John Terry Retiring

Hank Scorpio

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Good player, rated by Chelsea fans I guess as an all time great but tbh was some way off that. Was fortunate enough to be at Chelsea when they had the resources to spend big and pack the side with brilliant players, and with a coach that built a defensive strategy around his strengths and protected against his weaknesses. An undistinguished England career also doesn't reflect well on his greatness.
Greatest EPL defender, I don't think do. For one Paul McGrath in his short time in the epl was a much more talented center back, even though his epl career was short (after Sly invented soccer in 92).
In fact, I'd argue he wasn't even Chelsea's best centre back since 92, Marcel Desailly says hello.

I'm totally unbiased here being a United fan but this is some pile of dog doo imo. He stayed in that Chelsea side the same way people like Drogba did despite all the money spent and players brought in because he became part of the spine of the team, and probably the most influential part.

McGrath would never come into the conversation as the EPL's greatest ever CB if he wasn't for the fact that he is Irish, he underachieved massively because of his personal problems. To even compare the two is ridiculous. Desailly came to Chelsea past his prime, all he won in England was a single Fa Cup.

People can hate on the man for his ethics and all the bad stuff associated with him, but purely from a footballing and achievement standpoint I don't see how anyone can dismiss him in the conversation of best ever EPL defenders. In my eyes he's the best and people seem to have short memorys.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

Fifpro is a very good way to gauge how good a player is. It's picked by Professional footballers

Not sure about that.I'd imagine professionals wouldn't get to watch as many matches as people in the media and also some selections have almost certainly been based on reputation rather than performances throughout the year.

David Luiz appeared in the team in 2014.

theoneeyedman

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'm totally unbiased here being a United fan but this is some pile of dog doo imo. He stayed in that Chelsea side the same way people like Drogba did despite all the money spent and players brought in because he became part of the spine of the team, and probably the most influential part.

McGrath would never come into the conversation as the EPL's greatest ever CB if he wasn't for the fact that he is Irish, he underachieved massively because of his personal problems. To even compare the two is ridiculous. Desailly came to Chelsea past his prime, all he won in England was a single Fa Cup.

People can hate on the man for his ethics and all the bad stuff associated with him, but purely from a footballing and achievement standpoint I don't see how anyone can dismiss him in the conversation of best ever EPL defenders. In my eyes he's the best and people seem to have short memorys.

I'm not saying he was/is useless, far from it. It could be argued that he maximised the talent he had through his work rate etc, but the greatest.... I dunno. As I said, I'd argue in terms of raw talent, McGrath had more. So had Desailly, and he achieved more throughout his whole career and on the international stage. If it's just EPL, well John O'Shea has 5 epl medals, so what criteria us being used? He managed to stay in the team as you say, but any centre back worth his salt would have looked good surrounded by Cech, Desailly, Carvalho, Makelely et al.

I wonder did jt outstay his welcome, and did Roman decide that his 'leadership' of the dressing room was finally overshadowing his usefulness on the pitch?

niallo27

Lukker- wrote: »

Arsenal fans certainly like to vote and win polls.

All I'm saying is polls don't really give an accurate picture of anything, just who has the most fans on boards. Football fans are too tribal in general not to.

Its nice for them to win something.

I'm here all week.

Super-Rush

To elaborate on my original comment now that i have the time.

I'm not saying JT is a bad player, in fact he would be in the top 3 center backs in the PL era IMO. Whether he's a good or bad person is irrelevant as well. I couldn't give a sh1t what a player is like off the pitch,

For me Rio Ferdinand is number 1, followed by Adams and then Terry. People forget that Rio played at the highest level for 14 years. He was a massive part of the Leeds team who got to the CL semi final and was the only player who went on to further success out of that squad.

He broke the British transfer record twice and the World transfer record for a defender twice. He won 6 PL titles, 1 CL winners medal, 4 league cups, a World Club Championship and 81 England Caps. He could defend, he could pass the ball, he could play football, score, lead and win.

niallo27

Super-Rush wrote: »

To elaborate on my original comment now that i have the time.

I'm not saying JT is a bad player, in fact he would be in the top 3 center backs in the PL era IMO. Whether he's a good or bad person is irrelevant as well. I couldn't give a sh1t what a player is like off the pitch,

For me Rio Ferdinand is number 1, followed by Adams and then Terry. People forget that Rio played at the highest level for 14 years. He was a massive part of the Leeds team who got to the CL semi final and was the only player who went on to further success out of that squad.

He broke the British transfer record twice and the World transfer record for a defender twice. He won 6 PL titles, 1 CL winners medal, 4 league cups, a World Club Championship and 81 England Caps. He could defend, he could pass the ball, he could play football, score, lead and win.

