Pep Guardiola confirmed as new Man City Manager

dfx-

SlickRic wrote: »

He still had 4 of the best players of their generation (and all time) at Barca, and Bayern were already successful before his arrival, whether Pep changed the style or not.

People like to see the best challenged. I'm not saying Barca and Bayern didn't present challenges, but I think people would like to see him in a position where he has to really struggle to get it right.

That's no way of looking at the depth of the decisions he made in summer 08 at Barcelona. The same four players were in the 07/08 team that were a disgrace. It's not as simple as that is it?

He re-energised the club, the discipline, the motivation, the players he threw out, the players he moved up from the B team and how the infighting and frequent skipped training sessions stopped.

Whether you like it or not, the perception is he can only manage yclubs where the tools are there, and what he has to do is just work with them. He had Messi, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta at Barca. He had treble winners at Bayern. People want to see him struggle.

But the perception is wrong and those parroting it are wrong. So what then?

NIMAN

just my opinion, but if Pep doesn't win the CL this year with Bayern, his time there cannot be considered a success.

inforfun

Different times of course but a truly great manager, like Happel was, achieves something with a club that no one before him and no one after him has done or (possibly) will do again.
Happel brought Feyenoord and HSV the EC I, Club Brugge to the final of the EC I.
And The Netherlands (without Van Hanegem and Cruijff) the WC in 1978 if it had been held elsewhere.

So if Guardiola manages to win the CL with a few clubs who never did so before, i ll start rating him higher than i do now.
He probably hasnt lost sleep over the fact i dont give him the god like status some people do, though.

GavRedKing

NIMAN wrote: »

just my opinion, but if Pep doesn't win the CL this year with Bayern, his time there cannot be considered a success.

I'd agree with ya, I'd also not call it a failure though.

The minimum they should expect is to win the domestic league and cup and push to the UCL Semi Final at a minimum.

Chris_Bradley

The dumbest sporting announcement ever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35461090

NIMAN

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

The dumbest sporting announcement ever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35461090

?

LiamoSail

NIMAN wrote: »

just my opinion, but if Pep doesn't win the CL this year with Bayern, his time there cannot be considered a success.

I'd agree, but not winning it doesn't make him a failure either.

Given the quality and nature of the CL being a cup competition, the margin between success and failure is minimal. However, given the calibre of clubs Guadiola has managed and the limited periods he remains at the clubs, these are the margins on which he'll be judged.

Guadiola, much like Mourinho, is a manager that builds a team, rather than a club. Where someone like Ferguson or Wenger's failure in a competition is tapered somewhat by how they've built and progressed their respective clubs, Guadiola, by virtue of the fact he doesn't hang around for the long haul, can't be afforded this luxury.

It's a double edged sword really; he chooses the wealthiest clubs with the best squads and hence greatest chances of success, but he's going to be judged on the finest of margins.

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The hate for Pep on this thread and on this board in general pretty much reflects the English tabloids press feelings for Pep. Why is it like this? I have my suspicions.

Sceptisim or a mistrust of the guy doesn't necessarily equal hate. In fact, to conclude that is probably more of reflection on an English tabloid press-esq attitude than any other exhibited here in relation Guadiola.

Regarding your suspicion, I think there's plenty who also hold a suspicion regarding Guadiola, not just casual football supporters but investigators and testers too

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

Sceptisim or a mistrust of the guy doesn't necessarily equal hate. In fact, to conclude that is probably more of reflection on an English tabloid press-esq attitude than any other exhibited here in relation Guadiola.

Regarding your suspicion, I think there's plenty who also hold a suspicion regarding Guadiola, not just casual football supporters but investigators and testers too

LOL the irony of your first paragraph when it's followed by that 2nd paragraph. Sure I could go through this thread and others and find literally dozens of examples of Pep getting the kind of comments that I've never seen used for any other incoming manager on this board but what's the point, they are plain as day for all to see. Some simply fear progress.

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

LOL the irony of your first paragraph when it's followed by that 2nd paragraph. Sure I could go through this thread and others and find literally dozens of examples of Pep getting the kind of comments that I've never seen used for any other incoming manager on this board but what's the point, they are plain as day for all to see. Some simply fear progress.

People may be sceptical or critical of Guadiola, but I doubt the kind of comments aimed at him are in any way more severe than the likes of Benitez, Moyes or LVG have attracted.

Regarding the second paragraph, it's not conjecture. It's a suspicion based on tangible evidence that is far from baseless. Guadiola did test positive for a banned substance as a player, and was later cleared on appeal. His former club, which achieved a level of fitness never previously seen in the sport, are linked to a court case involving doping that is currently ongoing.

I'm not saying that Guadiola is or was involved in doping; I was simply expanding on your reference to suspicions around Guadiola. You'd have to be extremely naive to dismiss entirely it's likelihood, whether it involves Barcelona or any other top club

derm0j073

Pep has done alright at BM but its been a step down from the way they played under Heynckes .

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

People may be sceptical or critical of Guadiola, but I doubt the kind of comments aimed at him are in any way more severe than the likes of Benitez, Moyes or LVG have attracted.

