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2016 General Election Waterford

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    #512
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    AdMMM wrote: »
    Ummm, you were talking about investments in Waterford and I bring up FDI. The 'I' stands for "investment" there, so I don't know how you could possibly think my response was unrelated?? As for local businesses expanding, that's the end-result of an investment by the business. I'm sorry that this harsh truth doesn't fit your "Paudie is king" narrative.[/quote

    it's unrelated because we were talking about govt investment, not FDI or small businesses.there was even a list of the investments we were debating posted, non of them FDI or small business so to break this down, when we are talking about specifically ABC and you start going on about XYZ, that's pretty much the definition of unrelated to that particular debate.


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    #513
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Waterford does not government bobble-heads, we need people who will fight for this semmingly forgotten city
    .
    easy to be " seen" to be fighting when you're not In Gov, taking the hard decisions. We now have engineered and electorate that has elected TDs, where none of them want to be in Government, great work, electorate


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    #514
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,389 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    BoatMad wrote: »
    .
    easy to be " seen" to be fighting when you're not In Gov, taking the hard decisions. We now have engineered and electorate that has elected TDs, where none of them want to be in Government, great work, electorate

    i wouldnt blame the electorate at all. theres something fundamentally going wrong with our democratic systems globally, and i blame it on our neoliberal systems.


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    #515
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i wouldnt blame the electorate at all. theres something fundamentally going wrong with our democratic systems globally, and i blame it on our neoliberal systems.

    Neoliberalism is a much bandied around term.

    whats wrong is the PR-STV system, a system that is engineered to create chaos as it directly encourages parish pump populism. Its only that the civil war, effectively created voting blocks that overrode PR_STV and delivered large tribal voting, did the system "seem" to work

    Now that the tribal voting is less pronounced, we are seeing the the chaos that the PR_STV system generates

    in my view , coalitions should be formed before an election and the electorate presented with specific choices of Government, you keep repolling until one of the choices is elected

    GEs are about electing a Gov.but not in ireland


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    #516
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i wouldnt blame the electorate at all. theres something fundamentally going wrong with our democratic systems globally, and i blame it on our neoliberal systems.

    Disagree,IMO fundamentally the system is the best option,the people voting and those who are corrupt or incompetent in power are blame.the people are to blame because they vote for short term benefit and frankly most of the people don't know enough or are not knowledgeable about the way it works.


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    #517
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,389 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Neoliberalism is a much bandied around term.

    whats wrong is the PR-STV system, a system that is engineered to create chaos as it directly encourages parish pump populism. Its only that the civil war, effectively created voting blocks that overrode PR_STV and delivered large tribal voting, did the system "seem" to work

    Now that the tribal voting is less pronounced, we are seeing the the chaos that the PR_STV system generates

    in my view , coalitions should be formed before an election and the electorate presented with specific choices of Government, you keep repolling until one of the choices is elected

    GEs are about electing a Gov.but not in ireland

    i will agree that there is something wrong with the pr-stv system. im not a fan of it myself and this does also need to change. parish pump politics is driving me nuts. we have to move on from it or we wont move forward but i do think ireland has to go through this painful process in order to move forward. im just hoping that true change happens during this process. something has to change as i feel we re going around in circles.

    interesting idea though about pre-election coalitions. i ll have to think about it for a while but i think its wrong to blame the electorate.

    Neoliberalism is a disturbing system though.


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    #518
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,389 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Disagree,IMO fundamentally the system is the best option,the people voting and those who are corrupt or incompetent in power are blame.the people are to blame because they vote for short term benefit and frankly most of the people don't know enough or are not knowledgeable about the way it works.

    im not sure what system your on about but i think neoliberalism is exactly that, a system about short term financial gains and to hell with people and the environment in the long term. its not working for anybody. theres something fundamentally wrong with neoclassical theory as well.


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    #519
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    interesting idea though about pre-election coalitions. i ll have to think about it for a while but i think its wrong to blame the electorate.

    The electorate is effectively the shareholders that elected the board of Directors, The shareholders carry blame if they elected people, they feel they need to throw out at the next opportunity.

    The fact is the electorate have become completely disconnected from the tax take and the provision of public services, they now want simultaneously less of the former and more of the latter, and are repeatedly throwing out Governments that cannot live up to this utterly impossible deliverable.

    Thats the fault of an immature electorate , who see TDs as people that are there to " get them things " and not Govern the country


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    #520
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im not sure what system your on about but i think neoliberalism is exactly that, a system about short term financial gains and to hell with people and the environment in the long term. its not working for anybody. theres something fundamentally wrong with neoclassical theory as well.

    I was just going on about democratic systems in general, ours,UK whatever.still think the people are largely to blame, they are the ones bought off by promises of a few quid in their pocket to the detriment of other things.


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    #521
    The Bowling Alley
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭The Bowling Alley


    By the way, would anyone be surprised if Mary Butler tries to slide her son in as her replacement on the council?


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    #522
    AdMMM
    Registered Users Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭AdMMM


    The Bowling Alley wrote: »
    By the way, would anyone be surprised if Mary Butler tries to slide her son in as her replacement on the council?
    I think I read in one of the local papers that it was her sister that was going to get the nod? Fianna Fail really do love their dynasties...


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    #523
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    AdMMM wrote: »
    I think I read in one of the local papers that it was her sister that was going to get the nod? Fianna Fail really do love their dynasties...

    its actually called nepotism , akin to cronyism


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    #524
    The Bowling Alley
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭The Bowling Alley


    She's hired the daughter of a former FF TD as her PA. An ex-banker also. If anyone was in any doubt about this woman just being a puppet they just have to look at this appointment. Mary is being told what to say, and when and how to say it. How that's going to be good for Waterford is beyond me.


