Brexit Referendum Superthread

Suryavarman

whatever_ wrote: »

Name one politician in the current Conservative Government who wants to stop immigration into the UK ? No ? An easier question then: name one Conservative MP who wants to stop immigration into the UK. No, you can't, can you, because there aren't any.

If that's your basis for what counts as being pro or anti immigration then reasoned debate is impossible.

Suryavarman

whatever_ wrote: »

It is the people who called this election (some of us have been demanding it for decades) not David Cameron. He was a good PM and was well regarded by most. We don't need to dance to the EUs tune anymore. Everybody needs to calm down now really and take stock.

He's probably earned his place as one of the UK's worst prime ministers. His high risk political play will probably lead to the break up of the UK and years of economic underperformance.

ancapailldorcha

Suryavarman wrote: »

He's probably earned his place as one of the UK's worst prime ministers. His high risk political play will probably lead to the break up of the UK and years of economic underperformance.

As Tories go, I found him quite likeable. He was a good statesman and a diplomat. His problem was that he spent the last decade dealing himself a very poor hand for the poker game that is the last year.

Suryavarman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

As Tories go, I found him quite likeable. He was a good statesman and a diplomat. His problem was that he spent the last decade dealing himself a very poor hand for the poker game that is the last year.

Agreed. All his good features will be forgotten about by history though. He has played with fire and come out with third degree burns.

ancapailldorcha

Suryavarman wrote: »

Agreed. All his good features will be forgotten about by history though. He has played with fire and come out with third degree burns.

Indeed. A shame, especially given the potential candidates for PM to be chosen from. I think he always saw the EU as a good thing, both in terms of economic growth and scapegoating. In fairness, UKIP has been around since 1991 so I can understand why he never considered Farage much of a threat.

CMOTDibbler

https://twitter.com/Shandypockets/status/746441650830872576

Patser

I'm not understanding the specifics here, but Sturgeon is suggesting the Scottish Parliament could veto Brexit

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

I wouldn't be surprised given the carnage going on in Labour and the Tories over this, that they'd be delighted if someone else found a loophole to cancel Brexit, and take all the flak.

Suryavarman

Nicola Sturgeon has come out saying that Scotland could block Britain leaving the EU:

SNP leader Ms Sturgeon said that "of course" she would ask MSPs to refuse to give their "legislative consent".

She added: "If the Scottish Parliament was judging this on the basis of what's right for Scotland then the option of saying look we're not to vote for something that's against Scotland's interest, of course that's got to be on the table."

A Dub in Glasgo

Have a look at the document I linked to earlier http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100160915&postcount=2531

pablomakaveli

I wonder would Sturgeon see it in her best interests to do that. Stopping the UK from leaving would more likely result in Scotland stay in the UK. Letting it continue is more likely to lead to Scottish independence.

Patser

Oohhh!

Labour leadership heave getting very serious! Resignations everywhere but this could be explosive.

Emails leaked to the BBC suggesting that Corbyn deliberately crippled his party's remain campaign. Watered down their points, undermined their efforts. This'll tear Labour apart.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633238

Bob24

Patser wrote: »

Oohhh!

Labour leadership heave getting very serious! Resignations everywhere but this could be explosive.

Emails leaked to the BBC suggesting that Corbyn deliberately crippled his party's remain campaign. Watered down their points, undermined their efforts. This'll tear Labour apart.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633238

I am not sure Corbyn thicked "remain" in the privacy of the voting booth.

I think what is happening might be what he always wanted: get rid of the people he thinks are too liberal. But the question is can he survive the crisis.

Patser

Scottish MP Adam Tomkins saying Scotland can't legally block Brexit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/747021052564344832

long range shooter

embraer170 wrote: »

That's all nice but how does it change the fact that part of the UK Leave campaign used the Norway model as an example of a way forward. That model would leave the UK paying as much as now to the EU, the continued arrival of the bad bad immigrants, and all this without any formal say into decision making and rule making that ends up affecting the UK.

Thats probably why the Uk went out of EU,and wants to renegotiate a new agreement,similar to Norway,but with better terms.
Switzerland also have a similar agreement,but different terms.
And UK is not part of schengen,like Norway is,i think they are more exposed to bad immigrants,but atleast they have a saying in it,with their own laws.

CMOTDibbler

long range shooter wrote: »

Thats probably why the Uk went out of EU,and wants to renegotiate a new agreement,similar to Norway,but with better terms.
Switzerland also have a similar agreement,but different terms.
And UK is not part of schengen,like Norway is,i think they are more exposed to bad immigrants,but atleast they have a saying in it,with their own laws.