Regarding the second paragraph, it's not conjecture. It's a suspicion based on tangible evidence that is far from baseless. Guadiola did test positive for a banned substance as a player, and was later cleared on appeal. His former club, which achieved a level of fitness never previously seen in the sport, are linked to a court case involving doping that is currently ongoing.

I'm not saying that Guadiola is or was involved in doping; I was simply expanding on your reference to suspicions around Guadiola. You'd have to be extremely naive to dismiss entirely it's likelihood, whether it involves Barcelona or any other top club

Before Moyes took over at Man Utd, before Benitez at any club, before LVG at Man Utd I don't remember seeing as many or as downright spiteful comments as we've already seen about Pep on here and within tabloid papers in general. Again, I have my opinions on why this is.

I'm sorry but what did it have to do with anything? Literally anything that was being talked about had no relation to that at all. It's the equivalent of speaking about Ferguson's managerial legacy and then going "ye but we gotta remember the Rock of Gibraltar debacle" it's relates to nothing that's being discussed and let's call it what it was, it was a cheap dig, nothing more. I mean why in the name of God have you suddenly started talking about doping when it not only doesn't relate to this discussion but it wasn't even part of the conversation. It's akin to me bringing up what my favourite colour is completely out of the blue (I hope you all enjoyed that.)

grumpymunster

suffering golfer wrote: »

That's gotta be one of the more ridiculous things I have read.

Matt Busby, Bob Paisley and Bill Shankly are considered great managers, and have not had success or had to prove themselves with smaller clubs.

Winning the EPL is tough, just ask Arsenal and Liverpool.

Contenders for the league every year are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and ourselves (Liverpool and Spurs to a lesser extent). So winning the EPL is tough.

You have very high standards as to what is considered an achievement. As an City fan, I would consider winning a EPL or getting to the SF of the ECL to be an achievement given the intensity of the competition.

Whilst I would have little love for United or Liverpool in all fairness Liverpool were a second division side when Shankly took over and United had not won a league for 30 or 40 years when Busby took over at United. Neither inherited a "great" team but both certainly built great teams and even though Shankly never won the European Cup he certainly laid a fantastic foundation for Paisley.
Pep will be a success at City but like us, United, Liverpool and Arsenal City have their problems which may take a season or two to sort out but if he is there for 5 years though I would think he will have a CL in that time.

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Before Moyes took over at Man Utd, before Benitez at any club, before LVG at Man Utd I don't remember seeing as many or as downright spiteful comments as we've already seen about Pep on here and within tabloid papers in general. Again, I have my opinions on why this is.

I'm sorry but what did it have to do with anything? Literally anything that was being talked about had no relation to that at all. It's the equivalent of speaking about Ferguson's managerial legacy and then going "ye but we gotta remember the Rock of Gibraltar debacle" it's relates to nothing that's being discussed and let's call it what it was, it was a cheap dig, nothing more. I mean why in the name of God have you suddenly started talking about doping when it not only doesn't relate to this discussion but it wasn't even part of the conversation. It's akin to me bringing up what my favourite colour is completely out of the blue (I hope you all enjoyed that.)

Look at the abuse Benitez got when he took over Chelsea. Any negativity surrounding Guadiola pales in significance to that. With Guadiola, the reaction is positive, although obviously there is suspicion and dislike of him. With Benitez it was hatred of him.

It was you who first mentioned suspicions regarding Guadiola, I merely expanded on this. You've argued not against the merit of the point, but against the raising of it.

Guadiola is an exceptionally successful manager, but you can't expect everyone to embrace him to the extent you seem to given these suspicions

astonaidan

Jose gets way more hatred than Pep, but i guess he deserves it. The over love of Pep is just nonsense. Hes a great manager in the terms he managed great teams, just like Luis Enrique is a great manager right now. But unless he wins the CL with Bayern hes gets only a passing grade a drop from the previous manager. If at City he doesnt win the CL hes going to get a passing grade, he went to City cause they have the best players and the money to buy any amount of superstars they want. Anyone who thinks Pep cares about bringing you players through, tell me three he has brought through as starters at Munich

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

Look at the abuse Benitez got when he took over Chelsea. Any negativity surrounding Guadiola pales in significance to that. With Guadiola, the reaction is positive, although obviously there is suspicion and dislike of him. With Benitez it was hatred of him.

It was you who first mentioned suspicions regarding Guadiola, I merely expanded on this. You've argued not against the merit of the point, but against the raising of it.

Guadiola is an exceptionally successful manager, but you can't expect everyone to embrace him to the extent you seem to given these suspicions

Hatred from Chelsea fans, if I remember correctly the media opinion of him was largely positive. Not surprising given how he endeared himself to English football culture, his brand of football and because he fits quite nicely into the English football soap opera, he's a character with a history that can translate into column inches.

Suspicions of Guardiola's brand of football and his coaching methods. Suspicions that football is moving on and some are being left behind. We're not talking about his character or morale fibre here.

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Suspicions of Guardiola's brand of football and his coaching methods. Suspicions that football is moving on and some are being left behind. We're not talking about his character or morale fibre here.

Eh? English media was full of praise for his coaching methods but somehow you are overly sensitive and very defensive because someone on internet said some mean things about Pep. It's not even mean, they said it would be funny to see him in Europa. Big deal.

It didn't even take 5 seconds to find 3 recent articles praising Pep.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/bayern-munich/12069738/Pep-Guardiola-Bayern-Munich-training.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/10341601/Bayern-Munichs-style-revolution-has-already-begun-under-Pep-Guardiola.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/12060927/Pep-Guardiola-is-an-innovator-and-lateral-thinker-rewriting-the-coaching-manual.html

LiamoSail

astonaidan wrote: »

Jose gets way more hatred than Pep, but i guess he deserves it.

Deservedly so. He's a nasty, spiteful individual. From the eye gouging, to his comments about Wenger, his handling of the Medic's treating Hazard, to his series of post match sore loser acts, he's a very dislikeable character

LiamoSail

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Hatred from Chelsea fans, if I remember correctly the media opinion of him was largely positive. Not surprising given how he endeared himself to English football culture, his brand of football and because he fits quite nicely into the English football soap opera, he's a character with a history that can translate into column inches.

Suspicions of Guardiola's brand of football and his coaching methods. Suspicions that football is moving on and some are being left behind. We're not talking about his character or morale fibre here.

I seem to remember Benitez getting treated very poorly by the media, particularly around the time of his feud with Ferguson and hence the rest of the LMA. Benitez was reportedly cracking up etc etc

I haven't noticed Guadiola getting much negative media attention in the UK. I don't think the suspicion you refer to of his coaching methods is even a patch on the suspicion Arsene Wenger was under when he arrived. They portrayed him as some mad professor, certainly far worse than Guadiola has been portrayed in the UK

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Hatred from Chelsea fans, if I remember correctly the media opinion of him was largely positive. Not surprising given how he endeared himself to English football culture, his brand of football and because he fits quite nicely into the English football soap opera, he's a character with a history that can translate into column inches.

the English media are not positive about him. you're twisting history to suit your narrative here I'm afraid.

He's one of the most caricatured figures of fun in the history of English football management.

Suspicions of Guardiola's brand of football and his coaching methods. Suspicions that football is moving on and some are being left behind. We're not talking about his character or morale fibre here.

See this is the sort of shít that is completely needless in this discussion. You're basically saying anyone who doesn't think Pep is God is some sort of primitive football fan, beneath the 'educated' ones. It's pathetic.

That's as bad as anyone calling Pep a fraud.

NIMAN

I'm not so sure his style of possession at all costs football will go down that well in England.

English fans don't like passing around for the sake of it, they tend to quite quickly want the ball moved forward.

I know a few guys who hate watchig tika-taka, I'm sure there are plenty of others out there.

inforfun

Guardiola would make the Harlem Globe trotters play possession if it wasnt for the shot clock.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

the English media are not positive about him. you're twisting history to suit your narrative here I'm afraid.

He's one of the most caricatured figures of fun in the history of English football management.



See this is the sort of shít that is completely needless in this discussion. You're basically saying anyone who doesn't think Pep is God is some sort of primitive football fan, beneath the 'educated' ones. It's pathetic.

That's as bad as anyone calling Pep a fraud.

So to review, in your opinion it's grand just to drag random factors into an argument that have absolutely no bearing on the topic or what's been discussed before, and when I do that and someone else calls me out on it, it's the guy who calls me out that gets lambasted? Oh the world in which we live.

Check out Benitez on BT during their coverage of Real Madrid vs Roma and watch them fawn over him. Yes he's a caricatured figure when it suits but he's someone whose been accepted into English football because he doesn't challenge their belief system.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So to review, in your opinion it's grand just to drag random factors into an argument that have absolutely no bearing on the topic or what's been discussed before, and when I do that and someone else calls me out on it, it's the guy who calls me out that gets lambasted? Oh the world in which we live.

Check out Benitez on BT during their coverage of Real Madrid vs Roma and watch them fawn over him. Yes he's a caricatured figure when it suits but he's someone whose been accepted into English football because he doesn't challenge their belief system.

This first part of your post; would you stop playing the victim card. Not everyone who disagrees with you is out to get you.

The second part...again, you're making that up to suit your narrative. You've just thrown out this 'belief system' nonsense like it's fact, when there's not an ounce of proof that's the case. Like, zero.

astonaidan

Honestly, at City I will be very surprised if hes a success, hes never been a fan of media and well hes moving to media heaven. Hes going to a club where granted they have the biggest funds in England they have what 2 world class players (Excluding Kompany for obvious reasons), and when he does fail what will happen is idiots will come out with a load of excuses about it, the same way when he failed in europe his first 2 seasons with Munich. What Im looking forward to is if England win the euros and he somehow gets praised for it. The people who praise Pep to the level he gets are some of the least knowledgeable people, they are the plastic fans who shout and shout while winning but go into hiding when its not going well

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

This first part of your post; would you stop playing the victim card. Not everyone who disagrees with you is out to get you.

