Brexit Referendum Superthread

Inquitus

whatever_ wrote: »

Port Talbot will not be closed. The British manufacturing sector is still around the 10th biggest in the world and employs 2 million people. Yes we can stop China dumping steel in Britain when we are free from the EU, we will place tariffs on their steel if necessary.

We can trade with whoever we want. I realise this may be a bit emotional for some of you, but you really should stop trying to tell us what we can and cannot do - we are leaving.

The EU has already placed Tariffs on Chinese Steel, to try to deal with this issue, but you like a lot of the British electorate appear to fail to meet the comprehension level required to process the Brexit decision.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/18/uk-and-eu-urged-to-act-on-chinese-steel-dumping-after-us-hikes-duty-on-imports

J Mysterio

LiamoSail wrote: »

I wonder how Tata steel workers in Wales that voted leave feel. They've probably voted themselves out of a job

Wales is the hardest to understand. Theres nothing in the country now, half of it was mining - long gone - what are they actually going to do now?

Kat1170

LiamoSail wrote: »

Also, do those who were so vocal about the unelected European bureaucrats have an issue with the fact that the UK will be taken out of Europe by an unelected PM and the decision ratified by an unelected Queen?

I'd say almost every country is run by unelected bureaucrats aka civil servants

LiamoSail

K-9 wrote: »

Apparently Brexit will make Britain a manufacturing power again.

Germany is a manufacturing power because it suffered wage stagnation for years to compete with Eastern Europe rather than complain about the EU and immigration. That's what has to be done to make Britain competitive again but I don't think many who voted Brexit actually realise that.

I doubt many who voted Brexit have any idea at all of the extent of the reprecussions. The traditional mining towns thought Thatcher ****ed them, wait until they see what the Brexiters have done to them

Inquitus

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wales is the hardest to understand. Theres nothing in the country now, half of it was mining - long gone - what are they actually going to do now?

And mining and steel were destroyed by the Thatcher tories, absolutely fúck all to do with the EU!

Suryavarman

whatever_ wrote: »

Port Talbot will not be closed. The British manufacturing sector is still around the 10th biggest in the world and employs 2 million people. Yes we can stop China dumping steel in Britain when we are free from the EU, we will place tariffs on their steel if necessary.

We can trade with whoever we want. We are leaving - stop trying to tell us what we can and cannot do.

Nobody is saying that you can't trade with whoever you want. You're just refusing to acknowledge that in two years time you won't be able to trade as much as there will be far more tariffs in place on goods coming in and out of the UK and the UK will be worse off as a result.

LiamoSail

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wales is the hardest to understand. Theres nothing in the country now, half of it was mining - long gone - what are they actually going to do now?

Luckily trade between Ireland and Wales supports a huge amount of jobs around Angelsy. Oh wait..

Suryavarman

Inquitus wrote: »

And mining and steel were destroyed bu the Thatcher tories, absolutely fúck all to do with the EU!

The mining and steel industries in the UK were destroyed by their lack of competitiveness. Thatcher just stopped subsidising them to save the UK from economic destruction.

Nody

whatever_ wrote: »

Port Talbot will not be closed. The British manufacturing sector is still around the 10th biggest in the world and employs 2 million people. Yes we can stop China dumping steel in Britain when we are free from the EU, we will place tariffs on their steel if necessary.

Let me introduce you to the WTO who will disagree... Secondly do you seriously think China (one of the claimed huge markets UK will trade with) will let UK to add tariffs without them doing the same and then some as counter on a ton of other goods from UK? And unlike UK China will then dump a few billions more into their state industry to keep dumping the prices to make sure their industry survives..

BoJack Horseman

Inquitus wrote: »

And mining and steel were destroyed by the Thatcher tories, absolutely fúck all to do with the EU!

Wasn't it Wilson & Callaghan?

cml387

Most likely England (I use the word deliberately) will just become a home for hot money from the middle east and Russia, i.e. just an expansion of what is going on already.
The outlook for what manufacturing remains will be grim.

whatever_

Apparently Britai

K-9 wrote: »

LiamoSail wrote: »

I wonder how Tata steel workers in Wales that voted leave feel. They've probably voted themselves out of a job

Apparently Brexit will make Britain a manufacturing power again.

