Brexit Referendum Superthread

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Switzerland seems to manage fine.

whatever_ wrote: »

And Norway. And Sweden's position (outside the Euro) looks interesting too.

Subject to all of the same constraints that the UK was previously subject to and more, making similar per capita contributions to the EU as the UK and more, and having less of a say in EU legislation than the UK did.

Am I reading this correctly?

BKtje

Just on Switzerland's border.. the physical thing still exists and is manned 24/7 by armed border guards. Now most of that is for customs and checking for the Swiss "Motorway" sticker I believe but it is still there. The German side is also manned but much less so, at least visibly.

It was in stark contrast to recrossing borders a few hours later from Germany into the Netherlands where there was just pretty much just a sign. Those using Switzerland as an example of a borderless third party with the EU is mistaken.

Take from that what you will.

mansize

The Dublin agreement refers to the first country they lodge their asylum - not first they arrive in. That's why Syrian refugees were Germany bound

mansize

BKtje wrote: »

Just on Switzerland's border.. the physical thing still exists and is manned 24/7 by armed border guards. Now most of that is for customs and checking for the Swiss "Motorway" sticker I believe but it is still there. The German side is also manned but much less so, at least visibly.

It was in stark contrast to recrossing borders a few hours later from Germany into the Netherlands where there was just pretty much just a sign. Those using Switzerland as an example of a borderless third party with the EU is mistaken.

Take from that what you will.

I passed from Germany to Switzerland with no issue. No visa requirement no stamp on passport

Nody

Deleted User wrote: »

Subject to all of the same constraints that the UK was previously subject to and more, making similar per capita contributions to the EU as the UK and more, and having less of a say in EU legislation than the UK did.

Am I reading this correctly?

You are; in case of Norway and Switzerland they have even less say than Sweden as they are not members and have no vote on anything; Sweden at least has a vote and it's veto power for what it's worth these days.

The_Kew_Tour

Well we have serious Homeless Crisis the last thing we need is people we can't shelter.

In saying that more concerning things worry about, but plenty scare tactics about now.

It's not all roses, but not all end of world either

Nody

mansize wrote: »

I passed from Germany to Switzerland with no issue. No visa requirement no stamp on passport

Because Switzerland signed up for the single market (which includes freedom of movement of individuals which is what the UK wants to reject).

RobertKK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I was so cocky last night that they would stay. Could see it being no other way. If you take away the immigration vote they won well. England is hugely nationalist country but I thought the upper class would have plenty to spare.

Not totally shocked but thought the 50/50 people would be scared for change. I got it wrong

They treated it like a reality show vote where the consequences were insignificant, and today some of the leave voters are saying 'what have I done?'.

whatever_

Nody wrote: »

mansize wrote: »

I passed from Germany to Switzerland with no issue. No visa requirement no stamp on passport

Because Switzerland signed up for the single market (which includes freedom of movement of individuals which is what the UK wants to reject).

Britain and Ireland both rejected Schengen. Both support the Common Travel Area and nobody is arguing for an end to that.

The_Kew_Tour

RobertKK wrote: »

They treated it like a reality show vote where the consequences were insignificant, and today some of the leave voters are saying 'what have I done?'.

True, although I don't see it all doom and gloom for both sides. Ireland could really benefit from all this, not now but in long run


Problem is countries like Holland France and Sweden want a vote now.

If Sweden go it's good night

mansize

whatever_ wrote: »

Britain and Ireland both rejected Schengen. Both support the Common Travel Area and nobody is arguing for an end to that.

That can't continue as is with one member in and one member outside the EU

whatever_

RobertKK wrote: »

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I was so cocky last night that they would stay. Could see it being no other way. If you take away the immigration vote they won well. England is hugely nationalist country but I thought the upper class would have plenty to spare.

Not totally shocked but thought the 50/50 people would be scared for change. I got it wrong

They treated it like a reality show vote where the consequences were insignificant, and today some of the leave voters are saying 'what have I done?'.

Very patronising. I believe in the wisdom of crowds.

partyguinness

Well I am Irish and have been living in England for 9 years- I voted 'In' yesterday.

I do know that if I was still back in Ireland, I would be laughing my ass off but it ain't so funny here in the Midlands.

A lot of the misinformation stems from this living in the past mentality. Over the years on Boards, I have written consistently about the English and this nostalgia obsession and constant looking backward but I always put it down to the 'Angry White Man' who blames dirty foreigners and the faceless EU for just about everything wrong in his life. UKIP etc were able to tap into this and make a lot of noise.