The second part...again, you're making that up to suit your narrative. You've just thrown out this 'belief system' nonsense like it's fact, when there's not an ounce of proof that's the case. Like, zero.

Let's go.

"Hatred from Chelsea fans, if I remember correctly the media opinion of him was largely positive. Not surprising given how he endeared himself to English football culture, his brand of football and because he fits quite nicely into the English football soap opera, he's a character with a history that can translate into column inches."

That's the first part of my post. Please point out where I say Pep is God or anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. In fact I'd like to know what part of that paragraph drew the response from you that it did because, best as I can tell, nothing you said in your post even comes close to relating to anything said in my post. The victim card? I'm being falsely interpreted, people are posting things claiming I said them when clearly in that paragraph I have not. It is a lie.

That's my opinion. Isn't this board made up of opinions? Indeed I don't believe that any other poster on this board is told, not asked, to back up each of their opinions with sources and proof. Indeed I believe that, much like Pep, I am held to a higher standard than anybody else on this board. If it's now law that all opinions must be sourced and peer reviewed then so be it but I'd like to see that law apply to everybody and not just AndersonisGod.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Let's go.

"Hatred from Chelsea fans, if I remember correctly the media opinion of him was largely positive. Not surprising given how he endeared himself to English football culture, his brand of football and because he fits quite nicely into the English football soap opera, he's a character with a history that can translate into column inches."

That's the first part of my post. Please point out where I say Pep is God or anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. In fact I'd like to know what part of that paragraph drew the response from you that it did because, best as I can tell, nothing you said in your post even comes close to relating to anything said in my post. The victim card? I'm being falsely interpreted, people are posting things claiming I said them when clearly in that paragraph I have not. It is a lie.

My 'Pep is God' comment was pointed at your general reaction to anyone who questions Pep. You've clearly intimated that those who don't understand him are resisting progress, and are therefore primitive in their thinking.

You then proceed to tell me how you're being attacked for your stance. That is playing the victim card in my book.

Which leads me onto this...

That's my opinion. Isn't this board made up of opinions? Indeed I don't believe that any other poster on this board is told, not asked, to back up each of their opinions with sources and proof. Indeed I believe that, much like Pep, I am held to a higher standard than anybody else on this board. If it's now law that all opinions must be sourced and peer reviewed then so be it but I'd like to see that law apply to everybody and not just AndersonisGod.

Again, you're whingeing that you're being held to a higher standard than anyone else. You're not. Not at all. Not even close.

You're right, these boards are made up of a ton of opinions, and that's what great about it. I've never said it's law to back up your opinions with sources. Not once. I've simply said that your assertion that Rafa is embraced by UK media (which isn't a fact at all), because the English are sympathetic to the way he gets his teams to play, and are scared of the 'progress' represented by the likes of Pep, is nonsense. You have made that up, because your narrative is that Pep is a genius who isn't understood by the common football fan.

The UK media have never been sympathetic to Rafa and have never fawned over him as a grouping - the odd journalist will always be a fan, but he's been ridiculed for years. Also, the idea that he would be embraced because he doesn't challenge their belief system just isn't true. You've made that up. You're entitled to make up your own opinion, but that's all it is; an opinion.

As much as you're allowed to assert your opinion, someone is allowed to call you out on it, especially if there's no proof. You don't have to provide proof, but you can't throw your toys out the pram if someone challenges your argument by saying it's nonsense.

And I do that with absolutely any poster that I discuss/argue with on these boards.

astonaidan

Did I actually see someone compare themselfs to the Pep :pac:
**** it anymore Im constantly comparing myself to Maradonna, I feel people dont take me serious anymore cause I love cocaine :mad:

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

My 'Pep is God' comment was pointed at your general reaction to anyone who questions Pep. You've clearly intimated that those who don't understand him are resisting progress, and are therefore primitive in their thinking.

You then proceed to tell me how you're being attacked for your stance. That is playing the victim card in my book.

Which leads me onto this...



Again, you're whingeing that you're being held to a higher standard than anyone else. You're not. Not at all. Not even close.

You're right, these boards are made up of a ton of opinions, and that's what great about it. I've never said it's law to back up your opinions with sources. Not once. I've simply said that your assertion that Rafa is embraced by UK media (which isn't a fact at all), because the English are sympathetic to the way he gets his teams to play, and are scared of the 'progress' represented by the likes of Pep, is nonsense. You have made that up, because your narrative is that Pep is a genius who isn't understood by the common football fan.

The UK media have never been sympathetic to Rafa and have never fawned over him as a grouping - the odd journalist will always be a fan, but he's been ridiculed for years. Also, the idea that he would be embraced because he doesn't challenge their belief system just isn't true. You've made that up. You're entitled to make up your own opinion, but that's all it is; an opinion.

As much as you're allowed to assert your opinion, someone is allowed to call you out on it, especially if there's no proof. You don't have to provide proof, but you can't throw your toys out the pram if someone challenges your argument by saying it's nonsense.

And I do that with absolutely any poster that I discuss/argue with on these boards.

So what you are really saying there is that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in that first paragraph to justify your response and so instead your post refers to comments I've made weeks, maybe months ago on possibly different threads and you've followed me here to respond to these old comments? That's so strange, I don't recall ever following specific posters around and criticising them for old posts, especially when the point that poster is making does not relate to those old posts.

Where in my post did I state that it is a fact? I want you to point out those words to me otherwise are you giving me permission to search this board for posts that do not contain the words "in my opinion" and allowing me to copy and paste your original message to them? Are you saying that only my posts are opinions masquerading as facts? Because I think you have very carefully selected me quite purposefully to have a go at. Why not attack every poster who posts an opinion without any words to the effect of "in my opinion." Why Andersonisgod?

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

So what you are really saying there is that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in that first paragraph to justify your response and so instead your post refers to comments I've made weeks, maybe months ago on possibly different threads and you've followed me here to respond to these old comments? That's so strange, I don't recall ever following specific posters around and criticising them for old posts, especially when the point that poster is making does not relate to those old posts.

so every single post anyone ever makes is to be read without any consideration for context, or the known beliefs of the poster posting them?

You have spent months defending Pep. You have spent months defending just how incredible he is. I'm pretty sure you've gone so far as to say he's fundamentally changed how we think about football.

you said that people are suspicious of Guardiola and his methods, because basically people who don't adhere to them are being 'left behind'. that is insulting to those who don't rate him for good reason.

there is nobody following you around. Christ on a bike, you're not that interesting that you're being stalked.

Where in my post did I state that it is a fact? I want you to point out those words to me otherwise are you giving me permission to search this board for posts that do not contain the words "in my opinion" and allowing me to copy and paste your original message to them? Are you saying that only my posts are opinions masquerading as facts? Because I think you have very carefully selected me quite purposefully to have a go at. Why not attack every poster who posts an opinion without any words to the effect of "in my opinion." Why Andersonisgod?

you are the most paranoid poster I've ever come across in my life, and maybe the least self aware.

you pontificate about knowing more about football than many people on these boards, yet the minute you don't like something, you ask for a full inquiry seemingly. you're not being followed. you're not being carefully selected. get over yourself.

fúcking hell. the Internet might not be for you.

Bounty Hunter

Who woulda ever guessed a thread about Pep would devolve into an AIG debate...lets not go overboard here lads...

Don't think there really has been that much negativity towards Pep to be honest just a lot of people who woulda loved to see him take a job where if he succeeded he would have in doing so convinced them that he deserves all the accolades his fans give him. Some of those people like the prospect of City messing up so they drop outta CL places because in their eyes that'd mean he would be tested even more than he would be otherwise when he takes over.


Not sure if I fully agree with that myself as if anything it may give him less pressure as he could not deliver the CL in year 1 but would have a top squad, a sh!t tonne of money and less games than competitors (big ones perhaps as he would still have Europa afterall but no doubt would rotate in that) for the Premiership.

Even at City though I think this will be his biggest test yet as it's not like clubs like Man Utd (with Jose most likely) will be low on cash plus Chelsea (Conte), Arsenal, Liverpool (with Klopp putting his mark on the side) and even Spurs/Leicester again will make the league far more competitive than The German or Spanish leagues were when he was there imo.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

so every single post anyone ever makes is to be read without any consideration for context, or the known beliefs of the poster posting them?

You have spent months defending Pep. You have spent months defending just how incredible he is. I'm pretty sure you've gone so far as to say he's fundamentally changed how we think about football.

you said that people are suspicious of Guardiola and his methods, because basically people who don't adhere to them are being 'left behind'. that is insulting to those who don't rate him for good reason.

there is nobody following you around. Christ on a bike, you're not that interesting that you're being stalked.



you are the most paranoid poster I've ever come across in my life, and maybe the least self aware.

you pontificate about knowing more about football than many people on these boards, yet the minute you don't like something, you ask for a full inquiry seemingly. you're not being followed. you're not being carefully selected. get over yourself.

fúcking hell. the Internet might not be for you.

Strange I'm not interesting enough to be followed around yet it's become clear, based on the facts, that that's exactly what you've done. Either quote excerpts from my original first paragraph and relate it back to your post and I'll make an argument against that or just stop. I don't often call people out on this but no, I know I'm in the right here so I'm making an issue of it. Quote me, relate it back to your post or simply stop replying and I'll stop replying and this thread can get back to serving its purpose.

Where did I say that on this thread? Why is it relevant to my original post? Why aren't you having a go at any other poster who doesn't use the term "in my opinion" when stating a football opinion on this board? Check out any thread on this board, check out the Gary Neville Valencia manager thread, the last comment on that is an opinion passed off as fact. Almost every post on this board is the same. But I'm the one being asked for proof by you? I'm the only one who you say tries to pass off opinion as fact? Well my friend that's blatantly incorrect.

Anyway I'm going to leave this thread for now. I've made my point, I've highlighted the hypocrisy of it, I'm proud of how I've conducted myself here.

