Brexit Referendum Superthread

embraer170

I wouldn't agree. The people that are panicing are business/media people who didn't see the vote going through. As Farage said it was a victory for ordinary people having their say.

You would not agree that the UK paying 350 million pounds a week to the EU was lie?

You would not agree the constantly repeated stories that Turkey will join tomorrow were lies?

You would not agree agree that the pledge to give the 350 million to the NHS instead was a lie? Oh, even Farage has now admitted it was wrong to promise that:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36624697
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/nigel-farage-admits-his-bold-brexit-claim-was-mistake

As for Scottish independence it is very hard to see it happen. If they go independent they will have to reapply for EU membership which could take years leaving them out of the UK and the EU. Can't see it happening.

It would be a relatively easy accession.

Scotland already has the full body of Community law. The main open question would be Schengen/UK border and the currency, but a solution will be found for these.

When things got bad in Iceland, the EU offered an fast-tracked accession process. It didn't happen in the end because of fisheries, but a pragmatic approach was taken by the Institutions. The signs from Brussels are that the same would be offered to Scotland.

Tigerandahalf

Another potential benefit for Ireland could be the Teaching English section. Huge numbers of Europeans come to Britain every year to learn English. Now their only outlet will be to come to Ireland. The same for Irish people teaching English in Europe.

BoJack Horseman

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Huge numbers of Europeans come to Britain every year to learn English.

It is believe that the English language will continue to enjoy widespread use in the UK.

The Irish government have been shutting down these schools as they are often just illegal immigration fronts.

swampgas

I see Spain is looking for joint sovereignty over Gibraltar ...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36618796

If the UK is looking for a sweet deal from the EU, there are a number of EU members who might want their pound of flesh.

Spain might want a deal on Gibraltar, Greece might require a return of the Elgin marbles ... okay maybe that's fanciful, but when it comes to negotiations with the EU, Cameron's recent antics pissing off the rest of the member states might come back to bite them.

Edit: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36626553 mayor of Calais also looking to change arrangements on refugees.

Bob24

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Another potential benefit for Ireland could be the Teaching English section. Huge numbers of Europeans come to Britain every year to learn English. Now their only outlet will be to come to Ireland. The same for Irish people teaching English in Europe.

Malta is also quite popular for English courses ... cheaper and with better weather and food than the UK and Ireland ;-)

And Brexit doesn't' mean closing all languages schools and rejecting all European students ... people have to stop thinking Britain will erect a wall and stop EU citizens form travelling for leisure, studying, or business. The leave campaign was on about economic migrants who work and settle in the UK, they never said they want to block short term visitors.

Boskowski

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Reading some of the papers this morning gives the impression that Ire will find itself between a rock and a hard place - stay in the EU and avail of FDI or eventually follow the UK and leave in order to maintain trade.

Ire will have a strong case to make for the UK to be given a good deal otherwise it may not be in our interests to remain in the EU.

Have to take your hat off to the British as they have put a halt to the whole European integration project.

I get that vibe off some of the politicians on air, too. That self inflated view that without Britain everything comes to a halt. Well, the thing is it won't. The EU will move on and Britan will be left watching from the side.

As for Ireland following... you are misreading the situation entirely. This is the biggest mess-up in European history and the Brits will have a hard time explaining it. Anyone even talking about following them would want to have their head examined.

CMOTDibbler

Boskowski wrote: »

As for Ireland following... you are misreading the situation entirely. This is the biggest mess-up in European history and the Brits will have a hard time explaining it. Anyone even talking about following them would want to have their head examined.

There will be lots of calls for others to follow because there's nothing worse than being outside the tent on your own. Those politicians at the forefront of the leave campaign will be trying their damndest to bring the European Union down with them.

Dan Hannan on Newsnight last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jTRoySFfo

Reveals that the big bad immigrants are still to be let in once the UK leaves.

That's not what all the people round here voted for!

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Dan Hannan on Newsnight last night...

Reveals that the big bad immigrants are still to be let in once the UK leaves.

That's not what all the people round here voted for!

