Brexit Referendum Superthread

Fratton Fred

Thomas__ wrote: »

Some other nasty things that appear to thrive since BrexitRef last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/15/beware-jews-road-sign-north-london-reported-Police

London used to be a cosmopolitan City, for all kind of people from around the world. This is one incident, but as it happened, one incident coming to another makes more in time and it is sad to see that far-right scum is breathing "fresh air" and feel encouraged to show their ugly faces wherever it pleases them. This incident is equal to me like the provocative marches of the Britain First movement going into Muslim quaters in order to "take the country back". The sign is not of the same shape like those the Nazis used back in the 1930s and 1940s, but it bears the same message which is that Jews are not welcome (to say the least) or even that the perpetrator(s) of this incident wants to send them a message which reads like "get out" and look at them like "subhumans". This is where it all started back then, and the signes - eventhough if they are not the same - bear the same message, the ugly and insane anti-semitism.

I'd agree with you there, the far right seem to be feeling braver at the moment.

was this (and the other anti Semitic attacks) by the far right though? I have a Jewish relative and to a lot in the London Jewish community, they feel their threat isn't from the traditional neo nazis at the moment.

Thomas__

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

Some other nasty things that appear to thrive since BrexitRef last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/15/beware-jews-road-sign-north-london-reported-Police

London used to be a cosmopolitan City, for all kind of people from around the world. This is one incident, but as it happened, one incident coming to another makes more in time and it is sad to see that far-right scum is breathing "fresh air" and feel encouraged to show their ugly faces wherever it pleases them. This incident is equal to me like the provocative marches of the Britain First movement going into Muslim quaters in order to "take the country back". The sign is not of the same shape like those the Nazis used back in the 1930s and 1940s, but it bears the same message which is that Jews are not welcome (to say the least) or even that the perpetrator(s) of this incident wants to send them a message which reads like "get out" and look at them like "subhumans". This is where it all started back then, and the signes - eventhough if they are not the same - bear the same message, the ugly and insane anti-semitism.

I'd agree with you there, the far right seem to be feeling braver at the moment.

was this (and the other anti Semitic attacks) by the far right though? I have a Jewish relative and to a lot in the London Jewish community, they feel their threat isn't from the traditional neo nazis at the moment.

Like in this article, it is not clear yet who was behind that incident. Normally one would search for the perpetrator in the usual places where the far-right is settled. It can - of course - be the case that someone not related to any far-right organisation was behind that but one who shares he same hate towards Jews.

Just remember the Joe Cox case, where some lonely Nazi-fanatic killed that woman by shouting "Britain First". In due course of the investigations and more so during the trial, the perpetrator turned out as someone who was a Nazi-fanatic for decades. He wasn´t on the radar of the security forces, he just felt encouraged to do his murder by riding on the wave of an increased nationalism.

murphaph

I actually don't think that sign was from any anti-Semitic group. There was only 1 sign put up and it is too subtle for your average neo-Nazi's brain. I suspect it will turn out to be an "art installation". Maybe I'm wrong and I'm underestimating these people but my gut says it will turn out to be from some hipster artist.

Fratton Fred

Thomas__ wrote: »

Like in this article, it is not clear yet who was behind that incident. Normally one would search for the perpetrator in the usual places where the far-right is settled. It can - of course - be the case that someone not related to any far-right organisation was behind that but one who shares he same hate towards Jews.

that's the thing, the usual places may no longer be the usual places. The EDL, BNP and other far right parties aren't as focused on the Jews at the moment, they seem to be obsessed with the Muslims. I'd agree with Murphaph as well, this is very high brow for them. Although putting signs in high places wouldn't be too difficult for them, with their longer than average arms

Thomas__ wrote: »

Just remember the Joe Cox case, where some lonely Nazi-fanatic killed that woman by shouting "Britain First". In due course of the investigations and more so during the trial, the perpetrator turned out as someone who was a Nazi-fanatic for decades. He wasn´t on the radar of the security forces, he just felt encouraged to do his murder by riding on the wave of an increased nationalism.

He was a complete loner as well. That is the worrying thing about increases in nationalism, it means different things to different people and there are always those that will use it as an excuse for their own hatred.

Lemming

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It must have occurred to them. Perhaps they have some secret plan that nobody knows about. Perhaps they don't believe 'experts' anymore. Perhaps their egos won't allow them to admit they're wrong. Perhaps they don't give a sh1t about the ordinary man as long as their Little Englander dream is fulfilled.