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    #525
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    The Bowling Alley wrote: »
    She's hired the daughter of a former FF TD as her PA. An ex-banker also. If anyone was in any doubt about this woman just being a puppet they just have to look at this appointment. Mary is being told what to say, and when and how to say it. How that's going to be good for Waterford is beyond me.

    when this happen?? have you a link???


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    #526
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    AdMMM wrote: »
    I think I read in one of the local papers that it was her sister that was going to get the nod? Fianna Fail really do love their dynasties...

    I was reading this briefly at work today and I'm almost sure her son and both her sisters are looking to replace her seat on the council.

    Unbelievable stuff. We have a good laugh at the Healy Raes up in Kerry and the same thing is going on here in Waterford with a newly elected member of the party who claims to have learned their lessons from the past and are attempting to rebuild the trust they lost only a few years back.

    It would sicken you really.


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    #527
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    I'm glad deasy pulled out of cc job race, he either pulls up his socks and gets something done for us or we get a chance to kick him out in next couple years


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    #528
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Max Powers wrote: »
    I'm glad deasy pulled out of cc job race, he either pulls up his socks and gets something done for us or we get a chance to kick him out in next couple years

    Deasy is probably one of the best representatives this constituency has ever had.

    Max Powers, if that is your real name, you're beginning to sound like your alias Homer more and more.


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    #529
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Deasy is probably one of the best representatives this constituency has ever had.

    Max Powers, if that is your real name, you're beginning to sound like your alias Homer more and more.

    My real name is Trent steel..
    Best representatives how? He is a political pariah whom nobody Will do business with.granted, he's good if you like a bit of a maverick who will not play the game, is that what you really want.but he has brought f_all to Waterford.


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    #530
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,389 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    jasus, even electing a cc isnt easy during this dail. count number 5!


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    #531
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    One would expect a minister position with him for pulling out. Somebody has had a word with him.


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    #532
    AdMMM
    Registered Users Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭AdMMM


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    One would expect a minister position with him for pulling out. Somebody has had a word with him.
    FG was even privately encouraging its TDs to give preferences to FF so he obviously withdrew for that reason given he didn't want to be on a loser.

    This was all very choreographed and it's such a shame that on Day 1 we have a decision that will affect how the Dail business is conducted over possibly the next five years being based not on who would offer the most impartiality but instead based on how it would affect a party's power in the chamber.

    Day one and it's party first, country second.

    Nothing changes.


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    #533
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    One would expect a minister position with him for pulling out. Somebody has had a word with him.

    Are you serious.....Don't get me wrong,I would love to see a Waterford minister but John halligan has a better chance of been voted in taoiseach than deasy been near a minister.


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    #534
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,172 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    The Bowling Alley wrote: »
    She's hired the daughter of a former FF TD as her PA. An ex-banker also. If anyone was in any doubt about this woman just being a puppet they just have to look at this appointment. Mary is being told what to say, and when and how to say it. How that's going to be good for Waterford is beyond me.

    When Halligan was elected 5 years ago he hired his daughter, who gave up her job in TSB to go work for him. How is that any different?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #535
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Are you serious.....Don't get me wrong,I would love to see a Waterford minister but John halligan has a better chance of been voted in taoiseach than deasy been near a minister.

    Yes, we are most likely going to have FG in Gov with support from FF/IND on certain issues that will mean 30 out of 50 positions as ministers.

    He was tipped to win any vote, I don't for a second believe he dropped out because he would lose.


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    #536
    The Bowling Alley
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭The Bowling Alley


    StringerBell wrote: »
    When Halligan was elected 5 years ago he hired his daughter, who gave up her job in TSB to go work for him. How is that any different?

    It's not a bit different. What's your point?


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    #537
    conditioned games
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    Max Powers wrote: »
    I'm glad deasy pulled out of cc job race, he either pulls up his socks and gets something done for us or we get a chance to kick him out in next couple years

    John Deasy will never do anything for Waterford. He has been there along time now and is every bit as lazy and narky since first taking over from his father Austin. There's a stubborn vote for him in Waterford due to his father been a good minister unlike that useless lazy son John.


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    #538
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,172 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    The Bowling Alley wrote: »
    It's not a bit different. What's your point?

    I don't have much interest spoon feeding it to you tbh, pretty simple.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #539
    The Bowling Alley
    Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭The Bowling Alley


    Your efforts at patronisation aside, I think you're missing the point. Halligan is at a lot of things that the public seem to be happy enough to look away from. They destroyed Coffey when he hired Hilary Quinlan to be his driver...there's not much of a difference here.

    My point is that Butler knew very little about this woman before she was hired. The decision was made for her, which is a signpost towards how her Dail tenure is going to pan out.


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    #540
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Yes, we are most likely going to have FG in Gov with support from FF/IND on certain issues that will mean 30 out of 50 positions as ministers.

    He was tipped to win any vote, I don't for a second believe he dropped out because he would lose.

    He dropped out because he exactly knew he would lose, he has no friends in his party up there so they hardly gonna vote for him, its crazy to suggest he did some sort of deal which well result in him being a minister.


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    #541
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    The Bowling Alley wrote: »
    Your efforts at patronisation aside, I think you're missing the point. Halligan is at a lot of things that the public seem to be happy enough to look away from. They destroyed Coffey when he hired Hilary Quinlan to be his driver...there's not much of a difference here.

    My point is that Butler knew very little about this woman before she was hired. The decision was made for her, which is a signpost towards how her Dail tenure is going to pan out.

    What did Halligan employ his relatives to do and were they involved in any government agencies before he employed them?


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