2016 General Election Waterford

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Why would this be case? The M9 would have to be the main feeder for the bridge. From what I can see this assertion seems to be a mere perception. I find it hard to accept considering the that the traffic modelling would presumably use the data that show this.

If it was a direct run from the motor way onto the M9 people would have to choose to come off the motorway to travel through town- or stay on the direct route across the bridge , and onto the ORR .

You don't have a choice you have to come off the m9 , yield twice and then re join the n25.

The bridge should have been a direct run without roundabouts from the m9

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

If it was a direct run from the motor way onto the M9 people would have to choose to come off the motorway to travel through town- or stay on the direct route across the bridge , and onto the ORR .

You don't have a choice you have to come off the m9 , yield twice and then re join the n25.

The bridge should have been a direct run without roundabouts from the m9

I think perhaps you are looking at this from your own perspective with regard to its use. I can't see a scenario whereby the M9 going directly across the Suir would enable connectivity to the area which ultimately determines numbers. You would still have to provide the interchanges for the N25 and N24 to access the bridge. And I am not convinced the roundabout and Interchange provide a sufficent obstacle especially as the road that it would be presumably feeding i.e. the ORR has plenty of roundabouts on it.

But there are several problems here. The first is that the project was approved years before the motorway was. They were independent projects. The motorway was in the development phase years later due to the fact that there was a new government who suddenly decided to invest in motorway infrastructure. There was several more years of doubt due to political resistance to the project .So the idea that this was feasable in the first place I would suggest is incorrect. Then the ORR had to be also a certainty which it certainly wasn't. If cost was not a factor there would be a free flow interchange near Redbridge however and no toll allong with grade seperation on the ORR. But this was only acheived on the M50 after huge upgrade projects the final one being Newlands cross flyover.

But the initial assertion that it was a waste is ill conceived. This suggests it should not have been built. The real problem here is the toll which Garrett Fitzgerald correctly predicted would be a mistake due to the number of roads available to make rat runs to avoid them. Again a problem not specific to Waterford. And lets not forget the toll was an "add on" by Charlie McCreevey due to the economic downturn in 2001.

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I think perhaps you are looking at this from your own perspective with regard to its use. I can't see a scenario whereby the M9 going directly across the Suir would enable connectivity to the area which ultimately determines numbers. You would still have to provide the interchanges for the N25 and N24 to access the bridge. And I am not convinced the roundabout and Interchange provide a sufficent obstacle especially as the road that it would be presumably feeding i.e. the ORR has plenty of roundabouts on it.

But there are several problems here. The first is that the project was approved years before the motorway was. They were independent projects. The motorway was in the development phase years later due to the fact that there was a new government who suddenly decided to invest in motorway infrastructure. There was several more years of doubt due to political resistance to the project .So the idea that this was feasable in the first place I would suggest is incorrect. Then the ORR had to be also a certainty which it certainly wasn't. If cost was not a factor there would be a free flow interchange near Redbridge however and no toll allong with grade seperation on the ORR. But this was only acheived on the M50 after huge upgrade projects the final one being Newlands cross flyover.

But the initial assertion that it was a waste is ill conceived. This suggests it should not have been built. The real problem here is the toll which Garrett Fitzgerald correctly predicted would be a mistake due to the number of roads available to make rat runs to avoid them. Again a problem not specific to Waterford. And lets not forget the toll was an "add on" by Charlie McCreevey due to the economic downturn in 2001.

yes I am looking at it for my own perspective, as I never take the N25, it seems to be very unused , perhaps when the bypass of newross happens there will be a direct run through on the new bridge at red rocks?