I would have Sami ahead of Rio myself, similar kind of intelligent footballer but also popped up with a few goals.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

I would have Sami ahead of Rio myself, similar kind of intelligent footballer but also popped up with a few goals.

niallo27

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Controversial maybe but he was an incredible footballer who made the game look so easy. Scored over three times the amount Rio did playing for a lesser team.

Kerrigooney

niallo27 wrote: »

Controversial maybe but he was an incredible footballer who made the game look so easy. Scored over three times the amount Rio did playing for a lesser team.

Didn't miss any drug tests either.

BMMachine

sami hyypia is a tier below rio. both great players but one was quite clearly better than the other

hullaballoo

Sami Hyypia and Ledley King.

I mean for fuck sake.

niallo27

Hyppia was incredibly consistent. His partnership with henchoz was incredible.

bucketybuck

niallo27 wrote: »

Hyppia was incredibly consistent. His partnership with henchoz was incredible.

Didn't you see the gif posted?

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Hyppia was incredibly consistent. His partnership with henchoz was incredible.

What's incredible is someone saying "the partnership of the incredible Hyppia and Henchoz was incredible".

Panthro

hullaballoo wrote: »

Sami Hyypia and Ledley King.

I mean for fuck sake.

Well thannnnk you!

earlytobed

Despicable person. Ok he was a great centre back, but I would never want him at my club (at any stage of his career).
Suited the "We're Chelsea we do what we want" mob but I certainly won't miss him.
How anybody could ignore his thuggery on and off the pitch baffles me

earlytobed

Despicable person. Ok he was a great centre back, but I would never want him at my club (at any stage of his career).
Suited the "We're Chelsea we do what we want" mob but I certainly won't miss him.
How anybody could ignore his thuggery on and off the pitch baffles me

chopperbyrne

Very good player, but in terms of English CBs of the Premier League era, he's outside the top three of Rio, Sol and Adams.

He'll probably head to the MLS for bucket loads of money for a couple of years.

earlytobed

earlytobed wrote: »

Despicable person. Ok he was a great centre back, but I would never want him at my club (at any stage of his career).
Suited the "We're Chelsea we do what we want" mob but I certainly won't miss him.
How anybody could ignore his thuggery on and off the pitch baffles me

I think I could ignore everything...but the racism.

I mean, if he has affairs or whatever, that's between him and his wife and the other woman/women.

But his racist streak, naaaaaaaa.

Kirby

Rio is overrated by the united fans on this forum. Understandable but true nonetheless. He wasn't half the ball playing defender he thought himself to be and relied on his pace more than most. When he lost that pace, and he lost it early due to his back issues, he got exposed constantly and the last few years of his career highlighted this over and over.

Slow defenders like Terry, Carragher, Hyypia were slow from the beginning so they had to develop other aspects of their game. When you don't have the physical ability to bail you out of trouble, you learn to read the game better. They don't have the pace to begin with so as they age, they don't suffer the same decline.

Terry will always be the better defender of the two. The fact that he was a bit of an arse off the field doesn't change that.

sReq | uTeK

niallo27 wrote: »

I would have Sami ahead of Rio myself, similar kind of intelligent footballer but also popped up with a few goals.

A bit of pee actually came out. I'm surprised you didn't post this in the united forum, WUM of the year!

Kirby

Is having a differing opinion being a wind up merchant now? Its not outlandish. He isn't saying he thinks Paul McShane is a better player....Hyypia is well respected and had a good career at a high level.

And you should go to the doctor with that bladder issue.

chopperbyrne

Kirby wrote: »

Rio is overrated by the united fans on this forum. Understandable but true nonetheless. He wasn't half the ball playing defender he thought himself to be and relied on his pace more than most. When he lost that pace, and he lost it early due to his back issues, he got exposed constantly and the last few years of his career highlighted this over and over.

Slow defenders like Terry, Carragher, Hyypia were slow from the beginning so they had to develop other aspects of their game. When you don't have the physical ability to bail you out of trouble, you learn to read the game better. They don't have the pace to begin with so as they age, they don't suffer the same decline.

Terry will always be the better defender of the two. The fact that he was a bit of an arse off the field doesn't change that.

Rio's best attributes were his positioning and reading of the game. So many attacks against United were broken up by Rio intercepting a pass and then starting the counter attack.

astonaidan

Kirby wrote: »

Rio is overrated by the united fans on this forum. Understandable but true nonetheless. He wasn't half the ball playing defender he thought himself to be and relied on his pace more than most. When he lost that pace, and he lost it early due to his back issues, he got exposed constantly and the last few years of his career highlighted this over and over.

