Brexit Referendum Superthread

TonyCliftonEsq

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You'd swear civilisation didn't exist before the EU with the panicking going on today.

The EU has given us peace, prosperity, and The Law on the Classification of Cabbage

TonyCliftonEsq

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

Ask the people starving on the streets in Greece how they feel.

About what exactly? The EU caused them to cook their books, to pay civil servants way-too-high salaries, to have early retirement, to have massive tax avoidance, to refuse to modernise their economy, that kind of stuff?

partyguinness

It should be noted (if not mentioned all ready) that the referendum is not legally binding on Parliament.

Theoretically, Parliament can decide to do nothing and just ignore it. It is now up to Parliament to kick start the exit mechanism.

OfflerCrocGod

I hope our boys in the IDA are all over this. English speaking, in the eurozone, stable, have I mentioned stable? We're stable, no risk of doing anything crazy here like leaving the EU.

https://twitter.com/JohnMoylanBBC/status/746322649186451456

Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff
Posted at 13:53

BBC business reporter Joe Lynam reports...

Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.

mansize

partyguinness wrote: »

It should be noted (if not mentioned all ready) that the referendum is not legally binding on Parliament.

Theoretically, Parliament can decide to do nothing and just ignore it. It is now up to Parliament to kick start the exit mechanism.

We are good at ignoring referenda too

mansize

Deleted User wrote: »

About what exactly? The EU caused them to cook their books, to pay civil servants way-too-high salaries, to have early retirement, to have massive tax avoidance, to refuse to modernise their economy, that kind of stuff?

They should have never been allowed in the EMU

Jelle1880

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

I hope our boys in the IDA are all over this. English speaking, in the eurozone, stable, have I mentioned stable? We're stable, no risk of doing anything crazy here like leaving the EU.

https://twitter.com/JohnMoylanBBC/status/746322649186451456

Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff
Posted at 13:53

BBC business reporter Joe Lynam reports...

Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.

I genuinely think if Ireland handles this right (that's the big IF of course) they might become better out of all this mess.

CMOTDibbler

partyguinness wrote: »

It should be noted (if not mentioned all ready) that the referendum is not legally binding on Parliament.

Theoretically, Parliament can decide to do nothing and just ignore it. It is now up to Parliament to kick start the exit mechanism.

They surely can't procrastinate it away though. Nor ignore it and continue on regardless. It would be a sword of damocles over the whole EU if they did.

OfflerCrocGod

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.

♫ Come back, Colm Kelleher, to Ballyjamesduff ♫
♫ Come home, Morgan Stanley, to mee ♫

Harry Palmr

Basically white, old, poor ignorants said leave the most.

Adamcp898

What has come to pass are the consequences of failing to deal with the class divide that exists between the political/elite/middles classes and the working class person in Britain.

The working class has for a long time felt they don't have a voice with no politician or leader listening to them and the failure of the remain campaign is well and truly this oversight and lack of ability to communicate and get them onside.

The remain campaign badly needed a Trump-like figure. Someone who could identify the huge swathe of middle Britain's disillusioned working class and communicate to them the consequences of leaving the EU instead of talking in terms of "stronger investment for SME's" and other daft buzz phrases that have little or no consequence to the working class.

But the real shame in this vote of uprising against the establishment can be summed up in the interview Stanley Johnson gave this morning where he effectively said he'd love to see his Boris run for Conservative leader.

The working class may have rebelled, but they have just pushed themselves further behind the middle class in terms of influence and wealth for it's them that will feel the effect of leaving the EU the greatest.

OfflerCrocGod

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

♫ Come back, Colm Kelleher, to Ballyjamesduff ♫
♫ Come home, Morgan Stanley, to mee ♫

2000 investment banking jobs? Roll out the red carpet.

Tigerandahalf

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

I hope our boys in the IDA are all over this. English speaking, in the eurozone, stable, have I mentioned stable? We're stable, no risk of doing anything crazy here like leaving the EU.

https://twitter.com/JohnMoylanBBC/status/746322649186451456

Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff
Posted at 13:53

BBC business reporter Joe Lynam reports...

Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.

So the tax dodging will move elsewhere. What a great loss those people will be.

Not sure we should be inviting this crowd into Dublin pushing up house prices when we can't house our own.

It is genuine investment that the country needs.

sadie06

partyguinness wrote: »

Such in depth thought and analysis is inspiring.

Yep, we had relatives text us on the way to the polling station 'In or out?'.

I think that was the height of their engagement.

mansize

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Basically white, old, poor ignorants said leave the most.

Who are clearly the most disenfranchised in our society- this needs to be addressed

TonyCliftonEsq

Deleted User wrote: »

About what exactly? The EU caused them to cook their books, to pay civil servants way-too-high salaries, to have early retirement, to have massive tax avoidance, to refuse to modernise their economy, that kind of stuff?

You can't speak of a union and "European friends" and then treat a member state like the way Greece has been treated. Brussels knew well what Greece was like when they admitted them to the Euro.

Brussels of course tries to absolve itself of all blame and prefers to let the Greeks rot.

Terrible mismanagement all round, they must own it rather than point the finger when it suits them and look the other way as and when they see fit.

RobertKK

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

I hope our boys in the IDA are all over this. English speaking, in the eurozone, stable, have I mentioned stable? We're stable, no risk of doing anything crazy here like leaving the EU.

https://twitter.com/JohnMoylanBBC/status/746322649186451456

Morgan Stanley looks to move 2,000 London staff
Posted at 13:53

BBC business reporter Joe Lynam reports...

Sources within Morgan Stanley say it has already begun the process of moving about 2,000 of its London-based investment banking staff to Dublin or Frankfurt. And it has a taskforce in place.

