2016 General Election Waterford

fuzzy dunlop

redlead wrote: »

Unfortunately the Waterford electorate prove themselves time and time again to be simpletons so we deserve what we get. Mary Butler topped the poll despite the fact that no one who voted for her knew who she was, what she stood for or anything about her.

We also elect John Deasy every single time despite the fact that he literally does absolutely nothing when in office. The funny thing is that he doesn't even bother to pretend anymore. I think the guy clearly has contempt for the east of the county which wins him a lot of votes elsewhere but his support base still haven't figured out that he doesn't represent them either. The funny thing is that he came out saying he wanted the ceann comhairle gig so essentially admitted he doesn't want to work for the people who elected him just so he can stay up in Dublin. What will happen in a few months? John Deasy will be elected.

Of course it's not the Waterford electorates fault that we very rarely have any able politicians. Sadly the most hard working and able we have is David Cullinan and John Halligan. I say sadly because Sinn Feins policies are utter lunacy (I still maintain that there is too many smart people in Sinn Fein to buy into the crap they come out with) and Halligan just is never going to be in a position to do much despite the fact that he is hard working.

The way I see it not enough people who are swing voters are engaged politically.I don't mean being politically active but by just being tuned in. So when the time comes if they are disgruntled with FF then they will vote FG and vice versa instead of making a more informed choice because this is all they know how to do. The result then is more of the same. We need to learn to vote tactically like Dublin South East. However this is hard because one half of the county will vote for a FF and/or FG canditate no matter what hence Deasy being shocked that the voters in the city not anoint him again. He is an utter waste of space! We may as well be a three seat constituency for all he is worth to us.

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

The way I see it not enough people who are swing voters are engaged politically.I don't mean being politically active but by just being tuned in. So when the time comes if they are disgruntled with FF then they will vote FG and vice versa instead of making a more informed choice because this is all they know how to do. The result then is more of the same. We need to learn to vote tactically like Dublin South East. However this is hard because one half of the county will vote for a FF and/or FG canditate no matter what hence Deasy being shocked that the voters in the city not anoint him again. He is an utter waste of space! We may as well be a three seat constituency for all he is worth to us.

You are correct there is no family loyalty to a particular party as you see in rural constituency. One year you can have 2 FG , next election none.
They consistently kick out ministers , (Mcdowell, Gormley, Creighton) . Perhaps Waterford needs to get rid of the dead wood, and you know who I mean.

Sully

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Damned if you, Damned if you don't. Both Fine Gael and Fianna fáil explicitly ruled out going into government with them. Yet the same people who criticize them for not going into government, would be the same people who who castigate them for attempting to go in the government.

There not even attempting to talk. FF/FG said they wouldn't go into bed with each other and we're closer to that then ever. Sinn Fein won't even talk to like-minded Independents / leftist groups.

tomwaterford

Sully wrote: »

There not even attempting to talk. FF/FG said they wouldn't go into bed with each other and we're closer to that then ever. Sinn Fein won't even talk to like-minded Independents / leftist groups.

Because their simply isn't enough to even come close to a govt numbers....no mind tradional disharmony between socialist party and no one believes labour to be anyway representive of what their label suggests

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

There not even attempting to talk. FF/FG said they wouldn't go into bed with each other and we're closer to that then ever. Sinn Fein won't even talk to like-minded Independents / leftist groups.

Rejoice in their first broken promise? Anything for power eh?

Sully

Chiparus wrote: »

Rejoice in their first broken promise? Anything for power eh?

Or just you know, go back to the polls until the electorate get it right? Where have we seen that before? What reaction did that give?

robtri

Chiparus wrote: »

Rejoice in their first broken promise? Anything for power eh?

but then the electorate spoke and we end up with the diverse spectrum of parties and independents, so whatever they said before means nothing, they where voted in as they are to form a government and get this country fixed.

so much as it pains me at least FF/FG are making an effort.... I shudder at the thoughts of a FF/FG coalition...

SF should be making efforts to try to get form a government, to get some of their policies in place. something is better than nothing.... and at least when the government falls (which any coalition government will) they can hold their heads up and say they tried to make a difference...