I believe the way the bridge is configured means it is of little use to me or those who live on the other side of town.

fuzzy dunlop

Early days for Mary Butler but I find this article a bit depressing. We may have elected another John Deasy to the Dail who is completely unaware that Waterford and its imediate surroundings are the most important part of the county politically not to mention regionally.


http://www.munster-express.ie/business/mary-butler-pledges-to-champion-rural-economy/

Wanderer78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Early days for Mary Butler but I find this article a bit depressing. We may have elected another John Deasy to the Dail who is completely unaware that Waterford and its imediate surroundings are the most important part of the county politically not to mention regionally.


http://www.munster-express.ie/business/mary-butler-pledges-to-champion-rural-economy/

ah i dont think much will come of any government that will be formed. we ll be heading back to the ballot boxes before we know it

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Early days for Mary Butler but I find this article a bit depressing. We may have elected another John Deasy to the Dail who is completely unaware that Waterford and its imediate surroundings are the most important part of the county politically not to mention regionally.


http://www.munster-express.ie/business/mary-butler-pledges-to-champion-rural-economy/

Interesting...

Fianna Fáil TD Mary Butler says Fianna Fáil will ensure that rural Ireland is given the same employment and economic opportunities as urban areas, and that the imbalance that has been enforced by Fine Gael and Labour is halted.

Right so four years of one government has caused the employment and economic problems / imbalance rural Ireland faces? Hate to break it to you Mary, Fianna Fail championed that for a very long time.

BoatMad

Chiparus wrote: »

If it was a direct run from the motor way onto the M9 people would have to choose to come off the motorway to travel through town- or stay on the direct route across the bridge , and onto the ORR .

You don't have a choice you have to come off the m9 , yield twice and then re join the n25.

The bridge should have been a direct run without roundabouts from the m9

I agree having crossed it twice recently , its a bizarre setup

BoatMad

Fianna Fáil TD Mary Butler says Fianna Fáil will ensure that rural Ireland is given the same employment and economic opportunities as urban areas, and that the imbalance that has been enforced by Fine Gael and Labour is halted.

was that written yesterday per chance , Mary you blithering idiot

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah i dont think much will come of any government that will be formed. we ll be heading back to the ballot boxes before we know it

Possibly but the point I am making really is that the sentiment expressed is pretty backward. True rural Ireland is people who are farmers and depend on this industry for a living. The majority of people who probably live in Rural Ireland depend on employment in some Urban center which is where most modern industry wants to establish for all intents and purpose they are suburbanites. The problem in Ireland is that FF and especially FG rely on a mentality that is appeals to some archaic idea that "rural" Ireland is to be cherished at all costs. This is the same attitude that kept the country poor for so long

http://www.amazon.com/Preventing-Future-Ireland-poor-long/dp/0717139700

A good read for anyone interested in such things. An interesting piece of history is how Labour politicians sold already purchased aircraft for Air Lingus on account of them being "bourgeois" . Who did the sell them to? The UK who used them to dominate the transatlantic airline market. To me the statements from Mary Butler echo this kind of folly.

BoatMad

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Possibly but the point I am making really is that the sentiment expressed is pretty backward. True rural Ireland is people who are farmers and depend on this industry for a living. The majority of people who probably live in Rural Ireland depend on employment in some Urban center which is where most modern industry wants to establish for all intents and purpose they are suburbanites. The problem in Ireland is that FF and especially FG rely on a mentality that is appeals to some archaic idea that "rural" Ireland is to be cherished at all costs. This is the same attitude that kept the country poor for so long

http://www.amazon.com/Preventing-Future-Ireland-poor-long/dp/0717139700

A good read for anyone interested in such things. An interesting piece of history is how Labour politicians sold already purchased aircraft for Air Lingus on account of them being "bourgeois" . Who did the sell them to? The UK who used them to dominate the transatlantic airline market. To me the statements from Mary Butler echo this kind of folly.

As a person from the "bog" , I agree, we have elevated this notion of " ruralism " to ridiculous levels. Half the people in the " bog" are commuting to Dublin , or are relocated dubliners anyway.

We compound this with the notion, that 4 people living in the countryside, should have a post office , a pub , a doctor and a bus service , as of somehow it's 1910 and the donkey gets tired after a mile or two.