I am an employer and a member of staff told me she voted 'Out'. Basically she said this morning:

'Oh I remember how great it was before the EU, plenty of jobs etc. My hubby lost his job [car maker] and was out of work for 18 months]

Firstly, you were born in 1969- you were effing about 4 when the UK joined the EEC. Your hubby's job moved to Mexico, instead of sitting around on his ass feeling sorry for himself, did he not retrain? Gain further qualifications? No- he can conveniently blame faceless immigrants and the EU

It also does the natives no favours when quite often the Poles, Latvians etc have better reading & writing English than the average 16 year old English teenager (Ah but that's why we heavily recruit for the Army in such areas- hush now..wink wink). '

We can send young barely literate working class men off the Afghanistan as cannon fodder and then bring them back as dead 'Heros'- and the older generation and the BBC can get all misty eyed about the 'good old days' myth is perpetuated.'

The core problem in England is that large industries and cities that were once great powerhouses are now rust buckets, derelict, empty and pretty God damn depressing places. This is down to lack of investment and neglect from central government which in turn created this North-South divide.

Factories closed and tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) lost jobs over the past 50 years. Some people who I have spoken to personally that voted 'Out' are living in cloud cuckoo land- they have deluded themselves into thinking the EU is to blame and by getting out- then BANG- all the jobs and factories will magically reopen and it will be 1965 all over again.

Of course this fantasy is compounded in that the Angry White Man struggling to secure work perceives that immigrants swan into the country and live off the system without a care in the world.

Of course then you have the generation divide- basically elderly people (who are more likely to vote anyway) want 'Out'. Again purely living in dottage for a by gone era from some Enid Blyton book. Retired, living off pensions- they don't care.

I have had intelligent business people sit in front of me saying: 'Oh we can now control our interest rates.'....I mean...WTF!!

I am surrounded by idiots who do not understand the concept of globalistion and are too lazy and thick to educate themselves.

The WASPS have a serious identity crisis and they are just pulled the trap door. The Remain campaign was weak, incoherent and without passion.

Now, it may end up being the best and bravest decision ever but only time will tell. Yes, the EU has problems and it expanded too quick- but that is not the fundamental problem with this country and neither is immigration. It is just an easy target which the political classes are happy to keep quiet about as it deflects attention.

The village idiots have taken over.

mansize

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

True, although I don't see it all doom and gloom for both sides. Ireland could really benefit from all this, not now but in long run


Problem is countries like Holland France and Sweden want a vote now.

If Sweden go it's good night

Only extreme right parties that are not in power

mansize

partyguinness wrote: »

Well I am Irish and have been living in England for 9 years- I voted 'In' yesterday.

I do know that if I was still back in Ireland, I would be laughing my ass off but it ain't so funny here in the Midlands.

A lot of the misinformation stems from this living in the past mentality. Over the years on Boards, I have written consistently about the English and this nostalgia obsession and constant looking backward but I always put it down to the 'Angry White Man' who blames dirty foreigners and the faceless EU for just about everything wrong in his life. UKIP etc were able to tap into this and make a lot of noise.

I am an employer and a member of staff told me she voted 'Out'. Basically she said this morning:

'Oh I remember how great it was before the EU, plenty of jobs etc. My hubby lost his job [car maker] and was out of work for 18 months]

Firstly, you were born in 1969- you were effing about 4 when the UK joined the EEC. Your hubby's job moved to Mexico, instead of sitting around on his ass feeling sorry for himself, did he not retrain? Gain further qualifications? No- he can conveniently blame faceless immigrants and the EU

It also does the natives no favours when quite often the Poles, Latvians etc have better reading & writing English than the average 16 year old English teenager (Ah but that's why we heavily recruit for the Army in such areas- hush now..wink wink). '

We can send young barely literate working class men off the Afghanistan as cannon fodder and then bring them back as dead 'Heros'- and the older generation and the BBC can get all misty eyed about the 'good old days' myth is perpetuated.'

The core problem in England is that large industries and cities that were once great powerhouses and now rust buckets, derelict, empty and pretty God damn depressing places. This is down to lack of investment and neglect from central government which in turn created this North-South divide.

Factories closed and tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) lost jobs over the past 50 years. Some people who I have spoken to personally that voted 'Out' are living in cloud cuckoo land- they have deluded themselves into thinking the EU is to blame and by getting out- then BANG- all the jobs and factories will reopen and it will be 1965 all over again.

Of course this fantasy is compounded in that the Angry White Man struggling to secure work perceives that immigrants swan into the country and live off the system without a care in the world.

Of course then you have the generation divide- basically elderly people (who are more likely to vote anyway) want 'Out'. Again purely living in dottage for a by gone era from some Enid Blyton book. Retired, living off pensions- they don't care.

