Brexit Referendum Superthread

ancapailldorcha

my friend wrote: »

So all they have to do is the above and that makes them a great MEP?

Wow, your standards don't demand a whole lot then.

You mean professionalism? Never thought that would be much to ask. Apparently, it's grand not to do the job as long as the right people get insulted.

Its dead Jim

joseph brand wrote: »

I just found out that ALL my relatives living in England voted to leave. They're all Irish immigrants. My auntie and uncle still have their Irish passports (never bothered getting British ones).

My mother told me that when asked why they were voting to leave they just kept mentioning 'immigrants'. The hypocrisy of some people. The terms 'closing the door behind you', or, 'pulling up the ladder after you' spring to my mind.

That's it. They're cut. :mad:

You may get the last laugh. They have been backtracking on getting rid of freedom of movement.

my friend wrote: »

So all they have to do is the above and that makes them a great MEP?

Wow, your standards don't demand a whole lot then.

And Farage still fails to meet them.

CMOTDibbler

my friend wrote: »

So all they have to do is the above and that makes them a great MEP?

Wow, your standards don't demand a whole lot then.

He said 'not particularly good'. How did that morph into great?

Patser

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Tim Farron has pledged to ignore the result when campaigning for the next GE starts and keep the UK in the EU as the Leave campaign was based on lies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-result-lib-dems-remain-liberal-democrats-live-policy-stay-leave-a7103186.html

Tell you, that stance could work out well for them.

In all likelihood there'll be a General Election in the UK within a year. The Tories are pulling themselves apart at the moment, and have to chose a new PM in the process. Be it Boris or May there'll be a lot of questions about their legitimacy, and calls for an election.

Meanwhile Labour are equally at war within themselves. Corbyn has been divisive from even before he was made leader, and after his insipid efforts in the brexit campaign has lost even more support. But today he's insisted he won't go quietly, so there's a good chance of a civil war within that party too.

UKIP will reap the whirlwind they've sown. Right now for all Farage's smug gloating, the impossibility of living to the promises made, Farage's timing regards £350 million not being promised (and the No bullet fired quip) will backlash on them.

Meanwhile you've an untarnished Lib Dems, currently adrift and anonymous but less than 2 years out of power coming along to offer an alternative, and a possible (faint) chance of reversal of Brexit. In a years time, as the Banks in London really start upping sticks and moving out, as the reality starts to kick in, even that vague hope could springboard the Lib Dems massively.

olliesgirl55

Polo_Mint wrote: »

What are the chances of Marine Le Pen winning the French election do people think?

I think it all depends on what happens with the UK in the near future. Already HBSC bank is talking about moving 1,000 jobs to Paris and other companies might follow. France may be getting something good from all this mess and that would weaken Marine Le Pen's chances. Same goes if the EU cracks down on immigration from outside the EU. Everything is up in the air at the moment.

CMOTDibbler

olliesgirl55 wrote: »

I think it all depends on what happens with the UK in the near future. Already HBSC bank is talking about moving 1,000 jobs to Paris and other companies might follow. France may be getting something good from all this mess and that would weaken Marine Le Pen's chances. Same goes if the EU cracks down on immigration from outside the EU. Everything is up in the air at the moment.

Every company with a base in the UK have drawn up contingency plans for Brexit for months now.

These will all be dusted off now and they won't wait an interminable length of time before triggering them. There's nothing to be gained from waiting and evrything to lose.

Enzokk

cml387 wrote: »

I remember at one stage very early in the campaign, possibly even last year,that a "leave" vote would not be used as an actual decision to leave but a stick to wave during negotiations with Europe for more concessions.
Once the negotiations were completed another vote could be taken.

I know it sound ludicrous and was mocked at the time but I have idea that Boris himself floated the idea.

Nody wrote: »

The more I hear out of the politicians on leave the more I think this is the route they will go; go back to EU, try to get a better deal and then proclaim a new vote is required due to the new deal (as the vote was based on the old deal).

swampgas wrote: »

Interesting - and insane. The last thing the EU needs is a succession of members holding exit referendums as levers to get special treatment.