Any amount of research on the subject would have shown that immigration will either stay the same, increase or decrease entirely spontaneously. Voting Leave won't change this at all and yet it was a primary issue.

Boskowski

I predict that Britain will try everything to back paddle without losing too much credibility. Cameron stepping down playing for time and Boris 'no haste' are the first steps of damage limitation. History books won't look kindly on the conservative party's antics on this matter.

CMOTDibbler

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Any amount of research on the subject would have shown that immigration will either stay the same, increase or decrease entirely spontaneously. Voting Leave won't change this at all and yet it was a primary issue.

Even the fact that half the net immigration was from outside the EU didn't seem to dawn on people.

Or that as a net figure, it was also dependant on British people emigrating to the EU and elsewhere.

Of course that might be increasing if the Google searches for Irish, Australian and Canadian passports is indicative of anything.

ancapailldorcha

I'm hoping that when this becomes apparent, there'll be calls for another referendum.

robindch

Deleted User wrote: »

Reveals that the big bad immigrants are still to be let in once the UK leaves. That's not what all the people round here voted for!

In shock news, a leave-campaigner turns out to be a liar.

Film at 11.

robindch

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm hoping that when this becomes apparent, there'll be calls for another referendum.

Whatever about the campaign of unmitigated deceit and xenophobia which let to this idiotic result, the demands to do this properly have not been long in coming - a petition to hold another referendum has already reached almost a million signatures:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

whether the parliament will act on this, or the rage felt by millions - most especially the young - that their future has been stolen by cranks, nutters and fools, is another thing.

Ally Dick

There's a world of pain coming for Cameron before September. He deserves every bit of it. He should never have called a referendum. It was a lot to do with his arrogance after getting re-elected

ancapailldorcha

robindch wrote: »

Whatever about the campaign of unmitigated deceit and xenophobia which let to this idiotic result, the demands to do this properly have not been long in coming - a petition to hold another referendum has already reached almost a million signatures:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

whether the parliament will act on this, or the rage felt by millions - most especially the young - that their future has been stolen by cranks, nutters and fools, is another thing.

I was just going to share this! If it was about sovereignty, I'd think that I'd concede that Leave won on that basis. However, given the prominence of immigration in the debates, I think that a call for another referendum is fair.

The petition is worth **** all I'm afraid.

There was a petition to leave on Thursday that got effectively 17.4m signatures.

ancapailldorcha

Ally Dick wrote: »

There's a world of pain coming for Cameron before September. He deserves every bit of it. He should never have called a referendum. It was a lot to do with his arrogance after getting re-elected

I disagree in that it was an attempt to keep his party together. This wasn't about addressing the electorate's concerns, it was to keep the Tories united and to keep them from defecting to UKIP. He dealt himself an abysmal hand in that he was quite Eursceptic for much of his career. Ironically, Corbyn was the same and showed it with his lack of enthusiasm in campaigning to remain.

Harry Palmr

Buyers remorse will be setting in very soon as the truth of the lies about what voting leave will achieve becomes apparent.

CMOTDibbler

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I disagree in that it was an attempt to keep his party together. This wasn't about addressing the electorate's concerns, it was to keep the Tories united and to keep them from defecting to UKIP. He dealt himself an abysmal hand in that he was quite Eursceptic for much of his career. Ironically, Corbyn was the same and showed it with his lack of enthusiasm in campaigning to remain.

Yeah, Corbyn was a joke. The most unconvincing proponent of anything that I have ever seen.

It was kind of the perfect storm really. UKIP make strides in the polls and get some Tories to defect, Cameron tries to steal their clothes by promising a referendum. Labour elect a eurosceptic as leader...

swampgas

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yeah, Corbyn was a joke. The most unconvincing proponent of anything that I have ever seen.

It was kind of the perfect storm really. UKIP make strides in the polls and get some Tories to defect, Cameron tries to steal their clothes by promising a referendum. Labour elect a eurosceptic as leader...

Corbyn is nonetheless a principled politician, he's always been a Eurosceptic. If anyone has screwed up here it's the Labour party for making Corbyn its leader with a Brexit referendum on the horizon.

ancapailldorcha

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yeah, Corbyn was a joke. The most unconvincing proponent of anything that I have ever seen.