Of course all the modern accompaniments must be provided too, high speed broadband , at hugely subsidised rates , roads to high standards ( cause the merc is a bit low slung don't you know )

We need to get a grip here , the infrastructure in Dublin is on its knees , ( and I live in rural Wexford ) that's needs massive investment, not keep Mrs MIgginso Connor in a job in a post office with 2 clients in ballybigbog

We have traded devaleras vision of rural chasticy and quaint poverty , for a form of rural victim generation as superior to others

We seriously need to get a grip.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Interesting...



Right so four years of one government has caused the employment and economic problems / imbalance rural Ireland faces? Hate to break it to you Mary, Fianna Fail championed that for a very long time.

Ah you're back, pimping Fine Gael as usual. Hate to break it to you, but your heroes destroyed Waterford City over a period of five years. So you're in no position to "break anything" to anyone.

7upfree

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Early days for Mary Butler but I find this article a bit depressing. We may have elected another John Deasy to the Dail who is completely unaware that Waterford and its imediate surroundings are the most important part of the county politically not to mention regionally.


http://www.munster-express.ie/business/mary-butler-pledges-to-champion-rural-economy/

Absolutely stupid statement by her. Unbelievable - given the hammering Waterford City has taken under Fine Gael and labour.

Gardner

Second election looming! Halligan Cullinane and Butler are safe! Known Paudie and how upset he was at losing his seat I bet ya the dirty tricks will certainly come out against Cullinane and internally against Deasy. Roll on May :D

Taxburden carrier

Gardner wrote: »

Second election looming! Halligan Cullinane and Butler are safe! Known Paudie and how upset he was at losing his seat I bet ya the dirty tricks will certainly come out against Cullinane and internally against Deasy. Roll on May :D

The only reason any of those might be "safe" is the p*ss poor standard of candidate.

AdMMM

I can see the likes of the Green Party and PBP benefitting a lot from the re-run as voters are frustrated with both Fine Gael and FF's behaviour over the past number of weeks. Not enough to affect the outcome all that much but enough to give them confidence going into the next local elections. Worth noting that Sinn Fein also at risk of pissing off voters as they seem to be happy to stand on the sidelines.

KevIRL

AdMMM wrote: »

I can see the likes of the Green Party and PBP benefitting a lot from the re-run as voters are frustrated with both Fine Gael and FF's behaviour over the past number of weeks. Not enough to affect the outcome all that much but enough to give them confidence going into the next local elections. Worth noting that Sinn Fein also at risk of pissing off voters as they seem to be happy to stand on the sidelines.

PBP AAA SF and the rest of the anti-everything crowd should hopefully be crucified by the electorate pi$$ed off at another election as they made absolutely no effort to form a govt.

Surprised there wasn't more focus on the fact FF and the rest (apart from FG and Lab) are against water charges and they should have looked at getting a govt set up

fuzzy dunlop

KevIRL wrote: »

PBP AAA SF and the rest of the anti-everything crowd should hopefully be crucified by the electorate pi$$ed off at another election as they made absolutely no effort to form a govt.

Surprised there wasn't more focus on the fact FF and the rest (apart from FG and Lab) are against water charges and they should have looked at getting a govt set up

This makes no sense. The two parties with the biggest mandates and who have policies that are almost identical have almost 100 seats between them. If there is another election it will be solely the responsibility of FF. If you don't like SF or the "anti everything crowd" as you call them then that is fair enough but holding them responsible for the political impasse is a stretch. I pretty much hate FG for what I believe are good reasons. However it seems they have finally come around to at least try burying the civil war hatchet. FF said no! A party that truly had the interests of the country at heart would have taken the opportunity for the good of the country.

robtri

SF had the best election ever, they where voted in by the electorate to make a change, to be different, to change things....
so what have they done in the last 5 weeks
zip.... squat..... they have sat on their hands and said they would not be part of a government with either FF or FG, and refuse to discuss it.... and are happy to not be part of any government and sit on the sidelines and complain about government policy

an absolute waste of a vote.....

TheQuietFella

robtri wrote: »

an absolute waste of a vote.....

I'm inclined to agree!