I suspect that the UK is very close to having burned its bridges with the EU, if it hasn't done so already. There's only so much of this bull**** that the rest of the EU will tolerate.

This strategy is all good, unless you look at the uncertainty this vote has caused on the markets. Now the UK market may not have been the biggest loser on Friday, but a lot of EU nations lost a lot of value on their stock markets due to the result. I would hope that these nations grow a backbone and hold the UK to the result, they have made their bed and have to lie in it now. If the UK doesn't want to leave they will have to accept the EU as it is, no more special deals.

Economists have been saying for years that for the euro to succeed there needs to be more integration of of countries that use the euro. The UK has been in the background all the time threatening their veto with votes and just causing a general nuisance to these plans as it would mean more integration which they do not want. The fact that it concerns the euro and not the GBP is neither here nor there, but they have always wanted their "freedom". With the withdrawal of the UK it may just open the path to more integration to give the euro the chance to succeed.

What I do find amazing is how MEPs from the UK were so in favour of leaving the EU. They are celebrating the fact that they are going to be unemployed. They must have some recourse to future work or they are all so well off they aren't worried about their future livelihoods.

Or how about the UKIP MEP that tweeted the fall in the sterling wasn't his problem as he was paid in euros and the fall in value had no worry for him. This is the party that is not the establishment? The crazy thing is UKIP may just be the second party if Labour doesn't sort itself out and the Tories refuse to give the people what they voted for.

Francie Barrett

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

He doesn't though. He's not an MP and was rejected last year. He has no mandate whatsoever to be there. Douglas Carswell? Perhaps. Nigel certainly does not. He's an MEP and not a particularly good one at that.

If there is one person who managed to push for an EU referendum, then it's Nigel Farage. He managed to take an issue that was on the fringes of the Conservative party to the national stage, and then subsequently managed to have it endorsed by the electorate. To say that a Johnny come lately like Boris, or a non-entity like Michael Gove have a greater right to be at the table than Farage is just an insult.

By the way. This is not an endorsement of Farage. I think he should absolutely be at the table to sort out the mess that he, more than anyone else helped to create.

Patser

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Every company with a base in the UK have drawn up contingency plans for Brexit for months now.

These will all be dusted off now and they won't wait an interminable length of time before triggering them. There's nothing to be gained from waiting and evrything to lose.

I don't know if anyone really expected it though. Even the UK Govt admitted as late as May they'd no contingency plans (see link below). No wonder they've no idea what to do now. No preperation time and now the EU chiefs saying Go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628897

Francie Barrett

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Tim Farron has pledged to ignore the result when campaigning for the next GE starts and keep the UK in the EU as the Leave campaign was based on lies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-result-lib-dems-remain-liberal-democrats-live-policy-stay-leave-a7103186.html

Bolted, horse, stable door.

There is no going back from here. All we can do is best pick up the pieces. To pretend like the vote never happened is ridiculous.

CMOTDibbler

Patser wrote: »

I don't know if anyone really expected it though. Even the UK Govt admitted as late as May they'd no contingency plans (see link below). No wonder they've no idea what to do now. No preperation time and now the EU chiefs saying Go.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628897

I know of two Irish and one British company that definitely have these plans drawn up. Very extensive and detailed plans. The British company has been sourcing warehouses here in order to move the bulk of their business quickly.

One of the Irish companies really surprised me. I would never have thought they would pull out of Britain.

olliesgirl55

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Every company with a base in the UK have drawn up contingency plans for Brexit for months now.

These will all be dusted off now and they won't wait an interminable length of time before triggering them. There's nothing to be gained from waiting and evrything to lose.

That would lead to the UK being royally screwed. I hope some of those companies decide to move to Ireland and bring some jobs here:)

CMOTDibbler

olliesgirl55 wrote: »

That would lead to the UK being royally screwed. I hope some of those companies decide to move to Ireland and bring some jobs here:)

It's even the smaller distribution type companies that sell online etc. The paperwork and costs to sell online from outside the EU is just not worth considering in low margin operations. Never mind the possible drop in volumes.

Patser

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Bolted, horse, stable door.