I think the real answer is mostly driven from the 'no sh1ts given' column, and a smaller amount from the ego column. In the case of May, add in parts "spineless" and "authoritarian". Certainly when you have May & Hammond talking about transforming the UK into a low wage, low tax haven, what will joe soap have to say about the dramatic savaging of quality of life & public services for anyone who isn't minted ....

Add into the mix a Trade minister embarrassment of a wee (both literally and figuratively) clown who likes to coin phrases like "Empire 2.0" and it paints an outrageously unflattering picture, not to mention fails to elicit any measure of competence.

catbear

Seems to an even mix of outrage and despondency in the reactions to Scotland potentially leaving in the UK media today.

I reckon for a good many Leave voters the air has gone from their Brexit bubble while others seem to have inflated their bubbles more.

Enzokk

So it seems like while the talk is that no deal is better than a bad deal, they don't even know what no deal will mean. Surely that means that no deal cannot mean it is better than a bad deal as you don't know how bad it would be if you have no deal.

Does this put more pressure on the UK to get a deal, no matter what the deal, as the alternative is something they haven't even looked at since the Brexit vote?


David Davis admits he has not calculated the huge costs of a no-deal Brexit

What happens when they finally look at the effects of a no deal and realize that it would be catastrophic for the country, but they have painted themselves into a corner with their rhetoric and if the deal on offer is seen as a bad deal do they then commit political suicide by accepting the deal or let the country burn?

Thomas__

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

Like in this article, it is not clear yet who was behind that incident. Normally one would search for the perpetrator in the usual places where the far-right is settled. It can - of course - be the case that someone not related to any far-right organisation was behind that but one who shares he same hate towards Jews.

that's the thing, the usual places may no longer be the usual places. The EDL, BNP and other far right parties aren't as focused on the Jews at the moment, they seem to be obsessed with the Muslims. I'd agree with Murphaph as well, this is very high brow for them. Although putting signs in high places wouldn't be too difficult for them, with their longer than average arms

Thomas__ wrote: »

Just remember the Joe Cox case, where some lonely Nazi-fanatic killed that woman by shouting "Britain First". In due course of the investigations and more so during the trial, the perpetrator turned out as someone who was a Nazi-fanatic for decades. He wasn´t on the radar of the security forces, he just felt encouraged to do his murder by riding on the wave of an increased nationalism.

He was a complete loner as well. That is the worrying thing about increases in nationalism, it means different things to different people and there are always those that will use it as an excuse for their own hatred.

Yes, that is all right what you say. Still, the hatred towards foreigners and those some "native Brits" deem to be, has increased and shocking as it was, it first hit the Poles as they are perceived as the majority of EU nationals living in the UK. I always said that what goes against the Poles in the first place will not necessarily stop or exclude other EU nationals.

On another Irish board, I had some exchanges of posts with an Irishman living in London for 30 years. He was rather fond of the far-right like Britain First and this other EDL founder Robinson (an Irishman as well). He never believed me that once the Brits (or the English) started to have ago at the Muslims (he apparently had a very strong anti-Muslim attitude for various reasons as he explained to me), there might come the time when they will have a go at the Irish as well. I had this sort of conversations with that Irish poster in the time before the mayoral election in London last year and also before Brexit (he was also in favour of Brexit). Although his far-right positions were clear enough to see, he always denied being a far-right supporter himself. Well, this didn´t work on me and I had him down as a far-right supporter by his own evidences given in his posts. I wouldn´t say that this man was inclined to inflict any harm on others, but the least I can say is that he appeared to be inclined to give his approval for such incidents if it would help to get rid of those he can´t bear. He even posted a picture with Hindus in London being members of the EDL (wearing such prints on the back of the uniformed jackets). That was just to show that there is an anti-Muslim community which consists not just of "White English" but also others.

Normal Islam (as a Religion) and political Islam (as Islamism) are already mixed up by some people in their mind and perception. This where the hatred comes from and this is where it thrives. One day it is the Muslims, next day it´s the Polish, the other day it´s the Jews and who knows, some nutter might think that one day it´s the Irish (even when this appears more than just unlikely today, but not impossible).

There is too much hatred in this world, far too much by now.

djpbarry

Terrific article from Kathy Sheridan in today's Times on the ironies, hypocrisies and outright lies surrounding the Brexit and IndyRef2 "debate". Highlights include:

On Monday, when Nicola Sturgeon triggered multiple Westminster breakdowns by calling for a second independence referendum, Theresa May responded with icy contempt.