I have had intelligent business people sit in front of me saying: 'Oh we can now control our interest rates.'....I mean...WTF!!

I am surrounded by idiots who do not understand the concept of globalistion and are too lazy and thick to educate themselves.

The WASPS have a serious identity crisis and they are just pulled the trap door. The Remain campaign was weak, incoherent and without passion.

Now, it may end up being the best and bravest decision ever but only time will tell. Yes, the EU has problems and it expanded too quick- but that is not the fundamental problem with this country and neither is immigration. It is just an easy target which the political classes are happy to keep quiet about as it deflects attention.

The village idiots have taken over.

Hear hear!

CMOTDibbler

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

True, although I don't see it all doom and gloom for both sides. Ireland could really benefit from all this, not now but in long run


Problem is countries like Holland France and Sweden want a vote now.

If Sweden go it's good night

I think there will be a wait and see period. Any country that put things in motion to leave without waiting to see what happens in the UK would be beyond foolish.

partyguinness

RobertKK wrote: »

They treated it like a reality show vote where the consequences were insignificant, and today some of the leave voters are saying 'what have I done?'.

My co-worker is 70 and he voted 'Out' and this morning he is genuinely regretting it and mentioned his grand children suffering.

I think we have made a huge mistake

TonyCliftonEsq

You'd swear civilisation didn't exist before the EU with the panicking going on today.

This is the best day in the history of the European Union since the Maastricht Treaty of 1992.

As an Irishman and a pro-European, I am DELIGHTED. No holding Europe back now. I hope the door doesn't hit Boris's magnificent arse on the way out.

CMOTDibbler

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You'd swear civilisation didn't exist before the EU with the panicking going on today.

It didn't.

mansize

partyguinness wrote: »

My co-worker is 70 and he voted 'Out' and this morning he is genuinely regretting it and mentioned his grand children suffering.

I think we have made a huge mistake

Buyers remorse

The_Kew_Tour

mansize wrote: »

Only extreme right parties that are not in power

Like in UK?

partyguinness

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You'd swear civilisation didn't exist before the EU with the panicking going on today.

I hear you.

You can read all about civilisation pre-ECC/EU in history books but I would draw your particular attention to civilisation during the period 1939-1945.

Kobe248

Mr. Farage wrote: »

There will be no re-run. The UK isn't Ireland a nation that can be bullied into changing the democratic will of the people ala Nice and Lisbon. The UK is now going to thrive through massive trade deals with the India's, Brazil's and Chinas of this world. I fully expect Denmark, Holland and possibly France to put a referendum to it's people within the next 2-3 years on their continued membership of the united states of Germany, opps sorry Europe.

Why do people think they are going to have these deals with Brazils, Indias etc

This is not how its going to work at all

mansize

Rumour has it Donald, Jean-Claude and Martin are holed up in a bunker in Brussels with a Wolfe Tones CD blaring on repeat...

The_Kew_Tour

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I think there will be a wait and see period. Any country that put things in motion to leave without waiting to see what happens in the UK would be beyond foolish.

Good point and would agree. I read somewhere though that Holland wants vote asap. Now how soon I'm not sure.

Sweden right now won't leave, but if extreme right wing politics continue to gain in sweden it could be closer then we think.

Lot of Urban Sweden is getting fed up with lack of leadership and it's cities turning into ghettos never mind the Rape and Homeless Crisis it is now getting too

TonyCliftonEsq

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You'd swear civilisation didn't exist before the EU with the panicking going on today.

Everything was great before the evil bureaucrats starting telling everyone that clothes and sofas had to be flame retardant and to categorise food products to standards which made trade across borders much easier.
The monsters!

TonyCliftonEsq

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything was great before the evil bureaucrats starting telling everyone that clothes and sofas had to be flame retardant and to categorise food products to standards which made trade across borders much easier.
The monsters!

Ask the people starving on the streets in Greece how they feel.

partyguinness

Just spoke to my secretary (24)- she voted out and she just said:-

'To be honest I didn't think 'Out' would win. I dunno just see what happens'

My English wife also voted 'Out'- just to annoy me.

Such in depth thought and analysis is inspiring.

I had to remind her that her boss (me) is an immigrant and to be careful about what she says...:D

Jelle1880

whatever_ wrote: »

And Norway. And Sweden's position (outside the Euro) looks interesting too.

They all had to sign up the EEA regulations though, including free movement of people.

That they put soldiers or police on the border doesn't change that

I think the UK expect to get a special deal without any of those regulations, I guess they'll be in for a shock.