So with the SF attitude, really its a waste of a vote unless u honestly believe SF will win a majority at the next election (which in my opinion, based on the last election they havent a hope)

SF should be making themselves available to talks and trying to do what they where voted to do .... help form a government and run this country....

the same applies to Labour.... another waste of a vote....

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

Or just you know, go back to the polls until the electorate get it right? Where have we seen that before? What reaction did that give?

Are you referring to the " Vote Yes for Jobs" Nice referendum part II?

jmcc

Sully wrote: »

Or just you know, go back to the polls until the electorate get it right? Where have we seen that before? What reaction did that give?

The Lisbon Treaty? The one where the scum in Brussels didn't like the Irish people voting so they got a bunch of EUnuch traitors (including the village idiot) to make the Irish people vote again? And still EUnuchs wonder why people don't trust the EU.

The Irish people have voted. The Irish people have got it right. It is up to the politicians to sort out the mess that they, the politicians, created.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

redlead wrote: »

Mary Butler topped the poll despite the fact that no one who voted for her knew who she was, what she stood for or anything about her.

An inanimate carbon rod would have achieved the same result for FF. Basically this was a rebound from 2011 and FF was going to win one seat in Waterford.

We also elect John Deasy every single time despite the fact that he literally does absolutely nothing when in office.

Deasy's vote was way down on previous years and he was previously considered to be squatting on a quota that could have easily brought a second FG candidate in on the numbers.

Halligan just is never going to be in a position to do much despite the fact that he is hard working.

In a situation where independents are being cultivated by FF and FG, Halligan's position is more important. Thus he may be far more important for Waterford than the other candidates.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

robtri wrote: »

So with the SF attitude, really its a waste of a vote unless u honestly believe SF will win a majority at the next election (which in my opinion, based on the last election they havent a hope)

SF is playing a long game. Labour has destroyed itself. The aim of SF is to be "the" opposition party and it can only achieve that if FF and FG go into government. FF realises this but FG still thinks it is 2011 and that it "won" the GE. In real terms, the number difference between FF and FG seats is insignificant because over the course of a government, there will be seat losses.

SF should be making themselves available to talks and trying to do what they where voted to do .... help form a government and run this country....

Don't think that SF campaigned on being in government.

Regards...jmcc

robtri

jmcc wrote: »

In a situation where independents are being cultivated by FF and FG, Halligan's position is more important. Thus he may be far more important for Waterford than the other candidates.

Personally I think thats all for show, even if FG got all the independents they wouldn't have enough to form government.... Once they get FF support, which they should do in the next week or two, (ff to support a minority FG government) the independents are worthless....

What can halligan offer FG or FF that will make a difference to government, unfortunately answer is nothing

jmcc

robtri wrote: »

Once they get FF support, which they should do in the next week or two, (ff to support a minority FG government) the independents are worthless....

If. It is not certain that FG will get support from FF and there's always a possibility that FF will try to organise independent support to bolster its bargaining position and could, and this is unlikely, manage to pull off a minority FF government with independent and FG support. The FFers are not idiots. They know how dangerous it would be to surrender the leadership of the opposition to SF.

Regards...jmcc

BoatMad

jmcc wrote: »

If. It is not certain that FG will get support from FF and there's always a possibility that FF will try to organise independent support to bolster its bargaining position and could, and this is unlikely, manage to pull off a minority FF government with independent and FG support. The FFers are not idiots. They know how dangerous it would be to surrender the leadership of the opposition to SF.

Regards...jmcc

true but FF cant be in Government and also in Opposition so it has to surrender one position

its dilly dallies with the in dependants is all for show , when the next election comes in a few weeks, The public tender for 4m polling cards was just announced

Gardner

seems that Halligan has pulled out of talks with both parties over the 24/7 cardiac care issue at UHW

Cabaal

Gardner wrote: »

seems that Halligan has pulled out of talks with both parties over the 24/7 cardiac care issue at UHW

Won't have mattered if FG move ahead with doing what a majority of people want and that is to address the abortion issue once again, unfortunately many independent TD's seem to not care about polls showing what people want to see change in.

They only seem to care about the few people that voted for them and their personal view rather then a much much bigger picture.