Such a vote would be “divisive and cause huge economic uncertainty at the worst possible time . . . Politics is not a game,” she pronounced.

This of course was uttered as she was triumphantly gearing up to trigger article 50 – the mechanism by which Britain will sever itself from the EU – the consequence of an entirely unnecessary vote that has split England straight down the middle, threatens to smash the UK into fragments, and has already inflicted untold uncertainty, hurt, bitterness and bafflement on its own citizens, not to mention the three million EU pawns working in the UK.

...

“Sturgeon’s timetable would force people to vote blind on the biggest political decision a country could face. That is utterly irresponsible”, wrote the profoundly unironic Jamie Greene, a Conservative member of the Scottish Parliament.

...

Among the candidates for Outstanding Brexit Man, the winner arguably is one Daniel Hannan, a 45-year-old Conservative MEP yet lifelong campaigner for “independence”, described by an admirer as “the pamphleteer who made Brexit seem like a reasonable proposition for millions of people”.

Hannan’s recurring campaign statement reflected his modus operandi : “To repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market.”

...

On Monday, British Green MEP Molly Scott Cato said if the Commons did not accept the amendment for a “meaningful” parliamentary vote over the final deal, that she as an MEP, would have “more power over the Brexit process than [British] MPs”. The irony is endless.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-another-day-another-brexit-lie-exposed-1.3010095

mickoneill31

I heard some lord on Sky the other night.

He was talking about the stupidity of Scotland trying to separate from their largest trading partner and the uncertainty that would cause. This was at the same time as saying Brexit was the way to go. He wasn't trying to be funny, I think.

Foghladh

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

Bears some logic. The big blow has yet to come for the Brits, once they are out of the EU. Recent developments in the UK (for example more and more EU citizens leaving the country, leaving behind vacations on Jobs not that easily filled by UK citizens on grounds of qualificaion, skills etc.) are just the beginning.

By all the critics the present EU deserves, the Brits have made a big mistake by voting to leave the EU for the favour of a post-imperial pipe dream which will cost them dearly. The Brits won´t "rule" the world again, neither get any "leading position" again, cos those times are long gone and the big players of today have no interest to make room for the Brits and share power and influence with them. But well, some people are too stubborn to accept realities and the rules of this global world in which the UK is just a small Island in compare to the big nations, USA, Russia and China.

I pity the 48% remainers even more day by day as this Brexit procedure is about to unfold towards a hard Brexit.

Lots more bigger countries (markets) will begin to flex their muscles India, Brazil, Indonesia....Russia.... There's also the pesky trading bloc with 570,000,000 people on the bloody doorstep competing with the UK..... England, Wales and Norn Iron .....England and Wales.

Assuming that you're referring to the EU, I think you may have inflated the size of that trading bloc by about 130,000,000 or so

Professor Moriarty

Foghladh wrote: »

Assuming that you're referring to the EU, I think you may have inflated the size of that trading bloc by about 130,000,000 or so

Correct. More like 445,000,000. Miscalculation on my part when I subtracted the UK's population from the total.

Nothing worse than being wrong on the Internet. Nothing.

Lemming

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Correct. More like 445,000,000. Miscalculation on my part when I subtracted the UK's population from the total.

Nothing worse than being wrong on the Internet. Nothing.

WRONG!


*ahem*


:pac:

Leonard Hofstadter

Looks like the Liberal party in the Netherlands has comfortably won, and Geert Wildeers' anti-EU party will gain a mere four seats on the last time.

Not a good day for the Brexiteers, but a good day for everyone else. Hopefully this will be the start of a pro-EU fightback throughout Europe, the continued success of the EU is most certainly in Ireland's interest.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/netherlands-election-latest-exit-poll-mark-rutte-geert-wilders-dutch-a7632251.html

stefanovich

captainspeed wrote: »

Looks like the Liberal party in the Netherlands has comfortably won, and Geert Wildeers' anti-EU party will gain a mere four seats on the last time.

Not a good day for the Brexiteers, but a good day for everyone else. Hopefully this will be the start of a pro-EU fightback throughout Europe, the continued success of the EU is most certainly in Ireland's interest.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/netherlands-election-latest-exit-poll-mark-rutte-geert-wilders-dutch-a7632251.html

Mere.... He is due to have the second largest number of seats.

Peregrinus

stefanovich wrote: »

Mere.... He is due to have the second largest number of seats.