Germany is a manufacturing power because it suffered wage stagnation for years to compete with Eastern Europe rather than complain about the EU and immigration. That's what has to be done to make Britain competitive again but I don't think many who voted Brexit actually realise that.

Britain has (roughly) the 10th largest manufacturing sector in the World. It employs 2 million people. A lower pound will stimulate manufacturing exports. Britain like Germany is a country that is pro-immigration. Both the Leave Campaign (and more importantly) the Conservative Government are pro-immigration. Don't under-estimate the collective wisdom of the electorate - there is widespread support for the apprenticeships and jobs that would be created by a lower pound - particularly among the people who voted Leave.

cml387

Nody wrote: »

Let me introduce you to the WTO who will disagree... Secondly do you seriously think China (one of the claimed huge markets UK will trade with) will let UK to add tariffs without them doing the same and then some as counter on a ton of other goods from UK? And unlike UK China will then dump a few billions more into their state industry to keep dumping the prices to make sure their industry survives..

Already the Chinese are saying it will take the UK 400 civil servants and ten years to negotiate a trade deal.

Inquitus

Nody wrote: »

Let me introduce you to the WTO who will disagree... Secondly do you seriously think China (one of the claimed huge markets UK will trade with) will let UK to add tariffs without them doing the same and then some as counter on a ton of other goods from UK? And unlike UK China will then dump a few billions more into their state industry to keep dumping the prices to make sure their industry survives..

Agreed, anyone thinks the UK can negotiate a better trade agreement with China alone then they could within the EU is delusional at best.

Suryavarman

whatever_ wrote: »

Apparently Britai

Britain has (roughly) the 10th largest manufacturing sector in the World. It employs 2 million people. A lower pound will stimulate manufacturing exports. Britain like Germany is a country that is pro-immigration. Both the Leave Campaign (and more importantly) the Conservative Government are pro-immigration. Don't under-estimate the collective wisdom of the electorate - there is widespread support for the apprenticeships and jobs that would be created by a lower pound - particularly among the people who voted Leave.

A lower pound makes the purchase of raw materials needed for manufacturing more expensive.

You should have paid more attention to the Leave Campaign. One of their main arguments was that Brexit would allow the Government to reduce immigration.

K-9

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wales is the hardest to understand. Theres nothing in the country now, half of it was mining - long gone - what are they actually going to do now?

Was just saying that on the AH thread. What odds a Welsh independence vote in 10 years time?

whatever_

Inquitus wrote: »

whatever_ wrote: »

Port Talbot will not be closed. The British manufacturing sector is still around the 10th biggest in the world and employs 2 million people. Yes we can stop China dumping steel in Britain when we are free from the EU, we will place tariffs on their steel if necessary.

We can trade with whoever we want. I realise this may be a bit emotional for some of you, but you really should stop trying to tell us what we can and cannot do - we are leaving.

The EU has already placed Tariffs on Chinese Steel, to try to deal with this issue, but you like a lot of the British electorate appear to fail to meet the comprehension level required to process the Brexit decision.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/18/uk-and-eu-urged-to-act-on-chinese-steel-dumping-after-us-hikes-duty-on-imports

Read your article again, because you have misunderstood it. Obviously, the EU has tariffs on Chinese steel , because the EU does not have a trade agreement with China. These tariffs are very low. Unencumbered by the EU, Britain could raise those tariffs to whatever level it wants. Try to stay calm, we are leaving, but we can be polite to one another. Take a leaf out of the German playbook.

Inquitus

cml387 wrote: »

Already the Chinese are saying it will take the UK 400 civil servants and ten years to negotiate a trade deal.

China laughs at Britain's hope to negotiate quick free trade deal following Brexit

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/06/24/china_brexit_response.php

One estimate currently doing the rounds is that it will take 500 British officials and 10 years to negotiate a fresh trade deal with China.

http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2016-06/24/content_25841499.htm

Harry Palmr

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is that 30% of the youth or 30% of educated youth?

30% of all under 30s I think it was. How many of them are intelligent is not for me to estimate though though one could argue the number was defined between 7 am and 10 pm on Thursday.

On trade officials I was watching Newsnight during the campaign and this issue came up - how many senior civil servants are there who know how to do this sort of thing? Answer - about 20.

smjm

cml387 wrote: »

Already the Chinese are saying it will take the UK 400 civil servants and ten years to negotiate a trade deal.

