Brexit Referendum Superthread

Inquitus

smjm wrote: »

I think they qualify for British Citizenship by descent through you, but I'm not 100%. Check the link a few posts up. (Sorry, I'm too new to post links! )

Thanks I had a read but couldn't draw a final conclusion, its not very well explained not to mention the rules seem to have changed around 2006.

murphaph

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Do you think it happens overnight?

It takes a minimum of 2 years which most likely will be extended.

The UK voted to leave. But delaying the inevitable makes it worse for everyone.

The UK voters have spoken of what they want.

There is nothing else to talk about.

UK: Im Leaving

EU: OK Leave

UK, Hold On, Im not ready, I have no plan.

EU: Why didnt you think of that before you said you were Leaving?

UK: * Silence *

But the UK hasn't said it's leaving. Their referenda don't work like ours. They have no legal meaning. It's up to the prime minister to invoke article 50.

lennymc

This report suggests that "the 27 other member states - could trigger the negotiating process as soon as the prime minister discusses Brexit with other EU leaders" as "The treaty does not say how this process of notification should happen"

Polo_Mint

donaghs wrote: »

Nowhere did I say I thought it would happen overnight. Quite the opposite, hence mentioning Angela Merkel's recent comments.

Who in the UK should have such a plan? Cameron wanted to stay in, so was not interested in being in power after Leave vote.
The plan of the Leave campaign seems to have been to begin negotiations on a new relationship, after the referendum, if they won. And that it would "take as long as it takes". That reality seems to be settling in now.

But you are proving exactly what im saying.

WTF are the UK doing calling a referendum when they have absolutely no idea how do deal with the outcome.

The EU know exactly how to deal with it and have alway had the people on standby to start negotiations.


Not only has the person who gave people the chance to vote resigned, The person in europe who was supposed to deal with it has also resigned.

The EU, The Rest of the World governments and also the global markets are thinking, WTF are the UK doing.


You have leave politicians in NI tell people to get Irish passports.

You have Scotland looking to remove themselves from the UK.

Wales will be looking for the English to give them money.

The English could have there Financial markets pulled from underneath them.

its an absolute cluster**** for the UK

whatever_

lennymc wrote: »

This report suggests that "the 27 other member states - could trigger the negotiating process as soon as the prime minister discusses Brexit with other EU leaders" as "The treaty does not say how this process of notification should happen"

We're leaving. The EU need to wake up to the fact that they cannot push us around any more !

Polo_Mint

murphaph wrote: »

But the UK hasn't said it's leaving. Their referenda don't work like ours. They have no legal meaning. It's up to the prime minister to invoke article 50.

The People were asked, Do you want to leave the EU.

They said yes by majority.

Unless they have went from a democracy to a dictatorship in 24hr then they will be leaving

whatever_

Burty330 wrote: »

whatever_ wrote: »

Yes. If you were born before 1983 and are of good character.

Interesting.

Born 1982.. Can i apply while living in Eire ?

Yes. But I want to say to you that nobody is arguing for the end of the Common Travel Area (your right as an Irish citizen to travel freely throughout the UK) and there is no reason why this should change. Remember there are hundreds of thousands of us living and working together in each other's countries - this is not going to change.

ShooterSF

The EU should just take the initiative. Work out what needs to be signed so the UK can join Turkey, Russia etc outside the EU and say, "We've done all the paper work for you. Sign here and you're free to do whatever it is you want to do with yourselves. Bye."

Inquitus

whatever_ wrote: »

We're leaving. The EU need to wake up to the fact that they cannot push us around any more !

lol, thats utter nonsense, any agreement that is made will likely require, freedom of travel and a requirement to adhere to most EU rules and standards, without any possibility of influencing their creation. Have you read the EEA agreement which deals with Norway and Switzerland among others who have access to the single market without being members of the EU, would you expect the UK to be any different?

lennymc

whatever_ wrote: »

We're leaving. The EU need to wake up to the fact that they cannot push us around any more !

The report was highlighting that the official notification that UK are leaving does not have to be in an official letter (as seems to be the assumption of most people), and that any mention of the fact that UK voted to leave by Cameron when talking to other EU leaders could be taken as notification, and the 2 year timeline could technically start then. I don't see how that is pushing anyone around.

Why so defensive?

ShooterSF

whatever_ wrote: »

Yes. But I want to say to you that nobody is arguing for the end of the Common Travel Area (your right as an Irish citizen to travel freely throughout the UK) and there is no reason why this should change. Remember there are hundreds of thousands of us living and working together in each other's countries - this is not going to change.

The UK public voted to leave the EU partially on the issue of immigrants. Why would they want to let the CTA continue?

smjm

Polo_Mint wrote: »

But you are proving exactly what im saying.

WTF are the UK doing calling a referendum when they have absolutely no idea how do deal with the outcome.

The referendum is to ask the people what they want in general. It doesn't go into specifics itself. Indeed, it can't, because the specific details can only be worked out by negotiation and you can't negotiate until you've got the mandate of the people via the referendum.

