Brexit Referendum Superthread

whatever_

Redbishop wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not just people that need to be checked, there will be customs implications. If the EU and Britain can't negotiate free trade agreements, then every car going across the border will have to declare customs, otherwise Northern Ireland will become a smugglers paradise

What's new?

For 3-5% customs duty worst case ? The Referendum is over. Time to turn down the rhetoric.

mansize

whatever_ wrote: »

For 3-5% customs duty worst case ? The Referendum is over. Time to turn down the rhetoric.

Listen. We'll see what happens.

BoJack Horseman

The thread now needs a poll.

What do posters think will come first.

- World War 3 as predicted by Dave
- The end of western civilisation as predicted by President Donny?

mansize

President Donny?

ancapailldorcha

Just saw this on my Twitter feed. Needless to say, I am dismayed by this result.

Wanderer78

BoJack Horseman wrote:

- World War 3 as predicted by Dave - The end of western civilisation as predicted by President Donny?

Nuke, nuke'em all!

micosoft

whatever_ wrote: »

For 3-5% customs duty worst case ? The Referendum is over. Time to turn down the rhetoric.

That's not and never has been the problem. The issue is market protections based on regulations. Don't comply with my country/blocs regulation? Can't operate in our market. The only choice the UK will have is to implement every regulation that comes from Brussels but with no say.

It's not longer rhetoric. It's fact. Project Fear is now project reality. The prime minister has resigned and the Governor of the bank of England has had to give a press conference. Sterling is tumbling. All that within a coupe of hours. As the expression goes the bells are ringing today but the hands will be wringing tomorrow as the implications of a populist campaign based on lies wake up to cold reality.

mansize

EU tough talking already

whatever_

Bob24 wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

No-one can answer this type of question now. To be honest no-one even knows if the UK is actually leaving, let alone when and under which conditions.

Stage 1: Denial

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/

As I said before on this thread my preference was slightly for Brexit and I though euroenthousists were missing part of the picture.

Now I would say the same to you if you think it is a done deal. Whatever people have voted and whatever Cameron is saying (you remember, that reliable guy who was saying until yesterday he wouldn't resign no matter what), the negotiation will be a tough one and public opinion might change its mind in the process.

I've never met a Euro Enthusiast who didn't have his hand in the pocket of the EU (aka known as the British taxpayer). The Remain side (and the one sided media in Ireland) fought a very poor campaign. I could have put their case better than they could themselves. They completely failed to engage with working class voters, and they continue to dismiss them as uneducated racists. Scotland has serious problems now - 40% of its voters in this Referendum were disenfranchised. Sturgeon will ignore those people at her peril.

xabi

Tell me how wrote: »

In 6 months you could have Boris Johnson Prime Minister of UK and Donald Trump president of US.

And for the laugh, Gerry Adams as Taoiseach of a 32 county Ireland.

BoJack Horseman

mansize wrote: »

President Donny?

Yep.... you must know your president?
After all, you voted for him..... oh, wait... no, no one did.

Here is is mocking your manhood

ancapailldorcha

Up the standard please.

Tigerandahalf

A CEO of an insurance firm on Sky News this morning put it well when he said it was a push against globalisation and how the working poor in wealthy developed countries have been losing out for several decades.

Francie Barrett

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

A CEO of an insurance firm on Sky News this morning put it well when he said it was a push against globalisation and how the working poor in wealthy developed countries have been losing out for several decades.

This is very true, but ultimately is a Luddite reaction. Let's say Britain does close the gates and stop immigration, sure the locals will have more jobs, but it will hurt the long-term prospects of the UK and make it a less attractive place for innovation and investment.

whatever_

whatever_ wrote: »

I've never met a Euro Enthusiast who didn't have his hand in the pocket of the EU (aka known as the British taxpayer). The Remain side (and the one sided media in Ireland) fought a very poor campaign. I could have put their case better than they could themselves. They completely failed to engage with working class voters, and they continue to dismiss them as uneducated racists. Scotland has serious problems now - 40% of its voters in this Referendum were disenfranchised. Sturgeon will ignore those people at her peril.

