Brexit Referendum Superthread

Mr. Farage · 24-06-2016 1:16pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

We would only get a re-run if a Remain campaigner was voted Conservative leader. That is about as likely as me ordering the salad at dinner.

There will be no re-run. The UK isn't Ireland a nation that can be bullied into changing the democratic will of the people ala Nice and Lisbon. The UK is now going to thrive through massive trade deals with the India's, Brazil's and Chinas of this world. I fully expect Denmark, Holland and possibly France to put a referendum to it's people within the next 2-3 years on their continued membership of the united states of Germany, opps sorry Europe.

CMOTDibbler · 24-06-2016 1:16pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What does the €140 a head represent for these countries? I don't know.

But the UK would pay it if things start to go bellyup for them anytime soon.

In my ignorance maybe, doing this (Schengen and Single Market) would seem like a plan!

That's €9 billion per annum for the UK :eek:

24-06-2016 1:18pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I was just wondering (and I'm sure someone will correct my ignorance soon enough!), could UK join the Single Market and adopt Schengen?

We would have to be Shengen too.

Free movement of goods and services, no border checks. No EU membership, just like Switzerland.

Nah, that's too easy.

UK adopt free borders after just running a referendum which specifically set out to close those borders?

no

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:19pm

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

That's €9 billion per annum for the UK :eek:

I know, but I don't know what it pays for!

CMOTDibbler · 24-06-2016 1:20pm

Mr. Farage wrote: »

There will be no re-run. The UK isn't Ireland a nation that can be bullied into changing the democratic will of the people ala Nice and Lisbon. The UK is now going to thrive through massive trade deals with the India's, Brazil's and Chinas of this world. I fully expect Denmark, Holland and possibly France to put a referendum to it's people within the next 2-3 years on their continued membership of the united states of Germany, opps sorry Europe.

The cost of trade with those countries is massive in terms of shipping costs and the higher labour costs in the UK makes them uncompetitive. I can't see how trading with those countries can add up to anything but a massive trade deficit.

I just don't see how that works to their benefit.

Bob24 · 24-06-2016 1:24pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I was just wondering (and I'm sure someone will correct my ignorance soon enough!), could UK join the Single Market and adopt Schengen?

We would have to be Shengen too.

Free movement of goods and services, no border checks. No EU membership, just like Switzerland.

Nah, that's too easy.

You remember those thousands of migrants the UK (rightly or wrongly) doesn't want and which are waiting in Calais and other places in France and Belgium?

The day the UK joins Schengen, French and Belgium police put those people on the Eurostar and hold big celebration for not having to defend UK borders any-more.

So no ... not a chance of joining Schengen.

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

UK adopt free borders after just running a referendum which specifically set out to close those borders?

no

Ah I think that line will soften over time. TBH, although I know immigration was an issue, but I doubt it was the primary one.

Just like Switzerland, UK could, within the Single Market and Schengen decide on their own immigration policies (other than EU free movement) and ignore Merkel's dictats re quotas for refugees etc.

24-06-2016 1:26pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah I think that line will soften over time. TBH, although I know immigration was an issue, but I doubt it was the primary one.

It was.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just like Switzerland, UK could, within the Single Market and Schengen decide on their own immigration policies (other than EU free movement) and ignore Merkel's dictats re quotas for refugees etc.

So absolutely nothing different whatsoever from what they've just said no to?

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:27pm

Bob24 wrote: »

You remember those thousands of migrants the UK (rightly or wrongly) doesn't want and which are waiting in Calais and other places in France and Belgium?

The day the UK joins Schengen, French and Belgium police put those people on the Eurostar and hold big celebration for not having to defend UK borders any-more.

So no ... not a chance of joining Schengen.

I can't imagine France will hold them any longer.

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:27pm

Bob24 wrote: »

You remember those thousands of migrants the UK (rightly or wrongly) doesn't want and which are waiting in Calais and other places in France and Belgium?

The day the UK joins Schengen, French and Belgium police put those people on the Eurostar and hold big celebration for not having to defend UK borders any-more.

So no ... not a chance of joining Schengen.

If the Dublin Agreement on asylum was observed, there would be few of these chancers in Calais and elsewhere in the first place.

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:28pm

EU27 are go! Scotland welcome to be 28!

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It was.

So absolutely nothing different whatsoever from what they've just said no to?

Apart from not having to obey Merkel and the politburo, No MEPs, no directives subsumed into their indigenous legislation, you get the drift... it is different.

whatever_ · 24-06-2016 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I was just wondering (and I'm sure someone will correct my ignorance soon enough!), could UK join the Single Market and adopt Schengen?

We would have to be Shengen too.

Free movement of goods and services, no border checks. No EU membership, just like Switzerland.

Nah, that's too easy.

UK adopt free borders after just running a referendum which specifically set out to close those borders?

no

The referendum was not about closing borders. Schengen has been suspended in several countries and is unlikely to survive the migration crisis. In the unlikely event of an independent Scotland it would join the CTA not Schengen.