It was the same with the Scottish independence referendum. Oddly, some people criticising the UK for not having a plan now, supported that referendum and are calling for a new one.

embraer170

ShooterSF wrote: »

The UK public voted to leave the EU partially on the issue of immigrants. Why would they want to let the CTA continue?

We're seeing representatives of the Leave campaign telling people that immigration will likely continue... :rolleyes:

The British electorate was lied to by Leave. These were not small tales but very big fat lies.

whatever_

Polo_Mint wrote: »

donaghs wrote: »

Nowhere did I say I thought it would happen overnight. Quite the opposite, hence mentioning Angela Merkel's recent comments.

Who in the UK should have such a plan? Cameron wanted to stay in, so was not interested in being in power after Leave vote.
The plan of the Leave campaign seems to have been to begin negotiations on a new relationship, after the referendum, if they won. And that it would "take as long as it takes". That reality seems to be settling in now.

But you are proving exactly what im saying.

WTF are the UK doing calling a referendum when they have absolutely no idea how do deal with the outcome.

The EU know exactly how to deal with it and have alway had the people on standby to start negotiations.


Not only has the person who gave people the chance to vote resigned, The person in europe who was supposed to deal with it has also resigned.

The EU, The Rest of the World governments and also the global markets are thinking, WTF are the UK doing.


You have leave politicians in NI tell people to get Irish passports.

You have Scotland looking to remove themselves from the UK.

Wales will be looking for the English to give them money.

The English could have there Financial markets pulled from underneath them.

its an absolute cluster**** for the UK

Some people, like myself, may apply for an Irish passport, but I probably won't bother - it won't be necessary.
Scotland may go, but from an economic point of view, this is a good thing for England - they currently spend 12 billion sterling more than they raise in taxes and guess who pays for that (clue: not the EU). The oil price has fallen by 50% since their last referendum (and this will not plug the gap).

Where do you think Wales's money comes from anyway ? (clue: not the EU). And on that subject, we will save Port Talbot now we are unencumbered by EU regulations.

Some finance jobs will move from the City - probably some to Dublin and some to Frankfurt. This is a good thing all round. London (and the UK) needs less finance and more manufacturing (which will happen due to a lower pound and greater investment).

So your analysis is wrong. I see no downside. Now all we need to do is to persuade NI to leave ...

embraer170

smjm wrote: »

The referendum is to ask the people what they want in general. It doesn't go into specifics itself. Indeed, it can't, because the specific details can only be worked out by negotiation and you can't negotiate until you've got the mandate of the people via the referendum.

The Leave campaign went into great details on what the benefits of Brexit would be.

One would have thought they might have some plan on how benefits would be achieved?

Inquitus

whatever_ wrote: »

Some people, like myself, may apply for an Irish passport, but I probably won't bother - it won't be necessary.
Scotland may go, but from an economic point of view, this is a good thing for England - they currently spend 12 billion sterling more than they raise in taxes and guess who pays for that (clue: not the EU). The oil price has fallen by 50% since their last referendum (and this will not plug the gap).

Where do you think Wales's money comes from anyway ? (clue: not the EU). And on that subject, we will save Port Talbot now we are unencumbered by EU regulations.

Some finance jobs will move from the City - probably some to Dublin and some to Frankfurt. This is a good thing all round. London (and the UK) needs less finance and more manufacturing (which will happen due to a lower pound and greater investment).

So your analysis is wrong. I see no downside. Now all we need to do is to persuade NI to leave ...

Port Talbot will be long closed before an exit from the EU is concluded. British manufacturing was lost long ago and is not about to undergo a renaissance on an exit from the EU. Leaving the EU is also not going to stop China dumping steel on the UK market anyways, which is the root cause of the domestic steel industries woes.

Any trade deal reached as mentioned above will bring with it a requirement to accept EU regulations, anything manufactured for sale to the EU will have to continue to meet European standards.

whatever_

embraer170 wrote: »

ShooterSF wrote: »

The UK public voted to leave the EU partially on the issue of immigrants. Why would they want to let the CTA continue?

We're seeing representatives of the Leave campaign telling people that immigration will likely continue... :rolleyes:

The British electorate was lied to by Leave. These were not small tales but very big fat lies.

Name one British, Irish or "European" politician who is advocating the end of the CTA. Both sides told porky pies - do not assume that we are so naive as not to be able to decode the spin.

embraer170

whatever_ wrote: »

Name one British, Irish or "European" politician who is advocating the end of the CTA. Both sides told porky pies - do not assume that we are so naive as not to be able to decode the spin.

I never said the CTA will end... I just think whatever deal the UK manages to negotiate with the UK will have to include the free movement of people. That is definitely not what was sold to the British electorate.

whatever_

embraer170 wrote: »

ShooterSF wrote: »

The UK public voted to leave the EU partially on the issue of immigrants. Why would they want to let the CTA continue?

We're seeing representatives of the Leave campaign telling people that immigration will likely continue... :rolleyes:

The British electorate was lied to by Leave. These were not small tales but very big fat lies.