Fine Gael risks losing votes of Independents over abortion
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2016/fine-gael-risks-losing-votes-of-independents-over-abortion-34619080.html

Max Powers

Gardner wrote: »

seems that Halligan has pulled out of talks with both parties over the 24/7 cardiac care issue at UHW

Saddened to hear this, this was halligans chance to prove he can achieve more than a couple of speeches.to me, if this stays same,I see little reason to vote for him in future, golden opportunity his best certainlyto do something for Waterford.
He was pretty much useless previous to this and even more useless to Waterford s needs after this.I would love if I'm wrong and he somehow turns this around.

redlead

Max Powers wrote: »

Saddened to hear this, this was halligans chance to prove he can achieve more than a couple of speeches.to me, if this stays same,I see little reason to vote for him in future, golden opportunity his best certainlyto do something for Waterford.
He was pretty much useless previous to this and even more useless to Waterford s needs after this.I would love if I'm wrong and he somehow turns this around.

At least he is trying though. What can be said for the rest?

BBM77

Max Powers wrote: »

Saddened to hear this, this was halligans chance to prove he can achieve more than a couple of speeches.to me, if this stays same,I see little reason to vote for him in future, golden opportunity his best certainlyto do something for Waterford.
He was pretty much useless previous to this and even more useless to Waterford s needs after this.I would love if I'm wrong and he somehow turns this around.

If Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are being unreasonable and will not budge on the cardiac care issue, which is what they have been, then he is completely correct to pull out of the talks. This is basic care for somewhere the size of Waterford. Support from Waterford’s TD should be based on 24 hour cardiac care being reinstated end of story. At least he has tried something tangible unlike the other tongue waggers that stood over the stripping of basic services from Waterford.

Max Powers

redlead wrote: »

At least he is trying though. What can be said for the rest?

Are you naive enough to think that all our representative havent tried,I'm not going to distinguish between the parties, they all tried and would have better chance of success inside in the govt where they have chance of getting their voice heard, I'm not referring to speeches like halligan has given in the dail and on tv which nobody important is listening to.a good opportunity lost, indicating the uselessness of his position as our rep.
I hope I'm wrong and he succeeds,I will gladly eat my own words and congratulate him.

redlead

Max Powers wrote: »

Are you naive enough to think that all our representative havent tried,I'm not going to distinguish between the parties, they all tried and would have better chance of success inside in the govt where they have chance of getting their voice heard, I'm not referring to speeches like halligan has given in the dail and on tv which nobody important is listening to.a good opportunity lost, indicating the uselessness of his position as our rep.
I hope I'm wrong and he succeeds,I will gladly eat my own words and congratulate him.

I think that you are probably naive to assume that they have. There was three Tds in government over the last dail. That government probably did more damage to Waterford than any other in the history of the state. I didn't see any of them being too vocal about any of it.

Max Powers

redlead wrote: »

I think that you are probably naive to assume that they have. There was three Tds in government over the last dail. That government probably did more damage to Waterford than any other in the history of the state. I didn't see any of them being too vocal about any of it.

Well, there is plenty of proof that they have tried...
http://www.johndeasytd.com/questions-2015-16/category/university-hospital-waterford
The above question by deasy is more valuable than what halligan achieved,f-all.
Put Coffey and cardiac care into Google and u will find similar articles on him campaigning.I didn't search conway, I guess you will find similar.

Even going beyond what appears in the media is what happens in closed rooms, in corridors etc.the other govt tds had access,halligan is invisible there.
Still, some seem to just want headlines of halligan 'sticking it' to the decision makers.

The Bowling Alley

Everyone congratulating John Halligan for walking out of the government talks. Someone please explain this to me.

redlead

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Everyone congratulating John Halligan for walking out of the government talks. Someone please explain this to me.

His red line issue is 24 hour cardiac care. Clearly both FF and FG have made it clear that they have no intention of giving this. What do you expect him to do?

AdMMM

Max Powers wrote: »

Saddened to hear this, this was halligans chance to prove he can achieve more than a couple of speeches.to me, if this stays same,I see little reason to vote for him in future, golden opportunity his best certainlyto do something for Waterford.
He was pretty much useless previous to this and even more useless to Waterford s needs after this.I would love if I'm wrong and he somehow turns this around.

