote.

Lemming

K-9 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage?CMP=share_btn_tw

Immigration was the leave campaigns biggest message though, schools will be better, hospitals less over crowded etc.

I think when the main donor to the leave campaign is basically saying twas immigration stupid people have to listen. I'd say it is much higher than 34%, people are a bit embarrassed in saying it.

But I agree with you, people can have genuine concerns about levels of immigration and not be xenophobic, it's ridiculous and lazy to dismiss it as such.

Taken from your link K-9;

The Guardian Newspaper wrote:

Banks has been credited with professionalising Ukip’s referendum push through the Leave.EU campaign. He deployed senior executives and staff from his insurance companies and hired the Washington DC political campaign strategy firm Goddard Gunster on a multimillion-pound fee to sharpen its message.

“It was taking an American-style media approach,” said Banks. “What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”

Well, that fits... so the largest campaign donor has freely admitted to the entire campaign being a dirty smear/spin campaign. Wow.

djpbarry

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Total rubbish.

You cannot credibly claim that cutting net inward migration from 300,000 to below 100,000 is "closed borders".

I’ve heard Farage use a figure of 20,000 as a target for net migration – that’s a reduction of over 90%.

How does that not represent a significant closing of the borders?

djpbarry

Bob24 wrote: »

Because you are not happy with immigration policies doesn't make you xenophobic though - so we are talking a fraction of 34%.

True, but the inverse correlation between the number of immigrants in an area and the tendency of that area to vote Leave does strongly hint at a fear of the unknown.

djpbarry

K-9 wrote: »

But I agree with you, people can have genuine concerns about levels of immigration and not be xenophobic, it's ridiculous and lazy to dismiss it as such.

True, but so-called legitimate concerns about immigration are often complaints about public services. Sub-standard service provision might be exacerbated by an increasing population, regardless of where that increase comes from, but the problem is the poor service, not the people availing of it.

LiamoSail

Bob24 wrote: »

Because you are not happy with immigration policies doesn't make you xenophobic though - so we are talking a fraction of 34%.

And because you don't see immigration as the primary issue doesn't mean you're not xenophobic. So we're still talking about a portion of the 100%

K-9

djpbarry wrote: »

True, but so-called legitimate concerns about immigration are often complaints about public services. Sub-standard service provision might be exacerbated by an increasing population, regardless of where that increase comes from, but the problem is the poor service, not the people availing of it.

Well yes, or an aging population, but the leave campaign wasn't quite as nuanced as that!

Enzokk

swampgas wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't. His whole demeanour since the result came out has been one of defeat.

*Edit*
Wrong again Boris just announced leadership bid.

You shouldn't have edited your post...:D

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Boris Johnson blew his own career within the party the moment he backed Brexit, Theresa May to be next party leader and next PM.

LiamoSail wrote: »

I don't know much about Theresa May, but I found her conduct during the recent Brexit campaign to be abhorrent.

She had no courage in her convictions, and didn't campaign in what was the biggest question put to the British people in recent history. Instead she hid, took shelter and protected her own political future. That's not leadership

Theresa May played this like Boris wished he had, she played a blinder. She was never a face of the remain campaign so you aren't sure what her views were. Seeing that her department had those vans driving around and she must have been cursing the EU for not allowing her to deport suspects it would have been interesting to know what she really thought.

Labour is a absolute mess at the moment and I cannot see how JC can realistically survive, or run a election campaign where the party wouldn't be smashed by the Tories or UKIP. They have lost the immigration vote, they have lost any support in Scotland and they have a leader who didn't stick to his own principles on the EU.

His biggest problem is that there are more evidence appearing that he has antisemitic views. His failure to act today speaks as much as Boris Johnson not running for leader of his party. Words are hollow if you don't back it up by actions. This is twice now where he hasn't backed up his words by action.

Huffington Post link to story

Daily Mail link to story

CMOTDibbler

Mark Carney says that the Bank of England had a plan to deal with the uncertainty. He placed unusual emphasis on the Bank of England part of that sentence. :rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Enzokk wrote: »

His biggest problem is that there are more evidence appearing that he has antisemitic views.

Par for the course with the hard left. If/when Corbyn leaves I'd put money on him doing lucrative "interviews" in a Russian state tv studio within a month.

Dohnjoe

The consummate politician

molloyjh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The consummate politician

Reminds me of when Libertas said they were never going to run for election....

wes

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Mark Carney says that the Bank of England had a plan to deal with the uncertainty. He placed unusual emphasis on the Bank of England part of that sentence. :rolleyes:

They seem to be one of the 2 groups that have a plan in fairness, so he is right to put emphasis on that.

It still astonishes me that Brexiters have no plan.

LiamoSail

Gove "knows he couldn't do the job". His words, there should be no coming back from that

CMOTDibbler

LiamoSail wrote: »

Gove "knows he couldn't do the job". His words, there should be no coming back from that

The 'Brave Sir Robin Boris' sketch from Monty Python springs to mind unbidden.

I can't see any positives for Boris here. He did run away from the mess he helped create and couldn't be found even in the Houses of Parliament. Everybody thought he was heavily involved behind the scenes at 'something' but it appears he was just hiding.

There's certainly no evidence of him actually doing anything to help sort anything out other than his own future. It's mistifying.

murphaph

Johnson thought the leave side would lose. I'm pretty sure of that.

Polo_Mint

Everyone throwing each other under the London Bus

titan18

Conas wrote: »

Scotland had their chance to be leave the UK in 2014, but were too chicken to do so.

Now tough talking Nicola Sturgeon hasn't got the result she wanted, and is intent on sabotaging the result. Scotland as a nation really needs a master, as they will 'always' be too afraid to be independent. Why Scotland and Ukraine want to relinquish so much to Brussels is truly mind-boggling.

I never went to the polls and voted for the likes of Donald Tusk or Jean Claude Junker, and neither did any other Irish citizen or UK citizen for that matter.

I never went to the polls and elected Enda Kenny, or any of our ministers. I voted for people who voted for the ministers, same as EU voting works.

J Mysterio

Britain is truly ****ed.

ancapailldorcha

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Everyone throwing each other under the London Bus

J Mysterio wrote: »

Britain is truly ****ed.

Raise the standard of posting please.

CMOTDibbler

So we have claims of treachery from the Boris camp, Theresa May says that there won't be an early general election if she becomes PM, Jeremy Corbyn is hanging around long enough to alienate pretty much every minority involved in the Labour Paty as well as most of its MPs and the Governer of the Bank of England says that there are quite a few things that the 'policy makers' need to do to shore up confidence and prevent the economy from going down the toilet.

That's enough for one day I think :rolleyes:

Tell me how

Would truly love to see a "The Thick of It" series on this or at least a special.

Malcolm Tucker would be pacing his office speechless for the first 5 minutes before he would unleash a 55 minute expletive laden summation of those involved, their logic and the potential impact on the country.
There would be swear words and phrases used that would have grown men whispering them at work the following day like young boys at the back of the school bus. :eek: