Pep Guardiola confirmed as new Man City Manager

jive

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

How?

Porto is the only standout on his CV. And they would be expected to win their domestic title handily at the time as they are the richest club in Portugal.

Chelsea? - bulk of the team built years before he joined. Ranieri teed it up for him the year before he joined by finishing top 4.

Inter? - Mancini teed it up for him the year before he joined. They were already the Champions with a World Class squad.

Real Madrid? Pellegrini teed it up for him with a squad absolutely packed with talent and a pretty much limitless budget.

Chelsea second time? Found him out.

Winning the CL with Porto and Inter were great achievements, regardless of how you try to spin the Inter one. Inter went to the Nou Camp twice in the campaign and won to nil both times, against Pep. Barca had the likes of Henry, Ibra, Yaya and the other usual suspects at that time.

Every Madrid team is teed up for the incoming manager, but it's Madrid and Perez lurking in the background. He did well domestically but failed to win the CL which is a blemish IMO.

He did well at Chelsea up until this year, in a far more competitive environment than Pep has had to deal with thus far. Not saying the PL is better, it isn't, but there is less of a gulf between the teams as the top teams in the PL aren't as good as Bayern or Barca and this has been the case for a while.

Like I said it's great for City because he has an aura about him and players will want to be coached by him, but he doesn't exactly challenge himself with these appointments. He goes from easy job to easy job. Jose's CL wins are far more impressive than Pep's on the basis that I doubt anyone else would have won them with the clubs Jose won them with, whereas there's plenty of managers about who could have won it with that Barca team. Jose won it with limited teams by comparison, Pep did it with the best team.

bucketybuck

HalloweenJack wrote: »

He is easily the top manager around at the moment

This is the common belief regarding Pep but I'm not nearly as convinced as the masses seem to be. I don't necessarily say that he isn't, but his achievements so far do not equate to him automatically being the best.

He won titles with Barcelona and Bayern, fair play to him and he did what he needed to do, but there are a lot of managers win titles with Barca and Bayern. Is Luis Enrique the best manager in the world? Why not, sure he is doing as well with Barca as Guardiola did? And I would bet that if Enrique went to Bayern he would win a title there too, they have the best team by miles so he would struggle not to.

Pep Guardiola was successful, but if say, Manuel Pellegrini was the manager at Barca and Bayern in those periods then I think Pellegrini would have a few titles and european cups as well.

None of this means that Guardiola wasn't influential or successful, but winning titles at Barca and Bayern is the default not some momentous achievement, so he shouldn't get the automatic label of best in the game for achieving what plenty of others could have achieved. Even Van Gaal won the title at Bayern for example and just look at how successful he has been in England.

astonaidan

Korat wrote: »

Who was buying the players when he was at Barcelona?

It's not pretty. A lot of the good players were already there or came through the youth system. Most of the major signings during his time were flops, Ibrahimovic, Sanchez, Fabregas, Hleb, Chygrinski, Kerrison. He offloaded a lot of their big names too.

Maybe City expect him to use their youth team to replace and upgrade the current squad in the same way.

People over hype his intergration of youth players, look at the starting line up for Barca when he was their and you will see alot of the players he "brought" through were already regulars in the squad.
Same again with Munich not one of the players in the squad are Pep players brought through.
At both Bayern and Barca he bought big players, he will do the same again at City.

Rayne Wooney

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

How?

Porto is the only standout on his CV. And they would be expected to win their domestic title handily at the time as they are the richest club in Portugal.

Chelsea? - bulk of the team built years before he joined. Ranieri teed it up for him the year before he joined by finishing top 4.

Inter? - Mancini teed it up for him the year before he joined. They were already the Champions with a World Class squad.

Real Madrid? Pellegrini teed it up for him with a squad absolutely packed with talent and a pretty much limitless budget.

Chelsea second time? Found him out.

Mourinho won a European double with Porto and a treble for inter, for me he is still clear ahead of Pep on the achievement side. The problem is managers don't seem to be able to build on Mourinho's success but in saying that Im not sure Pep would have left those clubs in a better state if he was manager, and if Mourinho had managed Bayern or Barca with the players they have the next manager in would still be winning leagues

astonaidan

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

How?

Porto is the only standout on his CV. And they would be expected to win their domestic title handily at the time as they are the richest club in Portugal.

Chelsea? - bulk of the team built years before he joined. Ranieri teed it up for him the year before he joined by finishing top 4.

Inter? - Mancini teed it up for him the year before he joined. They were already the Champions with a World Class squad.

Real Madrid? Pellegrini teed it up for him with a squad absolutely packed with talent and a pretty much limitless budget.

Chelsea second time? Found him out.

He got Porto to win EL and CL, that is self was a amazing achievenment, belittling it is nonsense.
Teed it up, what sort of nonsense is this, Inter won the treble and Chelsea hadnt won the league in years, once again nonsense, if it was so world class how come Rafa failed horribly a year later.
Real is the same as Bayern and Barca they will always have best squads.
He won the league with Chelsea, wasnt supported in the market this summer when he saw massive weakness
you really are talking a lot of tripe

NukaCola

monkey9 wrote: »

Pellegrini said yesterday that that contract extension was optional on both sides if either party wanted to back out in the summer. Pellegrini said City told him a month ago that they were going to take up the option of ceasing the contract in June of this year.

I don't think City have done anything wrong here. All sides seem to have been kept updated as to what's happening. Guardiola was free on the summer, it'd have been irresponsible of City not to go after him.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

An option to extend was created that both parties had to be happy with. I think sorting that out within six months of its deadline is fair and proper behaviour from an employer. Pellegrini seems to have been made aware that they were in touch with Guardiola also. He was backed in the transfer market and given three years to do his thing. Very reasonable in the modern game.

I thought it was an extension, just to be clear I'm not saying Man City done anything wrong anyway.......

HalloweenJack

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is the common belief regarding Pep but I'm not nearly as convinced as the masses seem to be. I don't necessarily say that he isn't, but his achievements so far do not equate to him automatically being the best.

Arguably, any manager that's ever managed a big team should win the league year in, year out but that just doesn't happen. Even Fergie didn't win the league every single year.

Pep has only failed to win the league one season and that season his side finished 30 points clear of third place and with enough points to win the league in most seasons before or since.

Of all the other managers out there right now, only Mourinho comes close and his record isn't as good. Mourinho's won 8 league titles in 12 full seasons while Pep has five in six and on course for a sixth in seven this year.

I think where Pep's record stands out is on a European level. He's won two Champions Leagues and made the semi-finals every other year. It hasn't clicked for him at Bayern just yet but he's still taken them to the semis twice and been beaten by the eventual champions both years, same as with his Barca spell. This is a guy who knows how to take his team's far in Europe, something which City have struggled to do, despite all their money. Again, I can't think of any other managers with similar records.

That's just looking at his stats. He also one of the most notable proponents of a new footballing philosophy and helped bring the game forward as teams had to adapt to his side's tactics.

I'm not totally enamoured with Pep. He has his favourites, which I'm not fond of, and he seems to be a very stubborn character. I've read about his handling of Zlatan and I was not impressed (though, again, two sides to that story, especially with someone as divisive as Zlatan) and his hissy fit at the Bayern doctors last year was pretty pathetic.

That said, you just can't argue with his record. I'm sure if you compare it to other managers who have managed the big sides over similar time periods, it stands out as one of the best. I actually like Pellegrini and feel he's been a bit hard done by but, again, he hasn't been able to bring the club forward significantly in Europe, the same as Mancini before him. I think they're both good managers, just look at their records, but clearly Pep is a considerable way ahead of both.

LuckyLloyd

HalloweenJack wrote: »

He also one of the most notable proponents of a new footballing philosophy and helped bring the game forward as teams had to adapt to his side's tactics.

Meh, since he started with Barcelona Heynckes, Mourinho, Di Matteo, Ancelotti have all prevailed in the CL with very different approaches. I think people overestimate whatever lasting impact Barcelona / Spain circa 2008 - 2012 will have or have had on the game as a whole.

He has a style that is successful for him, but people reach when they try to extend it out to 'changed the game' territory.

Boskowski

I think the difference between this job and his two previous jobs is that Barcelona and Bayern already were at Champions League winning level whereas City is quite a bit off that still.
So it's a different challenge in that respect and while money will help it's not everything. Right now I'd attest Juventus bigger CL winning potential than City

bucketybuck

Boskowski wrote: »

I think the difference between this job and his two previous jobs is that Barcelona and Bayern already were at Champions League winning level whereas City is quite a bit off that still.
So it's a different challenge in that respect and while money will help it's not everything. Right now I'd attest Juventus bigger CL winning potential than City

City on the field are not on the level of Barca or Bayern yet but the trend with Pep still remains.

City may not be elite, but they are still the richest club with arguably the best squad in the PL, if you had to pick an english club with the best resources to bring you immediate success City would be it. If the goal is taking an english club to success then he has definitely went with the path of least resistance.

I don't blame Pep for making that choice, but he is making that choice.

Boskowski

Biggest money squad yes but doesn't make them the closest English team to a champions league final. At the moment I'd give that to Arsenal I think.

eagle eye

Boskowski wrote: »

I think the difference between this job and his two previous jobs is that Barcelona and Bayern already were at Champions League winning level whereas City is quite a bit off that still.
So it's a different challenge in that respect and while money will help it's not everything. Right now I'd attest Juventus bigger CL winning potential than City

Well last season they went out in the last 16 stage to Barcelona by an aggregate score of 3-1. The same Barcelona then beat PSG over the two legs by a score of 5-1 and then it was 5-3 over Bayern before beating Juventus 3-1 on the final.

You'd have to think they are right up there behind Barca based on those results.

Maximus Alexander

eagle eye wrote: »

Well last season they went out in the last 16 stage to Barcelona by an aggregate score of 3-1. The same Barcelona then beat PSG over the two legs by a score of 5-1 and then it was 5-3 over Bayern before beating Juventus 3-1 on the final.

You'd have to think they are right up there behind Barca based on those results.

Aston Villa beat Crystal Palace 1-0, Crystal Palace beat Southampton 1-0, Southampton beat Arsenal 4-0, Arsenal beat City 2-1.

Villa are the best team in the Premier League.

eagle eye

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Aston Villa beat Crystal Palace 1-0, Crystal Palace beat Southampton 1-0, Southampton beat Arsenal 4-0, Arsenal beat City 2-1.

Villa are the best team in the Premier League.

I was discussing the most consistent teams in Europe. It's a lot different to discussing mid-table teams in the Premier league.

Fact of the matter is Barcelona were on a different level last year and City got as close as anybody to them in the knockout stages of the Champion's league.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So you agree, they won nothing. Of the core group that won the CL 2 years ago, how many did he stick with, how many were moved on, how many were less prominent under Pep?

Messi was always a great talent but taking away Guardiola's role in his development is silly, it is akin to lessening Ferguson's impact on Ronaldo. Same thing applies to Xavi and Iniesta, one of whom was leaving the club, the other not a regular starter. Eto'o was a divisive figure who Pep gave a second chance to, under Pep Henry had his best season in a Barcelona jersey. Villa was always excellent and proved as much at Barcelona but was used in an interesting way by Pep.

Talking to someone today, the comment I got was "if he took over a club like Stoke and won the league then I'd be impressed" this is the comment of someone living 30 years in the past. Due to the financial clout of the few clubs that simple isn't possible anymore. You see the best players at the best clubs. You see the best coaches at the best clubs too, that's modern football and there are very few exceptions. Those knocking Pep and saying Manchester City is the easy way out doesn't understand the magnitude of what Pep hopes to achieve, they don't understand the historical precedent he is looking to set and they are just bashing someone they don't truly know because they fear the unknown.

Only a few clubs are capable of winning anything anymore, most leagues in Europe are un-competitive and therefore I suspect a large amount of people if they ended up managing Barcelona would achieve what Guardiola did simply because it's like being handed an open goal.

Luis Enrique took over Barca in a similar situation to Guardiola and ended up winning the treble in his first year despite not having a very successful career or big reputation beforehand he manged to achieve what Guardiola did with Barca.Nobody would claim Enrique is a genius yet he's achieved what Guardiola has.

What Diego Simeone and Jurgen Klopp achieved with Atlectico and Dortmund what Mourihno did with Porto is way more impressive than anything Guardiola has achieved they moved clubs who were off the top tier to elite clubs in Europe, Guardiola hasn't done something like that yet and until he does something like that it's difficult to truly know how great a manger he actually is.

https://twitter.com/CarrickRole/status/694655261324087296

Boskowski

eagle eye wrote: »

I was discussing the most consistent teams in Europe. It's a lot different to discussing mid-table teams in the Premier league.

Fact of the matter is Barcelona were on a different level last year and City got as close as anybody to them in the knockout stages of the Champion's league.

tResults are one thing but watching the actual matches is another. Bayern won 1:0 his season at home and lost 3:2 away to City, but really City had their arses handed to them by Bayern over the two matches. The first game seemed close enough on paper, but was a Bayern show in reality with City looking like school boys. The last game didn't matter to Bayern, but if it had Bayern could have trounced them, I'm pretty confident of that. The last time they met before that was pretty much the same.

KaiserGunner

eagle eye wrote: »

I was discussing the most consistent teams in Europe. It's a lot different to discussing mid-table teams in the Premier league.

Fact of the matter is Barcelona were on a different level last year and City got as close as anybody to them in the knockout stages of the Champion's league.

The year that Bayern Munich won the champions league, Arsenal got knocked out by Bayern on away goals in the last 16. They got the closest of any team to knocking them out. I really doubt ya would have suggested at that time that Arsenal were right up there with Bayern based on the results.

astonaidan

After todays result, Im really looking forward to all the Pep made them amazing when next season and turned the team around, all while obviously ignoring the fact he will spend probably over 150mill

Would be rather hilarious if city imploded and dropped out of the top 4

Andersonisgod

astonaidan wrote: »

After todays result, Im really looking forward to all the Pep made them amazing when next season and turned the team around, all while obviously ignoring the fact he will spend probably over 150mill

He'll probably have to spend, to what degree we don't know but considering he's going to have to change some key members of a squad that has been together a while.

But i love that you're here trying to play down the task of a team that won nothing last season and are being smashed 3-0 at home by Leicester right now. The bias raises the hair on my arms.

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He'll probably have to spend, to what degree we don't know but considering he's going to have to change some key members of a squad that has been together a while.

But i love that you're here trying to play down the task of a team that won nothing last season and are being smashed 3-0 at home by Leicester right now. The bias raises the hair on my arms.

Ah come on its not as big a task as any other team in England, we both know that. Have you forgotten they won it as recently as 2 years ago and should win at least the LC this year. If they win the league next year anyone who considers it a big achievement is daft. He will be judged in europe, if however they dont win the league, well.......
Not sure what you mean by bias, I dont think Ive ever dissed Pep, Im more realistic about his achievements, infact you could say Im not biased

Andersonisgod

astonaidan wrote: »

Ah come on its not as big a task as any other team in England, we both know that. Have you forgotten they won it as recently as 2 years ago and should win at least the LC this year. If they win the league next year anyone who considers it a big achievement is daft. He will be judged in europe, if however they dont win the league, well.......
Not sure what you mean by bias, I dont think Ive ever dissed Pep, Im more realistic about his achievements, infact you could say Im not biased

What if they don't win the league this season? It's not as though City are at Man Utd levels of winning the league practically every season for a period of time so yes, actually I would consider him winning the league an achievement, as any logical thinking person would. That's not even factoring in the kind of things people talk about in regards other coaches like time to adapt to a new country ect.
Yes he will be challenged with making this City side serious challengers to Barcelona, Bayern Munich ect.it's quite the challenge because this City side are a fair amount off those sides.
Hahaha I know I've got the reputation for most biased poster on here but you're basically the anti-me, every bit as biased in the opposite direction, just slightly less charming.

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What if they don't win the league this season? It's not as though City are at Man Utd levels of winning the league practically every season for a period of time so yes, actually I would consider him winning the league an achievement, as any logical thinking person would. That's not even factoring in the kind of things people talk about in regards other coaches like time to adapt to a new country ect.
Yes he will be challenged with making this City side serious challengers to Barcelona, Bayern Munich ect.it's quite the challenge because this City side are a fair amount off those sides.
Hahaha I know I've got the reputation for most biased poster on here but you're basically the anti-me, every bit as biased in the opposite direction, just slightly less charming.