There is no going back from here. All we can do is best pick up the pieces. To pretend like the vote never happened is ridiculous.

In all probability you're right. The Lib Dems might get some creedo in the sense of We're the least to blame, but regardless of that I can't see the EU being willing to welcome a petulant UK back in.

And there's the small matter of $2 Trillion wiped out, bit hard to say 'My bad, whoops' to that.

my friend

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He said 'not particularly good'. How did that morph into great?

When you've figured out how to follow a thread get back to me.

CMOTDibbler

my friend wrote: »

When you've figured out how to follow a thread get back to me.

Nah, I'm good. Don't worry your pretty little head about me.

swampgas

Patser wrote: »

Tell you, that stance could work out well for them.

In all likelihood there'll be a General Election in the UK within a year. The Tories are pulling themselves apart at the moment, and have to chose a new PM in the process. Be it Boris or May there'll be a lot of questions about their legitimacy, and calls for an election.

Meanwhile Labour are equally at war within themselves. Corbyn has been divisive from even before he was made leader, and after his insipid efforts in the brexit campaign has lost even more support. But today he's insisted he won't go quietly, so there's a good chance of a civil war within that party too.

UKIP will reap the whirlwind they've sown. Right now for all Farage's smug gloating, the impossibility of living to the promises made, Farage's timing regards £350 million not being promised (and the No bullet fired quip) will backlash on them.

Meanwhile you've an untarnished Lib Dems, currently adrift and anonymous but less than 2 years out of power coming along to offer an alternative, and a possible (faint) chance of reversal of Brexit. In a years time, as the Banks in London really start upping sticks and moving out, as the reality starts to kick in, even that vague hope could springboard the Lib Dems massively.

Interesting ... but even if that were to happen, the rest of the EU might simply refuse to play ball. I can't imagine the EU will give the UK the time for the scenario you describe to play out. They seem to want a quick exit for the UK, and to hell with the consequences if the UK isn't ready.

my friend

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Nah, I'm good. Don't worry your pretty little head about me.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100158985&postcount=2458

Egg on your face? Here, take a Kleenex

CMOTDibbler

swampgas wrote: »

Interesting ... but even if that were to happen, the rest of the EU might simply refuse to play ball. I can't imagine the EU will give the UK the time for the scenario you describe to play out. They seem to want a quick exit for the UK, and to hell with the consequences if the UK isn't ready.

It's in nobody's interest for a long drawn out process. We all (probably) wish it were different but you can't have a protracted period of stagnation while everybody waits for the other shoe to drop.

If Britain get cold feet, they need to say so soon or not at all.

Patser

swampgas wrote: »

Interesting ... but even if that were to happen, the rest of the EU might simply refuse to play ball. I can't imagine the EU will give the UK the time for the scenario you describe to play out. They seem to want a quick exit for the UK, and to hell with the consequences if the UK isn't ready.

Yep. It is incredibly unlikely. For it to have any chance it would have to happen very quickly (within the year, while Brexit negotiations are still far from finalised). But a situation whereby the Lib Dems sweep gloriously to power and humbly request the EU welcome them back, with minimal public backlash at home is very far fetched...

That said a year ago I'd have said Brexit was incredibly unlikely and right now the UK is entering such a period of instability that all sorts of unusual twists could happen.

swampgas

Patser wrote: »

Yep. It is incredibly unlikely. For it to have any chance it would have to happen very quickly (within the year, while Brexit negotiations are still far from finalised). But a situation whereby the Lib Dems sweep gloriously to power and humbly request the EU welcome them back, with minimal public backlash at home is very far fetched...

That said a year ago I'd have said Brexit was incredibly unlikely and right now the UK is entering such a period of instability that all sorts of unusual twists could happen.

The other factor against it is the media - if they're still championing Brexit (and from what I can see, they are) then I can't see how any government would be able to swing the country back around to a positive attitude to the EU.

The horse hasn't just bolted, the stable has burned down.