Don't count your chickens, Stef. The exit polls put him at 19 seats, behind the VVD with 31, but they also put CDA and D66 on 19 seats. The formal results, when declared in a day or two, could move one or two seats either way for any of these parties so, depending on how the cookie crumbles, the PVV could end up in 2nd, 3rd or 4th place. If the cookie crumbles really badly for them and well for GL (who are put at 16 seats in the exit poll) they could even end up in 5th place, although frankly that's pretty unlikely.

Not much attention is being paid to this because it doesn't matter very much whether PVV is in 2nd, 3rd or 4th place. What matters is whether the centre and centre-right parties can form a coalition that doesn't require PVV support, and at this point that answer to that question looks likely to be "yes", regardless of PVV's ranking.

seamus

stefanovich wrote: »

Mere.... He is due to have the second largest number of seats.

They've scored 20 seats, which is up 5 to be fair them, but the next two parties got 19 each.

So he's a million miles away from the comprehensive majority victory he was expecting, and still down 4 seats on the party's largest win in 2010.

Funnily enough it's a very similar result to Ireland. Their Labour party who were the coalition partners, got absolutely savaged yesterday, losing 75% of their seats.

The smaller left parties were the big winners yesterday, there are now six parties with enough seats to be important in Dutch politics, which should give a good balance when it comes to policy making.

That's what I'd like to see here - 4-6 parties with 25-35 seats each, having to form large coalitions to make legislation. Rather than two parties who two-thirds of the vote and rest have to fight for the scraps and plead to be in government.

Thomas__

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

I think that you´re quite right on them, it is how their brains work and it shows how sheep-minded their followers are, completely arsed.

They've been conditioned for thirty years to hate the EU. The Tory press did a good job.

Well, that´s worked on the English and Welsh, different developments of late to be observed in Scotland and it appears that the Tide is turning, in favour of IndyRef2:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/14/scottish-independence-referendum-brexit-Readers

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/theresa-may-dragging-uk-under-scotland-must-cut-rope

Since this Mrs May took over the office as PM, I was saying that she is the worst UK PM ever. She proving me right every time she deals with this Brexit thing and shows the stupid arrogance of herself that will certainly lead to the break up of the UK itself. She underestimates the Scots, cos they are apparently not inclined to accept this harsh Tory rule imposed on the whole of the UK where concerns and needs of the other parts that form this UK are treated in such a contemptive way like Mrs May has shown recently and is about to pursue further on her way to a hard Brexit.

This is the way to go when people are voting incompetent and destructive politicians into power and it is hard to stop their drive into utter ruin. That said in spite of the fact that Mrs May and her present govt are a result of the resignation of Cameron, cos nobody voted Mrs May into the office of PM, nobody did so directly for Cameron, but the voters could expect that he will remain PM when they vote for the Tories. If Mrs May would have the guts to face a snap GE, she might bring her Party on losing more votes by now, but she knows perfectly well that such a step would be a folly on her own, but who knows, PMs might be forced to resign and call for a GE when they lose more and more confidence in the Commons in due course of her misconduct in the upcoming Brexit negotiations and proceeding with her course to have the UK exiting the EU even without a deal. I do hope for her downfall and the sooner this will happen, the better for the many. If there is anything that might stop a growing support for Independence in Scotland, how tiny this will look today, the potential to grow is certainly there, than it has to be over the resignation of Mrs May and a new GE where the people can vote in regards of the result of the Brexit Ref. Otherwise, the UK might soon be history. Well, I wouldn´t shed a tear if that happens, I would rather congratulate the Scots for their new gained Independence in hope that the EU would make it easy for Scotland to join the EU, or simply take up the place of the UK, when her Exit is completed.

Lemming

Thomas__ wrote: »

She underestimates the Scots, cos they are apparently not inclined to accept this harsh Tory rule imposed on the whole of the UK where concerns and needs of the other parts that form this UK are treated in such a contemptive way like Mrs May has shown recently and is about to pursue further on her way to a hard Brexit.

The Scots have very long memories of how Thatcher (and the Tories under her reign) treated them; more so than Yorkshire ..... And as much as might seem fashionable for the Brexiteers to liken Theresa Mayhem to Thatcher, such comparisons are a liability north of the border.

Professor Moriarty

This headline about the budget debacle from the Torygraph made me smile:

The Government's U-turn shows it has the flexibility and dynamism to succeed

Thomas__

Lemming wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

She underestimates the Scots, cos they are apparently not inclined to accept this harsh Tory rule imposed on the whole of the UK where concerns and needs of the other parts that form this UK are treated in such a contemptive way like Mrs May has shown recently and is about to pursue further on her way to a hard Brexit.