TheCitizen

astonaidan wrote: »

Honestly, at City I will be very surprised if hes a success, hes never been a fan of media and well hes moving to media heaven. Hes going to a club where granted they have the biggest funds in England they have what 2 world class players (Excluding Kompany for obvious reasons), and when he does fail what will happen is idiots will come out with a load of excuses about it, the same way when he failed in europe his first 2 seasons with Munich.

He's been a very successful coach where ever he's been, more successful at Barca than at Bayern perhaps but he's not finished at Bayern yet and he could hardly be labeled a failure there either even if they don't win the CL this season. I was very impressed with the way they kept plugging away and got back into the tie v Juventus. A lot of teams would've folded, but Bayern kept fighting and this despite the knowledge of him being on the way out of the club.

astonaidan wrote: »

What Im looking forward to is if England win the euros and he somehow gets praised for it. The people who praise Pep to the level he gets are some of the least knowledgeable people, they are the plastic fans who shout and shout while winning but go into hiding when its not going well

I can't figure out which is more ridiculous here, the notion that England might win the Euros or even if they did win it - extremely unlikely - why would he get credit for it? I know you might be angry being a Villa fan right now:pac: but did Pep piss in your cornflakes or something, what are you on about? Very strange post.

bucketybuck

TheCitizen wrote: »

I can't figure out which is more ridiculous here, the notion that England might win the Euros or even if they did win it - extremely unlikely - why would he get credit for it? I know you might be angry being a Villa fan right now:pac: but did Pep piss in your cornflakes or something, what are you on about? Very strange post.

A certain persecuted poster once tried to claim Pep was responsible for Germany winning the world cup, it was inevitable that such drivel would give rise to parody.

astonaidan

TheCitizen wrote: »

He's been a very successful coach where ever he's been, more successful at Barca than at Bayern perhaps but he's not finished at Bayern yet and he could hardly be labeled a failure there either even if they don't win the CL this season. I was very impressed with the way they kept plugging away and got back into the tie v Juventus. A lot of teams would've folded, but Bayern kept fighting and this despite the knowledge of him being on the way out of the club.



I can't figure out which is more ridiculous here, the notion that England might win the Euros or even if they did win it - extremely unlikely - why would he get credit for it? I know you might be angry being a Villa fan right now:pac: but did Pep piss in your cornflakes or something, what are you on about? Very strange post.

Part about England was a joke, you clearly missed a poster crying about how Pep won Germany win the world cup :pac:
I dont dislike Pep at all, I do think hes overrated though, I never said he was a failure, if he doesnt win the CL I think him going their is a pass thats it, he came in when Dortmund were declining and won the league and failed each season in europe so he in three seasons a manager of his supposed ilk should have won it, when you take into the amount he spent and how easy his league run in was. Regarding him being successful at City its where he will show how good he is more than other two clubs, if anything Bayern have took a step backwards with him. Barcelona would have no fear of the current team, under Heynckes they would. I honestly wouldnt rate him as the best manager on what hes achieved as if you look at Barcelona, they are a stronger team now than when he was their

TheCitizen

astonaidan wrote: »

Part about England was a joke, you clearly missed a poster crying about how Pep won Germany win the world cup :pac:
I dont dislike Pep at all, I do think hes overrated though, I never said he was a failure, if he doesnt win the CL I think him going their is a pass thats it, he came in when Dortmund were declining and won the league and failed each season in europe so he in three seasons a manager of his supposed ilk should have won it, when you take into the amount he spent and how easy his league run in was. Regarding him being successful at City its where he will show how good he is more than other two clubs, if anything Bayern have took a step backwards with him. Barcelona would have no fear of the current team, under Heynckes they would. I honestly wouldnt rate him as the best manager on what hes achieved as if you look at Barcelona, they are a stronger team now than when he was their

The reality is he had the pick of whatever club he wanted when he announced he was leaving Bayern. Man U, Man City, Chelsea, they all wanted him. It's gas that he's not "rated" by some on here when he is probably the most sought after manager in world football.

It appears some don't like that he chose City instead of one of the more established powerful EPL sides, like it's any of their business.

astonaidan

TheCitizen wrote: »

The reality is he had the pick of whatever club he wanted when he announced he was leaving Bayern. Man U, Man City, Chelsea, they all wanted him. It's gas that he's not "rated" by some on here when he is probably the most sought after manager in world football.

It appears some don't like that he chose City instead of one of the more established powerful EPL sides, like it's any of their business.

I couldnt care less who he choose tbh, but City have the strongest squad in the league, just because they are underperforming this season doesnt change the fact. Their is no proof that any of those clubs wanted him, hes been signed on to city for a while. Once again, we will see how he does in England as the league isnt cut and dry like hes had previously. Honestly give Mourinho, Blanc, Klopp or Ancellotti the city squad and Id back them to win the league as much as Pep. Id back Jose/Carlo to win the CL over Pep.

LiamoSail

bucketybuck wrote: »

A certain persecuted poster once tried to claim Pep was responsible for Germany winning the world cup, it was inevitable that such drivel would give rise to parody.