Id actually never put me in the same context with you in any way tbh, if anti you. I can look at something and see it as it is, you however dont. Im a fan of football you are a fan of supporting the top teams, the thing is I actually know something about football, you know how to blow hot air. Everyone notices how you disappear once a question is put to you that you dont think you can scream back about how much books youve read, videos you watched, you know hmm nonsense. Their is about 100 more posters I can think of the top of my head that know more about football than most but never come across as the tosser you are, so enjoy living with your nonsense if you want.
But if you think winning the league after spending what Pep is going to spend is a achievement well then you show everyone you know nothing, and well when Pep doesnt win the CL again this season, you can continue to spout on about his legacy :pac: in Germany.
I look forward to Pep coming to England because I think hes a top manager, but anytime he wins a game, I wont be all over the City thread going on about his style and then when he loses a game be nowhere to be seen, like a poster we all love to ignore, which my friend is where you have been put

Andersonisgod

astonaidan wrote: »

Id actually never put me in the same context with you in any way tbh, if anti you. I can look at something and see it as it is, you however dont. Im a fan of football you are a fan of supporting the top teams, the thing is I actually know something about football, you know how to blow hot air. Everyone notices how you disappear once a question is put to you that you dont think you can scream back about how much books youve read, videos you watched, you know hmm nonsense. Their is about 100 more posters I can think of the top of my head that know more about football than most but never come across as the tosser you are, so enjoy living with your nonsense if you want.
But if you think winning the league after spending what Pep is going to spend is a achievement well then you show everyone you know nothing, and well when Pep doesnt win the CL again this season, you can continue to spout on about his legacy :pac: in Germany.
I look forward to Pep coming to England because I think hes a top manager, but anytime he wins a game, I wont be all over the City thread going on about his style and then when he loses a game be nowhere to be seen, like a poster we all love to ignore, which my friend is where you have been put

I love comparisons. My opinion is that your understanding of football is basic and often a kind of black and white view which reflects in your comments and opinions, they lack depth and they certainly tend to lack context of the surroundings in which they take place. That isn't a comment in regards your opinion on a singular issue but it is of every issue I've seen you comment upon.
For example, you say Pep winning the league won't be an achievement. How ridiculous is that? You base that opinion on City will spend money next summer, but how much have Man Utd spent under Van Gaal and yet no title? If, as you say, money guarantees success then surely we should be just taking these Man Utd title victories under Van Gaal for granted. Or how about PSG not succeeding in Europe despite their spending? Or Real Madrid assembling the most expensive squad ever yet they trail Barcelona and Atletico Madrid. Money helps but it certainly doesn't guarantee success and any time you win a league it is an achievement, especially a league which has as many challengers and different title winners in recent years as the Premier League, to claim otherwise is silly.
I don't think I avoid any threads, if I'm watching a game I tend to comment on it though sometimes I must pay attention to accounts elsewhere too, eg Twitter.

slingerz

He has some work to do. For all they spent they don't have the spine needed

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I love comparisons. My opinion is that your understanding of football is basic and often a kind of black and white view which reflects in your comments and opinions, they lack depth and they certainly tend to lack context of the surroundings in which they take place. That isn't a comment in regards your opinion on a singular issue but it is of every issue I've seen you comment upon.
For example, you say Pep winning the league won't be an achievement. How ridiculous is that? You base that opinion on City will spend money next summer, but how much have Man Utd spent under Van Gaal and yet no title? If, as you say, money guarantees success then surely we should be just taking these Man Utd title victories under Van Gaal for granted. Or how about PSG not succeeding in Europe despite their spending? Or Real Madrid assembling the most expensive squad ever yet they trail Barcelona and Atletico Madrid. Money helps but it certainly doesn't guarantee success and any time you win a league it is an achievement, especially a league which has as many challengers and different title winners in recent years as the Premier League, to claim otherwise is silly.
I don't think I avoid any threads, if I'm watching a game I tend to comment on it though sometimes I must pay attention to accounts elsewhere too, eg Twitter.

3 different title winners in 10 years.

Really Pellegrini and his players are doing an atrocious job this season.

It's probably been the worst quality premier league this century where any of the champion teams from the last 10 years or so would have easily won this seasons edition.

Money plays a large part in soccer and league standings all across Europe tend to reflect the money a club has.

Andersonisgod

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

3 different title winners in 10 years.

Really Pellegrini and his players are doing an atrocious job this season.

It's probably been the worst quality premier league this century where any of the champion teams from the last 10 years or so would have easily won this seasons edition.

Money plays a large part in soccer and league standings all across Europe tend to reflect the money a club has.

Potentially 4 this season and still you can make a case that the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Leicester (I suppose) are on the up and are challengers to an extent. All the same, the claim often is that this is an extremely competitive league that a number of teams can win. Do you think that winning the English Premier League is an achievement?