The Scots have very long memories of how Thatcher (and the Tories under her reign) treated them; more so than Yorkshire ..... And as much as might seem fashionable for the Brexiteers to liken Theresa Mayhem to Thatcher, such comparisons are a liability north of the border.

Yes, Mrs May has some "habbit" to be like Thatcher and she´s made it to be even worse than the old one and that in a very short time. I´d say that there is some (un)certain amount of Tories who have some nostalgic view on the gone Victorian era and like to revive it and with a loser like Corbyn, they might think that they would have some "easy play" to bring those harsh times back into the present. The Tories and the Corbynistas have more fear for the Kippers than anything, otherwise they wouldn´t have acted the way they did.

Enzokk

Anyone up for British Citizenship? Seems like David Davis wants any British Citizen to become Irish and vice versa.

Irish and British to get dual citizenship rights

It had been anticipated that this legislation, which enshrines the free movement of people, would have to be reviewed after Brexit. “What we will aim to do is pretty much identical to the 1949 act, which gives effectively citizenship rights to the citizens of each country,” Mr Davis said.

Enzokk

Thinking about the article about dual citizenship rights, seems like the plan to circumvent the CTA is that Irish citizens take up British citizenship that will allow them to work and travel in Britain as they please. I guess as an Irish citizen if you don't take up British citizenship you will need to apply for a work permit as other EU nationals but that would be your choice.

The problem I see with this is that 60 million British citizens will be able to take up Irish citizenship and be able to travel around the EU and work in the EU without any obstacles but EU citizens will not be able to work in the UK without proper permits. This way the UK will be able to keep the right of their citizens to work and travel around the EU and they will be able to restrict immigration from the EU.

Thomas__

Enzokk wrote: »

Anyone up for British Citizenship? Seems like David Davis wants any British Citizen to become Irish and vice versa.

Irish and British to get dual citizenship rights

It had been anticipated that this legislation, which enshrines the free movement of people, would have to be reviewed after Brexit. “What we will aim to do is pretty much identical to the 1949 act, which gives effectively citizenship rights to the citizens of each country,” Mr Davis said.

Laughable! I wonder what the response of the Dáil would be on such a proposal. Ireland might as well take over the whole of the UK, some part of history in reverse. I don´t regard Mr Davis as the brightest within the present UK govt, not at all. It all sounds really plain stupid. Sometimes I see the performance of this present UK govt as something similar to a bad performance of the Muppet Show, hard to choose who is worse, Davis, Johnson or May.

Many of those UK citizens who are entitled to apply for an Irish passport, already did so immediately after the 23rd of June 2016, thus the increasing numbers for passport applications at the Irish Missions in GB and NI.

Thomas__

Enzokk wrote: »

Thinking about the article about dual citizenship rights, seems like the plan to circumvent the CTA is that Irish citizens take up British citizenship that will allow them to work and travel in Britain as they please. I guess as an Irish citizen if you don't take up British citizenship you will need to apply for a work permit as other EU nationals but that would be your choice.

The problem I see with this is that 60 million British citizens will be able to take up Irish citizenship and be able to travel around the EU and work in the EU without any obstacles but EU citizens will not be able to work in the UK without proper permits. This way the UK will be able to keep the right of their citizens to work and travel around the EU and they will be able to restrict immigration from the EU.

The once agreed regulations from 1922 between Ireland and the UK are still in tact and will be upheld in the future. So there will be no Need for any applications for Irish citizens in the UK, as well as for UK citizens in Ireland (unless this will be a matter the EU might oppose, which I rather doubt that they will).

Sam Russell

Lemming wrote: »

The Scots have very long memories of how Thatcher (and the Tories under her reign) treated them; more so than Yorkshire ..... And as much as might seem fashionable for the Brexiteers to liken Theresa Mayhem to Thatcher, such comparisons are a liability north of the border.

The have not forgotten Edward the 1st - the Hammer of the Scots - or the fate of Mary Queen of Scots. Also Queen Elizabeth the 1st of Scotland?

.

murphaph

seamus wrote: »

They've scored 20 seats, which is up 5 to be fair them, but the next two parties got 19 each.

So he's a million miles away from the comprehensive majority victory he was expecting, and still down 4 seats on the party's largest win in 2010.

Funnily enough it's a very similar result to Ireland. Their Labour party who were the coalition partners, got absolutely savaged yesterday, losing 75% of their seats.