I'm open to correction, but iirc he credited Guadiola's influence on the German Bayern players with having a role in their victory rather than claimed he was responsible for it

astonaidan

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but iirc he credited Guadiola's influence on the German Bayern players with having a role in their victory rather than claimed he was responsible for it

Nope, style of play used as well, it was hilarious tbh, good times :pac:

TheCitizen

astonaidan wrote: »

I couldnt care less who he choose tbh, but City have the strongest squad in the league, just because they are underperforming this season doesnt change the fact. Their is no proof that any of those clubs wanted him, hes been signed on to city for a while. Once again, we will see how he does in England as the league isnt cut and dry like hes had previously. Honestly give Mourinho, Blanc, Klopp or Ancellotti the city squad and Id back them to win the league as much as Pep. Id back Jose/Carlo to win the CL over Pep.

Of course there's no proof, those other clubs are hardly going come out and say they wanted him after he rejected them and chose City, but everyone knows though that he had the pick of them all. He is more sought after as a manager than Jos Ancelotti or any of the others. Just because some poster here is ott in his praise of Guardiola doesn't change that.

inforfun

TheCitizen wrote: »

He's been a very successful coach where ever he's been, more successful at Barca than at Bayern perhaps but he's not finished at Bayern yet and he could hardly be labeled a failure there either even if they don't win the CL this season. I was very impressed with the way they kept plugging away and got back into the tie v Juventus. A lot of teams would've folded, but Bayern kept fighting and this despite the knowledge of him being on the way out of the club.

Being Dutch and having been the victim of that very thing with club and country, i am pretty sure that is the German part of Bayern responsible for that and not Guardiola.

You only have defeated Germans when they are in the bus on their way home. No sooner.

CSF

This 'City have the best squad' argument, as if somebody picked the best team on FIFA to give themselves an advantage over their opponent is a weird one.

The things people are referring to or expecting from Guardiola, who actually does them in their career? Who decides that 'nah I've been too successful in my career to date, I need to go somewhere **** instead and make it great, probably for less money than I've been getting in the jobs I've been great at'.

Yes Mourinho came from Porto, yes he did great there, but that was because he had to. Now that his 2nd reign at Chelsea is over he isn't going to decide that Man United isn't big enough a challenge and he's going to restore Villa to past glories instead. Did Ferguson go backwards after United? Shankly after Liverpool? Why would you do it?

Guardiola got to where he is because he showed excellence with the Barcelona B team, got a chance with the first team when they had hit a rough patch, and he took it with open arms.

Guardiola has challenged himself in the logical way, by going to different leagues and different cultures and winning trophies there instead. Man City is obviously the next stage in that plan.

When Guardiola wins trophies with Barca, Bayern and maybe City to come, people assume that they were always going to do this anyway, conveniently ignoring the list of managers that don't do well there. Pellegrini has been poor at City far more often than he has been any use, yet next year people will likely claim Guardiola had it easy if he does to win it.

Some of the arguments are weird to say the least.

GavRedKing

CSF wrote: »

This 'City have the best squad' argument, as if somebody picked the best team on FIFA to give themselves an advantage over their opponent is a weird one.

The things people are referring to or expecting from Guardiola, who actually does them in their career? Who decides that 'nah I've been too successful in my career to date, I need to go somewhere **** instead and make it great, probably for less money than I've been getting in the jobs I've been great at'.

Yes Mourinho came from Porto, yes he did great there, but that was because he had to. Now that his 2nd reign at Chelsea is over he isn't going to decide that Man United isn't big enough a challenge and he's going to restore Villa to past glories instead. Did Ferguson go backwards after United? Shankly after Liverpool? Why would you do it?

Guardiola got to where he is because he showed excellence with the Barcelona B team, got a chance with the first team when they had hit a rough patch, and he took it with open arms.

Guardiola has challenged himself in the logical way, by going to different leagues and different cultures and winning trophies there instead. Man City is obviously the next stage in that plan.

When Guardiola wins trophies with Barca, Bayern and maybe City to come, people assume that they were always going to do this anyway, conveniently ignoring the list of managers that don't do well there. Pellegrini has been poor at City far more often than he has been any use, yet next year people will likely claim Guardiola had it easy if he does to win it.

Some of the arguments are weird to say the least.

TBF, Cits managers arent exactly a whos who of excellent managers. Hughes got 4th and was ousted for Mancini who won the league and never retained it, Pellegrini replaced Mancini to bring them further in Europe we were told and he has, as awell as winning the league and domestic honours.

City have steadily upgraded with their previous managers and theyre set to repalce agood manager with an excellent one. I'm surprised it took them this long to appoint a genuinely top class coach becasue the money and by and large, the squad is there and I believe, a better coach than Mancini and Pellegrini, given what they had to play with would have dominated domestically.

City either couldnt attract a better coach or, more than likely, were playing the waiting game with Pep and pulled out all the stops to get him, fact is any of the clubs in Europe would take him but City was the most attractive, as is his standing, it was always going to be the best clubs available to him because hes earned that right to choose he wants.

It'll be interesting to see next year anyway as theyres likely to be about 7 or 8 very good to excellent managers in the league so it should be very competitive.