MRnotlob606

robtri wrote: »

SF had the best election ever, they where voted in by the electorate to make a change, to be different, to change things....
so what have they done in the last 5 weeks
zip.... squat..... they have sat on their hands and said they would not be part of a government with either FF or FG, and refuse to discuss it.... and are happy to not be part of any government and sit on the sidelines and complain about government policy

an absolute waste of a vote.....

But Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael would never go into coalition with Sinn Féin. Its not on their cards.

Sully

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

But Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael would never go into coalition with Sinn Féin. Its not on their cards.

That's because their world apart in terms of policies. Even compared with other left groupings. The left fight like cats and dogs amongst each other but FF/FG get hammered for not immediately and quickly jumping into bed with each other.

Sinn Féin are an opposition patry. Government doesn't suit them. They've little interest in it and have been a disaster in the North.

tomwaterford

robtri wrote: »

SF had the best election ever, they where voted in by the electorate to make a change, to be different, to change things....
so what have they done in the last 5 weeks
zip.... squat..... they have sat on their hands and said they would not be part of a government with either FF or FG, and refuse to discuss it.... and are happy to not be part of any government and sit on the sidelines and complain about government policy

an absolute waste of a vote.....

What is there to discuss....both fg and ff said before the election that they'd not go into government with them?

Ff have come out and decided they don't do coalitions anymore....so it appears for all that fg are bad...at least they attempted to make up a government



As it stands cullinane is the least bad of the city candidates so should stand a fighting chance of getting reelexted??

StringerBell

I would doubt the sincerity of Kenny and his offer to FF, I would also doubt that FF really want to get into government with FG regardless and obviously think that they have a very good chance of doing even better when the public are forced to go the polls again, as long as it does not get portrayed that they forced another election on the people.

Sinn Fein have no chance of getting in to government, so I wouldn't hold them responsible for ruling out entering government with either of the big two since it is little more then a face saving excercise, also they would relish the possibility of being the main opposition party.

It is shameful of course that all these parties are still just looking after their own interests ahead of the nations, but what else would you expect from them. I worry about the electorate that votes in certain types to be honest and am inclined to agree with the statement "People get the government they deserve"

Irish Water is still a huge stumbling block obviously, FG have tied themselves so closely to it they can not be seen to back down over it, and FF have the "red line" issue, along with the slogan that they ran their campaign on the promise of getting FG out of power not going into government with them to force another election while still trying to maintain a good pr image.

Going to the polls again is a risky strategy for all involved, plenty of people who just squeaked in will not relish the prospect of having to do it all again, if these politicians were not getting paid until a dail was formed this posturing, brinksmanship and game playing would not be going on right now I can guarantee you that.

Chiparus

robtri wrote: »

SF had the best election ever, they where voted in by the electorate to make a change, to be different, to change things....
so what have they done in the last 5 weeks
zip.... squat..... they have sat on their hands and said they would not be part of a government with either FF or FG, and refuse to discuss it.... and are happy to not be part of any government and sit on the sidelines and complain about government policy

an absolute waste of a vote.....

SF are the only ones to stick to their pre election promises unfortunately.

FG said they would never go into coalition with FF ( or Lowry).

Chiparus

StringerBell wrote: »

I would doubt the sincerity of Kenny and his offer to FF, I would also doubt that FF really want to get into government with FG regardless and obviously think that they have a very good chance of doing even better when the public are forced to go the polls again, as long as it does not get portrayed that they forced another election on the people.

Sinn Fein have no chance of getting in to government, so I wouldn't hold them responsible for ruling out entering government with either of the big two since it is little more then a face saving excercise, also they would relish the possibility of being the main opposition party.

It is shameful of course that all these parties are still just looking after their own interests ahead of the nations, but what else would you expect from them. I worry about the electorate that votes in certain types to be honest and am inclined to agree with the statement "People get the government they deserve"

Irish Water is still a huge stumbling block obviously, FG have tied themselves so closely to it they can not be seen to back down over it, and FF have the "red line" issue, along with the slogan that they ran their campaign on the promise of getting FG out of power not going into government with them to force another election while still trying to maintain a good pr image.