I agree with your second paragraph, where once you could justifiably claim 2, maybe even 3 English teams in Europe's top 5, now you can't claim a single one. Pep will be challenged with changing that.

Absolutely it does, however Astonaidan claims that because City will spend money it means that if they win the league it isn't an achievement and that's a ludicrous claim. Money doesn't guarantee success, you must still do it on the pitch and winning this league is always an achievement. Especially when your rivals are also spending massive amounts of money to improve their squads too.

gufc21

gufc21 wrote: »

Pellegrini should finish 5th and tell Pep to piss off and enjoy the europa league next season

Bump :pac:

As this is now a real possibility

NIMAN

Its been confirmed that Pep will still come, even if they don't make the CL.

There had been rumours he had a clause that they MUST get CL football.

LiamoSail

I don't know what would be funnier from a neutral perspective; City ending up in the Europa League when Guadiola rocks up, or City winning the CL this season, and hence Guadiola taking over yet again at a club where he can only be deemed a success if he wins the CL.

brianregan09

I'd love to see him slum it in the europa for a year

Chris_Bradley

The Europa and Pep would be comical next season.

Fingers cross they keep up this collapse.

Andersonisgod

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

GavRedKing

LiamoSail wrote: »

I don't know what would be funnier from a neutral perspective; City ending up in the Europa League when Guadiola rocks up, or City winning the CL this season, and hence Guadiola taking over yet again at a club where he can only be deemed a success if he wins the CL.

Given Citys squad and theyre potential to spend whatever the hell they want, its reasonable to assume that City under Pep will only be truly considered a success if they do go on and compete and ultimately win the UCL.

I cant see City beating PSG, so Pep, either next year or the following year, depending on the next few weeks, has to push City further than those who came before him and on to semi finals and finals.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

Its your fault.

:mad:

Richard Hillman

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

Suspicions is a good word. I also have my suspicions on why he or his teams don't get much love. Loads of suspicions. Suspicions galore.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

I don't think many actually hate him tbh, I certainly don't anyway.

My own thoughts on him are that he has had loaded die handed to him with the two clubs he has managed thus far and that the fawning over him that is evident from many quarters is as yet unearned.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

It's not hate, for the love of Christ.

He's successful. He's only ever managed at superclubs.

We could debate how difficult the jobs were at Barca or Bayern until we're blue in the face, and it doesn't really matter.

The fact is, people want to see him given a really stern challenge. They'd like to see him at a club he has to build.

Whether you like it or not, the perception is he can only manage clubs where the tools are there, and what he has to do is just work with them. He had Messi, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta at Barca. He had treble winners at Bayern. People want to see him struggle.

Yes, if you're at the top of your game, there's no obligation to go to a struggling club, of course not. But I just think people have seen him work at great clubs, and are tired of it. Any adversity that can come his way ahead of taking over at City is going to be welcomed.

It's not hate, or not understanding him, his philosophy or whatever other nonsense.

dfx-

SlickRic wrote: »

It's not hate, or not understanding him, his philosophy or whatever other nonsense.

re his time at Barcelona, it is ignorance of how messed up and dysfunctional Barcelona were in 07/08.

There is also ignorance of how much of a passing team Heynckes' vaunted Bayern actually were in 12/13.

It does matter.

astonaidan

SlickRic wrote: »

It's not hate, for the love of Christ.

He's successful. He's only ever managed at superclubs.

We could debate how difficult the jobs were at Barca or Bayern until we're blue in the face, and it doesn't really matter.

The fact is, people want to see him given a really stern challenge. They'd like to see him at a club he has to build.

Whether you like it or not, the perception is he can only manage clubs where the tools are there, and what he has to do is just work with them. He had Messi, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta at Barca. He had treble winners at Bayern. People want to see him struggle.

Yes, if you're at the top of your game, there's no obligation to go to a struggling club, of course not. But I just think people have seen him work at great clubs, and are tired of it. Any adversity that can come his way ahead of taking over at City is going to be welcomed.

It's not hate, or not understanding him, his philosophy or whatever other nonsense.

Whoa whoa whoa, dont put us all in the same boat. I hate him, have I reasons, no of course not but.........well.........shut up :mad:

SlickRic

dfx- wrote: »

re his time at Barcelona, it is ignorance of how messed up and dysfunctional Barcelona were in 07/08.

There is also ignorance of how much of a passing team Heynckes' vaunted Bayern actually were in 12/13.