14-odd million people who voted to remain have their hand in the pocket of the EU also known as known as the UK taxpayer?

40% of Scots are disenfranchised (38% actually) but the 46.6% of English people who votes to remain aren't? Funny logic there.

Nekarsulm

I don't think the general unemployed are going to flock to work in the chippers, chinese take a ways, courier companies and veg. growing areas when the current workers visas expire.

bur

https://twitter.com/lindsaylohan/status/746148410483433472

Lindsay knows.

AllGunsBlazing

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

A CEO of an insurance firm on Sky News this morning put it well when he said it was a push against globalisation and how the working poor in wealthy developed countries have been losing out for several decades.

That's him fired then.

mansize

https://amp.twimg.com/v/79e42801-bd08-4283-9fd8-22dda9f68747

Buyer's remorse?

BoJack Horseman

bur wrote: »

Lindsay knows.

Ireland has long enjoyed the benefits of a relatively weak currency, boosting exports & disincentivising imports.

The Euro's relatively feeble performance against Sterling/Dollar has been of great help.

There is no logical reason why those benefits cannot be enjoyed by the UK.

Remember a few years ago when the Euro was very strong vs Sterling?
Traders were lamenting the money leaving for NI shopping.

Well, it might come back.
Good for them....

But the sky didn't fall in then... it won't now.

whatever_

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

timmyntc wrote: »

Nope, Ireland have no obligation to secure the NI border. It's already been looked into and discussed to death. The CTA will stand, there may be customs checkpoints for goods but the free movement of people between the isles can still stand.

Of course this is assuming Ireland don't have a knee-jerk reaction and join schengen now that our buddies in the UK have opted to leave.

Be interesting to see what happens. Does the Good Friday Agreement mean no border can be put in place so what does that then mean.

How can Britain stop migrants entering Republic, travel to the North and then move onto the UK.

Will Irish people face greater security checks entering mainland UK?

No politician in Britain, in Ireland or in "Europe" is in favour of a hard border or the end to the Common Travel Area. The only people talking about it were "Remain scaremongers" and their views are irrelevant now. There is absolutely no reason to put one in place. There will probably be an agreement on the Island that results in immigration status checks being made at the point of access to services (housing, benefits, hospitals, schools etc). There may be greater passport controls at Holyhead, Gatwick etc but even that remains to be seen.

whatever_

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

timmyntc wrote: »

Nope, Ireland have no obligation to secure the NI border. It's already been looked into and discussed to death. The CTA will stand, there may be customs checkpoints for goods but the free movement of people between the isles can still stand.

Of course this is assuming Ireland don't have a knee-jerk reaction and join schengen now that our buddies in the UK have opted to leave.

Be interesting to see what happens. Does the Good Friday Agreement mean no border can be put in place so what does that then mean.

How can Britain stop migrants entering Republic, travel to the North and then move onto the UK.

Will Irish people face greater security checks entering mainland UK?

No politician in Britain, in Ireland or in "Europe" is in favour of a hard border or the end to the Common Travel Area. The only people talking about it were "Remain scaremongers" and their views are irrelevant now. There is absolutely no reason to put one in place. There will probably be an agreement on the Island that results in immigration status checks being made at the point of access to services (housing, benefits, hospitals, schools etc). There may be greater passport controls at Holyhead, Gatwick etc but even that remains to be seen.

mansize

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ireland has long enjoyed the benefits of a relatively weak currency, boosting exports & disincentivising imports.

The Euro's relatively feeble performance against Sterling/Dollar has been of great help.

There is no logical reason why those benefits cannot be enjoyed by the UK.

Remember a few years ago when the Euro was very strong vs Sterling?
Traders were lamenting the money leaving for NI shopping.

Well, it might come back.
Good for them.

