Pronunciation of 'Fionn'

PLL

Suggested as a baby name by my other half, he pronounces it Fee-un something that sounds phonetically like that. I think you'll understand what I mean.

However, in my research it is described as being pronounced 'Fin' and the name obviously deriving from Finn MacCool.

So what is correct or can both be used?

schaffer1969

PLL wrote: »

Suggested as a baby name by my other half, he pronounces it 'Fee-yon' or something that sounds phonetically like that. I think you'll understand what I mean.

However, in my research it is described as being pronounced 'Fin' and the name obviously deriving from Finn MacCool.

So what is correct or can both be used?

Irish versus English version of the name

PLL

schaffer1969 wrote: »

Irish versus English version of the name

I thought as much. It just confused me that on the Irish baby names website, all other names were shown how to be pronounced phonetically in Irish. Whereas Fionn was just given 'Fin' with no explanation of the Irish pronunciation.

tuisginideach

Somehting like Fyuh-inn (run together) rather than Fee-un is how I would pronounce it - it has a much richer sound than Fin, a lovely depth to the sound.

AnLonDubh

Either Fee-un or Few-n are the pronunciations in Irish.

Although in native Irish it isn't really Fee-un, just F-un, but the F is a sound not found in English that can sound like Fee to English speakers.

Insect Overlord

I'd say it like Fjunn, if Scandinavian convention is of any use to you.

An gal gréine

In Donegal it is definitely not Fin, but hard to spell it out.
I'd guess at something like Fff-un

JCX BXC

Never heard Fionn being pronounced "Finn"

Insect Overlord

Carnacalla wrote: »

Never heard Fionn being pronounced "Finn"

Finn is the Anglicised version of the name. You'd see it in a lot of translations of the Fianna stories.

Birga

Hi,

I came across this thread at the start of the year when I was looking into baby names. The description of Finn above as being the "Anglicised" form of the name, was my original understanding too, but conflicted with some books I read on Gaelic names so I thought I'd look into it more.

The original post concerned the pronunciation of "Fionn" so my addition concerning both Finn and Fionn is slightly off topic but follows from the last post and might be of interest to people in the same position as I was.

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Spelling

The spelling "Finn" is not an anglicised version of the modern Irish "Fionn."

The spelling actually precedes Fionn; it is an older Gaelic version and probably the most common in early written records. The three main spellings in Gaelic literature, i.e. the annals, Fenian and Ulster cycles of mythology etc are:
Old Irish: Find
Old and Middle Irish: Finn
Early Modern Irish: Fionn - and Finn for the genitive/possessive case
Modern Irish: Fionn

While Finn McCool is regarded as the Anglicised form of Fionn Mac Cumhaill, it's only the McCool that is an English transliteration; Finn is a well documented Gaelic form of the name. The longest medieval collection of Fenian stories survives in the Acallam na Senórach where the name is written as Finn Mac Cumaill. For this reason, most academic works use the spelling "Finn."

A similar example of an Old Irish versus Modern Irish verion of a name is Aífe v Aoife. With both Aífe and Finn, the glide vowel "o" doesn't get inserted until the early modern Irish period (~1300).

Pronunciation

Trying to find out how to pronounce Fionn is relatively straight forward as it is now a common Irish name. However, the original post listed "fin" as a potential Irish pronunciation and figuring out if this is correct or not isn't as cut and dry as it might appear. Popularity of Gaelic names is relatively recent but their various pronunciations go back quite a while.

It is more difficult to get solid sources on pronunciation than on spelling, as its not clear how names were pronounced 1,000 years ago, but it's even tricky to find information from just 100 years ago in Irish speaking areas. What I've found in academic books, a linguistic descriptions of Conemara and Ulster dialects and other internet searches is the following.

The Official Standard for the Irish language was brought in by the Irish government in 1958. Much of the variations in spellings of Irish names and words were, naturally, removed. The dominant pronunciation taught around the country was that of the Munster dialect.

The Munster pronunciation of Fionn is Fyun (which makes more sense as a transliteration and Anglicised form of the name if that were its sole pronunciation, much as Osheen/Usheen is the anglicised, but rare form, of Oisín). Fyun is now by far the dominant pronunciation across Ireland.

However, at the start of the last century Fyin, or Fee-in was the pronunciation in much of Conemara.

I have read in linguistic descriptions online that the correct Ulster dialect pronunciation of ~ionn is "in". I've spoken to a couple of people either side of the border in Ulster who do pronounce Fionn as "fin". But I have also read that Donegal people (as above) pronounce it as "fun" and others as the more common "fyun".

It is not surprising that a name thousands of years old should have a multitude of pronunciations across the country as varied as the Irish dialects themselves. It might be worth noting that pretty much nobody pronounces the second "n" so all pronunciations are a modern, if not anglicised version, of the original anyway.

In Ireland it's probably simplest to use Fionn if you want to pronounce the name 'Fyun' and Finn if you want to pronounce the name 'Fin'; but it's a personal choice. Both are Irish spellings and pronunciations, the latter less common and older.

Final nugget for anyone still awake...the original Irish name Find comes from the Celtic Vind (fair, brilliant) and is also the root of the Austrian city Wien (Vienna).

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Hope that's of interest to anyone like myself who is looking to find out more about the name.

Birga

An gal gréine

Well researched Birga, very interesting.