Nody · 24-06-2016 1:29pm

Mr. Farage wrote: »

There will be no re-run. The UK isn't Ireland a nation that can be bullied into changing the democratic will of the people ala Nice and Lisbon. The UK is now going to thrive through massive trade deals with the India's, Brazil's and Chinas of this world. I fully expect Denmark, Holland and possibly France to put a referendum to it's people within the next 2-3 years on their continued membership of the united states of Germany, opps sorry Europe.

You mean once China India and Brazil wipes out any manufacturing jobs, right? And unlike UK China has zero issues with state funded companies to undercut foreign markets so they will simply looooove a free trade agreement with UK but don't expect one to be done on equal terms (and good luck adding tariffs as UK alone vs China compared to EU vs China)...

whatever_ wrote: »

The referendum was not about closing borders. Schengen has been suspended in several countries and is unlikely to survive the migration crisis.

Did you listen to the same debate as most of us did? Point system for people coming in. We need to stop unlimited immigration. Stop the Turks from coming here. We need to have the right to decide who will remain in our country and who'll be let in. On every single issue Boris brought up as a reason to stay out such as VAT on fuel it turned out he was lying so he went back to his good old "Scary immigrants" tactics over and over again.

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:30pm

If Albert was around he'd get us a few billion from the EU cos the UK quit

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:31pm

mansize wrote: »

If Albert was around he'd get us a few billion from the EU cos the UK quit

From Irish passports alone...

The_Kew_Tour · 24-06-2016 1:31pm

I was so cocky last night that they would stay. Could see it being no other way. If you take away the immigration vote they won well. England is hugely nationalist country but I thought the upper class would have plenty to spare.

Not totally shocked but thought the 50/50 people would be scared for change. I got it wrong

Bob24 · 24-06-2016 1:31pm

mansize wrote: »

I can't imagine France will hold them any longer.

Well the French governemetn signed an agreement with the UK one saying the border is on the French side of the tunnel. It was probably foolish but now they have to stick with it. They'll probably try to use Brexit to but it back on the table, but I don't think they can stop it anytime soon

K-9 · 24-06-2016 1:32pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The gubberment needs to exploit this angle to the fullest degree - there will be a lot of wealth creators who voted stay with Irish passports or who are eligible for same, they need to be tempted over with a package.

The IDA were apparently told to cool it before the vote but they'll be circling any multinational with cold feet now.

Bob24 · 24-06-2016 1:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If the Dublin Agreement on asylum was observed, there would be few of these chancers in Calais and elsewhere in the first place.

Sure, but obviously it isn't the case.

24-06-2016 1:32pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Apart from not having to obey Merkel and the politburo, No MEPs, no directives subsumed into their indigenous legislation, you get the drift... it is different.

You mean, all the things that are required if you want to join the Single Market but even less of a say in the laws and regulation that they have now? Was the referendum only to make their MEPs redundant?

You can't have it both ways!

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:33pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

From Irish passports alone...

He got to €6 billion for Maastricht

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean, all the things that are required if you want to join the Single Market but even less of a say in the laws and regulation that they have now?

You can't have it both ways!

Switzerland seems to manage fine.

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:34pm

K-9 wrote: »

The IDA were apparently told to cool it before the vote but they'll be circling any multinational with cold feet now.

IBEC were talking up being European bases for companies currently in UK

mansize · 24-06-2016 1:35pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Switzerland seems to manage fine.

Switzerland is very rich

Spanish Eyes · 24-06-2016 1:35pm

mansize wrote: »

He got to €6 billion for Maastricht

I was being tongue in cheek re the passports.

But anecdotally I hear lots of British are checking out their eligibility for an Irish Passport now.

Nody · 24-06-2016 1:35pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Well the French governemetn signed an agreement with the UK one saying the border is on the French side of the tunnel. It was probably foolish but now they have to stick with it. They'll probably try to use Brexit to but it back on the table, but I don't think they can stop it anytime soon

But they can roll back parts of it such as allowing UK checks on French soil and simply tell them that they have to do all their controls at a specific point instead while looking the other way when the jungle camper makes a run for it or reduce the investment in fences to stop them from getting there in the first place. As someone who's been down there (work related) there's plenty of ways France can make sure the immigrants will reach UK and being petty about it (remember with them reaching UK soil France can simply shrug and state it's a UK problem now to deal with).

CMOTDibbler · 24-06-2016 1:36pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Apart from not having to obey Merkel and the politburo, No MEPs, no directives subsumed into their indigenous legislation, you get the drift... it is different.

We'll see hopw different when they finish negotiating their 'independence'. It could be completely different or it could be largely the same thing with a different name.

44% of British exports go to the EU. They need to protect that at least in the medium term.

24-06-2016 1:36pm

whatever_ wrote: »

The referendum was not about closing borders.

I would encourage you to take a look at any of the referendum literature that has been posted through letterboxes here in the past weeks.

The referendum was almost wholly about stopping unfettered immigration putting pressure on public services, undercutting wages, driving up costs of living whilst changing the way of life.

whatever_ · 24-06-2016 1:36pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean, all the things that are required if you want to join the Single Market but even less of a say in the laws and regulation that they have now?

You can't have it both ways!

Switzerland seems to manage fine.

And Norway. And Sweden's position (outside the Euro) looks interesting too.

Brexit Referendum Superthread

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