It does matter.

He still had 4 of the best players of their generation (and all time) at Barca, and Bayern were already successful before his arrival, whether Pep changed the style or not.

People like to see the best challenged. I'm not saying Barca and Bayern didn't present challenges, but I think people would like to see him in a position where he has to really struggle to get it right.

suffering golfer

SlickRic wrote: »

He still had 4 of the best players of their generation (and all time) at Barca, and Bayern were already successful before his arrival, whether Pep changed the style or not.

People like to see the best challenged. I'm not saying Barca and Bayern didn't present challenges, but I think people would like to see him in a position where he has to really struggle to get it right.

Everyone should be happy now so :mad:

He has a proper challenge on his plate. Squad he is taking over is in need of a major facelift! The squad has not really improved since 2012 with the exception of KDB, so he has an aging squad to replace.

It's will be interesting to see what he will do...

Dirty Dingus McGee

suffering golfer wrote: »

Everyone should be happy now so :mad:

He has a proper challenge on his plate. Squad he is taking over is in need of a major facelift! The squad has not really improved since 2012 with the exception of KDB, so he has an aging squad to replace.

It's will be interesting to see what he will do...

It's not that big a job as he'll have an unlimited budget and his competition have had bad years as well so he won't be starting at a lower base compared to them.

Great management in any sport is managing with limited resources i.e in a salary cap situation or with a smaller team in soccer and he hasn't decided to take on a challenge like that.

Also it's blatantly clear that City's players have given up quite a while ago and also that Pellegrini hasn't don a great job with city either.

NIMAN

Agree.

I think City is a real test for him. Doesn't matter how much money they give him, he has a serious rebuilding job to do to get this team to the level to win the CL.

If he does that, I will have no problem praising him.

Shanotheslayer

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Great management in any sport is managing with limited resources i.e in a salary cap situation or with a smaller team in soccer and he hasn't decided to take on a challenge like that.

Also it's blatantly clear that City's players have given up quite a while ago and also that Pellegrini hasn't don a great job with city either.

Sure he may as well go and manage Accrington Stanley so.


Pretty much every huge club now a days has unlimited funds.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Sure he may as well go and manage Accrington Stanley so.


Pretty much every huge club now a days has unlimited funds.

But other great managers have managed to achieve great success with smaller clubs as well as with bigger clubs.

City only have 2 or 3 competitors and nobody above them so winning the EPL with them isn't a huge achievement for any manager.

Winning the Champions League would be an achievement with them but anything less than that and it's just a par score in my opinion.

suffering golfer

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But other great managers have managed to achieve great success with smaller clubs as well as with bigger clubs.

City only have 2 or 3 competitors and nobody above them so winning the EPL with them isn't a huge achievement for any manager.

Winning the Champions League would be an achievement with them but anything less than that and it's just a par score in my opinion.

That's gotta be one of the more ridiculous things I have read.

Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Bill Shankly are considered great managers, and have not had success or had to prove themselves with smaller clubs.

Winning the EPL is tough, just ask Arsenal and Liverpool.

Contenders for the league every year are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and ourselves (Liverpool and Spurs to a lesser extent). So winning the EPL is tough.

You have very high standards as to what is considered an achievement. As an City fan, I would consider winning a EPL or getting to the SF of the ECL to be an achievement given the intensity of the competition.

Dirty Dingus McGee

suffering golfer wrote: »

That's gotta be one of the more ridiculous things I have read.

Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Bill Shankly are considered great managers, and have not had success or had to prove themselves with smaller clubs.

Winning the EPL is tough, just ask Arsenal and Liverpool.

Contenders for the league every year are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and ourselves (Liverpool and Spurs to a lesser extent). So winning the EPL is tough.

You have very high standards as to what is considered an achievement. As an City fan, I would consider winning a EPL or getting to the SF of the ECL to be an achievement given the intensity of the competition.

The sport was much more equitable and a lot more competitive back then so the bigger clubs didn't have the massive advantages they have now.

Liverpool were in the second division when Bill Shankly took over.Man United had gone 40 years without a league title before Busby won his first title with them.Paisley won 3 European Cups in 5 years. So what they achieved is pretty great despite being with big clubs.

The elite teams in Europe define themselves by success in the champions league I'm pretty sure that is how Guardiola will be judged and solely delivering domestic success won't be considered a complete success for Guardiola.