Enzokk

It will be interesting to see what happens to Labour in the UK, especially Jeremy Corbyn. He never seemed to be in favour of a Remain Vote, even if his party was. You have to wonder if those that voted for him will hold him partly responsible for this result and if he would still win a Labour leadership election. Kudos to him for sticking to his principles, even if he never/was never allowed to properly air what they were.

BoJack Horseman

Enzokk wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens to Labour in the UK, especially Jeremy Corbyn. He never seemed to be in favour of a Remain Vote, even if his party was. You have to wonder if those that voted for him will hold him partly responsible for this result and if he would still win a Labour leadership election. Kudos to him for sticking to his principles, even if he never/was never allowed to properly air what they were.

What principles did he stick to?

His long held desire to be out of the EU, or him doing a bad attempt at pretending that wasn't his opinion?

Polo_Mint

swampgas wrote: »

The other factor against it is the media - if they're still championing Brexit

Really? I was thinking the exact opposite.

To me the UK media have been in a sombre mood.

All the interviews ive seen on tv have the media calling out the leave campaigners on bullshit

Asking the remain campaign why they didnt try harder and remorse to EU officials

swampgas

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Really? I was thinking the exact opposite.

To me the UK media have been in a sombre mood.

All the interviews ive seen on tv have the media calling out the leave campaigners on bullshit

Asking the remain campaign why they didnt try harder and remorse to EU officials

I was thinking newspapers, haven't checked TV. Glad to hear it though.

Enzokk

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What principles did he stick to?

His long held desire to be out of the EU, or him doing a bad attempt at pretending that wasn't his opinion?

Let me say he is sticking to his principles now. He is not cowering behind delays and he is talking about leaving the EU as soon as possible. Funnily enough the only other person to do that is Nigel Farage, so that may just show his contempt for the EU. His reasons for not liking the EU is different than Farage, but the outcome is the same.

I would have preferred if he actually stood back and said his views is not the same as the parties view and he will take a back seat until after the referendum. That way a better effort from the Labour party could have been made. Seeing as he got what he probably wanted he will not complain. I would point out the last leader to play politics with the EU from the UK is now probably going down in history as the leader who took the UK out of the EU and started the break up of the Union. The remain supporters are angry, and if many of them are Labour supporters that voted for him I see bad times ahead.

But again, he is the only high profile politician not delaying for time and wanting the process to start as soon as possible.

Enzokk

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Really? I was thinking the exact opposite.

To me the UK media have been in a sombre mood.

All the interviews ive seen on tv have the media calling out the leave campaigners on bullshit

Asking the remain campaign why they didnt try harder and remorse to EU officials

Seems like there has been a change in attitude from the TV media and they are outright hostile to the leave campaigners. Too bad they didn't do their jobs a week earlier and instead was looking for "balanced reporting", instead of calling people out on what they knew were lies. They allowed the leave campaign to keep spouting their lies about immigration or more money for the NHS.

Polo_Mint

Enzokk wrote: »

Seems like there has been a change in attitude from the TV media and they are outright hostile to the leave campaigners. Too bad they didn't do their jobs a week earlier and instead was looking for "balanced reporting", instead of calling people out on what they knew were lies. They allowed the leave campaign to keep spouting their lies about immigration or more money for the NHS.

The BBC and even Sky News have been tearing into the leave campaigners.

Inviting them on to make fools out of them which is not a bad thing.

Then they interview EU officials pretty much asking them what the UK should do next

sink

Enzokk wrote: »

Seems like there has been a change in attitude from the TV media and they are outright hostile to the leave campaigners. Too bad they didn't do their jobs a week earlier and instead was looking for "balanced reporting", instead of calling people out on what they knew were lies. They allowed the leave campaign to keep spouting their lies about immigration or more money for the NHS.

They were under a legal obligation to be balanced (BBC and CH4 anyway not sure about the others), they could not be more hostile to one side than the other.

Enzokk

sink wrote: »

They were under a legal obligation to be balanced (BBC and CH4 anyway not sure about the others), they could not be more hostile to one side than the other.

I know, yet they would have an unbalanced panel on Question Time favouring leave. Sometimes it would be 5 for leaving and one to remain. Just seems silly that you cannot call someone out on stupidity if you cannot call the other person stupid as well.