That's why they wanted out alright.

Except they have always had control of who immigrates from outside the EU. Any trade agreement they make with the EU will involve the movement of labour as well. So they will have changed nothing.

long range shooter

embraer170 wrote: »

Norway's statistics office does not agree with you.

Polish in Norway in 2016:


Polish in Norway in 2015:


For more data: https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/statistikker/innvbef/aar/2016-03-03

Meanwhile the overall percentage of EU/EEA immigrants in Norway as a % of the total population increased from 6.6% to 6.9%.

According to SSB the number is 97500 Poles in Norway.In Ireland its 122000

https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/statistikker/innvbef/aar/2016-03-03

long range shooter

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

That's why they wanted out alright.

Except they have always had control of who immigrates from outside the EU. Any trade agreement they make with the EU will involve the movement of labour as well. So they will have changed nothing.

Control?you mean Brussels divided the refugees between countries

CMOTDibbler

long range shooter wrote: »

Control?you mean Brussels divided the refugees between countries

Not all immigrants are refugees.

long range shooter

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not all immigrants are refugees.

Not all asylumseekers are refugees either

CMOTDibbler

long range shooter wrote: »

Not all asylumseekers are refugees either

I wasn't being glib. The UK has historically had immigration from all parts of their former empire. Their policies allowed for it and had nothing to do with the EU. Those policies haven't changed.

long range shooter

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I wasn't being glib. The UK has historically had immigration from all parts of their former empire. Their policies allowed for it and had nothing to do with the EU. Those policies haven't changed.

True,but since the refugee crisis came over Europe,EU havent made the situation any better.

CMOTDibbler

long range shooter wrote: »

True,but since the refugee crisis came over Europe,EU havent made the situation any better.

That's a question I struggle to answer. As I suspect anyone would. There are no easy answers to the misery that is the Syrian refugee crisis.

long range shooter

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

That's a question I struggle to answer. As I suspect anyone would. There are no easy answers to the misery that is the Syrian refugee crisis.

If Merkel didnt open the borders to Europe and let anyone in without any control whatsoever,we wouldnt have a crisis.
The problem now is that half of North Africa is taken advantage of that situation.

CMOTDibbler

long range shooter wrote: »

If Merkel didnt open the borders to Europe and let anyone in without any control whatsoever,we wouldnt have a crisis.
The problem now is that half of North Africa is taken advantage of that situation.

Half of North Africa is drowning in the Mediterranean Sea.

long range shooter

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Half of North Africa is drowning in the Mediterranean Sea.

And who is to blame for that?

Suryavarman

long range shooter wrote: »

And who is to blame for that?

The Western countries that participated in the invasion of Iraq, precipitating the rise of ISIS.

long range shooter

Suryavarman wrote: »

The Western countries that participated in the invasion of Iraq, precipitating the rise of ISIS.

Its war in Iraq?i thought that was finished years ago?
Howcome refugees come from a country where its no war?
They are classed as asylumseekers then.
And Merkel shouldnt invite anyone but refugees to Europe,or else you wouldnt have a crisis.
Thats just an excuse to get to Europe.
And people wouldnt have drowned for no reason to get here.

Inquitus

long range shooter wrote: »

Its war in Iraq?i thought that was finished years ago?
Howcome refugees come from a country where its no war?
They are classed as asylumseekers then.
And Merkel shouldnt invite anyone but refugees to Europe,or else you wouldnt have a crisis.
Thats just an excuse to get to Europe.
And people wouldnt have drowned for no reason to get here.

These were people who were happy enough living under their previous regimes, who have now had their homes taken over by ISIS and all that goes with it and as such have no option but flee or die.

This whole migrant crisis is absolutely the consequence of the West's, led by the US, utterly failed foreign policy in the middle east over the last 2 decades.

Suryavarman

long range shooter wrote: »

Its war in Iraq?i thought that was finished years ago?
Howcome refugees come from a country where its no war?
They are classed as asylumseekers then.
And Merkel shouldnt invite anyone but refugees to Europe,or else you wouldnt have a crisis.
Thats just an excuse to get to Europe.
And people wouldnt have drowned for no reason to get here.

You need to brush up on your knowledge of the Middle East. There is a war being waged against ISIS in both Iraq and Syria. This war has come at immense human cost with millions of people displaced. Entire villages and towns have been destroyed.

That you think people are risking their lives for "no reason" is stunning.

I'm pretty sure this discussion is off topic so I won't be wasting my time replying to you again.

Bit cynical

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Labour need to sort themselves out as either Remain or Leave.

Isn't it is a bit late for that?