Name one British, Irish or "European" politician who is advocating the end of the CTA.

Of course immigration will continue. All major political parties in the UK (including UKIP) are pro-immigration. This is Britain we are talking about, not Sweden, Holland, France etc.

Both sides told porky pies. Do not be so naive as to think that we cannot decode the spin.

pablomakaveli

whatever_ wrote: »

Where do you think Wales's money comes from anyway ? (clue: not the EU). And on that subject, we will save Port Talbot now we are unencumbered by EU regulations.

I wouldnt be so quick to say that if I were you.

embraer170

Not looking good for Farage:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/furious-nigel-farage-to-take-control-of-britains-exit-from-the-e/?WT.mc_id=e_DM132324&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FPM_New_AEM_Recipient&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_FPM_New_AEM_Recipient_2016_06_25&utm_campaign=DM132324

smjm

embraer170 wrote: »

The Leave campaign went into great details on what the benefits of Brexit would be.

One would have thought they might have some plan on how benefits would be achieved?

The Leave campaign was just that: a campaign. They couldn't and can't negotiate; only Parliament can do that, most of whose MP's wanted to stay in the EU! It is a fairly odd situation, but that's just the way it is. As I said, it was and is the same for Scotland. The Scottish government can't negotiate with the UK parliament until they have a mandate from the Scottish people - and they can't negotiate with the EU because they're not an independent nation. Nothing is simple in politics.

whatever_

embraer170 wrote: »

whatever_ wrote: »

Name one British, Irish or "European" politician who is advocating the end of the CTA. Both sides told porky pies - do not assume that we are so naive as not to be able to decode the spin.

I never said the CTA will end... I just think whatever deal the UK manages to negotiate with the UK will have to include the free movement of people. That is definitely not what was sold to the British electorate.

I followed the Referendum closely, and the only people who tried to suggest that the CTA would end were Remain scaremongers. Apart from that, the CTA was not a campaign issue. Both Leave Campaigns were very clear about their positions on immigration. So you are mistaken.

embraer170

whatever_ wrote: »

I followed the Referendum closely, and the only people who tried to suggest that the CTA would end were Remain scaremongers. Apart from that, the CTA was not a campaign issue. Both Leave Campaigns were very clear about their positions on immigration. So you are mistaken.

Again, I never said tanyone legitimate had suggested the CTA would end.

However, they are already taking a step back from the promised strict stance on immigration:

Even the Leave campaign knows that the only way they will negotiate a decent deal with the is if the free movement of people is allowed. Norway was repeatedly listed as a model by the Leave campaign. What the people weren't told is that:

1) Norway's and the UK's contribution to the EU bare both 0.22-0.23% of their GDP.
2) As percentage of total population, there are more Poles in Norway than in the UK.

All this without the Norway having any say in EU decision making.

CMOTDibbler

whatever_ wrote: »

I followed the Referendum closely, and the only people who tried to suggest that the CTA would end were Remain scaremongers. Apart from that, the CTA was not a campaign issue. Both Leave Campaigns were very clear about their positions on immigration. So you are mistaken.

I've heard this over and over but I can't figure out how the CTA can stay. This is a completely different situation than pertained before we both joined the EEC. Now for the first time, we're in a different block from the UK and what we agree with Britain affects all of Europe.

Patser

Yorkshire is latest region that voted Leave to ask will it's EU money still come, or be covered by British Govt. In this case £600 million over next 4 years.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/guarantees-wanted-over-the-future-of-european-millions-1-7982120

mansize

Patser wrote: »

Yorkshire is latest region that voted Leave to ask will it's EU money still come, or be covered by British Govt. In this case £600 million over next 4 years.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/guarantees-wanted-over-the-future-of-european-millions-1-7982120

Turkeys votes for Christmas - didn't release they were the dinner, not invited to it!

CMOTDibbler

Patser wrote: »

Yorkshire is latest region that voted Leave to ask will it's EU money still come, or be covered by British Govt. In this case £600 million over next 4 years.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/guarantees-wanted-over-the-future-of-european-millions-1-7982120

So that's Cornwall and Yorkshire so far.

This is the true cost of Brexit. The British taxpayer will either have to shoulder the burden or the handouts have to stop.

mansize

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

So that's Cornwall and Yorkshire so far.

This is the true cost of Brexit. The British taxpayer will either have to shoulder the burden or the handouts have to stop.

And Wales and Foster in NI

Sam Russell

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I've heard this over and over but I can't figure out how the CTA can stay. This is a completely different situation than pertained before we both joined the EEC. Now for the first time, we're in a different block from the UK and what we agree with Britain affects all of Europe.

The CTA is stitched into British nationality law. They can pass any law they like to allow people to reside, work or vistit the UK. If they wish to continue the CTA, that is up to them post EU membership. If Ireland elects to continue the CTA that might be an issue with the EU, but as it only extends to the right of UK passport holders to travel, work and reside within the CTA then it really does not matter to the EU. The rights relating to the CTA gives no rights outside the CTA. The same applies to Shengen.