2016 General Election Waterford

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

No it wouldn't. There are too many there with seniority on him and not enough posts for FG to give him a post.That is even before they do a deal with Independents. This is the reality. This woulda, coulda, shoulda, nonsense you are coming out with is pure magic beans and nobody bought it thankfully. People are too clever for that. Its why they voted for Cullen consistently and why they didn't give FG a second chance. They know what a safe bet is when they see one and what is not.

I don't see your logic there, situation we have is a fg govt with 4/5 others thrown in.Plenty of seats left for fg to dish out.No could, should about it.

fuzzy dunlop

Max Powers wrote: »

I don't see your logic there, situation we have is a fg govt with 4/5 others thrown in.Plenty of seats left for fg to dish out.No could, should about it.

That's because you don't know what logic is. FG government with 50 seats:D

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

That's because you don't know what logic is. FG government with 50 seats:D

Fuzzy, personal insults are more demeaning to your argument than mine.fg minority govt will have more seats to go around, having less td's is irrelevant in that context.that's where we are at the moment.as I said at the start, we had some weight in the game, now we have none.

fuzzy dunlop

Max Powers wrote: »

Fuzzy, personal insults are more demeaning to your argument than mine.fg minority govt will have more seats to go around, having less td's is irrelevant in that context.that's where we are at the moment.as I said at the start, we had some weight in the game, now we have none.

Look you're obviously not with it on this issue. There is no government yet but you are talking as if there is. You are talking about Paudie as if the scenario was the FG only need a few seats extra. They need 30! Think about that for a second. Even if they do manage to form a minority government they will be so hamstrung that the opposition will effectively be calling the shots.You seem to think that Paudie would have a position simply because he had one before the election.This is not the case and is frankly childlike in its simplicity. Even if every Junior and senior was in the hands of FG they would still be nearly 20 short. The Waterford seat would have been safe so it would have just as likely gone somewhere else and if not definitely after the first reshuffle. So the strategic move for Waterford was to punish the government the way they did.Otherwise the message would have been we are gluttons for punishment. If FG do form a government they will be so constrained by the numbers that a whiff of impropriety will bring it down. The consequence of that is that the "influence" you think we would have by some imaginary position Paudie coffey might have would be nullified. So wake up and smell the coffee FFS! Its not 2007 or 2011! Its 2016 and things have changed and FG are royally screwed.

BoatMad

FG are royally screwed.

based on the recent results the electorate screwed everyone

Max Powers

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Look you're obviously not with it on this issue. There is no government yet but you are talking as if there is. You are talking about Paudie as if the scenario was the FG only need a few seats extra. They need 30! Think about that for a second. Even if they do manage to form a minority government they will be so hamstrung that the opposition will effectively be calling the shots.You seem to think that Paudie would have a position simply because he had one before the election.This is not the case and is frankly childlike in its simplicity. Even if every Junior and senior was in the hands of FG they would still be nearly 20 short. The Waterford seat would have been safe so it would have just as likely gone somewhere else and if not definitely after the first reshuffle. So the strategic move for Waterford was to punish the government the way they did.Otherwise the message would have been we are gluttons for punishment. If FG do form a government they will be so constrained by the numbers that a whiff of impropriety will bring it down. The consequence of that is that the "influence" you think we would have by some imaginary position Paudie coffey might have would be nullified. So wake up and smell the coffee FFS! Its not 2007 or 2011! Its 2016 and things have changed and FG are royally screwed.

I'm not talking about numbers of seats, I'm saying he was our best chance and would still be today.we all knew they were gonna be biggest party and it has worked out like that now.the way things are shaping up, looks like there will be plenty of jobs for fg to share out in their minority govt.we would be better off with some skin in the game even if it probably won't last for 2+ years, that would have been strategic and then in 2 years or so they would be annihilated and we drop them too for whomever is best placed to deliver for us.

Wanderer78

BoatMad wrote:

based on the recent results the electorate screwed everyone

Hahaha no they didn't. The electorate voted as by the rules of our democratic system

Chiparus

Max Powers wrote: »

Plenty of tds who served their time and went nowhere substantial true opposite true too, as you said enda Kenny got where he is today virtually by default of being the longest there.
As for Coffey,I don't think you can say with confidence that he got junior minister because of that March.however he was there (junior min) and would have been our only td of any influence, that's the bottom line really if we want investment from govt etc

You think he got it for his managerial skills? Safety officer at ESB?