CSF

GavRedKing wrote: »

TBF, Cits managers arent exactly a whos who of excellent managers. Hughes got 4th and was ousted for Mancini who won the league and never retained it, Pellegrini replaced Mancini to bring them further in Europe we were told and he has, as awell as winning the league and domestic honours.

City have steadily upgraded with their previous managers and theyre set to repalce agood manager with an excellent one. I'm surprised it took them this long to appoint a genuinely top class coach becasue the money and by and large, the squad is there and I believe, a better coach than Mancini and Pellegrini, given what they had to play with would have dominated domestically.

City either couldnt attract a better coach or, more than likely, were playing the waiting game with Pep and pulled out all the stops to get him, fact is any of the clubs in Europe would take him but City was the most attractive, as is his standing, it was always going to be the best clubs available to him because hes earned that right to choose he wants.

It'll be interesting to see next year anyway as theyres likely to be about 7 or 8 very good to excellent managers in the league so it should be very competitive.

It's a separate argument to the Guardiola one, but I'd argue that Pellegrini at City has been average much more frequently than he has been good.

If Guardiola can turn City into a decent team domestically for more than a year at a time, as well as making them able to compete against good teams in the latter stages of the Champions League, then he'll have broken new ground there.

Boskowski

astonaidan wrote: »

Jose gets way more hatred than Pep, but i guess he deserves it. The over love of Pep is just nonsense. Hes a great manager in the terms he managed great teams, just like Luis Enrique is a great manager right now. But unless he wins the CL with Bayern hes gets only a passing grade a drop from the previous manager. If at City he doesnt win the CL hes going to get a passing grade, he went to City cause they have the best players and the money to buy any amount of superstars they want. Anyone who thinks Pep cares about bringing you players through, tell me three he has brought through as starters at Munich

Vidal, Costa, Coman, Thiago, Kimmich.
I said it elsewhere, he's not bad. To be considered a great Bayern coach you don't necessarily have to win the Champions League. But it helps. He's doing well. I think he won't win the Champions League with Bayern, but I wish he would.

But one thing he really has done is he has brought a few players forward that look promising and will hopefully remain Bayern players for years to come. His style of play requires complete players all through the squad. Complete and above. Bayern are doing pretty well now on that front which can't be a bad thing no matter who the manager. He's leaving a well oiled machine behind, not a lame duck.

Only minus - under his watch they let go of Kroos to replace him with Xabi Alonso (nothing against Alsonso, great player). It's something I'm still struggling to understand. That and that I'm not really a fan of possession for the sake of it and Bayern seem often less effective than under Heynckes.

inforfun

I think he meant youth/young players.

3 of those were bought before the season and i don't think they were bought as squad fillers. Thiago has been there a while as well. Mostly injured.

Which leaves only Kimmich. And i wonder if we would have heard from him this season, bar maybe dead rubbers at the end, if not about every single defender Bayern has is currently on the physio's table

CSF

inforfun wrote: »

I think he meant youth/young players.

3 of those were bought before the season and i don't think they were bought as squad fillers. Thiago has been there a while as well. Mostly injured.

Which leaves only Kimmich. And i wonder if we would have heard from him this season, bar maybe dead rubbers at the end, if not about every single defender Bayern has is currently on the physio's table

You can't blood youth players from your own squad in such a short spell at a club with such high expectations unless they're already there at an extremely high standard. He's shown a willingness to do so at Barca already.

I'm too young to remember the early Fergie years but from my recollection the class of 95 was a long time coming before it came. Youth systems that meet the philosophy of the manager can take a long time coming and usually reap the most benefits when a manager is a long-term project. They don't seem to exist in this generation of football managers at the elite level of football.

Andersonisgod

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but iirc he credited Guadiola's influence on the German Bayern players with having a role in their victory rather than claimed he was responsible for it

Well don't ruin a good myth. I said that his influence on German football (before and after joining the Bundesliga) and his work with the Bayern players was a contributing factor. There was lots of contributing factors. Funnily enough this is one I have proof of in the former of quotes from significant members of the German camp, but clearly some posters on Boards.ie know more than the lads that actually won the World Cup so don't argue with them. People just like to tell lies about Andersonisgod.

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well don't ruin a good myth. I said that his influence on German football (before and after joining the Bundesliga) and his work with the Bayern players was a contributing factor. There was lots of contributing factors. Funnily enough this is one I have proof of in the former of quotes from significant members of the German camp, but clearly some posters on Boards.ie know more than the lads that actually won the World Cup so don't argue with them. People just like to tell lies about Andersonisgod.

This whole complaining about people singling you out while simultaneously constantly referring to yourself in the 3rd person is a bit sad and comes across like you revel in being singled out.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

This whole complaining about people singling you out while simultaneously constantly referring to yourself in the 3rd person is a bit sad and comes across like you revel in being singled out.

The proof is in the pudding. I leave the thread yet still more comments about Andersonisgod, not only comments but lies. I don't want to be misrepresented, so I set that lie straight again. I have no further desire to continue posting on this thread but if a fellow poster blatantly mosquotes you in an effort to insult you then naturally you will respond, that's only fair.