So China aren't going to sell anything to the UK for 10 years?

LiamoSail

whatever_ wrote: »

Apparently Britai

Britain has (roughly) the 10th largest manufacturing sector in the World. It employs 2 million people. A lower pound will stimulate manufacturing exports. Britain like Germany is a country that is pro-immigration. Both the Leave Campaign (and more importantly) the Conservative Government are pro-immigration. Don't under-estimate the collective wisdom of the electorate - there is widespread support for the apprenticeships and jobs that would be created by a lower pound - particularly among the people who voted Leave.

The flaw there is the difficulties exporters will soon face trading in the EU.

cml387

smjm wrote: »

So China aren't going to sell anything to the UK for 10 years?

Oh I'm sure they'd be delighted to. Britain selling stuff to China is the problem.

Nody

smjm wrote: »

So China aren't going to sell anything to the UK for 10 years?

They will sell on standard WTO terms; what UK wants is to avoid the tariffs that come with that as UK represents a lot less for China than China would do for UK (esp. outside of EU's free market).

Inquitus

smjm wrote: »

So China aren't going to sell anything to the UK for 10 years?

No China and the UK will not have a formal Trade deal so Tariffs and the like will not be dictated by an agreement and can be implemented and changed at will, which provides no stability for firms who rely on exports either way, with is certainly sub-optimal, especially for the UK who are the minor party by some distance.

LiamoSail

Harry Palmr wrote: »

30% of all under 30s I think it was. How many of them are intelligent is not for me to estimate though though one could argue the number was defined between 7 am and 10 pm on Thursday.

I was referring to the educated rather than intelligent. My point is that they'll suffer through this decision that they didn't take.

K-9

Kat1170 wrote: »

I'd say almost every country is run by unelected bureaucrats aka civil servants

There's a classic Yes Minister episode about Europe and like most things with it it has never dated, barring flowery wallpaper and no Rover cars any more!

Britain joined Europe to disunite it if I paraphrase Sir Humphrey correctly.

swampgas

K-9 wrote: »

Was just saying that on the AH thread. What odds a Welsh independence vote in 10 years time?

It's a real possibility, even if an unlikely one. The referendum result has opened a Pandora's box. In Ireland we were worried about a hung Dáil causing problems for FDI and investors, consider how much larger the impact of the current political instability in the UK must be.

David Cameron must be in the horrors at how badly his referendum idea has backfired. He may yet be responsible for the end of the UK as we know it.

whatever_

Suryavarman wrote: »

whatever_ wrote: »

Apparently Britai

Britain has (roughly) the 10th largest manufacturing sector in the World. It employs 2 million people. A lower pound will stimulate manufacturing exports. Britain like Germany is a country that is pro-immigration. Both the Leave Campaign (and more importantly) the Conservative Government are pro-immigration. Don't under-estimate the collective wisdom of the electorate - there is widespread support for the apprenticeships and jobs that would be created by a lower pound - particularly among the people who voted Leave.

A lower pound makes the purchase of raw materials needed for manufacturing more expensive.

You should have paid more attention to the Leave Campaign. One of their main arguments was that Brexit would allow the Government to reduce immigration.

I didn't disagree with this. I said that both the Brexit campaign and the Conservative government are pro-Immigration. Which is of course, true.

cml387

swampgas wrote: »

It's a real possibility, even if an unlikely one. The referendum result has opened a Pandora's box. In Ireland we were worried about a hung Dáil causing problems for FDI and investors, consider how much larger the impact of the current political instability in the UK must be.

David Cameron must be in the horrors at how badly his referendum idea has backfired. He may yet be responsible for the end of the UK as we know it.

At least he won't have to make that phone call to the queen after Scotland leave. She won't be "purring" then.

Harry Palmr

K-9 wrote: »

There's a classic Yes Minister episode about Europe and like most things with it it has never dated, barring flowery wallpaper and no Rover cars any more!

Britain joined Europe to disunite it if I paraphrase Sir Humphrey correctly.

I've recently watched that again on Yesterday (oh the irony) it's so prescient about matters in the here and now it's scary. It really needs to be on the curriculum for every 15/16 year old.