Chiparus

Max Powers wrote: »

I'm not talking about numbers of seats, I'm saying he was our best chance and would still be today.we all knew they were gonna be biggest party and it has worked out like that now.the way things are shaping up, looks like there will be plenty of jobs for fg to share out in their minority govt.we would be better off with some skin in the game even if it probably won't last for 2+ years, that would have been strategic and then in 2 years or so they would be annihilated and we drop them too for whomever is best placed to deliver for us.

We could have voted Coffee, but I believe that FG/FF represent old corrupt, thieving Ireland.
They may fight now , but with both parties less on less than 50% . there will be prolonged instability, there will probably another election soon.

Max Powers

Chiparus wrote: »

You think he got it for his managerial skills? Safety officer at ESB?

Was that his previous job, that is a difficult job in a difficult environment.certainly more applicable than the numerous teachers and career politicians/representatives.

Chiparus

Yep, Labour, FG and FF are full of these types along with the country auctioneer/cutehoor/offshore account holder types.

Max Powers

Chiparus wrote: »

Yep, Labour, FG and FF are full of these types along with the country auctioneer/cutehoor/offshore account holder types.

These types?Better that then gun runner, murderer, drug dealer,vigilante, involved in cover up and denial of cases of abuse in another party.

MRnotlob606

How you can be from Waterford and Vote Fine Gael makes my mind boggle.

MRnotlob606

Would be better if this country was a Social Democratic country in my opinion. Low unemployment, A Decent healthcare Universal healthcare system, and no exploitative work pathways to work schemes, or multinational companies giving us the run around.

Max Powers

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Would be better if this country was a Social Democratic country in my opinion. Low unemployment, A Decent healthcare Universal healthcare system, and no exploitative work pathways to work schemes, or multinational companies giving us the run around.

Don't think you will find any argument there, that's what practically every country in Europe wants...to various degrees of success.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

Don't think you will find any argument there, that's what practically every country in Europe wants...to various degrees of success.

i think we re moving further away from it though. something isnt right at all

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i think we re moving further away from it though. something isnt right at all

Yeah might be,I don't know, we aren't set up too bad here compared to others, yeah Health is a bit a mess but its free if you are deemed to not be able t to afford it.one of the world's most progressive tax systems and reasonably generous welfare compared to most others.by no means top notch but worse in places in many eu countries and U.S.A. probably.obviously not cause for patting ourselves on back clearly.

MRnotlob606

Max Powers wrote: »

Yeah might be,I don't know, we aren't set up too bad here compared to others, yeah Health is a bit a mess but its free if you are deemed to not be able t to afford it.one of the world's most progressive tax systems and reasonably generous welfare compared to most others.by no means top notch but worse in places in many eu countries and U.S.A. probably.obviously not cause for patting ourselves on back clearly.

I think we have areas to for improvement of course. It's easier for us to be like the Nordic countries than the U.S.A due our location and economy. We are making good changes though, although the two week paternity leave is short, It's quite revolutionary for this country.

I'd really like to be see the healthcare system improve. It's more or less an apartheid system.

Chiparus

Max Powers wrote: »

These types?Better that then gun runner, murderer, drug dealer,vigilante, involved in cover up and denial of cases of abuse in another party.

They are no better than the shinners , a bunch of self serving sleeveens with offshore bank accounts , holiday homes all over the world while supposedly on salaries of less than 150k per year?

All they need is a few gullible party yahoos to organise the vote for them and they are set for life.

AdMMM

Seems as if a concession of sorts has been agreed for WUH, as per today's Irish Times.. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fg-and-ff-negotiating-teams-expected-to-meet-to-end-deadlock-1.2623729

Minister for Health Leo Varadkar is to meet members of the Independent Alliance on Monday in a bid to secure their support for a Fine Gael-minority government. He has offered Waterford TD John Halligan a clinical review of the 24-hour care at the regional hospital and an extension of hours.

BoatMad

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I think we have areas to for improvement of course. It's easier for us to be like the Nordic countries than the U.S.A due our location and economy. We are making good changes though, although the two week paternity leave is short, It's quite revolutionary for this country.

I'd really like to be see the healthcare system improve. It's more or less an apartheid system.

given the Nordic countries like Sweden , have dismantled certain aspects of their social system , and the huge criticism there from the middle classes to the tax load, its not a good model.