Going to the polls again is a risky strategy for all involved, plenty of people who just squeaked in will not relish the prospect of having to do it all again, if these politicians were not getting paid until a dail was formed this posturing, brinksmanship and game playing would not be going on right now I can guarantee you that.

I would agree, it would be better to be the opposition rather than a smaller party in a coalition.

redlead

Chiparus wrote: »

SF are the only ones to stick to their pre election promises unfortunately.

FG said they would never go into coalition with FF ( or Lowry).

It's easy to stick to pre election promises when you know you can't implement any of them.

redlead

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Early days for Mary Butler but I find this article a bit depressing. We may have elected another John Deasy to the Dail who is completely unaware that Waterford and its imediate surroundings are the most important part of the county politically not to mention regionally.


http://www.munster-express.ie/business/mary-butler-pledges-to-champion-rural-economy/

Unfortunately the Waterford electorate prove themselves time and time again to be simpletons so we deserve what we get. Mary Butler topped the poll despite the fact that no one who voted for her knew who she was, what she stood for or anything about her.

We also elect John Deasy every single time despite the fact that he literally does absolutely nothing when in office. The funny thing is that he doesn't even bother to pretend anymore. I think the guy clearly has contempt for the east of the county which wins him a lot of votes elsewhere but his support base still haven't figured out that he doesn't represent them either. The funny thing is that he came out saying he wanted the ceann comhairle gig so essentially admitted he doesn't want to work for the people who elected him just so he can stay up in Dublin. What will happen in a few months? John Deasy will be elected.

Of course it's not the Waterford electorates fault that we very rarely have any able politicians. Sadly the most hard working and able we have is David Cullinan and John Halligan. I say sadly because Sinn Feins policies are utter lunacy (I still maintain that there is too many smart people in Sinn Fein to buy into the crap they come out with) and Halligan just is never going to be in a position to do much despite the fact that he is hard working.

Chiparus

redlead wrote: »

It's easy to stick to pre election promises when you know you can't implement any of them.

Yes , but in the event of a further election ,SF will rightly or wrongly be seen as sticking to their pre- election promises.

FG promised no coalition with FF.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/news/enda-kenny-insists-he-has-ruled-out-fine-gael-coalition-with-fianna-fail-on-at-least-10-occasions-34454893.html

Chiparus

redlead wrote: »

Unfortunately the Waterford electorate prove themselves time and time again to be simpletons so we deserve what we get. Mary Butler topped the poll despite the fact that no one who voted for her knew who she was, what she stood for or anything about her.

We also elect John Deasy every single time despite the fact that he literally does absolutely nothing when in office. The funny thing is that he doesn't even bother to pretend anymore. I think the guy clearly has contempt for the east of the county which wins him a lot of votes elsewhere but his support base still haven't figured out that he doesn't represent them either. The funny thing is that he came out saying he wanted the ceann comhairle gig so essentially admitted he doesn't want to work for the people who elected him just so he can stay up in Dublin. What will happen in a few months? John Deasy will be elected.

Of course it's not the Waterford electorates fault that we very rarely have any able politicians. Sadly the most hard working and able we have is David Cullinan and John Halligan. I say sadly because Sinn Feins policies are utter lunacy (I still maintain that there is too many smart people in Sinn Fein to buy into the crap they come out with) and Halligan just is never going to be in a position to do much despite the fact that he is hard working.

Very good analysis, although I see that Martin has promised 24 hour cardiology for UHW as a clear enticement to Halligan.

MRnotlob606

Sully wrote: »

That's because their world apart in terms of policies. Even compared with other left groupings. The left fight like cats and dogs amongst each other but FF/FG get hammered for not immediately and quickly jumping into bed with each other.

Sinn Féin are an opposition patry. Government doesn't suit them. They've little interest in it and have been a disaster in the North.

Damned if you, Damned if you don't. Both Fine Gael and Fianna fáil explicitly ruled out going into government with them. Yet the same people who criticize them for not going into government, would be the same people who who castigate them for attempting to go in the government.