Slow defenders like Terry, Carragher, Hyypia were slow from the beginning so they had to develop other aspects of their game. When you don't have the physical ability to bail you out of trouble, you learn to read the game better. They don't have the pace to begin with so as they age, they don't suffer the same decline.

Terry will always be the better defender of the two. The fact that he was a bit of an arse off the field doesn't change that.

Its not just United fans, the fact you put Carragher and Hyypia in the same category as him is laughable tbh. Like I dont think Rio was the best for me that was Sol but still Carragher and Hyypia :pac:

Kirby

I didn't put Hyypia or carragher in the same category. You clearly didn't read the post and just saw what you wanted.

I put Terry in a better category and used Carragher as an example of a slow defender in his youth who had to develop different aspects of the game because of it.

FatherTed

niallo27 wrote: »

I would have Sami ahead of Rio myself, similar kind of intelligent footballer but also popped up with a few goals.

Let me guess... Liverpool fan?

FatherTed

5starpool wrote: »

Fancies some MLS money obviously.

MLS teams are not in the habit of giving big money to DP Defenders(they prefer to spend their $$$ on midfielders/forwards).

Maybe NYCFC if they have any DP spots left or maybe the new team in Atlanta for 2017.

Danye

Kirby wrote: »

Rio is overrated by the united fans on this forum. Understandable but true nonetheless. He wasn't half the ball playing defender he thought himself to be and relied on his pace more than most. When he lost that pace, and he lost it early due to his back issues, he got exposed constantly and the last few years of his career highlighted this over and over.

Slow defenders like Terry, Carragher, Hyypia were slow from the beginning so they had to develop other aspects of their game. When you don't have the physical ability to bail you out of trouble, you learn to read the game better. They don't have the pace to begin with so as they age, they don't suffer the same decline.

Terry will always be the better defender of the two. The fact that he was a bit of an arse off the field doesn't change that.

I'm a United fan and I agree with this. I'd rather Terry over Rio. The way people describe Rio as a "Footballing centre half" would lead you to believe he ran the pitch and the squared the ball for somebody to tap the ball in the oppositions net. He was no better on the ball than Terry. Rio wasn't aggressive enough either. Very rarely attacked the ball, or threw himself in the way if he needed to. He needed a dominant centre half alongside him to do the dirty work. He relied far too much on his pace.

When the chips where down he went missing.

If an action could sum up Rio for me is when Torres was at Chelsea and he was pathetic and down on his luck. United were playing Chelsea at OT, the game when Torres missed a sitter. Rio came from behind, when the ball was no where near, and tripped / pushed Torress to the ground in front of the Stretford End. He hadn't the bottle to be doing things like that when Torres was at Anfield in front of the Kop ripping us apart! Passed him on to Vidic all the time!

bucketybuck

Danye wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I agree with this. I'd rather Terry over Rio. The way people describe Rio as a "Footballing centre half" would lead you to believe he ran the pitch and the squared the ball for somebody to tap the ball in the oppositions net. He was no better on the ball than Terry. Rio wasn't aggressive enough either. Very rarely attacked the ball, or threw himself in the way if he needed to. He needed a dominant centre half alongside him to do the dirty work. He relied far too much on his pace.

What a ridiculous post. Rio didn't need to throw himself in the way because his reading of the game and positional sense meant that he stopped attacks long before they got to that last ditch sliding tackle shite that the John Terry's of this world have to resort to.

And the quip about Rio going missing is just cringeworthy, who even comes out with this rubbish?

Danye

bucketybuck wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. Rio didn't need to throw himself in the way because his reading of the game and positional sense meant that he stopped attacks long before they got to that last ditch sliding tackle shite that the John Terry's of this world have to resort to.

And the quip about Rio going missing is just cringeworthy, who even comes out with this rubbish?

It's nonsense about Rios reading of the game! Had pace to burn which got him out of trouble.

eagle eye

I'm not a United or Liverpool fan but I'd have Hyypia ahead of Rio. I'd have Vidic and Stam ahead of both of them though.

Terry as I've said earlier is for me the best central defender ever to play in the Premier league.

Oh and I'm not a Chelsea fan either.

jive

Terry has been the best defender in the PL. He may be an absolute shïtehawk but he's been a constant in a team which has consistently won silverware built on defending. Sure they scored plenty of goals (at their peak) but their defensive organisation is where everything was built and that was lead by Terry. He's been exposed this year but so would anyone when the players in front of him have downed tools, it looked like lads at 5 aside who just couldn't be arsed putting in a shift at times for them this season.

peterswellman

Hyypia over Ferdinand, I've read it all now.