Brexit Referendum Superthread

Sam Russell

I think it is time for the EU to announce where the two EU bodies are going when they leave the UK and when they will go. (Medicines and Banking).

Water John

AFAIK, the financial institutions in London have to make submissions on their future locations to the ECB in a few weeks. That should make people start facing the realities.

Roanmore

Water John wrote: »

Is this Gove setting his position? A bit stupid. If that's all UK have to throw, they have just emptied their raingun.

Seems to be personal for Gove, his father was a fisherman and in today's Sunday Times he is quoted as saying
"He was, along with thousands of others, someone who had suffered directly as a result of our membership of the EU and this was a chance to put things right".

PopePalpatine

The phrases "needs of the many" and "wants of a few" come to mind. Typical Brexiteers.

murphaph

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think it is time for the EU to announce where the two EU bodies are going when they leave the UK and when they will go. (Medicines and Banking).

The EMA competition is open with each submission being scored by all the member states on such things as accessibility to an airport that serves the most EU capitals and availability of international school places and so on. AFAIK the outcome should be made known in October.

I would be pleasantly surprised if Dublin won because our poor infrastructure will pull us way down.

steddyeddy

A friend of mine works at the EMA. They will certainly be leaving but she said civil servants seem to be in complete denial about that fact.

LeinsterDub

Roanmore wrote: »

"He was, along with thousands of others, someone who had suffered directly as a result of our membership of the EU and this was a chance to put things right".

So he pulling out of a non EU agreement? The mind boggles

Fratton Fred

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The phrases "needs of the many" and "wants of a few" come to mind. Typical Brexiteers.

it seems this is a move the non Brexiteering SNP have been pushing for

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-to-back-out-of-fishing-deal-that-allows-foreign-countries-to-use-waters-1-4492419

Scotland's Fisheries Secretary Fergus Ewing said: "The UK Government's decision to withdraw from the London Fisheries Convention is a move we have been pressing for some time now. "Our priority is to protect our fishing industry and allowing unrestricted access to our waters to remain through this convention clearly would not be doing that. "We cannot rely on the UK Government to do that, having regularly put the interests of fishing communities elsewhere in the UK ahead of those in Scotland. "It is vital therefore that all powers over policy be repatriated to Scotland and current EU funding for fisheries be matched and transferred to Scotland in full."

Professor Moriarty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it seems this is a move the non Brexiteering SNP have been pushing for

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-to-back-out-of-fishing-deal-that-allows-foreign-countries-to-use-waters-1-4492419

The law of unintended consequences!

Atlantic Dawn

The London Fisheries Convention was signed in 1964 pre the UK joining the EU, it couldn't realistically work post Brexit if no non UK boats were allowed fish between 12 and 200 mile limits but the 5 named countries in the convention could fish inside the 12 mile. This was always going to have to happen. No such single state agreements can be made post Brexit by the UK with the EU it's either an all EU or nothing.

steddyeddy

In fairness there's nothing wrong with this really. It becomes a problem when you take Gibralter, Rockal and Loch Foyle into account.

Jaggo

Just on rockall, ireland has no genuine claim to rockall. Rockall is closest to Scotland, there is no justification under any international law for ireland to claim it. We don't claim it now. I don't get why people keep bringing it up.

Rain Ascending

Interesting and potentially important article in the Guardian today:

British officials drop 'cake and eat it' approach to Brexit negotiations

Insiders reveal previously muted economic arguments resurface, shifting mood towards ‘realism’, but Brexit secretary aide denies change of strategy

The trade-off discussed in the article (level of access v. control) is a critical debate that the UK needs to go through. Post-referendum, any such debate was was quashed using phrases like "Brexit means Brexit" and "remoaners" (a pejorative term for anybody suggesting that there might be downsides to a hard Brexit). Instead, many key figures took a position designed to maximize the British position in the upcoming negotiations with the EU.

However, in some ways, the most important negotiation is not with the EU but between various factions within the UK, around what kind of Brexit is the best possible deal: in the single market v. out, in the customs union v. out, etc. It now seems that critical negotiation is now just really beginning internally. (Health warning: the article is from the Guardian, so there may be a bit of wishful thinking.)

The tragedy for the UK is that it has taken them a year to get to this point, several months after triggering Article 50.

steddyeddy

Jaggo wrote: »

Just on rockall, ireland has no genuine claim to rockall. Rockall is closest to Scotland, there is no justification under any international law for ireland to claim it. We don't claim it now. I don't get why people keep bringing it up.

Actually no one has a claim to it. It's uninhabited land. The Brits in an uncharacteristic bout of imperialism stuck a flag on it and a placed a soldier on it a few days a year.

It also depends on which continental shelf it's on.

The Loch Foyle claim is different. Ireland generously said we can share it with the UK. The Brits in another uncharacteristic imperialistic action said "we want it all".

Seriously one good thing about Brexit is it might give them a good dose of cop on.

Atlantic Dawn

What I don't understand with the EU and it's sharing of resources througout the community is why can some Irish oil company can't place a rig up in the North Sea within the 200 miles limit and take the oil for Ireland the same way fish is shared out.

Another interesting Guardian article on the possibility of a EU-UK deal on a customs union based on the trade of physical goods but which may allow the UK to pursue its own deals in the services sector which is important to the British economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/02/new-customs-union-with-eu-after-brexit-is-still-an-option-analysts-say

RDM_83 again

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He understood how the peace was achieved.