The smaller left parties were the big winners yesterday, there are now six parties with enough seats to be important in Dutch politics, which should give a good balance when it comes to policy making.

That's what I'd like to see here - 4-6 parties with 25-35 seats each, having to form large coalitions to make legislation. Rather than two parties who two-thirds of the vote and rest have to fight for the scraps and plead to be in government.

I'd adopt the Dutch system lock, stock and barrel. It's perfect for a country our size. Note also just how few MPs they actually have...150 for a population of 17 million. Independents are a bloody scourge in politics but I also agree that 2 big parties changing sides every few years is not really ideal either. I think the Dutch have it spot on.

Thomas__

murphaph wrote: »

seamus wrote: »

They've scored 20 seats, which is up 5 to be fair them, but the next two parties got 19 each.

So he's a million miles away from the comprehensive majority victory he was expecting, and still down 4 seats on the party's largest win in 2010.

Funnily enough it's a very similar result to Ireland. Their Labour party who were the coalition partners, got absolutely savaged yesterday, losing 75% of their seats.

The smaller left parties were the big winners yesterday, there are now six parties with enough seats to be important in Dutch politics, which should give a good balance when it comes to policy making.

That's what I'd like to see here - 4-6 parties with 25-35 seats each, having to form large coalitions to make legislation. Rather than two parties who two-thirds of the vote and rest have to fight for the scraps and plead to be in government.

I'd adopt the Dutch system lock, stock and barrel. It's perfect for a country our size. Note also just how few MPs they actually have...150 for a population of 17 million. Independents are a bloody scourge in politics but I also agree that 2 big parties changing sides every few years is not really ideal either. I think the Dutch have it spot on.

Well, they have 14 parties in parliament and it isn´t hard to tell how complicated coalition negotiations will get to form a sustainable government with probably four parties taking part in it to have a majority in parliament on which they can rule. But a ping-pong-situation like in the USA where two Major parties are "changing the guard" between themselves isn´t much good either.

murphaph

Enzokk wrote: »

Thinking about the article about dual citizenship rights, seems like the plan to circumvent the CTA is that Irish citizens take up British citizenship that will allow them to work and travel in Britain as they please. I guess as an Irish citizen if you don't take up British citizenship you will need to apply for a work permit as other EU nationals but that would be your choice.

The problem I see with this is that 60 million British citizens will be able to take up Irish citizenship and be able to travel around the EU and work in the EU without any obstacles but EU citizens will not be able to work in the UK without proper permits. This way the UK will be able to keep the right of their citizens to work and travel around the EU and they will be able to restrict immigration from the EU.

The EU won't care about this for the most part I reckon unless the UK economy completely collapses and sends economic migrants fleeing. The reality is that the vast majority of Brits who work "in Europe" are skilled and valuable. The exception could be Spain, where healthcare costs for older retired Brits may become political, especially if young Spanish can't migrate to the UK to work.

But actually I didn't read the article as meaning that Irish will get British citizenship at all, more that the 1949 act will simply continue to apply as it did before we joined the EU. It's not really clear to me (not for the first time where Mr. Davis is concerned) what he is saying. There are currently no other news sources carrying this story AFAIK.

flatty

I read this thread with increasing dismay.
I'm an Irishman, who moved to the UK, Scotland first, and then England in 1996, solely for work.
Unfortunately, I fell for ,and married an English girl , who has repelled all efforts to move home since. I adore her however, and the kids are happy and settled.
I have bought a few acres at home, and plan to move home in a few years.
Now I an lucky, in that I make a lot of money, my wife has a good job, and at present, we want for nothing, so I would be one of the few who may benefit from some Singapore type regime, but I am thoroughly sickened by brexit, and I would hope that the European Parliament, their negotiators, and, indeed irish and EU citizens would remember that there are tens of millions of people who are bound to the UK who feel exactly the same.
I am absolutely outraged that Theresa May has apparently hijacked brexit , imposing on it with a mixture of arrogance , ruthlessness and ineptitude, entirely her own vision of what brexit should mean, and she isn't even an elected leader. It is a perfect storm of an idiot calling the referendum (Cameron),an utterly directionless and rudderless opposition, an over-strong media, and voter apathy that has inflicted this on the people of the UK who will actually do the suffering.
I hope it occurs to the EU and their negotiators, that they ought at least bear in mind those voters who want to remain.
I was hoping that may had a plan to go back to the country once the ramifications of the inevitably awful deal become apparent. Unfortunately, it would appear that she is too arrogant.