Brexit Referendum Superthread

123shooter

First Up wrote: »

"On the cards" meaning what?

Meaning I thought taxation was to be the same in all EU countries sooner or later and no country like Ireland could have their own little low rate to attract business in the way it had.

First Up

123shooter wrote:

Meaning I thought taxation was to be the same in all EU countries sooner or later and no country like Ireland could have their own little low rate to attract business in the way it had.

And what made you think that?

123shooter

First Up wrote: »

And what made you think that?

Well apparently it comes up on a regular basis and your best buddy in these matters will be doing their own stuff from now on.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/tax-harmonisation-is-back-on-eu-s-agenda-but-ireland-is-alone-1.2841042

BlitzKrieg

123shooter wrote: »

Well apparently it comes up on a regular basis and your best buddy in these matters will be doing their own stuff from now on.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/tax-harmonisation-is-back-on-eu-s-agenda-but-ireland-is-alone-1.2841042

A 2011 initiative failed to muster the unanimity needed largely because of opposition by Ireland and the UK

Key phrase there.

An Ciarraioch

Tax harmonisation would require unanimity, and given that many of the 2004 accession states have corporate tax rates similar to Ireland's, it's not going to happen.

123shooter

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Tax harmonisation would require unanimity, and given that many of the 2004 accession states have corporate tax rates similar to Ireland's, it's not going to happen.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. But there must be something in it for them to bang on about it.

UK could set low corporation rate tomorrow (or when they are out). Go down like a lead balloon then wouldn't it?

An Ciarraioch

123shooter wrote: »

Maybe it does, maybe it doesnt. But there must be something in it for them to bang on about it.

UK could set low corporation rate tomorrow (or when they are out). Go down like a lead balloon then wouldn't it?

They could, but even then, companies based there are already setting up EU offices.

123shooter

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

They could, but even then, companies based there are already setting up EU offices.

Oh I see then its a 'lets get out of the uk' then.

Well as I said if the UK fails then so does Ireland and being as the UK is the EU's biggest export market then it could be a case of shooting one's self in the foot if the EU decides to try and make the UK fail.

First Up

123shooter wrote:

UK could set low corporation rate tomorrow (or when they are out). Go down like a lead balloon then wouldn't it?

They can set whatever rate they like, whenever they like. So can everyone else. It has nothing to do with EU membership.

Corporation tax is a factor in investment decisions but access to markets is a much bigger one.

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

They can set whatever rate they like, whenever they like. So can everyone else. It has nothing to do with EU membership.

Corporation tax is a factor in investment decisions but access to markets is a much bigger one.

The tax rate is a red herring though. The rate is pretty irrelevant, it is the rules that allow companies to avoid paying anywhere near the actual tax rate that need to be looked at.

Considering the EU President is complicit in helping set up some of those rules though, I'm not holding my breath.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/12/why-good-europeans-despair-jean-claude-juncker-commission

123shooter

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The tax rate is a red herring though. The rate is pretty irrelevant, it is the rules that allow companies to avoid paying anywhere near the actual tax rate that need to be looked at.

Considering the EU President is complicit in helping set up some of those rules though, I'm not holding my breath.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/12/why-good-europeans-despair-jean-claude-juncker-commission

And that is a major problem with the EU and why it can't be democratic for it's people........it's the one's pulling the strings that make democracy impossible.

Professor Moriarty

123shooter wrote: »

Oh I see then its a 'lets get out of the uk' then.

Well as I said if the UK fails then so does Ireland and being as the UK is the EU's biggest export market then it could be a case of shooting one's self in the foot if the EU decides to try and make the UK fail.

The Uk sells much more to Ireland than Ireland sells to the UK.

BlitzKrieg

123shooter wrote: »

And that is a major problem with the EU and why it can't be democratic for it's people........it's the one's pulling the strings that make democracy impossible.

uhmm Juncker was elected.

123shooter

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The Uk sells much more to Ireland than Ireland sells to the UK.

Maybe so but in the grand scheme of things it aint a lot, but to Ireland its an aweful lot.

I actually met a Professor Moriarty.:)

123shooter

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

uhmm Juncker was elected.

I wasn't talking about EU members.

BlitzKrieg

123shooter wrote: »

I wasn't talking about EU members.

If not the people of the EU then who did you expect to elect him?

123shooter

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

If not the people of the EU then who did you expect to elect him?

Not talking about electing them..........what are you on about?

Enzokk

123shooter wrote: »

Actually you are missing my points entirely and I would never assume that all Irish people agree with the EU but it seems you do?

What I like is immaterial and would never want my will or idealism imposed over those who did not want it.

Also the thing here is that another country has decided that they want other.........you lot are bleating away at how wrong they are and they shouldn't do it. So basically you want to impose your will and idealism over other people who don't want it.

Well you bleat away. Apparently because of Gina Miller's own goal it is now enshrined in UK law and cannot be stopped so what happens? Well either the UK is a success in which case others may follow and your beloved little utopia will fall apart around you...........or........the UK fails and then you largest trading partner and purchaser of your goods flounders which will sink your economy.

Your bleating will not make any difference in any way............but I suppose someone like me must be wrong and of course you must be right. We all just have to wait.

So the EU has a choice as well. They can let their project fail because one country decided to leave, or they can ensure that their other members do not take as bad of a hit as the country leaving. This way they get to keep their project running without the need to bail out one of their members and the country that caused a mini crises doesn't get to shout victory.

123shooter

Enzokk wrote: »

So the EU has a choice as well. They can let their project fail because one country decided to leave, or they can ensure that their other members do not take as bad of a hit as the country leaving. This way they get to keep their project running without the need to bail out one of their members and the country that caused a mini crises doesn't get to shout victory.