I have no problem with soldiers being honoured for their part in a war while not for one minute sympathising with any side in that war.

Maybe too complex and nuanced for some to grasp.

Whatever about Corbyn, McDonnel who is potentially the power behind the throne in the Labour party at the minute did oppose the Good Friday agreement, ironically one of the attacks on the Tories at the minute spearheaded by him is that the DUP deal puts the agreement he strongly opposed at risk :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Whatever about Corbyn, McDonnel who is potentially the power behind the throne in the Labour party at the minute did oppose the Good Friday agreement, ironically one of the attacks on the Tories at the minute spearheaded by him is that the DUP deal puts the agreement he strongly opposed at risk :rolleyes:

Well I am no huge fan of the British Labour party in it's current form but I do respect any politician who can change their views and who can go against the party whip if it is too personally difficult for them to comply.
Paisley disliked the GFA a bit when it was signed but he totally compromised his view and got on with it.

LeinsterDub

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0703/887294-uk-report-ireland-needs-to-consider-leaving-eu/

You don't know if you should laugh or cry at the nonsense coming out of UK

steddyeddy

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0703/887294-uk-report-ireland-needs-to-consider-leaving-eu/

You don't know if you should laugh or cry at the nonsense coming out of UK

Laugh at the thought and cry at the fact they're resorting to propaganda to break up the EU.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

Laugh at the thought and cry at the fact they're resorting to propaganda to break up the EU.

Lobbing the fisheries thing into a sensitive mix of negotiations like a Molotov cocktail seems very desparate to me.

Professor Moriarty

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0703/887294-uk-report-ireland-needs-to-consider-leaving-eu/

You don't know if you should laugh or cry at the nonsense coming out of UK

Policy Exchange is a'Think Tank' set up by three Tories - Nicholas Boles, Michael Gove and Francis Maude. Its chairman is Neocon David Frum. At least two of its publications have been proven to be false. Anything coming form that source needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

whatstherush

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/0703/887294-uk-report-ireland-needs-to-consider-leaving-eu/

You don't know if you should laugh or cry at the nonsense coming out of UK

Good take down of the paper in this Twitter thread.
https://twitter.com/OwenCallan/status/881783153177890816
Tldr: tis horse****e

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually no one has a claim to it. It's uninhabited land. The Brits in an uncharacteristic bout of imperialism stuck a flag on it and a placed a soldier on it a few days a year.

err no soldier has set foot on Rockall for over thirty years.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Laugh at the thought and cry at the fact they're resorting to propaganda to break up the EU.

Do you ever read anything?

The report was written by Ray Bassett, a former Irish Ambassador to Canada, who says there should be serious consideration given to a radically different relationship between Ireland and the EU after Brexit, including potentially leaving the Union in order to retain a close relationship with the UK.

This came from policy think tank, they are an organisation that basically thinks out load to generate ideas.

Fratton Fred

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I don't understand with the EU and it's sharing of resources througout the community is why can some Irish oil company can't place a rig up in the North Sea within the 200 miles limit and take the oil for Ireland the same way fish is shared out.

oil isn't a shared resource, whereas fish, because they move freely around the region, are considered to be.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

err no soldier has set foot on Rockall for over thirty years.

That would mean there's no claim to it as it's uninhabited. Let's see if they make a big deal about that.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

That would mean there's no claim to it as it's uninhabited. Let's see if they make a big deal about that.

there is no claim to it as such, the countries that do have a nominal claim do so because if they don't and the rules change then one of the others could have their claim ratified. It could end up being part of Denmark or Iceland, for example.

demfad

whatstherush wrote: »

Good take down of the paper in this Twitter thread.
https://twitter.com/OwenCallan/status/881783153177890816
Tldr: tis horse****e

The EU is prioritising Ireland by putting the solution to the border connundrum as a red line before trade talks between EU/UK. In effect the EU is forcing the UK to genuinely address this issue, which they should have done as it massively diversely affects NI which is in the UKs juristiction.

The problem is not the EUs reaction to the policy of putting a hatchet through the all-Ireland economy: It is the UKs ambivalence towards doing this in the first place and finding a solution for it.

serfboard

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This came from policy think tank, they are an organisation that basically thinks out load to generate ideas.

Oh sorry, it came from a "Think Tank". Excuse me. Then obviously it has the veneer of respectability to it, and we all must take it seriously.

It came from a "Think Tank" called Policy Exchange. Policy Exchange is a Tory think tank funded by ... well we don't know actually because they won't say who their funders are. It has been ranked as "as one of the three least transparent think tanks in the UK in relation to funding." The UK campaign for think tank transparency, WhoFundsYou.org, rate Policy Exchange as 'E', the lowest score out of five for funding transparency.

So we don't know who funds policy exchange. But we do know who set it up and has run it over the years - and it's basically a mouthpiece for the Tory party.

So the answer to your question:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you ever read anything?

is - do you ever read anything yourself?

Having made the diastrous decision to leave the EU, some elements among the Brits are now trying to pull the institution down after them - and have (presumably handsomely) paid silly arse Ray Bassett to write some oul' ridiculous drivel saying that we should leave too.

What's amazing to me is that this load of nonsense is getting covered on RTE, The Irish Times and the Independent. I suppose Copy and Paste "Journalism" never refuses a press release.