Eh the Euro will be strong now, so money will cross the border again

BoJack Horseman

mansize wrote: »

Eh the Euro will be strong now, so money will cross the border again

.... so you agree that this is good news for the UK?

CMOTDibbler

whatever_ wrote: »

No politician in Britain, in Ireland or in "Europe" is in favour of a hard border or the end to the Common Travel Area. The only people talking about it were "Remain scaremongers" and their views are irrelevant now. There is absolutely no reason to put one in place. There will probably be an agreement on the Island that results in immigration status checks being made at the point of access to services (housing, benefits, hospitals, schools etc). There may be greater passport controls at Holyhead, Gatwick etc but even that remains to be seen.

Have you ever done business with Norway or Switzerland? They both have trade agreements with the EU but there is still a lot of paperwork and customs tariffs between us. That will be the same with the UK and by extension NI. We can't escape the consequences of this decision with regard to our border with NI. It's not just the EU that will want a border control, the UK will want one too, to protect their trade and prevent smuggling. It's inescapable.

Nody

Francie Barrett wrote: »

This is very true, but ultimately is a Luddite reaction. Let's say Britain does close the gates and stop immigration, sure the locals will have more jobs, but it will hurt the long-term prospects of the UK and make it a less attractive place for innovation and investment.

But more jobs would imply that all current manufacturers would stay and continue investing; take the car manufacturers for example who'd face a 10% tax on all imported cars (standard WTO rules which has been implied to go with for EU). Why place the production of the new models in UK instead of simply placing them in any of their other European factories going forward? This is where the real potential loss sits with Brexit; not so much the direct hit but the longer term loss of investments, lowered pensions (as the pension funds are heavily invested in the stock market which are now crashing which will have a knock on effect on pension payments) etc.

whatever_ wrote: »

No politician in Britain, in Ireland or in "Europe" is in favour of a hard border or the end to the Common Travel Area. The only people talking about it were "Remain scaremongers" and their views are irrelevant now. There is absolutely no reason to put one in place. There will probably be an agreement on the Island that results in immigration status checks being made at the point of access to services (housing, benefits, hospitals, schools etc). There may be greater passport controls at Holyhead, Gatwick etc but even that remains to be seen.

Except that's exactly what the Brexit camp was advocating; that they could decide who would enter UK and who does not. Do you seriously think Romania, Poland etc. will approve a deal that let UK cherry pick who they allow to enter as part of the final trade deal? More likely is that the deal will be an all or nothing deal for who's allowed to enter UK from EU and since UK stated position is that they don't want this they will not get the same deal back as that would be vetoed without significant concessions in other areas for Poland, Romania etc. At the end of the day UK exports a lot more EU than EU exports to UK...

mansize

Joy on Twitter as leave voters celebrates no longer being in Eurovision...

whatever_

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

timmyntc wrote: »

Nope, Ireland have no obligation to secure the NI border. It's already been looked into and discussed to death. The CTA will stand, there may be customs checkpoints for goods but the free movement of people between the isles can still stand.

Of course this is assuming Ireland don't have a knee-jerk reaction and join schengen now that our buddies in the UK have opted to leave.

Be interesting to see what happens. Does the Good Friday Agreement mean no border can be put in place so what does that then mean.

How can Britain stop migrants entering Republic, travel to the North and then move onto the UK.

Will Irish people face greater security checks entering mainland UK?

No politician in Britain, in Ireland or in "Europe" is in favour of a hard border or the end to the Common Travel Area. The only people talking about it were "Remain scaremongers" and their views are irrelevant now. There is absolutely no reason to put one in place. There will probably be an agreement on the Island that results in immigration status checks being made at the point of access to services (housing, benefits, hospitals, schools etc). There may be greater passport controls at Holyhead, Gatwick etc but even that remains to be seen.

mansize

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

.... so you agree that this is good news for the UK?

Very short term on the border

zl1whqvjs75cdy

When we smash France on Sunday we'll probably have England in the next round. Boot them out now and give us a pass into the semis. Yay brexit.