It's very difficult to make sense of your stance. You seem to believe that the biggest mistake Waterford ever did was vote out Paudie Coffey despite the fact that he had five years to try and influence those within his own party. Do you think that Halligan should have agreed to blindly support a government, despite being told there's no chance for 24 hour cardiac care in Waterford on the off-chance that he might be rewarded for being a yes man and get a small concession for Waterford near the end of the lifetime of the Government?

What do you make of the actions of the other TDs over the past few weeks? Who has impressed you the most?

robtri

redlead wrote: »

His red line issue is 24 hour cardiac care. Clearly both FF and FG have made it clear that they have no intention of giving this. What do you expect him to do?

how about to do his job as well which is to the best for Waterford, I understand his issue with 24 cardiac care.... but by walking out he has given up any chance of being able to do anything productive for Waterford than sit on the sidelines moaning and whining, which achieves nothing.

The Bowling Alley

robtri wrote: »

how about to do his job as well which is to the best for Waterford, I understand his issue with 24 cardiac care.... but by walking out he has given up any chance of being able to do anything productive for Waterford than sit on the sidelines moaning and whining, which achieves nothing.

This.

fuzzy dunlop

AdMMM wrote: »

It's very difficult to make sense of your stance. You seem to believe that the biggest mistake Waterford ever did was vote out Paudie Coffey despite the fact that he had five years to try and influence those within his own party. Do you think that Halligan should have agreed to blindly support a government, despite being told there's no chance for 24 hour cardiac care in Waterford on the off-chance that he might be rewarded for being a yes man and get a small concession for Waterford near the end of the lifetime of the Government?

What do you make of the actions of the other TDs over the past few weeks? Who has impressed you the most?

Paudie Coffey was too late to the race. His promotion was a token attempt to save a second FG seat in the constituency. This idea that we have to wait for party politicians to "serve" their time is an attitude we can't afford anymore.Brian O'Shea, Keneally, Deasy had served their time and it got them nowhere. Strategy and Dail maths is the name of the game. That's why Cullen did not have to serve his time. FFS they were at one stage considering making one of the Haely Rae's a minister for agriculture. The Independents are the power brokers now and if Halligan acts like a cheap date then he well be treated like a cheap date. You can "work hard" till the cows come home but if you have no leverage then you're f@cked. Coffey was ultimately f@cked because he was one of a hundred others that would do what they were told.

To be fair to Coffey his work on the North Quays was good work but he failed dismally with regard to the hospital. Too little too late.

cul beag

A cop out by Halligan. Yes the hospital is of huge importance but there's more needed in the region than just health. Whatever chance he/we had of getting something positive done down here with him working with whatever minority government, he/we have certainly no hope of moving forward with no voice at the top table. Certainly won't be voting for him again. The easy option is to sit outside and complain,he had the chance to roll up his sleeves and get stuck in there and really try to work for the betterment of Waterford but how is he going to do that now? What little hope we would have got by him being inside,we will get sweet f**k all by him copping out and sitting on the back benches. Disgusted with him as my vote has been completely wasted. This bulls**t that he has to represent his constituents and the mandate he represents for them well I am one of them and I certainly don't want him voicing his opinion for a few minutes through Dail time questions when he should have taken this marvellous opportunity to show us what he can really do for this region. He has spat the dummy out of the pram because he didn't get his way(officially anyway) but to be honest it looks like it is a smokescreen as he saw what happened to Coffee and decided he better look after his own seat and the easiest way of doing that is by being vocal in opposition with never getting anything of importance done.

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Paudie Coffey was too late to the race. His promotion was a token attempt to save a second FG seat in the constituency. This idea that we have to wait for party politicians to "serve" their time is an attitude we can't afford anymore.Brian O'Shea, Keneally, Deasy had served their time and it got them nowhere. Strategy and Dail maths is the name of the game. That's why Cullen did not have to serve his time. FFS they were at one stage considering making one of the Haely Rae's a minister for agriculture. The Independents are the power brokers now and if Halligan acts like a cheap date then he well be treated like a cheap date. You can "work hard" till the cows come home but if you have no leverage then you're f@cked. Coffey was ultimately f@cked because he was one of a hundred others that would do what they were told.

To be fair to Coffey his work on the North Quays was good work but he failed dismally with regard to the hospital. Too little too late.

Most politicians do have to wait to serve their time in back bench, that's just a fact, few exceptions don't prove rule.