Well I just thought that the people wanted out to steer their own destiny. I didn't realise it was a fight/war to destroy or shout victory.

As far as I know the people of the UK wanted to control their own country and trade economically with others not destroy them.

Professor Moriarty

123shooter wrote: »

Maybe so but in the grand scheme of things it aint a lot, but to Ireland its an aweful lot.

36% of Ireland's exports go to the UK. Excluding the UK, Ireland exports more to the EU than to the UK. 44% of the UK's exports go to the EU. 16% of the EU's exports go to Britain.

If a hard Brexit happens, we will still have full access to our largest market. The UK will not.

123shooter

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

36% of Ireland's exports go to the UK. Excluding the UK, Ireland exports more to the EU than to the UK. 44% of the UK's exports go to the EU. 16% of the EU's exports go to Britain.

If a hard Brexit happens, we will still have full access to our largest market. The UK will not.

So you have nothing to worry about then.......end of the Brexit megathread.

Enzokk

123shooter wrote: »

Well I just thought that the people wanted out to steer their own destiny. I didn't realise it was a fight/war to destroy or shout victory.

As far as I know the people of the UK wanted to control their own country and trade economically with others not destroy them.

But what is control? The UK parliament already has sovereignty. They already make their laws. Immigration has also been proven to be a red herring, seeing as the UK allows just as many non-EU immigration into the UK as those from the EU. Surely if if was such a problem you would see a reduction of the non-EU immigration to make up for the fact that they cannot "control" EU immigration, but seeing as they have never really done this makes you wonder if it really is such a big issue for the politicians.

Its not about shouting victory for the EU, its about ensuring the best terms for its members. For the UK its a bad thing as they are on the outside of this now and will not have protection from the biggest trading block in the world. If in the end the choices are pain for Ireland or the UK the EU will choose pain for the UK. This is not punishment or vindictiveness, its just the situation we find ourselves in.

123shooter

Enzokk wrote: »

But what is control? The UK parliament already has sovereignty. They already make their laws. Immigration has also been proven to be a red herring, seeing as the UK allows just as many non-EU immigration into the UK as those from the EU. Surely if if was such a problem you would see a reduction of the non-EU immigration to make up for the fact that they cannot "control" EU immigration, but seeing as they have never really done this makes you wonder if it really is such a big issue for the politicians.

Its not about shouting victory for the EU, its about ensuring the best terms for its members. For the UK its a bad thing as they are on the outside of this now and will not have protection from the biggest trading block in the world. If in the end the choices are pain for Ireland or the UK the EU will choose pain for the UK. This is not punishment or vindictiveness, its just the situation we find ourselves in.

Seems others do not share your views........... http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/822415/Brexit-Germany-Wolfgang-Schaeuble-UK-mistake

GERMANY'S finance minister has declared the European Union (EU) will show Britain how much of a mistake Brexit truly was.

BlitzKrieg

123shooter wrote: »

Seems others do not share your views........... http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/822415/Brexit-Germany-Wolfgang-Schaeuble-UK-mistake

GERMANY'S finance minister has declared the European Union (EU) will show Britain how much of a mistake Brexit truly was.

did you just read the headline or actually looked at what he said:

He said this afternoon: "I hope that the rest of Europe will do so well that the British realise at some point that they made a mistake.

he's not calling for punishing the UK, he's saying that he hopes that europe's growth over the next 2 years will show the UK that Brexit was a mistake.

edit: comparison article with a less loaded headline: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-europe-germany-idUSKBN19J291

123shooter

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

did you just read the headline or actually looked at what he said:



he's not calling for punishing the UK, he's saying that he hopes that europe's growth over the next 2 years will show the UK that Brexit was a mistake.

I am sorry I did just read the headline.

First Up

Professor Moriarty wrote:

36% of Ireland's exports go to the UK. Excluding the UK, Ireland exports more to the EU than to the UK. 44% of the UK's exports go to the EU. 16% of the EU's exports go to Britain.

You might want to check those figures.

Sam Russell

123shooter wrote: »

Seems others do not share your views........... http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/822415/Brexit-Germany-Wolfgang-Schaeuble-UK-mistake

GERMANY'S finance minister has declared the European Union (EU) will show Britain how much of a mistake Brexit truly was.

Quote a headline from one of the most anti-EU papers on the UK newstand - and not bother reading the article is presumably what won the Brexit vote. That is certainly how to win points.

Schaeuble actually said that the Brexit vote was won because of all the lies and misrepresentation that lead up to the vote, and that the growth of the EU over the next two years may well show that the Brexit vote to be a mistake.

Professor Moriarty

123shooter wrote: »

So you have nothing to worry about then.......end of the Brexit megathread.

I wouldn't say that. Britain's deliberate act of self-harm will affect us.

123shooter

Sam Russell wrote: »

Quote a headline from one of the most anti-EU papers on the UK newstand - and not bother reading the article is presumably what won the Brexit vote. That is certainly how to win points.

Schaeuble actually said that the Brexit vote was won because of all the lies and misrepresentation that lead up to the vote, and that the growth of the EU over the next two years may well show that the Brexit vote to be a mistake.

Hold on if you must know I had just clicked on that newspaper because another one was showing 2 items I didn't care to read about.......dog being dragged behind a car and another being cooked alive.

So nothing to do with what I believe or how Brexit voters get their news about the EU.

Your accusation is about as exact as the headline.

Professor Moriarty

First Up wrote: »

You might want to check those figures.

Why?