The jobs which would be moved from the UK would be in euro clearing but also other investment banking functions and senior management.

The American investment bank needs to avail of the passporting system which allows banks to offer financial services in all countries in the EU without having to establish a permanent base in that member state.

The president of Morgan Stanley, Colm Kelleher, told Bloomberg two days ago that Brexit would be “the most consequential thing that we’ve ever seen since the war”.

I was watching CNBC around 6.30am and then JP Morgan were saying between 1,000 and 4,000 of their 16,000 UK jobs would be moved elsewhere.

mansize

mansize wrote: »

They should have never been allowed in the EMU

True. That's what happens when you try to help people though.

RobertKK

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You can't speak of a union and "European friends" and then treat a member state like the way Greece has been treated. Brussels knew well what Greece was like when they admitted them to the Euro.

Brussels of course tries to absolve itself of all blame and prefers to let the Greeks rot.

Terrible mismanagement all round, they must own it rather than point the finger when it suits them and look the other way as and when they see fit.

Goldman Sachs cooked the books for Greece.

OfflerCrocGod

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So the tax dodging will move elsewhere. What a great loss those people will be.

Not sure we should be inviting this crowd into Dublin pushing up house prices when we can't house our own.

It is genuine investment that the country needs.

It's clearing euro transactions, not wealth management banking that we are talking about here. Lots of perfectly legal and necessary business needs to buy and sell euro assets. These business support many other ancillary jobs in the software, legal and accountancy worlds (and many others). We should be welcoming them. As for investment guess what you need for that? Money. Guess what follows these companies/jobs? That's right, money.

Harry Palmr

mansize wrote: »

Who are clearly the most disenfranchised in our society- this needs to be addressed

Indeed. Project fear was actually among the population who have been to a greater or lesser degree left behind by the modern world.

CMOTDibbler

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So the tax dodging will move elsewhere. What a great loss those people will be.

Not sure we should be inviting this crowd into Dublin pushing up house prices when we can't house our own.

It is genuine investment that the country needs.

Putting aside the financial services industry (and many of those people won't move to Dublin or Frankfurt meaning jobs for people here), but the likes of Apple, IBM, Google, Microsoft etc. will all be looking at making similar decisions.

TonyCliftonEsq

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

You can't speak of a union and "European friends" and then treat a member state like the way Greece has been treated. Brussels knew well what Greece was like when they admitted them to the Euro.

How should they have treated them? They were offered more of a write-down than Ireland, what's so special about them? They had a referendum thanks to that idiot who told them they'd leave if they "had to" and still he had to back down because the people believed his bull****.

Brussels of course tries to absolve itself of all blame and prefers to let the Greeks rot.

Bull****, they were offered write-downs and debts pushed back decades which likely would never have to be repaid.

Terrible mismanagement all round, they must own it rather than point the finger when it suits them and look the other way as and when they see fit.

They did what they did and Greece is in the ****ter. Ireland isn't. Funny that, a bit of cooperation and a country is doing quite well.

RobertKK

Morgan Stanley has denied the BBC report that London is set to lose 2,000 workers.

partyguinness

Adamcp898 wrote: »

What has come to pass are the consequences of failing to deal with the class divide that exists between the political/elite/middles classes and the working class person in Britain.

The working class has for a long time felt they don't have a voice with no politician or leader listening to them and the failure of the remain campaign is well and truly this oversight and lack of ability to communicate and get them onside.

The remain campaign badly needed a Trump-like figure. Someone who could identify the huge swathe of middle Britain's disillusioned working class and communicate to them the consequences of leaving the EU instead of talking in terms of "stronger investment for SME's" and other daft buzz phrases that have little or no consequence to the working class.

But the real shame in this vote of uprising against the establishment can be summed up in the interview Stanley Johnson gave this morning where he effectively said he'd love to see his Boris run for Conservative leader.

The working class may have rebelled, but they have just pushed themselves further behind the middle class in terms of influence and wealth for it's them that will feel the effect of leaving the EU the greatest.

I think the 'first past the post' system does not help. Large swathes of the electorate do not get a 'voice'.

As mentioned by FOT today, 4m people voted for UKIP in the last election but it does not have a single MP.

Plus local MPs generally are parachuted into a constituency and have absolutely no connection with the locality or population which cannot help.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

I think the 'first past the post' system does not help. Large swathes of the electorate do not get a 'voice'.

As mentioned by FOT today, 4m people voted for UKIP in the last election but it does not have a single MP.

Plus local MPs generally are parachuted into a constituency and have absolutely no connection with the locality or population which cannot help.

just the one - Carswell

Although "traditional" City banking institutions may relocate some staff to Frankfurt or Dublin, we ought to bear in mind that there are plenty of AIFs (hedge funds) in Dublin who would be delighted to relocate to a more liberalised City of London, unconstrained by restrictive EU regulation.

So there may be a flow of financial services in both direction.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Although "traditional" City banking institutions may relocate some staff to Frankfurt or Dublin, we ought to bear in mind that there are plenty of AIFs (hedge funds) in Dublin who would be delighted to relocate to a more liberalised City of London, unconstrained by restrictive EU regulation.

So there may be a flow of financial services in both direction.

Depends on how they can then transfer their funds/profits afterwards.

CMOTDibbler

Rory McIlroy

Francie Barrett

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Although "traditional" City banking institutions may relocate some staff to Frankfurt or Dublin, we ought to bear in mind that there are plenty of AIFs (hedge funds) in Dublin who would be delighted to relocate to a more liberalised City of London, unconstrained by restrictive EU regulation.

So there may be a flow of financial services in both direction.

That is a good point. Don't we have a financial transactions tax in place here? The UK will no long be subject to anti-competition law in the EU, so I imagine they can throw incentives at an wavering City companies.