It was kind of the perfect storm really. UKIP make strides in the polls and get some Tories to defect, Cameron tries to steal their clothes by promising a referendum. Labour elect a eurosceptic as leader...

Part of me blames him more than Farage. Nigel at least has been consistent in his desire to leave the EU. Corbyn could at least have allowed someone else to take charge of Labour's campaign like Ed Milliband. Instead he chose to give a limp performance with many core voters not knowing what Labour's stance was.

robindch

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a petition to leave on Thursday that got effectively 17.4m signatures.

Based upon a campaign of deceit and xenophobia - that's not the action of mature, stable democracy.

People are quite within their rights to call for a referendum based upon an informed and unencumbered choice made from reliable information.

What's been interesting so far is the unbelievable speed with which the leave-campaigners have repudiated their campaign slogans - F*rage has abandoned his 350million quid a week thing, Hannan has pointed out that immigration won't stop. To say nothing of Scotland looking to exit, Gibralter looking shakey, Northern Ireland having a think.

It was pointed out that a leave-vote would open a Pandora's box of instability and that's exactly what's happend - though before the referendum, anybody who pointed this out was accused of "bias" or "scare-mongering" as though that was a response which answered the concern.

Francie Barrett

chasm wrote: »

It's all just peachy apparently, if this post being shared all over my newsfeed is anything to go by.....

"So....

The £ plummeted. A Prime Minister resigned. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. Then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negotiations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

A record $2 trillion was wiped off the value of global equity markets. This was only in the first 24 hours on trading.

gandalf

So is Corbyn going to throw himself on his sword this morning as well?

robindch

robindch wrote: »

Based upon a campaign of deceit and xenophobia - that's not the action of mature, stable democracy.

People are quite within their rights to call for a referendum based upon an informed and unencumbered choice made from reliable information.

What's been interesting so far is the unbelievable speed with which the leave-campaigners have repudiated their campaign slogans - F*rage has abandoned his 350million quid a week thing, Hannan has pointed out that immigration won't stop. To say nothing of Scotland looking to exit, Gibralter looking shakey, Northern Ireland having a think.

It was pointed out that a leave-vote would open a Pandora's box of instability and that's exactly what's happend - though before the referendum, anybody who pointed this out was accused of "bias" or "scare-mongering" as though that was a response which answered the concern.

I agree, the mitigating circumstances are clear. But 17.4m > 1m.

I can't see the petition doing anything.

swampgas

gandalf wrote: »

So is Corbyn going to throw himself on his sword this morning as well?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/redbox/topic/brexit-britain/corbyn-calls-for-pm-to-trigger-article-50-immediately

Considering that he's called for Article 50 to be invoked immediately, he is either fully in favour of Brexit and wants to force it to go ahead, or he is trying to outflank Boris et al.

I think he'll be pushed out very quickly.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree, the mitigating circumstances are clear. But 17.4m > 1m.

I can't see the petition doing anything.

Maybe not but repeated attempts might. In any case, why is Boris now saying that there is no hurry to invoke Article 50 I wonder?

karma_

swampgas wrote: »

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/redbox/topic/brexit-britain/corbyn-calls-for-pm-to-trigger-article-50-immediately

Considering that he's called for Article 50 to be invoked immediately, he is either fully in favour of Brexit and wants to force it to go ahead, or he is trying to outflank Boris et al.

I think he'll be pushed out very quickly.

Any outflank you would think would rely on there being a delay for as long as possible. The best way would be for an early election and positioning Labour on a platform of remain which if they won would be a clear mandate.

gandalf

swampgas wrote: »

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/redbox/topic/brexit-britain/corbyn-calls-for-pm-to-trigger-article-50-immediately

Considering that he's called for Article 50 to be invoked immediately, he is either fully in favour of Brexit and wants to force it to go ahead, or he is trying to outflank Boris et al.

I think he'll be pushed out very quickly.

Watching him at the moment waffling on. Looks like the Parliamentary Labour Party will have to pull the trigger so.