If you lived or worked there you'd know what I mean. Its no social democratic paradise the lefties make it out to be.

No-one has got the mix right possibly because no one can. We can only approximate to the solution

it will always be difficult in a country so underpopulated to balance social services ( including paternity) with tax loading on the middle classes ( who pay the greatest amounts of tax as a group)

our public healthcare is actually quite good, and is very expensive consumer of taxes. If you allow people to accumulate personal wealth ( of any amount) , then you have to accept that they can " buy" things with that "wealth", that includes bigger cars and better healthcare

Taxburden carrier

The health system, just like the legal system and the educational system, primarily exists for the benefit of employees and vested interests.

BoatMad

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

The health system, just like the legal system and the educational system, primarily exists for the benefit of employees and vested interests.

like all generalist and simplistic statements , its both generalist and simplistic


any organisation with employees has them as a " vested interest", thats fact of human interaction
users are also " vested interests "

nothing wrong with vested interests, per se

Wanderer78

BoatMad wrote: »

our public healthcare is actually quite good, and is very expensive consumer of taxes. If you allow people to accumulate personal wealth ( of any amount) , then you have to accept that they can " buy" things with that "wealth", that includes bigger cars and better healthcare

im not sure where you're getting your info on our public health services but it certainly aint the same as my sources, i.e. those that actually work and that have worked in it. things are pretty bad at the moment, serious lack of money and resources, moral is rock bottom, highly stressed workforce etc etc etc. family member recently left the public health service for the private sector. wont be returning. dreadful working environment and pay in the public sector.

id have to agree with steve wozniak, companies like apple etc have to start paying more tax. our public services are in desperate need of investment and its not just here in ireland but globally. we cant keep taxing the labour force or privatising our public services. with billions and possibly trillions accumulating in offshore accounts, no wonder our public services are struggling, globally. i suspect our private healthcare system is actually where the true problem lies. just as our financial system is a parasite on the real world economy as described by michael hudson, i suspect the private element of our health system is the parasite of our health system as a whole, i.e. its causing the downfall of our public health system or helping to do so.

accumulation of wealth is a very dangerous approach to economics as its helping to cause runaway inequality. every person, no matter what your wealth is or isnt, should have access to an adequate public health system. sadly i feel the opposite is happening in ireland. this is a very dangerous approach to running a country as the health system is one of the backbone services of a country. have a bad one and you ll create very serious and complex social issues. it will cause social fracturing and highly complex, problematic social problems.

robtri

Wanderer78 wrote: »

serious lack of money and resources, moral is rock bottom, highly stressed workforce

Personally i don't think money is the issue, bad management, inappropriate spending is the biggest issue.

paying more taxes and throwing money at the problem, will not solve it...

do you think your pay pack can take some more taxes???

Wanderer78

robtri wrote: »

Personally i don't think money is the issue, bad management, inappropriate spending is the biggest issue.

paying more taxes and throwing money at the problem, will not solve it...

do you think your pay pack can take some more taxes???

some very good points there alright and you're probably not wrong at all. i do think the problems are due to multiple complex factors. ive heard bad things about the management within our health service. im deeply shocked at how our politicians have been dealing with this, and the buck ultimately stops with them. ive also heard of dreadful wastage in our public services.

the labour force cannot take anymore taxation, hence why i ranted about corporation tax. theres something fundamentally going wrong with taxation at the higher tiers of our financial and social structures. i do believe michael hudson is probably right here, i.e. taxation has been slowly removed from the rich and placed onto the lower classes, hence why we now have a situation whereby companies such as google and apple etc pay little or no taxes globally. our public services are in desperate need of investment, we cannot keep taxing the labour force for this money. vast amounts of money is accumulating in tax havens. our public services need this money desperately, but nobody knows how to stop this. very complex problem

AdMMM

Wonder will we be resurrecting this thread again this year?

Gael23

AdMMM wrote: »

Wonder will we be resurrecting this thread again this year?

Wonder [when] will we be resurrecting this thread again this year?

Cabaal

AdMMM wrote: »

Wonder will we be resurrecting this thread again this year?

Nah, we'd just have a new 2017 General Election Waterford :pac:

Johnboy1951

It appears Halligan did much better than his detractors foretold.